01/22 Chanel AMPS 335 how to calculate phosphorus content

Laura & Chanel

Laura & Chanel

Member Since 2019
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/01-21-chanel-amps-365-pmps-412.224586/

I was wondering if anybody has a formula to calculate phosphorus and magnesium. Some of those values are given in percentages and not even sure if it is as fed or dry matter. Chanel's creatinine and BUN are high, not huge but over the max limit and I would like to start introducing lower phosphorus options. I was reading that best diet is with 250 mg phosphorus or less, I guess as fed?
 
I feed low phosphorus and I just went by the food chart- then double checked nutritional values of foods I was considering on Chewy. Com.
In the questions section, they often have nutritional breakdowns for carbs, phosphorus, sodium and other things. When in doubt, I called if I was not able to figure it out by comparing the % on Chewy with similar ones on the food chart.
 
Si am cat mom said:
I feed low phosphorus and I just went by the food chart- then double checked nutritional values of foods I was considering on Chewy. Com.
In the questions section, they often have nutritional breakdowns for carbs, phosphorus, sodium and other things. When in doubt, I called if I was not able to figure it out by comparing the % on Chewy with similar ones on the food chart.
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Some of those values do not seem correct. I checked for various foods and they seem different from the manufacturer, especially when they are answered by Chewy. I love Chewy but I am not sure of the correctness of the information posted by them. Also, in the food chart it seems that some of the values may be old (changed formula for some products).
 
Laura, I do know that the Whole Earth brand changed formulas since newest food chart came out .... phosphorus level in their food now in 300-400. So sad as that was my favorite :( For sure someone will know that formula...I’ll be interested as well:)
 
Beth 73 said:
Laura, I do know that the Whole Earth brand changed formulas since newest food chart came out .... phosphorus level in their food now in 300-400. So sad as that was my favorite :( For sure someone will know that formula...I’ll be interested as well:)
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@Beth 73 I also found out that Wellness changed some of the formulas as well. I just stopped Chanel from eating the pate (so sad because she loves it) and this morning her BG was 335, a little lower than previous days when she was given the pate. Since she was in high 300s and 400s for the most of the time while eating the pate, I had no other choice but to look into the food. I cannot say Lantus is not working, maybe it is not able to do much because of something else in her diet. I am pretty sad and upset seeing the vet's comments (I asked for the records) and the fact that they did not offer a solution to her increased creatinine and BUN but they were quick to criticize me for changing insulin and food without vet direction (maybe they did not like me taking her off the Purina Diabetes Management dry food but that food has so many bad ingredients, I do not even understand how they can prescribe it:().
Oh well...I seem to be in the market for a new vet:blackeye:
 
I appreciate Weruva because they publish different charts of what is in their food. My cat chose Paw Lickin Chicken as her primary food. Chicken Frick A Zee has the fewest carbs, (unless you choose fish) I think approx 2 on a dry matter basis. There is a Fowl Ball that might be good too.
Best of luck!!

Weruva Cat

Never tell Chanel you are trying to find/feed healthier food:smuggrin:
 
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Tina Marie and Jan said:
I appreciate Weruva because they publish different charts of what is in their food. My cat chose Paw Lickin Chicken as her primary food. Chicken Frick A Zee has the fewest carbs, (unless you choose fish) I think approx 2 on a dry matter basis. There is a Fowl Ball that might be good too.
Best of luck!!

Weruva Cat
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@Tina Marie and Jan Thank you very much for the info. Do you happen to know how they get to calculate their values? The thing is I am looking at the values for Wellness Core Beef Venison Lamb and try to compare with other charts including Dr. Pierson's...it simply does not match the values...I guess I am missing something here.
Do we need to look at phosphorus on dry matter basis? What would be the percentage then? I saw articles mentioning you must give to a cat with renal disease food with 0.3-0.5% phosphorus (dry matter). That is incredibly low and not being able to find a food like that until now.
 
Laura & Chanel said:
@Tina Marie and Jan Thank you very much for the info. Do you happen to know how they get to calculate their values? The thing is I am looking at the values for Wellness Core Beef Venison Lamb and try to compare with other charts including Dr. Pierson's...it simply does not match the values...I guess I am missing something here.
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I know I just tossed something out there, instead of getting to your actual question, which I can't answer yet.:(
I know there are others in the process of trying to get this info from the different companies. I gave up on my own mission, and just trust the Weruva I choose is low enough in phosphorus.

Laura - I hope you get better answers! In the past, I remember Wellness Core was what diabetic cats were advised to eat . . .
 
Tina Marie and Jan said:
I know I just tossed something out there, instead of getting to your actual question, which I can't answer yet.:(
I know there are others in the process of trying to get this info from the different companies. I gave up on my own mission, and just trust the Weruva I choose is low enough in phosphorus.

Laura - I hope you get better answers!
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@Tina Marie and Jan No no no, thank you so much for point out to Weruva. Just looked at the website and it looks AMAZING, I mean even I can understand those numbers LOL. The problem I have is that I got Chanel's blood work some time ago and trying to find the best food she can have while trying to improve her blood work values. She loves Fancy Feast, but I have that website rather scarce when it comes to information.
 
When we first started this journey, Tina was eating a Kidney diet food. After being diagnosed with FD and learning how high carb that food was, we switched to the best alternative we could find for her kidneys. The vet even agreed with my choice of the higher protein/ LC Weruva - he even admitted that a low protein diet (kidney diet food) wasn't good for a cat in earlier and mid-stages of CKD. I can't prove anything, but do often hear that FF in general is not low phosphorus!
Sending wishes for improved, or at least stable, values next time for the lovely Chanel. I hope she likes her new food choices, and appreciates all your work;)
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Try taking a look on Tanya's site. Her site is the bible for kitties with kidney issues. If she doesn't discuss how to calculate phos levels, there probably isn't a way to do it.
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@Sienne and Gabby (GA) She does, already checked. However, what I am not clear about (and that is not the only thing LOL) is what she gives is the DMA values, right? Then what are actually the phosphorus levels that are good for renal disease because 0.3-0.5% DMA is really low and I could not find a food with that levels in dry matter. From what I understand it is 300-500 mg/100 kcal, right?
 
Laura & Chanel said:
@Sienne and Gabby (GA) She does, already checked. However, what I am not clear about (and that is not the only thing LOL) is what she gives is the DMA values, right? Then what are actually the phosphorus levels that are good for renal disease because 0.3-0.5% DMA is really low and I could not find a food with that levels in dry matter. From what I understand it is 300-500 mg/100 kcal, right?
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Just an example from our Weruva PLC food chart: .82% DMB phosphorus = 196 mg/100 kcal
Under 200mg is supposed to be ok.
I think you have to actually feed a prescription kidney diet to get phosphorus as low as .5% DMB though.
 
Tina Marie and Jan said:
Just an example from our Weruva PLC food chart: .82% DMB phosphorus = 196 mg/100 kcal
Under 200mg is supposed to be ok.
I think you have to actually feed a prescription kidney diet to get phosphorus as low as .5% DMA though.
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@Tina Marie and Jan I will definitely look at Weruva and your example so I can learn. Your kitty looks like a Mitsubishi cat I saw once on Internet. They may be related.
 

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Have you tried to contact Wellpet and asked for the guaranteed analysis? They may or may not respond based on my numerous previous attempts with several manufactures.
http://www.wellpet.com/talk.aspx

I know they completely changed their formula a couple of years ago. Much high carb and phos content. I guess the could have changed it again but there were a few of us that were quite upset with them the first time (2017).

I found a condo where we were talking about it.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ting-changes-with-lantus.182458/#post-2024320
 
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