01/04 Ivana +2=360, +7=326, PMPS=124, +2=85, +3=90, +4=97, +7=162 still no poop VET UPDATE=CKD :-(

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tara & Ivana (GA)

Tara & Ivana (GA)

Member Since 2015
Yesterday's poopless post

Ivana did pretty good through the PM cycle last night, given that she only got 1.0u instead of 1.75u. She reached a yellow at +8 and was a low pink at AMPS this morning, but I'm happy with that considering all she would eat was MC food.

This morning she appears back to her old self, minus the poop. When the alarm went off, she jumped up onto the bed for her test, was purring, and then followed me to the kitchen for breakfast which she ate - human tuna in springwater with a little bit of mashed pumpkin. However, she's decided after one try last night that the pumpkin is not worthy of her tastebuds, and ate around it this morning. She actually used her paw to push the pumpkin to one side so it wouldn't contaminate the tuna haha! Smart kitty. She ate all her tuna and even went back for more only to be disappointed that her bowl only contained pumpkin.

Because she ate a normal breakfast, I gave her a normal shot of 1.75u. If she ends up vomiting again, I will deal with the low as we did yesterday. Paws crossed for no vomiting though!

If she hasn't pooped by the time the vet opens, I'll be calling to make an appointment for her. Will keep you all updated.
 
GTS said:
never have so many people around the world been waiting with baited breath for a cat to poop
Click to expand...
I know right? She's famous haha!

Someone suggested Miralax as a daily addition to food. After some quick searching, we can't get it here in Australia. It seems that the equivalent is something called OsmoLax which has the exact same formula, so I will pick some up to use as a preventative after this bout gets sorted.
 
carfurby said:
How smart to push the pumpkin out of the way. I always mixed it in Furball's food.
Click to expand...
I considered that, but I was worried she wouldn't eat any of it if I did that. She's like a child sometimes with her food. Last night I mixed a little olive oil into one of her servings, and she turned her nose up at that. So fussy!
 
More poop vines coming from New Jersey! I know...this group is amazing when it comes to cat poop - I'm sure the outside world would think we're nuts! I don't know if you've met Detective Poo and Inspector Crapdash yet (Anne and Liz, Zener's beans), but they often make rounds and hand out golden poo awards when they are earned. Only in L&LL!

I'm glad Ivana is feeling better today...hopefully poop will follow shortly. And yes, it cracked me up that she pushed that nasty ole pumpkin out of her way...kitties are so smart!
 
In Canada, Miralax is called Restoralax. The pharmacy might even have a no name brand equivalent.

Some kitties prefer squash to pumpkin. Don't know if you can get babyfood pureed butternut squash there as one option.
Here come the vines for Ivana:
dancing_poop.gif
 
Well I don't know what's changed from 3 hrs ago, but now she likes pumpkin again. She's a nutcase. Anyway, she's just eaten about 2 tsp of it (the very same pumpkin she shoved out of the way this morning). How long does it take to work? Wondering if I should wait a bit before taking her to the vet, to see if it works?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Is she still trying to poop in the LB.?
Click to expand...
Have not noticed her going to the litter tray since yesterday morning. Yesterday afternoon and evening she was on the lounge the whole time, she might have tried during the night with no success though. Have not noticed any attempts this morning yet. Oh, last night there was wee, so that's good.
 
Doodles & Sour Pea said:
Sorry if I missed it but when was the last time she pooped?
Click to expand...

We changed her litter tray on Saturday evening. On Sunday morning was when we first noticed she was having trouble going, but there was already some poops in the tray from overnight. It's now just after 9am on Monday morning so it's been at least 24hrs, depending on what time the Saturday overnight poops were.
 
Keep doing the pumpkin and I'd give her another cycle (a few feedings) to see if she goes unless you notice something wrong.
 
Tara & Ivana said:
We changed her litter tray on Saturday evening. On Sunday morning was when we first noticed she was having trouble going, but there was already some poops in the tray from overnight. It's now just after 9am on Monday morning so it's been at least 24hrs, depending on what time the Saturday overnight poops were.
Click to expand...
Are you sure she is constipated.? If she did a poop on Saturday night, that is only 36 hours ago.
Did she look like she was straining to do a poop....they always rise themselves up more in their back legs to do poop?
She might have been trying to wee. Sheba sometimes does that for a few hours....in and out of the LB then eventually she starts going again..
With pumpkin and diarrhoea it works fairly fast, within several hours the poop usually firms up. I have not had the constipation issue (anti jinx) so I don't know..except pumpkin is good for it too.
 
It looked like she was trying to poop yesterday morning, but of course I could be wrong. She has weed last night, so if that was the issue then it has resolved itself and that might be why she's feeling better this morning. But now I'm not sure... I'm just going to take her in anyway I think, just to be sure.
 
Last edited:
Hi Tara
We often are faced with the pooping problem with Gus and he won't touch pumpkin. What works for us is daily probiotics or tsp of plain yogurt and if there is no poop one day next morning 1.8 tsp of miralax.

Vines and prayers for Ivana.
 
VET UPDATE:

Well. That ended up a bit more complicated than I thought. So I told the vet all about Ivana in the last few days - how yesterday she went to the tray several times with no success how when I saw her strain in the litter tray that I wasn't 100% certain she was trying to wee or poop, and that she was even laying down in the tray. I also told her about the vomiting and how it caused a low dive yesterday, and that she didn't want to eat last night. Told her that I've given Ivana Laxapet and pumpkin and no poop yet. She also asked how the diabetes was going, and I told her it was kind of up and down, good days and bad days. She knows we're following TR and is happy for us to do that.

So, to ensure that all bases were covered, she checked for both poop and wee as well as general bloods, and has ordered a fructosamine test. Ivana was quite tender being palpated and there was definitely a big lump of poo in there. She was given subcutaneous fluids to help with hydration as that should help it pass through. Her high glucose lately probably contributed to the dehydration. She said to keep giving the Laxapet and pumpkin, and those with the fluids should unplug her. If she hasn't pooped by tomorrow I have to take her back.

The vet also checked her wee (Ivana weed just as the vet was going to needle a sample, good timing girl!). No blood, so not cystitis which could have caused the straining. She also had an ultrasound to check for kidney stones, all good there. But, and this is not what I was expecting, she is starting to get issues with her kidneys. Her results were not massively above the normal range, but enough to want to start preventative action to ensure it doesn't get worse. So, diet change. No more BFF or Weruva (of course - because I just bought 50-odd tins on special...), she is back to just pet mince, tuna, and the vet gave me two tins of Hills k/d Renal Health wet food to see if she likes it. She said it can be tricky balancing diabetes with renal issues, but that if we work on the diet for the kidneys, then we can just adjust the insulin dosage as needed.

Oh and I need to take in a urine sample tomorrow but I can't remember what that was for.

I've attached the lab work results for this visit (on the left of the document) and the last two visits are on the right (20th August 15 was at diagnosis and then 16th September 14 was for a general check).

Feeling a bit overwhelmed right now and kind of want to bury my head in the sand from all this new information o_O
 

Attachments

(((Tara))) Quite a few of us are facing the dual diagnosis of CKD and FD.:bighug: Ivana's bloods aren't that far off Neko's. Some numbers (BUN) will be worse with dehydration. I'm surprised not to see an SDMA test, which I thought was available in Oz and a new test used as an indicator of kidney function.

Another site for you of course: http://www.felinecrf.org/ It also contains a list of foods. Your Weruva may be fine, check out the catinfo page food chart. You want selections that are good quality protein and phosphorus below 200. The BFF are a bit high. A lot of the ones with fish are higher in phosphorus. You can return the KD, it's too high in carbs for now. Or save it for HC (27%). Neko is on raw food, low phosphorus diet. So is Sheba (@Bron and Sheba ), so the mince may be good. I had to stop buying the commercial raw chicken I was using because it has ground bone so a bit high on phosphorus. Choose raw/mince that have eggshell calcium instead of bone. I do a premix with meat as well.

The urine sample, get a morning one if possible, is to test the urine specific gravity. That will help indicate how well Ivana's kidneys are concentrating her urine.

You can do this! :bighug::bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I'm surprised not to see an SDMA test, which I thought was available in Oz and a new test used as an indicator of kidney function.
Click to expand...
The vet mentioned there was a new test available - she knew it was for dogs, but is checking to see if it's for cats as well. That might be it?

Wendy&Neko said:
You can return the KD, it's too high in carbs for now.
Click to expand...
I've just had a look at the Hills nutrition page, and the k/d is 35.4% carbs dry. I've sent them a message to ask what it is as fed, as the first ingredient is water.

Far out, just when I thought I had the FD figured out with what to do (even if Ivana didn't do what I wanted her to do), it just goes and gets more complicated. Sigh... We just do what we can do, right? I will check out those links, thanks Wendy. I have tomorrow off work so I will spend the day researching.

The good news is that Ivana is high today, so her little ears can recover from all the pokes she got yesterday.
 
There are so many kitties with both FD and kidney issues here - the FD is hard on the kidneys and kidney problems are often a consequence of the FD. Hang in there - like everything here, this will also get easier as you learn more. Punkin had the beginnings of kidney problems as well. We turned to subq fluids as a first start and switched to low phos + low carb foods. There are some out there - I don't know what you have there in Australia, but I was looking at every food that had less than 10% carbs and less than 200mg phosphorus.

Just switching his food away from high phos Fancy Feast to low phos foods was enough to put some of his kidney values back into normal range at the next blood test.

Have you seen the post Bron did on foods in Australia?
 
So sorry that it is not the news you were hoping for, but as usual, it looks like there are some amazing people here who are facing the same thing and will help.
Tara & Ivana said:
Sigh... We just do what we can do, right?
Click to expand...

Yes you sure can! You will have an amazing knowledge based support system and then those like me who have not had to face that issue (yet, anti jinx) but totally excellent at moral support :)
 
Thanks everyone for your support, it is really appreciated. I'm going to go through all the links posted here on my day off tomorrow when I'm thinking a bit more clearly, as I'm still feeling pretty awful about it all right now. It's good to know that the two can be treated side by side successfully, obviously we will do whatever we need to do to make it work. I'll be asking a ton more questions no doubt! The vet also mentioned that if we need to do subq fluids regularly at any stage, she can teach us how to do it at home as she knows we are willing and able to do whatever is needed for Ivana.

Ivana is currently laying on the lounge next to me, having spent the last hour grooming the leftover ultrasound gel off her tummy. I mixed a bit more pumpkin into her tuna for lunch, and she's eaten about half of it, no vomiting today.

BUT STILL NO POOP!
 
For what it's worth, Neko often goes two days between poops, and so does the civie. It's quite common on the raw/mince diet. And older kitties.
 
I started to write this just after you posted your news but family turned up and that was that.....they have just left.
Sorry Ivana is starting to get kidney issues. I know when I first found out Sheba had issues I was devastated, but after a meltdown I started to reseach it.
I now give Sheba an adjusted home prepared diet suitable for CRD cats and when she had her blood tests recently, they had not changed in a year....in fact some of them were better.

The Weruva cats in the kitchen has a few cans which are fine for CRD....that is what I give Sheba when I give her tinned food. Look for phosphorus under about 200.
http://weruva.com/catsitk-cans-nutrition.php
Fancy Feast is too high in phosphorus.

For some reason, I can't download Ivana's results.
Yes, we do have the SMDA test here @Wendy&Neko, my vet did Sheba's just before Christmas as part of the routine full blood tests. Not sure why you didn't get it included Tara
If you are interested in what I feed Sheba, let me know and I will tell you. We can't get the supplements needed as a package out here in Aus but I make up my own and it is easy. There is lots you can do to help Ivana.
 
I have managed to download Ivana's results. They were in-house ones by the look of it. I get those done sometimes. That is why you did not get the new SMDA done. That is done when the blood is sent to the outside pathology.
 
Yes the tests were done at the vet, I had the results in about 15mins or so while I waited and then we discussed them. What does the SMDA test show that the others don't? I've got to drop the urine sample back tomorrow, so I can ask to have that test done if it will be helpful. I mean, I'm already broke from today's visit, might as well keep going! :confused:

Bron I would love to know exactly what you feed Sheba - if you have already done all the research about what we have available here, then I may as well benefit from your hard work and do the same. I'm happy to prepare food myself, although commercial stuff is also handy. And I guess it depends on what Ivana likes, too, and how much time we have on any given day.
 
Tara...here's more information on the SMDA test for you

It's a blood test, so the urine isn't used for it

I wonder if your vet wants to do a specific gravity though....that's one that my vet wants to do on China but it has to be first morning urine (preferably)
 
The SMDA test tells you sooner if a cat has kidney issues. Usually when they have about 40% kidney function gone as opposed to 75 % with the current tests.
Sheba's SMDA test came back within normal limits but she has a higher urea and a lower SG ( urine) and protein in her urine so that was a bit strange. Not sure if it is worth getting it done if you already have results that show she has some loss. See what others think.

Will be happy to tell you about Sheba's food. I have to duck our at the moment but will get back to you. Definitely worth doing!
 
Judging by that link, the SMDA test is diagnostic. Not sure what benefit there would be if Ivana has already been diagnosed by the other tests. Will ask the vet about it anyway and see what she thinks.

No rush on the food info Bron.
 
Thinking of Ivana today, and you too, Tara, as you process this new info and work out how to proceed. Glad you have the support of Bron and others here :)
 
Sorry to hear the diagnosis for Ivana, but looks like you are getting plenty of good advice from experienced members. Just wanted to add my poo vines to the pile (no pun intended) and hope things get moving soon. I noticed you tried the olive oil but she wouldn't touch it on her food - trying using one of the plastic oral med syringes and insert it in the side of her mouth and gently (don't squirt it) and slowly press the plunger, giving her about half a teaspoon. Crystal suffers from constipation and it usually works for her. Hang in there Tara :bighug:
 
The SDMA test was included free with my basic Chemistry blood work results from Idexx. I got a mini-chem panel last month and it was on there too. I think the idea is that the SDMA is supposed to be a better indicator of kidney function, but the vets I talked to haven't had enough experience with it to be comfortable with it yet.

Julie mentioned butter - do plain unsalted. Coconut oil is another option to get things going.
 
Thankyou again everyone. I've filled hubby in on everything, we've had a little cry, and I've dedicated tomorrow to doing research to know what we're up against. Knowledge is power, right?

Her PMPS was quite a drop, she cleared that bounce pretty quick. Hubby said she didn't eat much at dinner time, but she ate a bite or two so he still gave her the shot. She ate the rest of her meal (with pumpkin mixed in) at about +1.5. Given that +2 was a bit of a drop, will be testing again at +3 in about 15mins.
 
Thanks for the other suggestions to get things moving. Given that she had some pumpkin with dinner and I also just gave her some more Laxapet not long ago, I won't give her anything else just yet incase it's too much. I might check through the night though and do one of those other things, either the olive or the coconut oil, as we have both of those.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top