01/15 Bailey UK - AMPS 256 / +6 203 / PMPS 234

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BaileyUK

BaileyUK

Member Since 2013
Feeling yellow again today but Bailey has been a perky boy a lot more alert and has been out more today.

Hoping for some blue tomorrow...

B&B
 
Glad Bailey is feeling better and out more often. Nice flat numbers. Hope some blues are right around the corner! Have a great day guys!
 
Hi Barnes!

I got your message about wanting help with Bailey's dose. This is the last post you've got on the TR forum, so i'm bumping it up. We give all advice in public so that there is peer review of the advice. That keeps things safe for the kitties and helps a person get the best possible advice on how to treat them.

Here's your last post from the Relaxed forum:

BaileyUK said:
Hi

We're trying to get Bailey back into stable numbers but it is a struggle. He seems to have been doing well at first after we knocked his dose down to 3.75 from 4 units. Whilst on 4 units he was clearly getting too low and bouncing.

We had some good day figures but realised we needed to be testing more after his PM shot as this is when he was going lowest.

We are still quite new to all this and dosing is proving difficult so hoping someone with experienced eyes can steer us back on track.

We have upped him as from this morning back onto 4 units so the next few days we should see how he's settling in but thinking he may be on too much owing to the bounces whilst on this dose previously.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

Barnes and Bailey
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Looking at his ss, I don't think the 4u is too much. It does really help to be able to see what's going on if you can vary those times a little bit. You mum said that she can't get night time tests, although i see a few there. Those are really helpful because so many cats go lower at night.

Most cats are difficult to get regulated. I don't think you're doing anything wrong. The pancreatitis is common among diabetic cats and it can definitely add to the difficulty in getting their blood sugar leveled out. I think you said before that you were giving aloe vera and that was helping. pancreatitis can be chronic, like it's simmering in the body, or it can be acute, where you suddenly will see a very sick cat.

It's hard to know if Bailey has chronic pancreatitis or not. Giving subcutaneous fluids and pain relief can make a huge difference in helping the pancreas. I think i gave you the link a few posts back on pancreatitis - it's on the "New to the Group" sticky down near the bottom. With Bailey's prior diagnosis of pancreatitis, i think i would study that and see if there are suggestions there that you or your mum can implement to help him feel better.

Now that you've increased his dose back to 4.0u, i'd hold it there for 6-10 cycles (total) to see how low it will take Bailey. How low you want the dose to take him depends upon your schedule and life. You don't want to push him into green numbers (less than 100) if you/your mum aren't able to test enough to catch if he goes low. There's nothing wrong with saying that's where your life is right now. Everybody has to work around their other life commitments. If that's the case, then he's probably at a good dose right now.

If he can be tested earlier in the cycle so he's caught if he's going low, then you can work to get him under 120 and keep him there, which is the goal of TR. It's your choice and either goal is ok.

Keep posting! we'll do our best to help you. If you don't get an answer to your question, add a "reply" to your own post to bump it up, or edit the subject line to say you need help. Sometimes we miss seeing posts if they don't have something to flag attention and say a person wants advice.

Hope you're having a wonderful day! julie
 
Thank you for your reply,According to vet Bailey has chronic pancreatitis,thank goodness not showing any of the classic signs,no vomiting,no loose stools,just when he goes into the pinks he is very quiet,and not doing his usual cat routine! We would ideally like to get him under the renal threshold for most of the time,am worried about kidney damage,If we could get rid of the pinks,and keep him as much as possible in blues with the odd high green that would be wonderful.I will get you as many before bed bg tests as I can.I think with his ongoing pancreatic rumblings,and the fact I cannot test through the night,this is possibly the best we can hope for.once again many thanks to you all on this forum. Diane (Barnes & Baileys mum)
 
the two cornerstones that many of us have used for treating pancreatitis is to add the subcutaneous fluids (subq's) and to give pain relief, usually oral Buprinorphin (not sure if i have that spelled right.) We call it Bupe.

Oddly enough, it seems difficult to keep cats under 200 (renal threshold) all the time unless we are keeping them under 120. The curious thing about this is that as the numbers get lower, the cycles flatten out until they can actually become almost a straight line.

So shooting a 300's might cause a drop to 100, but shooting 120 might only cause a drop to 80, and shooting 80 might end up with a low of 75 for the cycle. It's counter-intuitive to me and to most of us when we begin. You think if shooting that 300 causes a drop of 200 points, if i shoot 80, i'll kill my cat. but it doesn't work that way.

Shooting low does require more monitoring, though. i shouldn't just say that paragraph above without adding this comment.

You're getting a zig-zag cycle now, which is how most cats start out on Lantus. It takes a while to fine tune to get to a dose that has that flat line cycle instead of the zig-zag. and it does require a lot of testing to get there.

You might see Bailey doing better if he had the fluids and pain relief though. It can make a huge difference.
 
The vet does not think Bailey is in pain,we have queried this every time we visit his surgery,he is a very respected and experienced vet,(apart from diabetes) so we don't want to give him pain med if he does not need it,he also says he is nor dehydrated,we queried this each time we go,am sure he thinks we are the patient parents from hell!
On our hopes for BG numbers, if we could just oust the pinks out of the equation we would be content for now,when he has few yellows and mostly blues his much more like our happy boy before this illness took its tole. I will do whatever I can to give you the information you need to try and make this possible.many many thanks from Bailey and Diane
 
My cat has had chronic pancreatitis for 4 years and possibly why we ended up here. When he feels rotten, he becomes inappetent. I have tried buprenex but it didn't seem to make a difference. Max hides pain very well if he has any which is common for cats. I do give him ondansetron for nausea when he becomes inappetent and that works. He was just diagnosed mid November and I've yet to figure out if he has had pancreatitis since then. Usually a vet visit would bring one on but we had so many last month that maybe he started to get used to it. I hope Bailey doesn't have chronic pancreatitis. There is a good yahoo support group for it if you are interested.

Elise
 
Diane --

First, I would want to know if a spec FPLI has been run on Bailey. This is the blood test that is used to diagnose pancreatitis. If the vet tells you that he ran a lipase level and that's how he diagnosed pancreatitis, that's a good test for dogs and totally meaningless in cats. In humans, pancreatitis is exquisitely painful. I would suggest asking the vet if he knows of anyone who's ever had pancreatitis and if they would want to donate their pain meds to someone. If, in fact, Bailey has pancreatitis, he needs pain meds. The pain may be what's contributing to his elevated numbers.

It is important to get at least one PM test in order to insure that Bailey is in safe numbers. We strongly encourage a before bed test every night. Would moving Bailey's shot time a bit earlier help to get routine PM tests?
 
Thank you all for your thoughts on Baileys condition,He has has a FPLI blood test twice,they both showed elevated levels,also he has had abdominal ultra sound,this showed up inflamed pancreas,we has this done because his tummy is quite swollen,since taking the Aloe vera this swelling had slightly subsided,the vet also did X-rays.
He has up to press not shown any other classic signs,no vomiting,diarrhea,or on examination no obvious abdominal pain,he is eating and drinking well,and doing his cat routines.
He was high PSAM today 21.1 have given him 5mg of Tramadol,and have made appointment with vet for tomorrow to discuss the pain issue.many thanks for your support,will post tomorrow after seeing vet.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts on Baileys condition,He has has a FPLI blood test twice,they both showed elevated levels,also he has had abdominal ultra sound,this showed up inflamed pancreas,we has this done because his tummy is quite swollen,since taking the Aloe vera this swelling had slightly subsided,the vet also did X-rays.
He has up to press not shown any other classic signs,no vomiting,diarrhea,or on examination no obvious abdominal pain,he is eating and drinking well,and doing his cat routines.
He was high PSAM today 21.1 have given him 5mg of Tramadol,and have made appointment with vet for tomorrow to discuss the pain issue.many thanks for your support,will post tomorrow after seeing vet.
 
Re: 01/15 Bailey UK - AMPS 256 / +6 203 / PMPS 234 ?

The vet is adamant that Bailey is not in pain re pancreatitis,and does not want to put him on pain med unless he needs it. The last 24 hours Bailey has been very perky,he even had a play with his toys which we have not seen since he was diagnosed,he spent most of yesterday outside patrolling! coming in to eat and off out again,he was very relaxed and slept contentedly throughout the evening,I know Bailey so well,I am sure the vet is right this time,today continues the same way.Baileys numbers started to become low yesterday evening and have continued that way into today.This is where we need your guidance,do we hold this dose? Many thanks Diane & Bailey
 
Diane, while people say pancreatitis is very painful and many cats appear to be in pain, Max doesn't. It's good that Bailey is eating well. Did your vet run an fPL test or is the panc diagnosis based on the US? If the blood test was done, what was the level? I ask but then the level doesn't always go along with how they feel. Others have told me that their cats need more insulin when having a panc attack. I'm too new at this to know with Max. Before diabetes he would become inappetent if his pancreas was angry. It's possible that while Bailey's ' was inflamed, it might have already settled down. I wouldn't feel better if Max were to get a normal reading because the stress of the visit might change it all the next day. Likewise after a day it might return to normal.

Elise
 
If you are following the Tight Regulation protocol, as most are in this forum, kitty earns a reduction if the numbers fall below 50 (2.8). It looks like the low today was 4.5, which is a nice nadir. I noticed you are missing the dose information for this morning on your SS. I presume you gave 4U again?
 
Baileys FPLI test done mid November was 10 ,he was on injected BUPE for a week during the Summer and it appeared to make no difference as he like your Max shows no sigh of pain,That is why vet reluctant to give pain med.
Have just taken Baileys AMPS bg test it's up again at 17.8 after such good low numbers yesterday,I really am confused, is this another bounce,could not get bg before bed test on Bailey last night,he was bad tempered!So decided to give him a rest.Many thanks for taking the time to comment,Diane & Bailey
 
Hi Diane!

Yes, this is a bounce. Bailey's gotten used to higher numbers and his body is reacting to the lower range of numbers now. Here's a link to New Dose Wonkiness and Bouncing that explains what he's got going on. It's the second post down. This is from the "new to the group" yellow starred sticky.

Great job getting the evening tests. I know it can be hard, but we're a data-driven forum and the data is how we base dosing decisions.

I'd hold the dose and wait for the bounce to clear.
 
Thanks Julie,much appreciated,I have read up on the sticky but will read through again,I very much appreciate you keeping eye on Baileys posts,will hold the dose and let's see what today brings.D & B
 
:-D

it's great to see Bailey getting into those lovely green numbers!

It would be helpful if you could start a new post tomorrow. We try to do one per day so they don't get too long and confusing. It's also helpful to have current BGs in the subject line - i confess i just looked at this subject line and thought "why am i telling her about bouncing when he's all in the 200's?" and then i realized this subject line is now 6 days old.

Then we link the new day's post with the previous post.

To do that, go to this post (the most recent old one) and copy the URL in the browser address line.

Open a new post and in the posting window, click the "URL" button. It should appear like that in the posting window.

Put your cursor in between the two center brackets[color=#0040FF]paste the old post URL address here[/color], right click and choose paste. hopefully it will end up right!

if that's clear as mud, just ask and we'll try to re-explain. i'm not particularly techy!
 
Thanks Julie,will have a go at starting a new post each day,I am not computer savvy either but will figure it out !
Hope your day is good. D
 
Elsie,forgot to ask are you giving Max digestive enzymes to help with his p'titis? Bailey has been on them for 2 months now and I cannot see any difference,don't want him to be on any med unless it seems beneficial?
Wendy sorry forgot to fill in Baileys units yesterday am (must have been excitement at the bg result) shame it was not to last! I will keep B on the 4 units and see if he settles over the next few days.
Hope all of you in the US have a peaceful nights sleep.
 
Mac doesn't get digestive enzymes. It's my understanding that if a cat had EPI they are helpful but not needed for pancreatitis without EPI. Max only gets ondan fir nausea when he becomes inappetent. Otherwise I don't give him anything. It seems to come and go. He has gone months without showing signs of pancreatic issues and times when he has had to be medicated for months.

Elise
 
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