01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmosis?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cheryl & Whiskers (GA)

Cheryl & Whiskers (GA)

Member Since 2010
Good Morning,

Whiskers has a nice AMPS 247 this morning, and we will do a curve this weekend.

The IM vet from the U of M called this morning, with some of results of her full blood panel. This is what we discussed:

Whiskers Electrolyte levels are off. Chloride level is dramatically low. Bicarbonate level is high. Sodium is low. Potassium is a little low but not dramatic. He is concerned as these levels are not normal We are to add 1/8 tsp of potassium chloride with the AM and PM food (so twice daily) and recheck electolyte levels via blood test next week (it will not be a full blood panel, it will be an electrolyte panel). If the levels do not improve we may have to do an unltasound.

She has no ketoacidosis and her liver enzymes are normal. She has no clinical signs of thryroid disease.

The results of the C & S should be in Monday or Tuesday.

The vet said it takes 3 to 5 days for the insulin dose change to plateau, hence the BG curve this weekend. We are doing spot checks until then.

Have a wonderful day.
 
Re: 01/27 Whiskers AMPS 247 We heard from the IM Vet at U of

Good that there isn't ketoacidosis. Don't know what to make of electrolyte disturbances, though wondering if there were lots of water drinking and excreting whether that would affect it/

How are you doing? Hanging in OK?
 
Re: 01/27 Whiskers AMPS 247 We heard from the IM Vet at U of

Hi, Cheryl & Whiskers.. thank you for sharing the results, I do not know how to interpret this information or what better to do than what has been suggested - thinking of you both though & agree..

How are you doing? :-D
 
Re: 01/27 Whiskers AMPS 247 We heard from the IM Vet at U of

Hoping the the Healing vines I am sending to Whiskers will help her get better soon--Good that you have good vet care for her--HUGS to you both!
 
Re: 01/27 Whiskers AMPS 247 We heard from the IM Vet at U of

Hi BJ, Roni, and Nicole,

We are doing Ok. I'm so relieved and excited to be working with the vet at the U of M.

We are not sure what to make of the electrolyte imbalance. I will post it in the subject and see if someone has any info/experiance with this sort of thing. I just hope it doesn't turn into something serious. One thought was that the raw diet may not have the electoylyte's needed, and that is why we are adding 1/8 tsp of potassium chloride to her food and than rechecking the electrolyte levels next week.

She does drink a lot of water and and excess urination (including urination outside the box). We do have very hard water in eagan, MN. :?:

Michelle and Peeps suggested we try reverse osmosis water that we can purchase from the grocery store for like .39 cents a gallon. We wanted to open a dialog about this, so I'm going to PM her and ask her to share infomation, see if it might apply.

I also got a copy of the blood work faxed to me today, and will post the results tonight when I get home from work (which is late 11:00pm).

Gotta get back to work now. Have a wonderful evening :mrgreen: .
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbance/reverse osmosi

Hi Cheryl,
I rushed home to see if you had posted results - and there they were. Interesting note about the raw diet you made. I have an appointment with the Clinical Nutritionist at the U about Harley and raw diet. I will share with you what I learn.

I hope you and DH are doing well...it is hard when our kitties are ill. Nice AMPS, maybe the new dose is working. Have fun at work.

Harley is crying - must be time for shot and dinner.

Pattie
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbance/reverse osmosi

Hi Cheryl,
So glad you go the lab work back quickly. My only experience with messed up electrolytes are related to kidney disease, dehydration, and/or excessive vomiting. Those are not occurring with Whiskers, so Im not sure. Maybe it is the raw food diet? Is there enough water in that diet? And does Whiskers drink much? Im guessing they would have said something if she was dehydrated. Curious to see if there is a UTI, and wondering if there could be any relationship there??? Hmmmmm... Well, you are in good hands with trying to figure it out. Thats for sure. Hopefully, despite all the hustle and bustle, Whiskers will start feeling better soon! Im glad you are on her side. :mrgreen:

Great to see an evening spot check the last few days! :thumbup
And really happy to hear you were able to kick your feet up, if even for a short while last night. You have been on the go go go lately.

Have a good night.
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbance/reverse osmosi

Hi Pattie and Carolyn,

I'm a real believer in the raw diet, so I'm hoping that is not an issue.
The IM Vet did mention the possiblity of switching to the prescription diets, I didn't say anything, but I'm real resistant to that. Anyway he said the raw diet is fine for now.

Whiskers is not dehydrated at least as far as I can tell (we add couple tablespoons of water to each meal), she also is not vomiting. So we shall wait and see. I'm crossing our fingers and paws that it will not be something serious (It is a possiblity), but for now we will wait and see.

I'm at work and have been on FDMB for to long, gotta go will update more tonight. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbance/reverse osmosi

hi, guys! i have no input, but i'm fascinated by what i'm learning here!
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbance/reverse osmosi

What raw diet are you feeding? Is it a commercially prepared diet or are you making it yourself? What supplements are you adding if the latter.

What kind of water are you using? Tap water, filtered, distilled?
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbance/reverse osmosi

Hi Sienne,

I'm feeding the raw diet prepared at Woody's pet food deli. If you click the link below in my signature line it takes you to the website. Anyway it is a small local business. We are very fortunate to have it as a resource here in Mpls/St. Paul. (I mentioned once maybe we should francise :lol: :lol: :lol: ). I purchase chicken, rabbit, and turkey. They have raw diet with and without supplements. I had not purchased any with supplements, until just last week. I bought the raw chix with supplements (I have a call in to the owner, but the gal who answered the phone said supplements are omega 3, vitamins and mineral, she said it wasn't anything that should affect electrolytes, but I will get the exact list when they call back and post it then)
We also add 1/2 tsp omega 3 to each feeding BID, I believe the brand is nordic naturals sardine oil.

We are using filtered water from our refrigerator. (but the filter is 6 years old, I don't think we have ever replaced it, so it is probably not effective). That is why I am considering (probably will) buying the reverse osmosis water from the grocery store.

Whiskers had blood panel done at our regular vet December 1st, when she was diagnosed with pancreatitis, but the electrolyte balance/numbers were good at that time.

Hope your having a good night :-D
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbance/reverse osmosi

I would not do RO water without first asking the vet. This could make things a whole lot worse for electrolite imbalance. RO water strips all the minerals completely from the water. Please do ask your vet. Its not supposed to even be for human consumption long term.
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

Hi Karrie and Maverick,

I didn't know that. I'm hoping Michelle and Peeps will stop by my condo with more information.

Thanks, have a good night. cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

Gosh.. I dunno.. but your plan of care/intent is no less than the very best.. it can all be overwhelming.. espescially getting conflicting advice @-)
I always go with the board for sure.. no doubt & only the experts ;-)
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

I was looking into it in 2008 when Maverick was sick with liver failure. My well water is nasty - ammonia, sulpher, iron, iron bacteria, nitrate. I decided against RO water unless a cat has other issues such as known issues and went with bottled spring water. Our bodies and cats bodies do need the minerals in water its not just for hydration. So I would look into it further and make a decision based on your cats requirements. Since I was reading specifically for Maverick (no urinary stones or kidney stones etc). It may for some reason be okay for your cat but because the blood work already showed an electrolite imbalance, thats why I suggested calling your vet first.
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

Glad that the test results came back with something. Just thought I'd pass along... if you need a source of potassium chloride, Morton's Lite Salt has it in there. Dr. Lisa included it in our raw diet for Willie.

Hope you guys get answers soon on what it all means!

Have a great night!!
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

I am not an expert at all... lots of good info out there and I know nothing about CRF or kidney disease or anything like that. Maybe its perfectly fine, even for short or long term, especially if a cat is getting most of their water/electrolites/minerals etc from wet food like our cats do. Maverick was 100% kibble when I was looking into this (but tube fed wet food). Just dealing with liver disease. So don't give bottled water on my advice either ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile And I'd hate for you not to give RO water if it could help based on my advice.
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

From what I can tell from the website, if you are feeding only raw meat, you are not feeding a balanced diet. Cats need certain supplements in their diet, such as taurine. The following is from Dr. Lisa's feline nutrition website and are the ingredients she adds to raw ground chicken:
Dr. Lisa Pierson said:
use the following ingredients - in amounts listed - per 3 pounds of raw meat/bones/skin.
  • 1 cup water (or, preferably, more if your cat will eat it with more water)
  • 2 eggs - use the yolk raw but lightly cook the white (see update below)
  • 2000 mg wild salmon or fish oil (a good source of essential fatty acids)
  • 400 IU (268 mg) Vitamin E (powdered E in capsules is the easiest to use)
  • 50 mg Vitamin B-complex (capsules or tablets)
  • 2,000 mg taurine (use powdered - either in capsules or loose)
  • 3/4 tsp Morton Lite salt with iodine when using chicken parts - see below** (Contains potassium and sodium. Make sure that it contains iodine.)
  • Liver - If using ground rabbit (which includes liver) from wholefoods4pets.com, do not add additional liver. If using chicken legs, thighs or a whole
    chicken carcass minus the organs, add 4 ounces of chicken livers per 3 lb of meat/bones/skin.
  • Psyllium - I no longer use psyllium in my cats' food. However, if you want to add some as a fiber source, use 2 tsp if using psyllium husk powder. If using whole psyllium husks, use 4 tsp. If using psyllium, be sure to add at least 1.5 cups of water to this recipe.
Click to expand...

If you are not adding these ingredients, or their equivalents, it is possible the plain raw food is at least part of the problem.
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

Hi Sienne,

I knew of Dr. Lisa raw food recipie, but had never seen it. I will definetly check with Woody's pet food deli, and find out what is in their raw food. Thanks so much. I'll have to bookmark this page.

Have a great night. cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

Hey everyone - I am the RO poster Cheryl has been talking about. I just so happened to be in class at the very moment I was needed! Figures!

I suggested RO water to Cheryl for the UTI's. We have a male cat that is very prone to UTI's and was on a prescription diet for it for a long time. Around the same time he went on prescription diets, so did our dog Giggles. Giggles had two bladder stones the sizes of small prunes removed from her bladder, and Buddy would get bladder crystals every week we stopped antibiotic treatment. Once we switched to a 100% RO water, all the problems went away - even concerning diet (Buddy would get flare ups if we gave him too much wet food pre-RO). Giggles never once again had mineral buildup related bladder problems, and Buddy has been on a diet for 2+ years that the vet specifically said he should not be on because of his potty problems. I am uploading a photograph of one of the bladder stones. I can't remember why the other one is not in the photo, but this is the larger of the two.

With wet food diets, dry kibble, and people food treats, our cats get a healthy arrangement of other water sources and other mineral sources. Just as I don't only drink RO water - I drink beverages not made from MN water, and I also drink our tap water (which has high levels of Radon, think your city water/well water is perfect? Check this out: http://projects.nytimes.com/toxic-waters/contaminants If you're on well water, check all surrounding city waters sources to see what problems they have) I do offer supplements to our pets that do have only RO water diets, especially my hermit crabs & birds, who eat almost exclusively dry diets because they're brats & it should be a major part of their lifestyle anyways.
 

Attachments

  • GigglesStone.jpg
    GigglesStone.jpg
    58.6 KB · Views: 1,125
Re: 01/27Whiskers AMPS247 electrolyte imbalance/reverse osmo

Cheryl...like Carolyn and others, my only experience with electrolyte problems is with CKD (CRF). We've had an RO system installed in our house on our water system for a very long time because our water here is so hard. We used to buy it at the water store but decided with as much as we drink, it was cheaper to just have our own system. Mike and I drink a lot of water from the RO system and the cats' bowls are filled from it and we've never had any problems. I've never heard that humans shouldn't drink water from an RO system long term....not saying it might not be true but I've never heard it. The water tastes so incredibly pure and, like Michele (Peeps), I think we and the cats get the appropriate minerals from other sources. Hope they can figure out what is going on with Whiskers!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top