01/09 Chnoudi- Dental health

[Melita & Chnoudi]

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...1-5-77-6-84-9-70-pmps-93.241069/#post-2714971

Hello everyone!! Have a nice weekend!!

I want to share my anxiety about Chnoudi's dental health.

I'm very happy with her progress, but I am also worried about the fact that she has to eat wet food for her whole life.. She's only 6yrs, so hopefully there are many years forward.
Today, I noticed that there are food remnants on her back teeth and her gums are red there...
It's only 2 months ago that we switched from dry to wet food..It's quite recently!
And I am wondering what is going to happen if I continue feeding wet food for the next years...
I've read about dental cleaning. It that easy to do? Is there a dry food lc that I can use sometimes or it's totally forbidden?
How do you cope with your diabetic cat's teeth issues?
So many questions....

Thank you so much in advance!

 

[Hercule's mum]

Hi Melita,

Have you actually found evidence that wet food is bad for cat's teeth? I am genuinely asking, because I have not done the research myself.

I have been wondering about this because I always fed dry food under the impression it was better for their teeth, but my vet dismissed this idea as a myth?

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

Hi Melita,

Have you actually found evidence that wet food is bad for cat's teeth? I am genuinely asking, because I have not done the research myself.

I have been wondering about this because I always fed dry food under the impression it was better for their teeth, but my vet dismissed this idea as a myth?

Hello!! Yes, my vet told me so, but I can't say that I trust her completely... I have stopped communicating with her after Chnoudi's diagnosis because her advise were totally wrong.
However, it's something I have read about it many times.... I don't know.. I hope it's a myth!!

 

[JaxBenji]

I too fed my cats dry food their whole life (15.5 years...) but was also told by my vet the whole "wet food is bad for teeth" is a myth. Often my kitties wouldn't even chew the food (I knew this because he'd sometimes throw up and there would be whole food pieces). Here's an article that I found posted here in the forum - https://littlebigcat.com/does-dry-food-clean-the-teeth/

For dental health, I believe its recommended to have cats teeth cleaned once a year.

I can't speak to cleaning teeth at home bc I've never done maintenance on my kitties teeth butttt I had Jax at a dental specialist this week (he needs an extraction...) and she mentioned we would talk about home care after surgery.

I'm sure other more experienced folks will be by with thoughts and insight

 

[Hercule's mum]

Someone in this board suggested adding "plaque off" to their food. Not sure if available where you are. It is expensive and I thought it wasn't doing anything, so I stopped using it. I must say thought, that my civvie breath has returned to extremely fishy... so I might buy another one....

 

[Butters & Lyla]

Anecdotally, most vets I've encountered over the years have dismissed dry food as being better for teeth as a myth.

Butters has a dental (at the vet's) every 1 - 2 years. She is almost ten years old and has only ever eaten wet food since I got her almost six years ago. Still has all her teeth. To clarify: She lost one tooth in a klutzy accident, which doesn't count. Clean knocked it right out.
I have not been able to brush her teeth at home. Some cats can be trained to accept it, though!
Your vet should check Chnoudi's teeth at her annual checkup and determine if there are signs of periodontal disease and when a dental cleaning is required.

I had two civvies who ate prescription dry food for their entire 16 year lives. They started losing their teeth long before they turned ten years old. They continued to eat dry food without any teeth because they don't even really chew it up.

I personally wouldn't worry about feeding wet food to a cat for their whole life, if you're comparing it to a dry food diet as the alternative. The dry food will do more harm than good and won't help her teeth, in my opinion.

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

Thank you all very much!!! I feel so much better now!
This is enough! I have to find a new vet as soon as possible!
It's true @JaxBenji I just remembered I've noticed this in her vomits too, in the past! Whole kibbles... The article is amazing, so many useful information!!!
@Hercule's mum you are right about these "plague off" products, I've read about them. After a web-research I found out that there are many products on sale in Greece, dental gels, plague-off sprays, pastes e.t.c. I'll have all these in my mind!
@Butters & Lyla thank you, you made my day with all these information! I know that dry food is not good for them and offers nothing..I don't thing that Chnoudi will let me brush her teeth too! Hhaaha She barely let me open her mouth. But it worths trying !

 

[Tomlin]

But it worths trying !

I want to encourage you to keep trying to brush the teeth—even 2-3x week vs every day . The little rubber, thimble looking brushes are more controlled and often easier for a cat that doesn’t want to open its mouth (unless they will try to chomp you &’in that case get the long handled one) Even some quick sweeps across the teeth helps by knocking off any wet food that can sit there. It doesn’t have to be a long, daunting process to be helpful.

Now, if only I could teach T to do a nice swish to rinse his mouth after eating we would be set !

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

I want to encourage you to keep trying to brush the teeth—even 2-3x week vs every day . The little rubber, thimble looking brushes are more controlled and often easier for a cat that doesn’t want to open its mouth (unless they will try to chomp you &’in that case get the long handled one) Even some quick sweeps across the teeth helps by knocking off any wet food that can sit there. It doesn’t have to be a long, daunting process to be helpful.

Wow thank you for the encouragement! I ll have to try so! I found many types of tooth brushes online, I should test which one is better suited for us. I didn't even know there are so many products available for dental care!!!

Now, if only I could teach T to do a nice swish to rinse his mouth after eating we would be set

Hahahaha indeed!! I wish I could do this too

 

[Tomlin]

Wow thank you for the encouragement! I ll have to try so! I found many types of tooth brushes online, I should test which one is better suited for us. I didn't even know there are so many products available for dental care!!!

Hahahaha indeed!! I wish I could do this too

YES—it is like the toy search! I have the drawer that is the land of misfit aka rejected toys & another area with the fabulous toothbrush collection. I have 5 cats & of course, what works for one is not going to work for another & then on any given day (like with food sometimes), they decide they don’t like the same one anymore. Nothing like the “what is THAT?” to something that has been used many times........they like to keep it interesting!!

 

[tiffmaxee]

My vet did tell me that switching to all wet food would make it necessary to get their teeth cleaned more often. I think the reason being that many don’t chew the dry food. In the past when my cats that were fed both would vomit u dry pieces that looked exactly as they looked when poured into the bowl. I guess if they barely chew it, it won’t stick to their teeth and keep them clean. I keep saying I need to try brushing. It’s important if you do to get the gums more so than the teeth I was told.

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

YES—it is like the toy search! I have the drawer that is the land of misfit aka rejected toys & another area with the fabulous toothbrush collection. I have 5 cats & of course, what works for one is not going to work for another & then on any given day (like with food sometimes), they decide they don’t like the same one anymore. Nothing like the “what is THAT?” to something that has been used many times........they like to keep it interesting!!

Hahahaa you are sooo right!

 

[Tomlin]

I guess if they barely chew it, it won’t stick to their teeth and keep them clean. I keep saying I need to try brushing. It’s important if you do to get the gums more so than the teeth I was told.

Exactly! Yes, aim for the lower part (or upper on the top of course) of the teeth toward the gum line. Say “ahhhhhh”....IF ONLY

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

when my cats that were fed both would vomit u dry pieces that looked exactly as they looked when poured into the bowl

Yeees Chnoudi did the same!! The first time I saw it, I thought I was due to her greed, but I was wrong.

It’s important if you do to get the gums more so than the teeth I was told.

Wow the struggle is real. As it seems your vet is well trained, congrats to her

 

[Sue and Luci]

Luci doesn't have many teeth left, due to extractions - however for the teeth she does have she gets an annual cleaning...and no, she will not allow me to brush her teeth - that girl has her own mind about some things...I'm lucky she cooperates with the testing..maybe if I tried brushing her teeth every day and gave her treats afterward she'd warm up to the idea...but sheesh...I have a couple of other things on my plate...I'm lucky I can test as often as I do. Dry food doesn't do anything for their teeth - that's a total myth.

Looks like you've gotten some great advice from the wise one's above

 

[Frogster]

There are videos on YouTube on teaching cats to tolerate brushing their teeth at home. The key, I believe, is to introduce it very slowly but persistently. Many suggest using just a clean cloth wrapped around your finger instead of a brush. I found it comfortable and effective.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

My vet did tell me that switching to all wet food would make it necessary to get their teeth cleaned more often. I think the reason being that many don’t chew the dry food. In the past when my cats that were fed both would vomit u dry pieces that looked exactly as they looked when poured into the bowl. I guess if they barely chew it, it won’t stick to their teeth and keep them clean. I keep saying I need to try brushing. It’s important if you do to get the gums more so than the teeth I was told.

Budge eats wet food and Bandit is a kibble addict. When we had their dental done in October, the vet said Bandit's teeth were in better shape! Maybe you are right in that wet food could stick to gums and teeth while kibble is swallowed whole!

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

Luci doesn't have many teeth left, due to extractions - however for the teeth she does have she gets an annual cleaning...and no, she will not allow me to brush her teeth - that girl has her own mind about some things...I'm lucky she cooperates with the testing..maybe if I tried brushing her teeth every day and gave her treats afterward she'd warm up to the idea...but sheesh...I have a couple of other things on my plate...I'm lucky I can test as often as I do. Dry food doesn't do anything for their teeth - that's a total myth.

Looks like you've gotten some great advice from the wise one's above

Yes Chnoudi is not going to tolerate any touch in her mouth, although I will try!. BUt I agree with you in the testing part ! I'm totally grateful she lets me test her whenever I want. It is something I did't expect in the begining! I wish I could use snacks too...But with wet food, I don't have this choice .
Yeees, Im so happy that so many people had something useful to tell me and made me feel calm.

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

There are videos on YouTube on teaching cats to tolerate brushing their teeth at home. The key, I believe, is to introduce it very slowly but persistently. Many suggest using just a clean cloth wrapped around your finger instead of a brush. I found it comfortable and effective.

Wow really interesting and it seems much easier!! I have to try it!! Thank youu!

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

Budge eats wet food and Bandit is a kibble addict. When we had their dental done in October, the vet said Bandit's teeth were in better shape! Maybe you are right in that wet food could stick to gums and teeth while kibble is swallowed whole!

I am thinking that maybe some cats are more vulnerable than others....Today, I also checked the mouth of my non-diabetic male cat. It was absolutely clean and healthy and he eats wet food since Chnoudi does!

 

[Bandit's Mom]

I am thinking that maybe some cats are more vulnerable than others....Today, I also checked the mouth of my non-diabetic male cat. It was absolutely clean and healthy and he eats wet food since Chnoudi does!

It's the same with diabetes. Both my cats are the same age and have eaten HC dry kibble all their life and only Bandit got diabetes!

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

It's the same with diabetes. Both my cats are the same age and have eaten HC dry kibble all their life and only Bandit got diabetes!

Unfortunately... Mine too... Chnoudi is very fragile, in comparison to the cats I 've always had.

 

[tiffmaxee]

I have two I got at 10 weeks and are siblings but couldn’t be more different except that they both love to eat.

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

I have two I got at 10 weeks and are siblings but couldn’t be more different except that they both love to eat.

hahaha

 

[Gill & George]

Hi Melita,
Chnoudi is looking good

I've used the plaque off on my dogs since they were little, they are 8 now, and they haven't needed a dental, they have a wet diet too.
Recently with them though I've started using dehydrated cows ears which they chew on and this is doing an even better job.
I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that dry food keeps their teeth clean, I Seem to remember that there was something on Dr lisas site about using chewy natural stuff to help keep teeth clean..... I'll see if I can find it.

I tried using the plaque off with the cats, but it's complicated with the four of them and they keep swapping dishes, never sure if they are getting too much or too little.

Georges teeth got bad on a kibble diet....
I also (before he was diabetic) tried the dentibites, he used to swallow those whole, so I don't think those dental treats work.

 

[Gill & George]

from https://catinfo.org/#Dental_Disease
Dental Disease: Long-standing claims that cats have less dental disease when they are fed dry food versus canned food are grossly overrated, inaccurate, and are not supported by studies. This frequently stated (among veterinarians and lay people) myth continues to harm cats by perpetuating the idea that their food bowls need to be filled up with an unhealthy diet in order to keep their teeth clean.

The idea that dry food promotes dental health makes about as much sense as the idea that crunchy cookies would promote dental health in a human.

First, dry food is hard, but brittle, and merely shatters with little to no abrasive effect on the teeth. Second, a cat’s jaws and teeth are designed for shearing and tearing meat – not biting down on dry kibble. Third, many cats swallow the majority of their dry food whole.

There are many factors – known and unknown – that contribute to dental disease cats such as genetics, viruses, diet, and the fact that cats do not brush their teeth like humans do. There remain many unanswered questions concerning the fact that cats often suffer from poor dental health but one very obvious answer lies in the fact that humans feed cats a diet that does not even come close to what they would eat in their natural state.

When cats consume their prey in the wild, they are tearing at flesh, hide, bones, tendons, and ligaments. This is a far cry from the consistency of dry or canned food.

Neither dry kibble nor canned food comes close to mimicking a cat’s normal diet of mice, birds, rabbits, etc. Given what a cat does eat in nature, it makes much more sense to be feeding part of the diet in the form of large chunks of meat (as large as you can get your cat to chew on) or gizzards (tough and fibrous) which a cat’s teeth are designed to chew. Raw meat is ‘tougher’ to chew than cooked meat so I prefer to use raw meat – or lightly baked to kill the surface bacteria – to promote dental health. See Making Cat Food – Dental Health.

Notice the phrase “part of the diet” in the above sentence. It is very important to understand that plain meat (ie – without bones or another source of calcium) is very unbalanced since there is minimal calcium in meat. Remember that when a cat eats his normal prey, he is consuming the bones along with the meat.

When fed as a supplement to most commercial canned foods, it is safe to feed ~15 – 20% of the daily calories in the form of plain meat. For example, if a cat is eating 6 ounces of canned food per day, you could feed him 5 ounces of canned food plus 1 ounce of chunked muscle meat per day.

When people ask me “how often should my cats be fed chunks of meat?”, I reply “how often do you brush your own teeth?”

And speaking of brushing teeth, this is, by far, the best way to promote your cat’s dental health. See this video for more information.

Please pay close attention to the statement in the video regarding a thorough dental exam by your veterinarian before starting a brushing program.

 

[Melita & Chnoudi]

Thank you very much @Gill & George ! This article is a masterpiece! Mine swap bowls too, even though they are eating the same food and the same quantity! I'll have to keep a closer look at Chnoudi while she's eating, if I ever use a plague off product...! I 'll try brushing her teeth soon!

he used to swallow those whole, so I don't think those dental treats work.

hahaha I love him!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I used to feed Neko 1 inch pieces of raw chicken necks, or the very end of the wing tips. It was small enough but still gave her a chance to tear at her food. When she got her CKD diagnosis and I needed to change to lower phosphorus, I switched to chicken gizzards, dunked quickly in boiling water. I've also cleaned teeth with a small piece of gauze (as per my vet) or a baby face cloth.