02.22.17 Chase AMPS @ +11.5 193, Shot at 6:30, +1 194,, +2 196, +3 183, PMPS 213, +2 163, +4 123

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Doodles & Karen said:
Good job with he linking , it works great. .1 sounds good. Have a good day Sandi.
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Thank you. Because we got behind schedule yesterday by 30 minutes, and because of work, I had to shoot him 30 minutes early, today. I know that's not ideal, and I think I should do something a little different, but I've been fighting a migraine (left from last night).

I tested, shot and fed Chase (1/2 can of MC) all within 5 minutes of 6:30. I will test again at +1 and +2. I didn't give him all of his food, in case he dives.
 
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Poor Chase. With the way I've been spoon feeding him and people worrying that he will eat too much early on, with low numbers, I think he didn't get fed enough last night. :( This has been a LOT, and with my job being what it is... I'm just spread so thin. I know... I know.... everyone else has gone through this, too. But last night I was in tears, because I just feel like I can't remember to do it ALL right. Having to feed him different types of foods... that is tripping me up. I would prefer to feed him MC, right now, until he gets more on track, unless it is obvious that MC is having a bad effect on him. Yesterday, when I thought I should be giving him LC, I was supposed to give him MC. And when I thought it was ok to give him MC, I was supposed to give him LC. Seems like I'm just not getting the numbers and how to feed according to them, with the exception of the HC gravy. I KNOW when to give him that. It's the food "spikes" that I really need help with, monitoring. I would just like to say that I would like to plan on making MC his main food right now, but if I need to go to LC because of something with his numbers, I would like to ask for help in choosing what I feed him. I'm not as worried about the amount, as I am the type. Like I said... he LOVES to eat. And is always crying for more. He's always been that way.
 
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Sorry it is so confusing and overwhelming. It makes it harder when you have to work and can't monitor him.

Personally I'd be feeding him a regular meal of LC at shot time and leaving out LC or MC while you're gone depending on what his numbers are doing..."is he flat, was there a big drop etc." I think you're pretty smart are gaining the knowledge of how to feed/ what to feed Chase. If the +1 or +2 warrants MC because he gives you a big drop then give him some more food to keep him surfing. You know Chase and has foodie habits. Having a good eater is wonderful.

There is no "right or wrong with Feline Diabetes....Chase is in charge, you are do the best you can to follow his lead and safety is always first.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Sorry it is so confusing and overwhelming. It makes it harder when you have to work and can't monitor him.

Personally I'd be feeding him a regular meal of LC at shot time and leaving out LC or MC while you're gone depending on what his numbers are doing..."is he flat, was there a big drop etc." I think you're pretty smart are gaining the knowledge of how to feed/ what to feed Chase. If the +1 or +2 warrants MC because he gives you a big drop then give him some more food to keep him surfing. You know Chase and has foodie habits. Having a good eater is wonderful.

There is no "right or wrong with Feline Diabetes....Chase is in charge, you are do the best you can to follow his lead and safety is always first.
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Thank you, Karen. His numbers have been dropping after insuin, and I guess that's why the MC. But... if they don't drop enough, I guess I'm supposed to do LC. It's when to decide that baffles me.

Thank you for your encouragement. I'm feeling quite overwhelmed this morning because I don't feel good. :(
 
At +1 His BG is only up 1 point to 194. I'm giving him 1/2 can of LC. Chase eats 4 cans of FF a day, so I try to do 1/2 a can right after AMPS and 1st dose, 1/2 can at +1, 1/2 can at +2, hope to get a +3 before heading out the door. At that time, I will have to decided if I leave the rest of the food down, being LC or MC. This morning, unless he dives (which he usually does) I think it would be safe to assume that I should leave down LC, when I leave. It's knowing the significance in the change of numbers that still evades me. :banghead:
 
I just fed him 1/2 can LC. Let's see what he does at +2.

Isn't +2 very telling? I mean, by then the Lantus is taking effect? And he's had either LC or MC food, according to the numbers. I keep making what I think are educated guesses and have been right some of the time, and wrong some of the time. :(
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
Isn't +2 very telling? I mean, by then the Lantus is taking effect? And he's had either LC or MC food, according to the numbers. I keep making what I think are educated guesses and have been right some of the time, and wrong some of the time
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Yes the +2 is usually a good indicator. Please, none of us are right all the time...they are cats and insulin is a hormone not a drug. You're doing better than you think.
 
I just went back and looked at his SS. He was very close to being in the yellow @ AMPS. I probably should have given him LC. the good news is... I only gave him 1/2 a can of MC. After this last test, I gave him LC. The +2 will be very telling, I think. His numbers has been in the blue since yesterday. Is it right to hope that they stay there, until he at least flattens out? Or is the goal, head on, to get him into the green? I'm happy to see that his numbers aren't jumping between ranges. Then again, I don't understand the significance of the food spikes. That may take me quite some time. It's easier for me to look at the color ranges and try to at least keep him in the same one. Am I right in assuming that's a good first goal>
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Yes the +2 is usually a good indicator. Please, none of us are right all the time...they are cats and insulin is a hormone not a drug. You're doing better than you think.
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Thank you, Karen. Unfortunately, my self confidence has never been good... hardly ever in my 51 years. That's why I rely so much on the opinion and guidance of others. I NEVER blame anyone for helping me make a decision, should the outcome not be the best. I'm just grateful that everyone here is so nice and so understanding. I can be such a pain in the butt... asking over and over and over again. Even when people write it out, that doesn't always make it make sense. It helps... and is crucial for my learning. But repetition is what this girl needs in order for something to stick.... and LOTS of it. Thank God for this group. :)
 
Hi there Sandi, just wanted to say you are doing much better than you give yourself credit for.

With the food, it's really about learning how chase responds.
Something that might help you with that, well it helped me when I was learning, is to make notes on what I fed and when, I made those notes on the comments, I kept those notes in the ss, you could record them in the remarks section. Often when George was diving and I was feeding, I would record it on a notepad as I fed, then when things calmed down I would pop the info on the ss, where I could easily and quickly refer to them when needed. It also meant that others that were helping me at the time could see what I had done and what worked and what didn't.

George is also a very good eater, a little to good, so I didn't need to worry about him not eating, I would usually feed him his usual meals and on days he dropped, if he needed it he would just get extra, with more carbs in it if his numbers looked like it needed it.
 
So at +2 Chase is at 196. Gosh... I hope he doesn't go into the yellow. That will break his blue streak.

Maybe I should have fed him LC to start. I'm going to give him 1/2 can of LC right now, and that will allow me to leave out a half can when I leave at 9:30. Will have to see what his +3 is but that's the best I'll be able to do. Will have to run out the door right afterwards.
 
Gill & George said:
Hi there Sandi, just wanted to say you are doing much better than you give yourself credit for.

With the food, it's really about learning how chase responds.
Something that might help you with that, well it helped me when I was learning, is to make notes on what I fed and when, I made those notes on the comments, I kept those notes in the ss, you could record them in the remarks section. Often when George was diving and I was feeding, I would record it on a notepad as I fed, then when things calmed down I would pop the info on the ss, where I could easily and quickly refer to them when needed. It also meant that others that were helping me at the time could see what I had done and what worked and what didn't.

George is also a very good eater, a little to good, so I didn't need to worry about him not eating, I would usually feed him his usual meals and on days he dropped, if he needed it he would just get extra, with more carbs in it if his numbers looked like it needed it.
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Great idea, Gil. I just made notes for today, so far. I wasn't even thinking about using that section on the SS. :)

So he doesn't appear to be moving much. Is that good or bad, being that he's very close to the yellow. I SO hope I won't be advised to change his dose back to .25u. Maybe if he only gets LC, that will take him down a bit. Then again, this has not been very predictable yet. Unless you guys can tell me what you think of his SS.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Pretty sure that's how most of us learn. There is a lot to learn with this so keep asking. Over time you confidence will build. This group has saved Doodles and me too!
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This group has definitely saved us, too. The vet I had taken Chase to twice, and who was advising me, could have killed him with the amount of insulin she prescribed, and the fact that she didn't think testing needed to be done often. Aye aye aye. :(
 
That's good that he is still flat at +2.

Because the number is about the same as amps it would usually indicate an active cycle(but not crazy because he hasn't dropped like a stone at +2)

So that means that his BG will probably, gently slide down during the day and then come up, giving you a nice curve.
If I had to guess I would think his numbers will head gently down today.


He seems to be in safe numbers and i think your plan for feeding is a good one.
 
Just wanted to add that if for some reason chase decides to be a cheeky monkey at +3 and throw you a curveball(ie he drops a lot) then instead of giving him LC at that point give him some MC or HC.

I'll try to be around for when you get that ps, have some errands to run, but hopefully will be back before you get +3.
 
Gill & George said:
Just wanted to add that if for some reason chase decides to be a cheeky monkey at +3 and throw you a curveball(ie he drops a lot) then instead of giving him LC at that point give him some MC or HC.

I'll try to be around for when you get that ps, have some errands to run, but hopefully will be back before you get +3.
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Yes... if he were to drop, the next meal would be MC. I'm just not sure when a "drop" warrants HC. Marje probably told me, but I can't remember. How many points, in one hour, is too much of drop and warrants HC?
 
Sandi

I put this info last night on the 2/21 condo to explain the food questions you've been having but I was having board issues and it didn't post. It saved and posted this morning but I'm going to put it here.

But first, remember that the MC feeding was an experiment so we could see if we could flatten him out. It wasn't meant to continue. Once we had him flatter, like now, we would switch to LC. I also wanted to give the depot some time to drain. The experiment was to try and find a way to feed and allow you to leave for work and not worry he would drop.

Here is the post from last night:

Let me see if I can explain this a little better.

Insulin is not a drug....it's a hormone so that means we are potentially going to get a little different reaction each cycle. It's not only that it's hormone but it's also that absorption can vary up to 50% from cycle to cycle, the syringes are inaccurate, and you are trying to be consistent with a very small dose.

Our goal was to get him to stop dropping from mid blue/yellow to green in a couple hours. This is called managing the curve with food. The goal with managing the curve with food is to stop fast drops and keep numbers from going too low.

In managing the curve with food, we feed the normal total portion of food over several hours to slow the drop and raise the nadir so we get a flatter cycle. Sometimes when we do this, we, eventually, need to raise the dose a bit to get the entire curve to come a little lower. It's something we will have to talk about if Chase stays in blue numbers. We usually manage the curve with the kitty's normal, LC food but sometimes we have to be flexible and that's what we've tried to do with Chase to keep him safe while you work.

We've seen the MC has worked really well to slow the drops and flatten Chase's curves. What I would suggest, and what I think Gill suggested, is that you keep really good notes in the Remarks section of the SS indicating what, how much, and when you fed food. Then you can see what worked and what didn't. If you look on Gracie's SS, you'll see we kept really detailed notes on how we fed her because managing the curve with food is an art as much as science.

We can give you ideas and thoughts but it really comes down to you learning about Chase's reaction to insulin and food. Look at his SS and see if you can identify when his insulin onsets, when is the lowest point of the cycle (or the peak caution) we call the nadir; how much duration does he get from his shots? These are things you should study and when we ask, you should know. There might be a time when his feeding schedule needs to change so its really important you have a feel for it.

Please let me know if you have questions. :bighug:

And I will add this today that if you think about the "normal" action of the insulin, it might help on how to feed him:
AMPS: insulin should be waning from previous shot
+1: hopefully we see a food spike as you will have fed breakfast and insulin has waned
+2: insulin onsets and numbers drop
+3: insulin continues to work and numbers drop until nadir and then start to rise

I'm just putting those first times because that is what is most critical for you in determining what to feed in the mornings and before you leave.

Now think about what you have learned with our experiment: Chase responds well to MC food. The next step is for you to learn what his patterns might mean and how to put his patterns in line with feeding and get all his food in him.

Many members determine how many calories kitty needs and then they divide the portions up into a set number of feedings. You can do this with Chase. If he gets four cans of Fancy Feast, start by giving him 1/4 can at AMPS, 1/4 at +1, 1/4 at +2, and leave 1/4 out. You might and likely will have to adjust this at some time.

The ultimate goal in managing the curve with food can be summarized below:

Manage the curve with food ----> flatten the curve ------> adjust the dose (if necessary)

Does that help?
 
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Doodles & Karen said:
No, you can skip the +1. You're home and he's a wee higher tonight. ;) What time would you normally give him the rest of his food?
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Well the past few nights I have spreading it out over the glucose checks, because he was lower and we didn't want to take a chance on him not eating, should he need to in a jiffy. Now I don't know how to feed him. :)
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
Well the past few nights I have spreading it out over the glucose checks, because he was lower and we didn't want to take a chance on him not eating, should he need to in a jiffy. Now I don't know how to feed him. :)
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Hmmm. If it were me I'd probably put the food down around the same time you do when leaving the house in the morning. Maybe after your +2 test? Just a thought. I like to try and feed the same way during the day and night for consistency unless you need to "feed the curve" like you have been. What do you think?
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Hmmm. If it were me I'd probably put the food down around the same time you do when leaving the house in the morning. Maybe after your +2 test? Just a thought. I like to try and feed the same way during the day and night for consistency unless you need to "feed the curve" like you have been. What do you think?
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Well... he's not gobbling it like he was the MC. He doesn't care as much for the LC. Unless I run it through the Nutribullet.
 
Oh... I didn't know I was gonna need to test him at +4. I took my evening meds that make me very sleepy. :( I'll try.

Sweet dreams, Karen. :)
Doodles & Karen said:
It's a good drop. Can you test him at +4 and good to give him food. I usually go to sleep about 10pm. Will you be ok? There are others who watch the board. Keep your title updated.
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Doodles & Karen said:
It's a good drop. Can you test him at +4 and good to give him food. I usually go to sleep about 10pm. Will you be ok? There are others who watch the board. Keep your title updated.
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Yes. I'll be ok. Thank you so much. Sweet dreams!
 
Sorry I wasn't up yet, that looks like a nice cycle.
Did you go to bed?
I think he will be fine, but for future reference, as he was still dropping at +4, and if I needed to go to bed, I would have perhaps given him an extra bit of food, LC, because his numbers are nice and safe and he's already approaching the halfway mark in his cycle.
The extra Low carb would be as a precaution to try and have him level out.
I'll watch for you in the morning.
 
Hi Gil. Yes... I fell asleep in my chair, as I often do. When I woke up I did a test. And yes... I gave him some food at that time... I think. :( That's what happens when I fall asleep and then wake up. Getting ready for the AMPS. Hoping for a blue number. Come onnnnnn blue. LOL
 
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