02/14 Cleo AMPS=348 +2=350 +4=403 +6=419 +8 381 +10 335 PMPS=341 inverted curve advice needed please

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Delia

Delia

Member Since 2014
Previous condo
02/12 Recap
AMPS 403
PMPS 313
+3 351
+5.5 340

02/13 Recap
AMPS 349
+1 403
PMPS 337
+2 383
+4 403
+8 377

Good Morning!
Cleo tonight was very very purry, she came to bed at 1.00 o'clock and she purred for a long time.
This morning she woke me up as she usually did.

Yesterday I bought a new vial of insulin and I used it from yesterday's PM shot. It seems that nothing changes with new insulin, but maybe this requires a while.

I'm used to track Cleo's bg on a graph. In your opinion, what do these curves mean? Which points in the graph are nadirs?

image (2).png


Marilyn, thank you for your finger crossed. I really hope that the new insulin could bring numbers down.
@Tiger and Ruth, sorry for the late reply. Cleo seems like she is OK. She didn't vomit anymore and 5 P's are all present. She only seems a little weak: she wants to play but she gets tired quickly.

Cleo wishes you a happy Valentine's day :)
IMG_20150131_203230.jpg


Have a good day!!!:D:D:D:D:D
 
I'm doing a curve today and it's an inverse curve. I read in this forum that it may be due to too much insulin? Is it true?
Cleo doesn't have infection, doesn't seem to be sick, but since I gave her more insulin, her number became worst.
This are the values of am curve of today:
AMPS 348
+2 350
+4 403
+6 419
+8 381
+10 335

This is how it looks like:
image (3).png

This is not the first time that I've this kind of curve. See yesterday curve. I fed her at amps, +1, +3, +4, +5 only 25g of low carbs canned food (under 3%).
Do you think I can restart the protocol from the beginning and see what happens? Cleo's weight is only 3,5 kg. She is a little kitty and her normal weight is 4 kg.

Next shot is in two hours, please tell me what to do. I can monitor her only in the weekend (and during the night of course).

Thank you very much.
 
Hi Delia.

What a great picture of your "heart" kitty. I love it.

I wish more than anything that I were experienced enough, wise enough, knowledgeable enough to help with your question. I know you've got a time bind before the next shot. But I just can't help.

I can, though, bump this up so someone more experienced, more wise, and more knowledgeable might see it.

Although, here it's late morning on Saturday. Board isn't quite so busy.

Fingers still crossed.

Marilyn and Polly
 
Thank you Marilyn, your help is always very important for me even if you can only cross your fingers. Thanks a lot!
 
Happy Valentine's Day Delia. Cleo looks very cute in her heart box. Please give her some scritches from me. I'm sorry she's so fond of pink.

Inverse curves can also mean too little insulin. And her numbers were fairly flat, mostly within 20% difference. You've been at 2.5 longer than the protocol called for. I know you were waiting to see if the new vial made a difference. Since it's the weekend, it's a good time for an increase.

We use the size of the cat to determine a starting dose, but after that, the dose is based on what the cat needs. Large cats can need small doses and small cats can need larger doses.
 
Hi Wendy, Cleo thanks you for the scritches :)
Finally I had to decide what to do, and I decided to give a try in restarting the protocol, so I gave her only 1 unit.
I know you are much more experienced than me and I'll never stop to thank you for your help, advices and time spent for me. Please don't think that I ignored what you say, but nobody was answering to me and I had to decide.

Do you think that restarting the protocol might hurt her in case she is getting not enough insulin? I need to see a change, now she doesn't move from pink and red.
What do you think about this graph? These are average bg values per week. As you can see they are getting more and more higher.

image (4).png

If you want to see the interactive version of the graph, I have published it here.

Thank you again.
 
When a cat is in high numbers it's hard to know if it's an inverted curve or not. Glucometers are less accurate in high numbers - all we can be certain about is that she is high.

Since you've gone ahead and shot, we have another 10-11 hours or so to have some of us talk about how you might proceed. One of us will get back to you.
 
Hi there Delia :cool:

Wonderful graph!
Is it possible to indicate dose increase points on it?
Or alternatively plot dose changes similarly on a separate graph that can be viewed below this one?

Also, has she ever received pain medication to ease any discomfort she may be experiencing from pancreatitis?
 
Hi Sandy, I think the following graph is pretty much what you have asked to me (UPM stands for insulin units at the pm shot). Tell me if it's OK or you need something different.
image (5).png

She has never received any pain medication. After she was hospitalized I gave her an antibiotic and a drug called ursacol (for pancreas I think) for 10 days plus a drug called Denamarin for liver for 30 days.

Thank you.
 
Sienne, wendy and I all think that she needs more insulin. It's pretty typical to have to go up in dose until you get a breakthrough.

Sandy is wondering if she's having a pancreatitis flare. That can definitely increase blood sugar.

The Pacreatitis primer is on the new to the group sticky.

As always the choice is up to you. But looking at her ss she has needed 2.25u to get out into blue the last time. The time before that it was 2.0u. Prior to that 1.75u. Usually you have to continue going up in dose.

If you don't choose to go back to 2.5u with the next shot, please test twice a day for ketones. They can develop quickly if the conditions are right. The recipe for ketones is not enough insulin + infection or inflammation + not enough food.

perhaps some others will add some more info. If she was mine, I'd explore pancreatitis and increase the dose until you see better #s.

Big hugs, I know how nerve-wracking it is when your kitty isn't thriving.
 
I understand wanting to try going to a lower dose. Last year at this time I was on a good dose for Neko for quite a while, and all of a sudden her numbers started getting worse. I always worry cause she's an acrocat, whether something is happening to her acro tumor and if she suddenly needs less insulin. So I tried lowering the dose. Her numbers got worse quickly, so I knew right away a lower dose was not the answer. As Julie says, if you keep the lower dose, check frequently for ketones. If you see her numbers getting even worse, you can take her dose right back up. You don't need to increase as per the protocol.
 
Julie, Wendy, thank you for understanding. The numbers this morning were very high, so I got back to 2.5 dose. I made an error, but I needed to see a change to undertand in which direction to go.
Thanks again!!!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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