01/07 Webber AMPS 157-- PM No Shot

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Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

Are u home for the morning to monitor? U had some good starting dose suggestions yesterday, will u be going with what was suggested?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

I don't know if it is safe to start with 0.5-1unit with him already at 157.

Sorry if I sound rude. Webber was not happy to be tested this morning due to yesterday at the vet. And of course my vet office is not open yet. Since I will not be here to watch him I am afraid to shoot at a level of 157. Last night at 11pm is was 100.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

dont be sorry - breath thou - lol

when do you have to leave? how much time before u have to leave?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

I have to leave in 15min. nailbite_smile

Thank you I need to breathe.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

Someone will be along shortly, but it seems to me that the dose is pretty high there. Are you familiar with the Tilly Protocol? If not, go ahead and read through it.

One of the things that the Tilly protocol teaches is that a slow increase starting from a low dose is the way to find the right dose for the cat - the dose which will hold kitty in a good set of numbers for the longest period of time; and that dose which will give the pancreas a break, allow it to heal, and to try to move forward in insulin production. Here's a link to the protocol: http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

Are you familiar on how to treat hypoglycemia (dangerously low blood sugar)? Do you have a "kit" ready? Here's a link about it: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1122

How are you feeding Webber? There are some very good arguments about giving a wet food only diet, and some links about that are:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=115

I love that you're hometesting, and that you've got a spreadsheet set up. But I really love that you're here and asking for help. This board does help - a LOT - and sometimes is able to teach our vets a thing or two. LOL.

And a big welcome to you...hang in, help is coming. Read through the above, and read it again...and then ask all the questions you'd like. This is a very well populated board, with tons of experience and "been there, done that" help, and lots of great hints.

Best-
Michele
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

Sorry if I sound rude. Webber was not happy to be tested this morning due to yesterday at the vet. And of course my vet office is not open yet. Since I will not be here to watch him I am afraid to shoot at a level of 157. Last night at 11pm is was 100.
Click to expand...

Last night when you measured the 100, did you give insuliln after that (if so how much)? If you did not give insulin last night after the 4U at the vets then your 100 is not PMPS it is +12 and this AMPS of 157 is +24 (24 hours after last dose of insulin).

Since you can't be home to watch him, I would think depending on if this 24 hours after insulin or just 12.....If you gave him insulin last night I would give that dose again (1U or .5U), If you did not give insulin last night and this 157 is 24 hours without insulin, I would probably skip the dose this AM and see where he is at tonight.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

To be on the safe side I would shoot .5u or nothing. Half a unit may be too little but you are walking out the door and you want Webber safe.
4u is way to much. I would write more here but I want to catch you before you shoot or leave.
Great job on testing.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

Sorry just saw you do have a spreadsheet. You did not give insulin since yesterday at the vet (4 units). I would skip the shot this AM too if you can be home until after +6 or so. See what he has this evening and you can start over with a more reasonable dose (maybe .5U?)
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

Whatever u shoot or not - I'm pretty sure u wont go back to the vet's dose - but do leave plenty of food available
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

I did not give him any insulin last night. He is going on 24 hours post 4 units from yesterday.

I am feeding him 100% wet food from Binky's list.

Thank you!!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

Ladies - thank you. I would feel best not shooting this morning since I won't be here until this evening. And since you all seem to feel the same way, that makes me feel much better!!

Darn work :-x
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

Paige:

I don't believe you shot last night since your vet told you to dose once a day.

I would encourage you to follow Jill's advice and shoot 1.0 units twice a day. IMHO, I don't think you have enough data to give a shot this morning if you aren't there to monitor. I agree with Monique's logic. Would you be OK with essentially starting over this evening with a shot of 1.0u? At least this will buy you some time for some of our more experienced Lantus users to help you come up with a plan.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

yea, I'd feel better if you began when u know u'll be home to monitor, even thou it is a small dose, there isn't a lot of data yet, I'm glad ur ok with those suggestions.

Still breathing?
have a good day and we'll see u tonight!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

That is a fine idea. Gives time for the 4u to clear out, see where his numbers are, then decide what might be a better starting dose for Webber.
It is stressful to walk out the door on a newly diagnosed kitty after shooting and safety is number one concern.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

You all have been so great with me this morning. Much thanks----hugs and purrs from me and Webber. I am already running late, but I am not shooting this morning. I will see you tonight with this PM level.

Have a great day and wherever you are----stay warm!!!!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

if u can can u clear ur HELP alert in your subject title?

see u then!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

Monique & Spooky said:
Sorry if I sound rude. Webber was not happy to be tested this morning due to yesterday at the vet. And of course my vet office is not open yet. Since I will not be here to watch him I am afraid to shoot at a level of 157. Last night at 11pm is was 100.
Click to expand...

Last night when you measured the 100, did you give insuliln after that (if so how much)? If you did not give insulin last night after the 4U at the vets then your 100 is not PMPS it is +12 and this AMPS of 157 is +24 (24 hours after last dose of insulin).

Since you can't be home to watch him, I would think depending on if this 24 hours after insulin or just 12.....If you gave him insulin last night I would give that dose again (1U or .5U), If you did not give insulin last night and this 157 is 24 hours without insulin, I would probably skip the dose this AM and see where he is at tonight.
Click to expand...

For anyone I know what I wrote was confusing, I was hurrying because she needed an answer quick. I wanted to explain my logic and why I asked this. After I wrote it I noticed her SS link and looked at it which told me the answer, that 157 is actually +24

Had she gotten that 100 measurement as PMPS last night and had given the dose suggested by Jill or someone (.5U or 1U BID) on a preshot of 100 and she had just 157 this morning, even without a spot check or knowing the nadir, it is safe to think that he probably didn't go very low because there wasn't much bounce, so the dose was probably ok. However as the shed gets built up after a few more doses and the overlap continues it is likely that it would be too much after a few days.
If (as it turns out is the case) that the AMPS of 157 is actually +24 then we do know that at least the 4U dose is now wearing off (he's rising) but we don't know how much he will continue to rise, and how much a dose of say .5U could drop him. It's likely that by evening he will be back up there in the higher numbers but she has little risk of ketones (this cat is some 1 week Dx'd without insulin and has been mostly under 300) and this mornings 157 is still under the kidney/organ damage limit so leaving him without insulin though not ideal is IMO safer since she can't be there, and this evening we will have an empty shed and non insulin number to base decisions on for a good dose recommendation, esentially starting over from scratch.

I'm wondering where the vet got the notion to start at 4U! I thought paige was testing at home and trying a diet change to see if that helped before insulin, and her measurements are all under 300, even under vet stress before the insulin he was just over 350. If based on weight Webber must be one BIG cat

4U/.25U per Kg IDEAL weight=16 Kg (35 lbs.) !

Anyway that's over and she is not going to be shooting 4U right away anyway. I hope she has a good day and comes home to a happy cat with good BG numbers.

Is my thinking here somewhat logical ?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

lol Monique - I see logic, but it sounds better coming from u lol
35 lbs kitty? gosh I hope not!
Paige, we really wanna know Webber's weight, it should be noted in ur vet paperwork.
And yes - to a happy kitty when u get home! cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot? HELP

paige said:
This is my first morning. My vet started Webber yesterday at 4units. His AMPS is 157.
Click to expand...

And he went steadily down to 100 at +15....when are these vets gonna get a clue???? cat(2)_steam If she had shot the dose he recommended last night...well you can imagine where Webber would be today. grr_red

My own vet started Morris at 3 units (at least it was BID) but I found out better info here and only shot it a few times. Imagine if we weren't testing! It just makes me so mad angry(2)_cat that they get away with these errors and aren't accountable....off soapbox now. :oops:

Paige - I am so glad you found us! A warm welcome! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Monique,

That makes perfect sense to me. Webber only weighs 12.5lbs! It still boggles my mind that she started at 4units. I even had my spreadsheet there with him so that she could see what his numbers were at home.

With his level this morning at 157 I was curious what the vet would suggest I give, so I called.....she said (spoken to me through the tech) not to give him anything today and that since I do not want to bring him in again, I should do another curve on Saturday with 3 units! :evil:

I originally wanted to start the injections at home, but the vet was pretty insistant that I start there at the clinic. Being new to the whole feline diabetes thing, I agreed and made the appt. However, I will not be doing that again! I do not want to bad-mouth my vet but I think that I am going to have to look elsewhere. Having a sick kitty requires a good relationship with the vet, and the vet needs to be available for questions and concerns. She first suspected the diabetes on December 9th, but suggested that I try the Purina DM for two weeks to see if diet alone would help. Exactly two weeks later was when it was decided he did have diabetes; so I consider that Webber's official diagnosis date (12/23/09) Since then, I have only spoken with her once (over the phone), and that was after I requested to speak with her directly.

Since I found this message board I have switched all four of my babies to 100% canned food and freeze dried treats. Webber's BG levels did start to drop once I made the switch, but I was concerned about waiting on the injections for fear that he would never heal. In other words, the longer I waited the less likely he could go into remission.

I am so glad to have all of you. The support I have gotten is amazing and always encouraging.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

OH MY!!! (hitting my head on the wall beside me) lol insanity I tell's ya! 4 and now 3 u's for a 12lb kitty? :o
If your vet can't even take a minute out of their day to speak with you - yup - time to shop around. Many of us here had to do that among many other reasons as well, good for you Paige!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Oh Ronnie---I forgot to say...

When I went to pick up Webber last night the vet had already left. AND no one showed me how to give the injection or if I should feed before or after the injection.

I am smart enough to ask them this, but I so was overwhelmed with everything. I did not even realize until I got home that no one showed me or told me!!!!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Paige,

I totally understand what you are feeling. Actually everyone here understands!

When Maui was diagnosed, I brought her to the vet to learn what to do and how to do it. The vet (now former vet) told me that I had to keep Maui there for at least 2/3 days for her to get "regulated".

I complied not knowing any better. This vet also recommended DM, which I said no.

I came home got on the board and told the people here what was going on.

Vet shot 1 unit (lantus) around 10:00 am. I called all day with questions - thanks to the peeps here and learned that she was going to shoot the next 1 unit at 5:30, why because the office closed at 6 and they needed to finish up and leave. Also, the place is unmonitored overnight. I told her NO, I won't allow this. Vet told me to take her to 24 hour place then.

I brought her home instead and made an appointment for the next morning with a different office. (I spent the entire day calling all the vets in my area to find out how they treat FD). I called 6 places until getting to this one that said, while yes they agree with the vet's process, they will work with me however I want as long as it's in the best interest of the cat.

While the previous vet didn't shoot 4 units, like yours, the previous vet was practicing a dangerous protocol by not shooting in a 12 hour time frame. Anything could have happened to Maui overnight and I would not have known AND been helpless to do anything about it.

I will never allow myself to feel like that again or put my cats in that kind of dangerous care.

I changed vets and am very happy that I did so. The new vet (there are 10 in the office), always calls me back when I phone about something. I just called today about another cat and was told the vet wasn't in today, did I want to speak with someone else.

It's important to have a good working partnership with the vet and if you feel uncomfortable asking questions or even questioning a procedures, then this is not the right place for you. You should never be made to feel bad about wanting what is best for your animal and asking questions/getting answers so that you clearly understand what is going on.

So, maybe it's worth taking some time, calling the vets in your area and asking them about their protocol in handling FD AND clients who ask questions.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Welcome & glad you didnt shoot till things are clear & you can be home to test!! Your cat's numbers are not that high so, the dose your vet gave was Off The Charts---We here study this illness, test, check the latest info,and share with all the others on board here-- The knowledge here is vast and you will learn sooooo much here...More is known about FD here than anywhere else--Glad you found us!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Wow, what a first 24 hours for you :) Glad you didn't shoot. Let's see where Webber is when you get home.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Wow, we need a "boot-to-the-head" emoticon for vets like this....
chair.gif

(this'll do)
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

MJ, perfect smilie!

Paige, welcome. My vet (former vet) also started Kitty on one shot per day. I wasn't as smart as Hillary, and it took me months to figure out how bad that was for Kitty.

Starting at 4 units seems very high to me, though I am no expert. The protocol here -- starting low and working up to the correct dose -- has worked well for so many cats.

You're doing a fine job for Webber. He's lucky that you've found FDMB and are so committed to his care. He'll do great!

:-D
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Thank you Kathy.

MJ - that is a purrfect emoticon!!!

LOVE IT!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

How are you doing, Paige? All the action is over in Nicole's condo! :mrgreen: When are you scheduled for another check?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

LOL I think Webber is gonna keep us guessing Paige. I am so glad you came to LL to get up to the second advice this morning, because had I seen it, I would have told you not to shoot as well..considering you were on your way out the door to work. Awesome job you're doing girl, keep up the great work!

LL people.. think she'd be pretty safe starting at 1/2u?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Hi Kathy and Carolyn!

Yes it is scary over in Nicole and Baby's condo. My eyes have been on since I first saw the +3 reading. But she is doing GREAT! And thanks to all of you "angels" I know she feels better. It sure did make me feel better this morning.

I am schedule to get Webber's PMPS at about 6pm CST. We shall see if he is going to work with me, lol.

I am thinking 0.5units as well tonight (depending on his BG). Better to start low right? This is going to be a challenge, but I am dead set on getting him regulated and hopefully into remission.

At least tomorrow is Friday and if I have to stay up tonight to spot check---I can take it for one day :mrgreen: dancing_cat
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

By any chance are u home right now to test at +11.5? that's half an hour before PMPS time.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Carolyn and Spot said:
LL people.. think she'd be pretty safe starting at 1/2u?
Click to expand...

i do ! :-D

we can always re-adjust the dose as you collect data.
good luck with the new dose!
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Paige,

sorry I'm going to bold this..lol we don't want a repeat here k?

DO YOU HAVE A PIC OF THE .5u?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Hi Paige -

I just posted on the Main Board to you. Just wanted to say...glad you went here this morning and asked the questions you did.

Welcome to Lantus Land :-D
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

You are too funny Ronnie! Yes I will be looking at that pic up close before tonight shot. lol The +11.5 won't be for another hour for me here in Texas. And I am just about to leave to go home. I will upate as soon as I torture Webber with another ear stick (jk).

Thank you Amy. I already feel at home here in LL.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Paige, just so you don't have to go looking....here is your own copy of the 0.5 unit dose.

half-unit-Lantus.jpg
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157 Can't get PMPS

For those of you wondering where I have been. I have been trying to get a BG reading from Webber. He is not happy at all and neither is mommy. Even my DH tried but just couldn't get a good stick. I won't give him any insulin without getting a BG reading.

I think after yesterday he needs a break. He is in such angry mode and I do not want him to associate any of this with something bad and painful. When I stick his ears sometimes he whines--but most often today because he is tired and stressed from all the poking yesterday from strangers.

What do you think about me trying again tomorrow?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

Hi Paige and Webber!
Welcome to Lantus land.
Sorry I only have a few minutes right now, but I wanted to stop by and welcome you.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

I understand. You don't want BG testing to be a continual struggle for both of you. Webber was not scary high this morning, actually most of his random tests were not that bad and have improved since you changed foods. I don't think one more night of rest (for all of you) will be a problem.
 
Re: Lancets

What gauge are the lancets you are using? The finer gauge ones (like 31 or 32 gauge) don't make a large enough bead IMO. I like the 28 gauge ones and actually I use them for awhile and they get better as they get duller....sounds terrible but Morris doesn't seem to notice.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

I bought 33 gauge lancets. They are really small, I just think I am not doing it quickly enough. My hubby suggested I try to use the pen to test his ear because it punctures very quickly.

What are you all doing? Lancet only or pens for testing? And are you using ears or pads or both?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157---new do I shoot?

I do free hand, found it much easier. Since switching to Accuchek softclix I found it almost gets too much blood..but works well as a newbie
Before this, I used the ones that match my meter & they were 26 gauge..not sure what the ones are that i am using now..it is not on the box.
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157 & PMPS couldn't get one!

Hi Paige

just a little editing...
in ur title subject line, since u did not shoot tonight, can u change that to read "PM no test" that way we know you havent shot, as we know u will start tomorrow right?
 
Re: 01/07 Webber AMPS 157 & PMPS couldn't get one!

Hi Paige. Those 33 gauge lancets are quite small and make a tiny hole, maybe too tiny to get enough blood. I use 31 gauge.

I always use the lancet clicker pen. I cannot jab quickly enough when free-handing just the lancet. I tried that the first day of home testing and that was the only time BigMac winced and cried when I poked. So I never tried that again. For ME, the pen clicker works the best. The one I have has a clear end cap so I can see where I'm pressing against the ear and not miss (and stick myself.)

Others use just the lancet and prefer that method. Often they try to go in at a very slight angle instead of straight down. Whatever works the best for you and your kitty is the 'best' way.
 
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