01/20 - Ti-Mousse - AMPS : 617 - +4.5: 419 - +8: 464 - PMPS : 560 - +3: 536

Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)

Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)

Member Since 2018
Previous condo 01/19
We'll see how the day goes! He's afraid to go down !! :(:( Dose increase to 3 units ??

I noticed that in 30 weeks, he had twice as much BLACK numbers in the PMPS than in the AMPS!
PMPS : 15 black numbers
AMPS: 8 black numbers
I'm searching and trying to find whatever could help him! I know during the night they're all sleeping so there is no food just water! During the day, they have breakfast, supper and few snacks during the day; all low carb <5%.
 
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Just some info about Cat food: Dr. Lisa Pierson has this to say: ( Have you read the sticky notes by Dr. Pierson?)

"Fish and beef are fairly common food allergens in the cat and can cause inflammatory bowel disease and skin allergies.
Fish is also more apt to be contaminated with heavy metals and PBDEs. PBDEs are fire retardant chemicals that have a possible link to hyperthyroidism.
Because fish is so palatable to most cats, many cat foods do contain some fish so be careful to read the labels.
Dr. Pierson recommends avoiding fish altogether.Fish-based cat food can contain fire-retardant chemicals linked to feline hyperthyroidism. There’s mercury in fish, and it also tends to be high in phosphorus. So there are a lot of reasons to stay away from fish.
 
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I don't ever feed my boys any kind of seafood. One, because I hate seafood myself and I don't want my house smelling like it. Two, I fed Max some seafood flavored canned food once a long time ago and he didn't even like it. Proud mom moment right there! Haha.

Edit: Also, cats don't typically eat fish or shrimps in the wild. Fishy cat food was started during one of the world wars, or so I've heard, when manufacturers needed a really cheap alternative to chicken and such. With soldiers and civilians on rations, they weren't about to spend valuable money and resources on making cat food.
 
Have you gone to other Posts & looked at the spread sheets? It's a good way to learn a lot, & get more information.The more you know the easier it will be to understand what's happening with the insulin & a Lot of other important things.

Hope your day goes well and T-Mousse's BG starts coming down. Maybe an increase soon?
 
Giomax said:
seafood flavored canned food
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I find it difficult to find canned cat food without fish in it! Everything I pick up seems to have some fish added. Manufactures know that fish has a strong flavor & ad it to everything! Some cats get addicted to it & won't eat unless they smell or taste the fish :(
I've read plenty of posts that say that's all their cat will eat! You're Lucky your Kitties don't like it ! Smart cats :cat::cat::cat:
 
I agree, I would increase tomorrow unless you see blue tonight. He is looking better. Those bounces just means the dose increases are bringing him better nadirs. Those nadirs are the most important numbers.

How is Ti-Mousse feeling/behaving lately? A kitty is much more than their numbers.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Those bounces just means the dose increases are bringing him better nadirs.
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What do you mean by this ??

Wendy&Neko said:
How is Ti-Mousse feeling/behaving lately?
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I'm glad to think he's looking better! Ti-Mousse is sleeping most of the day and sleeps with me at night; our little girl Zoe is 17 yo and she hates him... his "buddy" (that's what he thinks) is Pépé 12 yo who never had any friends, acting like a kitty in his own world and waiting for diagnosis for cancer of the eye from ophtalmologist, hopefully not :(:(, so Ti-Mousse doesn't have too many friends to play with and I think he became a little lazzy!! If I play with him, it's OK but I'm exhausted running after the ball after 10 minutes if he lasts that long !! Otherwise, litter boxes are OK, he drinks more when numbers are high and plays more with me when they are lower. He has a good appetite, no vomit! He hates testing... I will find a solution for that, as we still have a long way to go...:)

I will increase tomorrow to 3 units. Thank you so much!!
 
Wendy&Neko said:
nadirs are the most important numbers.
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Ti-Mousse said:
What do you mean by this ??
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Nadirs are important #'s,they are the lowest BG in a cycle.Cats usually drop the lowest during the night. You haven't done any tests from +4 to +8 at night.No one knows if he might be dropping lower at night,so we don't know what his nadirs are for the PM
When you increase the dose the bg goes lower.
When his BG goes lower than what his body is used to or if his BG drops fast the Liver releases sugar which then causes the BG to go higher. This is called a "bounce"

Hope the increase brings his BG down. :)
 
JoyBee&Ravan said:
Nadirs are important #'s,they are the lowest BG in a cycle.Cats usually drop the lowest during the night. You haven't done any tests from +4 to +8 at night.No one knows if he might be dropping lower at night,so we don't know what his nadirs are for the PM
When you increase the dose the bg goes lower.
When his BG goes lower than what his body is used to or if his BG drops fast the Liver releases sugar which then causes the BG to go higher. This is called a "bounce"

Hope the increase brings his BG down. :)
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It
Is there a lot of difference between AM Nadir and PM Nadir
JoyBee&Ravan said:
Nadirs are important #'s,they are the lowest BG in a cycle.Cats usually drop the lowest during the night. You haven't done any tests from +4 to +8 at night.No one knows if he might be dropping lower at night,so we don't know what his nadirs are for the PM
When you increase the dose the bg goes lower.
When his BG goes lower than what his body is used to or if his BG drops fast the Liver releases sugar which then causes the BG to go higher. This is called a "bounce"

Hope the increase brings his BG down. :)
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Quick question, how can someone test at +4 and +8 at night if working; is there a huge difference between testing at +4 and +8 during day versus night ? I understand that when we're going into low numbers it's critical to test all around the clock ... until then for Ti-Mousse could +3 be sufficient until I get him into an earlier schedule and can do +4 ?
 
ECID so you will need to find out when Ti's nadir is but typically, Nadirs on Lantus are between +4 to +6. For Ming, I believe his Nadir is +5 or +6 and he'll sometimes go down again some time later in the cycle at +8. How do I know? I'm a test-Nazi. I test a lot and sometimes too much. Of course, I'm fortunate to have family members that can test for me when I'm work and I'm fortunate to have more than the standard two days off a week (I get 3 days off). I can also run on very little sleep. loL!!!

Of course, not everyone can test so much. That's why it's recommended you try to fill in the blanks when you can. You might regularly be able to get a +3 but say, you have a day off, try to get a +5 too. Fill in those blanks whenever you can.

As for testing at night when you have work the next day: alarms!!! I will set up an alarm to wake me up at 2 AM. I'll groggily wake up and test Ming and then promptly go back to sleep. On cycles when Ming is going too low, I will test him, set my alarm to wake me up 30 mins or an hour later, and sleep. Then repeat until Ming is in safe numbers again. It sucks and sometimes I miss my alarm and sleep through it but I try really hard to do it. I've also been recommended to put my phone on my chest while I sleep so the phone not only wakes me up with its alarm but also vibrates on my chest.

Most cats will go lower at night. Don't know why but Ming is like that too. So if you don't test him, then you won't know if Ti is going low at night. If Ti gets low at night, what you see in the AM might be his response to the low. In most cases, a cat who isn't used to lows will bounce up to high numbers the next cycle. So if you never test at night, he might just look high all the time but in reality, he's going low at night.

Does that all make sense? It's a lot of information and it's confusing. In the beginning, I would ask the same question in different ways without even knowing it. Thank god for all the patient and helpful people here on the forum!
 
Crista & Ming said:
ECID so you will need to find out when Ti's nadir is but typically, Nadirs on Lantus are between +4 to +6. For Ming, I believe his Nadir is +5 or +6 and he'll sometimes go down again some time later in the cycle at +8. How do I know? I'm a test-Nazi. I test a lot and sometimes too much. Of course, I'm fortunate to have family members that can test for me when I'm work and I'm fortunate to have more than the standard two days off a week (I get 3 days off). I can also run on very little sleep. loL!!!

Of course, not everyone can test so much. That's why it's recommended you try to fill in the blanks when you can. You might regularly be able to get a +3 but say, you have a day off, try to get a +5 too. Fill in those blanks whenever you can.

As for testing at night when you have work the next day: alarms!!! I will set up an alarm to wake me up at 2 AM. I'll groggily wake up and test Ming and then promptly go back to sleep. On cycles when Ming is going too low, I will test him, set my alarm to wake me up 30 mins or an hour later, and sleep. Then repeat until Ming is in safe numbers again. It sucks and sometimes I miss my alarm and sleep through it but I try really hard to do it. I've also been recommended to put my phone on my chest while I sleep so the phone not only wakes me up with its alarm but also vibrates on my chest.

Most cats will go lower at night. Don't know why but Ming is like that too. So if you don't test him, then you won't know if Ti is going low at night. If Ti gets low at night, what you see in the AM might be his response to the low. In most cases, a cat who isn't used to lows will bounce up to high numbers the next cycle. So if you never test at night, he might just look high all the time but in reality, he's going low at night.

Does that all make sense? It's a lot of information and it's confusing. In the beginning, I would ask the same question in different ways without even knowing it. Thank god for all the patient and helpful people here on the forum!
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Let's review all this and you tell me if I understand well and where I'have missed PLUS a few questions to clarify the whole thing !!!

- For Ti, I noticed he always has lower #s around +5 and +6 during the AM cycle and doesn't go down at +8, which would be his AM nadir. Can we expect to have a nadir at around the same time +5 +6 during the PM cycle?

- If he AM nadir is very very low, can we expect a bounce during the PM cycle? if so,
could it bring down the PM nadir lower than usual and cause a bounce on next day's AM cycle ?
OR
could it boost up the PM nadir and cause a high flat courve on next day's AM cycle?

Does that makes sense? I think that when we understand clearly that concept, it's easier to manage the dosage!

Thank you so much !
 
Ti-Mousse said:
- For Ti, I noticed he always has lower #s around +5 and +6 during the AM cycle and doesn't go down at +8, which would be his AM nadir.
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For now, it would seem so that Ti does get lower numbers at around +6. It may change for Ti in the future. As time goes on and as you gather more data and Ti gets lower numbers, it will become clearer.

Even after 3 months, I'm still trying to figure Ming out and sometimes, he'll throw a surprise at me. Ming is NOT regulated yet so right now, he might be going low at +5 and +6, but he might change that up one day. Sometimes I'll get a low PS shot. Why? I don't know. o_O Maybe his dose is too much or maybe his pancreas decided to work for a bit. But the silver lining is: when Ming gets unpredictable, I get to learn and when and if it happens again, I'll have an idea of what to do. Same will be for Ti. Although, I wish for you and Ti that you both have an uneventful FD journey. Sometimes I stumble across a member's whose kitty gets quite close to being regulated within 2 months. It's beautiful when that happens!

The +8 low is an example I was giving in Ming's case and even then, I'm not 100% sure he always goes low at +8. Again, the patterns specific to Ti will reveal itself the more you test and as time goes on.

Ti-Mousse said:
Can we expect to have a nadir at around the same time +5 +6 during the PM cycle?
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I want to say yes. Maybe another more experienced member can confirm this. I hadn't thought about if a nadir can be different between the AM or PM cycle.

I think it will be easier for me to show examples of when bounces might happen first (again, a more experienced member might add to this later):
- when kitty sees a lower number they aren't used to so the liver will "panic" and make more sugar. For example, a kitty just starting insulin might have been used to numbers above 400+ for a while. So when you give kitty insulin, kitty's BSL goes down. It might encounter a number like 300 or 250. That's not low in the general sense but kitty hasn't seen 250 for a while now. And the body thinks 400+ is "normal" and sees 250 as TOO LOW! So the liver releases a bunch of sugar in attempt to get the body back to "normal". The next few cycle might be high and flat for a while. Overtime, the goal is to get kitty to go low more and more and for the body to recognize these lower numbers as good, healthy numbers.
- when kitty's numbers go low TOO FAST! Same concept. The liver panics because it thinks its going to go hypo or too low and releases lots of sugar. The next few cycles or numbers become really high as a result of the natural/excess sugars produced by the body.

Some cats might not bounce or will only bounce for part of a cycle. Some cats might take one cycle to get over a bounce and some cats might take 3 cycles to get over a bounce. Insulin and the L insulin's depots helps to push bounces out as well.

Ti-Mousse said:
If he AM nadir is very very low, can we expect a bounce during the PM cycle?
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Sometimes yes. Again, ECID. On 1/12, Ti saw yellow for the first time. Then at PMPS, saw a 576. The 576 might have been a reaction to the low number OR just the insulin wearing off OR a combination of both.

Ti-Mousse said:
could it bring down the PM nadir lower than usual and cause a bounce on next day's AM cycle ?
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For these questions, again, maybe another member can answer.

But I think what's more important is to figure out what Ti does. What does Ti do with his low numbers after? When does Ti go low? Does Ti go low at night? How long does it take Ti to clear a bounce? Does Ti even bounce? How dramatic is Ti's bounces?

It's hard for me to interpret Ti's SS since I'm still learning and quite new. I'll leave that to the other members.
 
Ti-Mousse said:
What do you mean by this ??
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As the nadirs get lower, they are getting closer to normal numbers. Ti-Mousse’s body is not used to normal numbers yet so is bouncing. That’s a sign the insulin is working to bring his numbers down.

Nadirs on Lantus can vary. My Neko had Lantus nadirs between +3.5 and +13, though most often between +7 and +9. Some kitties nadir very early in the cycle. ECID. Even though Neko had later nadirs, I didn’t stay up every night to catch the nadir, rather I tried to learn her blood sugar patterns to find out when I needed to get up and when I could sleep. Those patterns went over several cycles. Her PM nadirs were often at different times from her AM ones.

As Ti gets into better numbers overall, you will better be able to see when his nadirs are and see what his cyckes look like. Bounces can mess with things, numbers wobble around during bounces, bounce breaking cycles have later nadirs, bounces can even be delayed in some cats. As he gets more used to normal numbers, bounces will decrease.

Keep gathering data, keep increasing until he gets into better numbers, and it will become more clear.
 
Crista & Ming said:
For now, it would seem so that Ti does get lower numbers at around +6. It may change for Ti in the future. As time goes on and as you gather more data and Ti gets lower numbers, it will become clearer.

Even after 3 months, I'm still trying to figure Ming out and sometimes, he'll throw a surprise at me. Ming is NOT regulated yet so right now, he might be going low at +5 and +6, but he might change that up one day. Sometimes I'll get a low PS shot. Why? I don't know. o_O Maybe his dose is too much or maybe his pancreas decided to work for a bit. But the silver lining is: when Ming gets unpredictable, I get to learn and when and if it happens again, I'll have an idea of what to do. Same will be for Ti. Although, I wish for you and Ti that you both have an uneventful FD journey. Sometimes I stumble across a member's whose kitty gets quite close to being regulated within 2 months. It's beautiful when that happens!

The +8 low is an example I was giving in Ming's case and even then, I'm not 100% sure he always goes low at +8. Again, the patterns specific to Ti will reveal itself the more you test and as time goes on.



I want to say yes. Maybe another more experienced member can confirm this. I hadn't thought about if a nadir can be different between the AM or PM cycle.

I think it will be easier for me to show examples of when bounces might happen first (again, a more experienced member might add to this later):
- when kitty sees a lower number they aren't used to so the liver will "panic" and make more sugar. For example, a kitty just starting insulin might have been used to numbers above 400+ for a while. So when you give kitty insulin, kitty's BSL goes down. It might encounter a number like 300 or 250. That's not low in the general sense but kitty hasn't seen 250 for a while now. And the body thinks 400+ is "normal" and sees 250 as TOO LOW! So the liver releases a bunch of sugar in attempt to get the body back to "normal". The next few cycle might be high and flat for a while. Overtime, the goal is to get kitty to go low more and more and for the body to recognize these lower numbers as good, healthy numbers.
- when kitty's numbers go low TOO FAST! Same concept. The liver panics because it thinks its going to go hypo or too low and releases lots of sugar. The next few cycles or numbers become really high as a result of the natural/excess sugars produced by the body.

Some cats might not bounce or will only bounce for part of a cycle. Some cats might take one cycle to get over a bounce and some cats might take 3 cycles to get over a bounce. Insulin and the L insulin's depots helps to push bounces out as well.



Sometimes yes. Again, ECID. On 1/12, Ti saw yellow for the first time. Then at PMPS, saw a 576. The 576 might have been a reaction to the low number OR just the insulin wearing off OR a combination of both.



For these questions, again, maybe another member can answer.

But I think what's more important is to figure out what Ti does. What does Ti do with his low numbers after? When does Ti go low? Does Ti go low at night? How long does it take Ti to clear a bounce? Does Ti even bounce? How dramatic is Ti's bounces?

It's hard for me to interpret Ti's SS since I'm still learning and quite new. I'll leave that to the other members.
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Thank you so much for taking all that time for us.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
As the nadirs get lower, they are getting closer to normal numbers. Ti-Mousse’s body is not used to normal numbers yet so is bouncing. That’s a sign the insulin is working to bring his numbers down.

Nadirs on Lantus can vary. My Neko had Lantus nadirs between +3.5 and +13, though most often between +7 and +9. Some kitties nadir very early in the cycle. ECID. Even though Neko had later nadirs, I didn’t stay up every night to catch the nadir, rather I tried to learn her blood sugar patterns to find out when I needed to get up and when I could sleep. Those patterns went over several cycles. Her PM nadirs were often at different times from her AM ones.

As Ti gets into better numbers overall, you will better be able to see when his nadirs are and see what his cyckes look like. Bounces can mess with things, numbers wobble around during bounces, bounce breaking cycles have later nadirs, bounces can even be delayed in some cats. As he gets more used to normal numbers, bounces will decrease.

Keep gathering data, keep increasing until he gets into better numbers, and it will become more clear.
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As usual, good info! Tks.
 
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