03/01 Frankie AMBG 243; 349 +3

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Dan and Frankie

Member Since 2013
Per recommendation of people on the other boards, I have come over to introduce myself and my newly diagnosed sugar cat (Frankie) and my civie Mollie. We have changed diet from free feed on Dry Nutro Cat Max Indoor, to Friskies Pate 1/2 can each AM and PM ( they were already used to Friskies Pate because I was feeding it as a evening treat). Frankie has been doing well on the diet change and we are currently monitoring to see if insulin is needed. Momma of Muse has been helping me as well as many others on this forum and I am soo grateful for all of you because otherwise Frankie would be gone already because of the Vet's grim diagnosis with little options. I am in possession of all the testing and shooting supplies ATM and am planning to do a BG curve test tonight after PM meal. I am using the Relion Confirm, have lantus in the fridge and a hypo kit consisting of karo and ff with gravy if needed. Check Frankie's SS to see the progress... we have only just started Monday night but I can already see great progress and Frankie is looking, Acting and Eating much better.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Welcome on board Frankie and Dan, glad you are going to start home testing because 314 is high, and you can predict how low and high they can get without home testing. Friskies Pate is a good choice , high in calories but low in carb. I've been using it for Noni for over a month now and she is doing great and like it too.

welcome again and have a nice day.


Aseel & cat Noni
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

asoolty said:
Welcome on board Frankie and Dan, glad you are going to start home testing because 314 is high, and you can predict how low and high they can get without home testing. Friskies Pate is a good choice , high in calories but low in carb. I've been using it for Noni for over a month now and she is doing great and like it too.

welcome again and have a nice day.


Aseel & cat Noni
Click to expand...

Thanks, Yes I started home testing Monday night and have posted her numbers on her SS. Monday morning I was going to take her in to have her euthanized and did a 180 on that and here we are today.... Vet was not very helpful (still haven't gotten a script from them)... I had to acquire lantus by other means.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Wow Dan! You're sure a quick learner!!! :RAHCAT The SS looks great. Paws crossed, the BG's will continue to come down bcatrun_gif
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I'm very glad you got some great advice here and can help Frankie. I've been watching your tale on Health.

Do I understand correctly that the diet change to wet food is very recent? Clearly Frankie's SS numbers indicate diabetes, but those should hopefully improve with a better diet.

So at this point it looks like you have the Lantus and all related supplies, but have not given any insulin yet.
It's scary. But I think you've quickly discovered that you're in the right place.

MJ
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

MJ+Donovan said:
I'm very glad you got some great advice here and can help Frankie. I've been watching your tale on Health.

Do I understand correctly that the diet change to wet food is very recent? Clearly Frankie's SS numbers indicate diabetes, but those should hopefully improve with a better diet.

So at this point it looks like you have the Lantus and all related supplies, but have not given any insulin yet.
It's scary. But I think you've quickly discovered that you're in the right place.

MJ
Click to expand...

Yes, Just Monday Night, her BGs have been improving since.... No insulin yet, monitoring BGs with diet change. Doing a curve tonight.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Dan

Here is Frankies Health Thread and also her Relaxed Condo.

I actually think Frankie needs some insulin. She might not need it for long but her numbers have been pretty flat the last two days. I know you aren't planning to do TR...although the is her best chance to get into remission....but the starting dose for a cat following the TR protocol is .25u/kg of ideal weight. If the cat is underweight, like Frankie, the starting dose is .25u/kg of current weight. I've read both threads above and don't see where anyone asked you what she weighs but have just noted an arbitrary number suggested as a starting dose.

Following a TR protocol does not require a lot of testing. We have several members who work away from the home but do TR. we usually ask you get a PS test every cycle, and depending on what she is doing BG wise, at least a +2 and mid cycle test during the day and a before bed test at night. Many of us test more but for varying reasons.

Normal numbers for a cat on a human glucometer are 50-120. So Frankie is nowhere near that. I actually think you should be checking ketones every single day that she is not on insulin even though she had a convenia shot. I don't recall why she was given that shot but it is specific for skin infections so if she were to have something going on other than that, she could develop ketones. All it takes to develop diabetic ketoacidosis is not enough insulin coupled with infection and not enough food/water.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Welcome to Lantus Land!

I skimmed over your two (long) threads on the other Boards. Like Marje, I don't think Frankie's numbers are looking like she's going to respond to a diet change only. For a cat that is responding to low carb food, Frankie's numbers would be lower and you might begin to see that numbers go down several hours after a meal rather than go up, the way that Frankie's numbers rise. The other issue is that the longer Frankie stays in high numbers, the more her body begins to treat these numbers as her new "normal." When this happens (the phenomenon is called glucose toxicity), it's harder to get those high numbers to come down. I think it's time to break out the insulin and get your girl started on this sugar dance.

If the vet gave Convenia because of an infection, not getting Frankie started on insulin could be a set-up for ketones developing. If you were concerned about costs, getting a cat through diabetic ketoacidosis can break the bank. (When Gabby was diagnosed, she was rather ill and the 3 days at the vet ICU cost $3000.) Getting frequent ketone tests is the best bit of prevention you can invest in. As Marje pointed out, insulin is one way that you can also keep ketones at bay.

It sounds like you are trying to decide if Tight Regulation is feasible for you and Frankie. What I would point out is that this approach to dosing has an enviable track record of getting newly diagnosed cats into remission. It is one of the few dosing protocols that has published veterinary research to support its use. From starting dose to how you adjust doses are laid out in a systematic manner so you always have a resource to help you with your dosing decisions. Of course, there are also a large number of people here who will be ready and willing to lend you a hand pretty much on a 24/7 basis. This is a busy board and there is almost always someone around if you have a question.

Please let us know how we can help.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Just read the two preceding posts. I want to do what is best for Frankie.... Her weight on Saturday was 4.9lbs. I am pretty sure she has gained since just based on how she feels when I pick her up, but I do not have an accurate scale to weigh her right now. I have insulin, but it is getting late and I need to get to bed soon because I have a full day tomorrow. I am home all day tomorrow so a dose then is feasible, but defiantly not now. I just want to make sure that I can be around to monitor her all day... if it is not tomorrow then Monday is the next best day.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Dan and Frankie said:
at least a +2 and mid cycle test during the day and a before bed test at night.
Click to expand...

There in lies the problem. If I AMPS at 6, +2 is 8, when I am taking my Son to School and heading out for inspections, if I have scheduled. 7 and +2 is worse and AMPS at 5am is impossible. How can this be managed?
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

If she weighs 5.0 or 5.5 lbs now, using the formula I discussed, her starting dose would be .5u bid.

There is nothing set in stone that you have to get a +2 test. It's a good test to get because it will usually give you an idea of what the cycle will look like. A typical lantus cycle looks like this:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
Click to expand...

If the +2 is much higher than the PS, it's likely to be a quiet cycle; if its similar, you should expect a typical (active) lantus cycle where the numbers come down to nadir; if its much less, you should expect a very active cycle with an early drop in numbers.

There are members in TR that cannot get the +2 test. We work with you to help you figure out the tests to get given your schedule.

I'm not sure where this thought came from that we test alot more in LL than Relaxed. Some people don't test much in LL, others test more. It really depends on the persons schedule and their cat.

If it were me, because of glucose toxicity, I'd start insulin sooner rather than later.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

This forum really needs to hook up with tapatalk.... as fast moving as it is, it would be of benefit to everyone, especially considering the urgency factors.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

There are usually enough people around this forum at different times of the day to handle any emergencies and several of us are keeping an eye out most of the time.

If I'm watching a condo, I can subscribe to it and it sends me a message as soon as someone posts on it. I've also got the forum on my iPhone and can check in at any time...others do the same. It's very rare for anyone who needs help in an emergency to wait for someone to help them.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I just wanted to make sure everyone making recommendations here are considering the covenia shot on 2/23 (Saturday) I believe it was given due to the urine in the blood... UTI... she was in high range on the 1st indicator of the BUN and normal on the second indicator... which the vet said it meant she was dehydrated... not that she had renal failure, which would have read high on both indicators. I have Ketostix if I should test, I need some recommendations on how... I have two kitties and two litter boxes, one upstairs and one downstairs.... I use arm and hammer litter what would be the best way to get a test on Frankie?

Next step... I need to poke myself with this Relion because I've consumed enough oreos and Michelob ultra to put down a camel. :shock:
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Yes..we are aware of the convenia shot. Blood in the urine in and of itself does not mean the cat has a UTI. Unless the vet did a culture and sensitivity on the urine after doing cystocentesis instead of free catch, then he's shooting in the dark on the dx. More often than not, a cat with blood in its urine has sterile cystitis and no infection. While FDs are more prone to actual UTIs, you still need to have cysto and a c&s done to confirm bacteria are present.

Convenia is not the best A/B for UTIs. It's just convenient.

Several cats in this forum are on A/Bs at any given time. If numbers start to come down, because you test, then you can reduce the dose as needed.

Yes..you should be testing her for ketones. Some people just slip the strip under the cat as it squats, some use a long handled spoon (like the big plastic spoons for pot stirring) under the kitty's bum as it squats. I use aluminum foil shaped into little trays and as Gracie squats, I slip it under her bottom. Dip the colored end of the stick in urine, wait exactly 15 seconds, compare it to the chart.

:lol: :lol: :lol: on the Oreos and beer. We can all relate. :-D
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Marje and Gracie said:
I've also got the forum on my iPhone and can check in at any time...others do the same.
Click to expand...
This is what I'm talking about....Although I have a Galaxy SIII Is it a specific app? or do you just use a web portal?
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Marje and Gracie said:
Yes..you should be testing her for ketones. Some people just slip the strip under the cat as it squats, some use a long handled spoon (like the big plastic spoons for pot stirring) under the kitty's bum as it squats. I use aluminum foil shaped into little trays and as Gracie squats, I slip it under her bottom. Dip the colored end of the stick in urine, wait exactly 15 seconds, compare it to the chart.
Click to expand...

How do you catch her when she squats?.... I need laser beams in the laundry room... :-|
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

My iPhone allows me to just add a website onto my home screen. My droid did, too.

When I want to check Gracies ketones, I take her first thing in the morning and put her in the LB. as she squats, I catch it. If I miss her, I usually see her heading into the laundry room at some point and get it.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Marje and Gracie said:
My iPhone allows me to just add a website onto my home screen. My droid did, too.

When I want to check Gracies ketones, I take her first thing in the morning and put her in the LB. as she squats, I catch it. If I miss her, I usually see her heading into the laundry room at some point and get it.
Click to expand...

Wow... stick em in the LB and they go what a concept..... that one flew way over my head... damn its late @-)
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

I keep Kismet's LB in our bathroom, and he is all about communal toileting, so I am usually able to catch a sample first thing in the morning or at some point throughout the day. I use a regular soup spoon, but I have to wait for him to actually start his stream because once he starts, he won't stop, so I can stick in under him quickly to catch a sample.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

272... so probably start dose tomorrow morning 6 am? Oie 5:30 is not looking good... See you all in the morning ~O)
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Dyana and Sienne are usually up early. Good luck! I'll check in later tomorrow.

Good night.
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

She tested at 243 this morning. I know that it looks like she has flattened out. I am still seeing improvement in her physical attributes. I have again decided to wait until Monday to shoot because I am afraid that toady may be a non event day while the Lantus Depots... If that happens then the active cycle may be on Saturday or Sunday which I will not be able to monitor closely. If I take the weekend and get all my fieldwork and family commitments done, I will be home most of the 1st part of next week and then I will be able to monitor if the is active right away, or depots and has an active cycle the next day or two. I think this is better for both mine and Frankie's stress levels too. The improvements I have seen are 180 from where she was and I don't think 2 days of her getting used to the new diet and testing (routine) are going to hurt one bit. Thanks and I will keep everyone updated on her numbers as I will continue to test as I have been (before and +2 to +3 after meals)
 
Re: 03/01 Frankie AMBG 243

Starting when you have the ability to monitor makes sense. Please do get ketone tests though, especially if you're not starting insulin right away.
 
Re: 03/01 Frankie AMBG 243

Hi guys, just wanted to drop in and say welcome! I checked our Frankies SS and I think those yellows are looking awesome compared to some of the other colors up there! have a great weekend guys!
 
Re: 02/28 Frankie AMBG 314

Marje and Gracie said:
Following a TR protocol does not require a lot of testing. We have several members who work away from the home but do TR. we usually ask you get a PS test every cycle, and depending on what she is doing BG wise, at least a +2 and mid cycle test during the day and a before bed test at night.
Click to expand...
For another example, I work away from home and am usually gone at least 10 hours a day. My test schedule with Lucy was AMPS, PMPS, then I would get whatever tests I could at night. Usually +2 and a bedtime test at least. If she was dropping lower, which Lucy did often, then I tested more at night. Every now and then I was able to go home at lunch to get a test, but otherwise I almost never got daytime tests during the week.

Then I did more tests on the weekend when I could. I would do a curve if I was home most of the day. If I wasn't going to be home much on a weekend day, I would do the PS tests, maybe a +2 before I head out the door to do errands, then grab a test when I got home from the errands, one before heading out for dinner, whatever. The tests don't have to be at specific times, but if you can gradually start getting tests at different times of day/night then as time goes on you will find that you are filling in enough blanks to understand Frankie's patterns.

Jazzy's patterns were a lot more predictable than Lucy's, so I was able to test less with her.
 
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