01/20/2015 AMPS 96 PMPS 90 +3 56 +4 92 30 minutes after food

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Cindywith4cutecats

Cindywith4cutecats

Member Since 2014
Freaking out. Norman started his day normal with his .25 unit of Lantus . We used up what we could of HIS SOLOSTAR PEN , it was 12/9/2014. So for his PM shot we opened up a new pen and gave him his .25 unit. I noticed that Norman had skipped his SNACK time but he had a big dinner so I was not upset about it. Then I saw Norman come out to the kitchen like he normally would do to scavenge for food lol and I caught a slight stagger, he was walking but his rear end banged very very slightly into the cupboard. We checked his BG ASAP and on Relion Mirco meter he was 56. I ran and got his normal canned food and as he was eating I decided to check with the old Alphatrak meter and got a 100. SO I am freaking out, we are now practicing to give him the .1 unit ....his .25 unit has been a skinny unit....can someone look at his SS , I know I can't get the color coding on it as far down as I need lol .......but if you could give me some direction on this I would appreciate it. I fed him right away after the low BG of 56 and 55 minutes later he was begging again so we gave him more food....I am up for the night now
 
Cindy,

First, BREATHE!!! 56 is not really that low, so don't panic. However, with any number under 60, you want to feed and test again in 30 minutes. You said you fed him an hour later, but have you tested him again yet? If not, please do. You need to find out if he's still dropping. Please test again ASAP and post with the number.

FYI, he doesn't actually earn a reduction until he's under 50.
 
Hi Cindy...Tricia is right...56 is not super low..not on a HUMAN meter. You are maybe mixing up ranges with your old AT? If he drops below 50, per protcol you would reduce the dose. Hank would have #s in 50's when he was OTJ, no insulin. That's actually a beautiful number. Check him again in a bit, but unless it drops much he should be fine.
 
This is NOT the lowest ever. At the start of Lantus within the first two weeks I had gotten a 52 on Alpatrak meter...stopped insulin and lowered next morning per Vet. I am using relion micro meter now cause of the expense. I freaked and used the old AT Meter to double check him......I believe the protocol on human meter is 50 to 100 is normal range
 
What we hope for is 70-120 on a human meter. 50 is a little low - think caution sign - but not too low. Cindy, what percentage of carb food did you give him? That may have caused the big jump.

I think you can take the 911 off your subject line now. :D
 
BG of 56 at only 3 hours into this dose scared me. He usually gives me his NADIR around the 4 to 5 hour mark..he staggered and that freaked me out. He always has his snack but he missed it tonight cause he was not asking for food (and he is usually spot on the TIME , he can tell time ) and playing on the screen porch....I think if he would have eaten I would not have gotten a BG of 56
 
Hi. I just looked at your ss and he is doing fine. Since he was in the 50's at +3 you will need to test more often depending on what the next test shows. Have you read the stickie on how to handle low numbers? You have people advising you now so no need to tonight but maybe tomorrow? I printed a copy and kept it next to my computer to be ready when Max first went low. Only once did Max ever act any different when he dropped into the 30's.

He was likely on his way up when you got the 53. I'd test again in an hour.
 
he was fed twice since the low BG 55 minutes apart ...his food is Hills M/D canned food. He won't eat anything else , turns his nose up FF and many others. We have a special kitty that happens to not be able to handle FISH product in cat foods. Whats weird is it depends how far down on the ingredient list FISH PRODUCT IS. Little background, when he was 3 years old (going on 10 this August ) he was throwing up non stop , so bad he went to the Vet hospital and had to have fluids etc...many tests later and no conclusions. He snubbed food altogether so I went and bought a can of every food I could find..opened them all up and placed them out on the floor until he picked one. I read every label to figure out WHY. Turned out he knows fish product makes him sick and he won't touch it, turns his nose and gags
 
Stupid Question. I fed him after the low bg and tested him 30 minutes later and got the 92 ...I would think that is a normal jump in glucose from eating . am I right ? I am trying to learn so that when he goes off the juice I know what numbers I always want to see. I figured he should sit in normal range of anywhere from 50 to 120 , 120 being the highest BG after eating and then see it dropping over time and go back to numbers under 100 and that his pre food BG would be between 50 and 80...
 
Food spikes may show up as late as 2 hours after a meal.
Gravy or syrup carbs may be absorbed more quickly and show up in 20-30 minutes.

Also, a Lantus pen, refrigerated on a stationary shelf, can last up to 6 months. No need to swap out monthly; that's for humans who don't refrigerate it.
 
Cindywith4cutecats said:
I figured he should sit in normal range of anywhere from 50 to 120 , 120 being the highest BG after eating and then see it dropping over time and go back to numbers under 100 and that his pre food BG would be between 50 and 80..
Click to expand...

Actually, it's quite normal for a cat that's OTJ to have a BG in the 40's, but it sounds like you have it figured out...If you feed them and a few hours later the BG goes down, that's a good sign that the pancreas is working to produce insulin
 
Cindy, here's a little excerpt from the Tight Regulation protocol sticky above re:
Remission:
  • From Tilly's Diabetes Homepage:
    Phase 5: Remission

    "14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible. Test the cat's BGs once per month.
Click to expand...
Yes, its likely elevated from the food. One thing we sometimes do when there are in their OTJ trial is to food test, which is feed, then check the BG in 2-3 hours to see if they brought themselves down...which indicates Mr.pancreas is working.
For now, the more time he can spend in those healing 50-100 numbers, the better. You are smart to keep an eye out, but you are testing and have food so can bump him up to keep him safe and see the effects of that as you do...
 
I was told that the Hills Canned M/D is 10% carb by the VET....Norman gets no dry food at all not even the special Hills M/D dry..NOTHING. He may get some boiled chicken tib bits once or twice a week at a treat if we are doing extra testing
 
Cindy has Norman been on insulin over a year?.... If so his reduce number is 40 not 50. IE: if he drops below 40 you reduce. I thought it was not that long, which is why we had said 'below 50' prior. So to clarify, how long has it been?
 
Betty and Hank, thank you. Norman is not ready then for OTJ because he can't seem to stay in the range of 50 to 80 with food...from getting extra food ( the snack he missed and his bedtime snack ) he number is 109 , we tested him again 30 minutes after his bedtime snack
 
Dr Lisa's chart shows Hills MD has 14% calories from carbs. I didn't recall you were feeding that. That's more MC
 
That's what I thought, Chris thought longer. Chris tag you are it here too....we keep cross posting same thing!!!! Lol. Great minds.....

Eta: that last time was tricia.

Betty and Hank, NO he has not been on insulin a year at all. He startedon September 30th 2014 so just a little over 3 months
Click to expand...
Yes Norman is a star pupil!! ;):)
 
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Cindy...actually, Norman HAS earned the reduction back to .1

He's stayed in normal numbers for over 14 cycles (anything under 120 is considered normal..and even an occasional higher number since there's a 20% variance on the meter)
 
Yes he has been on the Hills Canned M/D....we started out on another Royal Cannin Special food for diabetics but he refused to touch it, Then we tried on our Own FF Classic and he wouldn't touch it , so I called the vet and he suggested the M/D (NOT D/M ) and Norman ate it...we had gotten scared cause he was diabetic , needing insulin and refuses to eat . He got dry hills m/d for 4 days while we tried other canned foods on him. Norman loves canned food but he is picky about which ones he will eat. From all the changes in food he ended up with a UTI and on Clavimox and since he had a sterile cystitis when he was 3 years old with BLOOD in the urine I have been on the fence about changing cat foods again...I am considering after he goes on trial of OTJ of having him tested, the fructosamin blood test (spelling ) since my vet only charges 54 dollars for it after 3 weeks of OTJ to insure my testing is correct..Norman is busy playing right now on his 7 1/2 foot cat tree , so he is feeling frisky playing with the other cats
 
Cindy, to clarify Norman does not need to stay in 50-80 range with food to be ready for OTJ. Either he earns reductions from dropping below 50, or from staying in normal numbers for 14 cycles. And as you continue to take these reductions there is a point where there is no where else to go.....you can't go lower. That is when your 14 day OTJ trial starts.
Glance back over the Tight Regulation protocol sticky above, that should help make it clearer. And if you will keep posting here daily, you will have extra eyes to help guide you down.
Norman is on a mission for sure...(anti-jinx).
 
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Have you tried some of the other foods from the chart below 10%? It will really help if you can get and keep him on those once OTJ to maintain diet control
 
Ok I wish my brain was working better lol ..My memory is shot so I can shoot out for fact numbers on this and I can't find the paper right now.....Someone correct if I am wrong. When I was figuring out carbs with all the cat food at the start......Fancy Feast Classic is a low carb usually aroung 7% however for Normans size and weight he would require for his calorie intake 3 cans of Fancy Feast a day which to me translates to 21 carbs per day and possibly a little over cause the cold fronts cause him to demand more food.........on the M/D canned is 14 % in a larger can and he only eats I full can and about 1/2 of the second can so he would be back at 21% carbs for the day...AM I RIGHT or did I spend two days for nothing figuring that one out.....One problem I have with some other canned food in the past is that the cheaper cat foods he demands more food and that is why we got the overweight kitty..he is losing a little weight on the M/D as the vet wanted him to
 
With all your testing I am not sure why you would need a fructosamine. Those are averages and yours are real-time data
 
Www.catinfo.org Dr. Lisa explains it best.
It's 10% CALORIES from CARBS. Aka ME or metabolize energy values. So whether a teaspoon, tablespoon or whole can,... X % calories come from carb, the remainder from protein, & fat. (These 3 must =100%).
She has done the calculations for you. Pull her food charts from her site ....look on right hand side, and just select ones with 10% or less. You are feeding MC now. I bet it will help Normans numbers.
I kept hank under 10% from time of DX through remission....he remained diet controlled to the end.
 
You don't need to add the values from cans together. Its the percent of calories, not the total calories.
 
Cindy, there are a lot of foods that are better quality than Fancy Feast (although that is not bad - don't get me wrong). Wellness grain free are great. Many cats like them. I don't know where you live, so I don't know what foods are available, but some people here have had success with Dave's Cat food, Soulistic, Tiki Cat, Evo, and Ziwpeak, to name a few. Does Norman prefer pate, or will he eat the shredded stuff? BFF is great, but it's all the shredded meats in broth (and mostly fish, now that I think of it). My cats prefer pate. I feed Fancy Feast to my picky cat that is on chemo right now, and Wellness, Evo, Pinnacle and Dave's to my sugar cat and my two others. Please look at Dr. Lisa's list. It's my bible.
 
so I spent a lot of time trying to figure that one out. I get hesitant on changing foods cause we seem to always get a bout of a UTI...I get gun shy having had two cats in the past with Crystals and not even the money, the pain that both those cats went thru. I am going to spend some time going over the cats foods on Lisa's list and seeing what I can do and how to switch him slowly so that we don't get a UTI......Norman only gets a UTI if his food is changed on him, he has 4 uti in his life and they have all been linked to diet change . We could change his diet over slowly for a two week time and BAM 5 to 7 after the change he had a UTI and I hate them in males cause you always run the risk of those pesky crystals.
 
Once I switched Hank to low carb/ high protein for his FD, (w/couple T of water added each feeding), he never again had recurrence of previously chronic urinary issues. He had suffered crystals for years and even blocked before but feeding him correctly (theoretically for diabetes) changed everything.


Have you read Dr. Lisa's site?.... Tons of info on all this, not just in regards to FD. She has section on urinary health. She really is the guru of feline nutrition. It all makes such sense
 
we tried W/D by Hills it was dry food but thats when the blood sugar hit him. He has been tested prior to cause of his weight and his blood glucose was in normal range (fructosamine test ) so once switched to W/D dry food and canned food mix he showed up with Diabetitis
 
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