01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +8 250 PMPS 421

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Vyktors Mum

Vyktors Mum

Member Since 2011
We had some better looking numbers overnight - yellow and blue ones - and I'm hoping we'll see more blue today. He's also been more active and affectionate this morning than he has been since all this began. :-D and he had his first decent non-constipated poo for a couple of weeks last night! He has had a little vomit this morning but it was just some grass he'd eaten and saliva which he did do occasionally pre-diabetes so I'm not concerned about that.

Quote Sienne: "What meter are you using to test ketones? With a Precision Xtra meter, a reading of 3.0 is equivalent to "trace" ketones on a Ketostix (urine ketone testing strip). We become concerned if ketones are above trace."

I'm using an Optimum Xceed (by Abbot). Did you mean 3.0 or 0.3? Vyktor was 0.7 so if you really meant 3.0 we're probably doing okay then. As long as I'm not meant to divide the 3.0 by 18 to get the world version! Which I probably am :sad: checked my meter booklet and it is talking mmol/L although interestingly it has an mg/dl translation when it talks about blood glucose but doesn't when it talks ketone.

Does anone know what the US measures ketone in?

The booklet says that humans should be below 0.6, if they're between 0.6 and 1.5 with BG higher than 300 (16.7) a problem may be occuring and should see a Dr and over 1.5 at risk of DKA. Not sure if the same applies to cats though.

Will get another ketone test later today when it is warmer. He seems to bleed much better when it's hotter and although he's very good with the tests, he's not a fan of me milking his ear prick for more blood.


yesterday: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=59828&p=649887#p649887
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

I have no input on the measurement question...
but wanted to wish you and Vyktor the happiest of new years!

celi & binks
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

Just had a look at the ketodiastix bottle the mg/dL measurement is one decimal place up from the mmol/L measurement, i.e. 0.7 mmol/L (which was Vyktor's score yesterday) is equivalent to 7 mg/dL - uh oh
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

wow!! I'D PUT "EYES PLEASE" in the subject line of your first post to get some input here...

edited to add: I know next to nothing about ketones...
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

The ketone blood strips do use a different measure than the BG meters. Also, from my reading of Sienne's post and some back channel info, I understand that 3.0 mmoL/l on a blood ketone meter is equivalent to "trace" on a urine ketostix. The information I found on the Precision by Abbott is the same as the Optimum Exceed.....that is, below 0.6 is normal (humans). As long as Vyktor stays below 3.0 mmoL/l, then he has less than a trace of ketones. BUT, it's important to keep checking it (blood ketones) and watching the trend. If it starts to increase, then we need to know....even if it is below 3.0.
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

Vyktors Mum said:
Just had a look at the ketodiastix bottle the mg/dL measurement is one decimal place up from the mmol/L measurement, i.e. 0.7 mmol/L (which was Vyktor's score yesterday) is equivalent to 7 mg/dL - uh oh
Click to expand...
no. you're trying to compare apples to oranges.
a blood ketone reading of 3.0 is approximately when ketones start showing up on ketostix as "Trace".
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

sorry, i just posted on your yesterday's condo too.

serryn, do you add water to vyktor's food? that's good for them, but especially if there are any traces of ketones.
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

also, why aren't we talking about increasing vyktor's dose? he's been on 1.25 for 12 doses and the lowest he's gotten has been in the 90's.

according to the protocol you could increase now by .25. what do you think of that?
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

We use the Precision Xtra to test BBK (beta blood ketones). When Tawny was really sick there were times when she measured all the way to 6.6, maybe 7 at one point. That's bad. Tonight I just tested her, she is .7 mmol/L. That's point seven. Not in the danger zone. It is completely different on the urine stick. Sharyn & Fiona are the true experts here, there are some links to some of her old posts in some of Tawny's condos when Tawny was so sick that really explain it well. I will try to find them for you.

What I learned w/Tawny is indeed what others have said. 3.0 is where the BBK will start to measure "trace" on the pee stick. When Tawny measured 4.6 on the BBK meter the vet ignored me and told me to get a pee stick test, I did and it showed up on the stick as "small". This was an early warning sign that was ignored by the vets and Tawny ended up back in the hospital 3 days later. I don't remember if this was the second or 3rd time.

I would try to get a pee stick test just so you have some comparison, you will know that if Vyktor tests 3.0 on his BBK meter he will test such & such on the stick.

The BBK meter definitely gives you a much better picture of what is going on right now as opposed to the urine ketone stick tests because the urine could have been sitting in the bladder for several hours so those ketones could have been developing all that time and by the time you get the stick test the ketones could actually be much higher. The blood ketone test tells you what is going on RIGHT NOW.

I would definitely watch this number closely, make sure it doesn't rise. Here is what others (Karrie, Sienne) drilled into me about this while Tawny was sick: we fight ketones with insulin and calories. Insulin and calories. Tawny was/is getting high calories wellness chicken and wellness turkey, and of course insulin. the vets wanted me to reduce her dose but I didn't, look how well she is doing now.

Do watch this number, but like Jill said you are trying to compare apples to oranges, don't. I am in the U.S. and my Precision Xtra is measuring the same as yours: mmol/L.

Desi

PS when I read that insert you are talking about I freaked too. I finally threw it away, it is too confusing, b/c 3.0 BBK is "trace" on the urine stick usually.

PSS yes, I think it was Sienne that said to add as much water to Tawny's food as she would tolerate too, water is also very important.

Remember: insulin and calories fight ketones.
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

julie & punkin said:
also, why aren't we talking about increasing vyktor's dose? he's been on 1.25 for 12 doses and the lowest he's gotten has been in the 90's.
Click to expand...
because we don't increase until a bounce clears. it can take up to 72 hours for the bounce to clear.
the bounce should be clearing any time now.
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

Glad the wise ones chimed in...

I panicked a little bit for you...
sorry about that :oops:

celi
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

Jill & Alex said:
julie & punkin said:
also, why aren't we talking about increasing vyktor's dose? he's been on 1.25 for 12 doses and the lowest he's gotten has been in the 90's.
Click to expand...
because we don't increase until a bounce clears. it can take up to 72 hours for the bounce to clear.
the bounce should be clearing any time now.
Click to expand...

:idea: ah!
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

I was getting so confused with how the measurements could be different when they are both mmol (urine and blood) however I think I have just clicked on as to why the measurements are apples and oranges - the /L bit would be different - the urine sticks would be measuring per litre of urine whereas the meter would be testing per litre of blood - does that sound right?

Just tested his blood again and got 0.3 so we have headed in the right direction anyway.

I do add water to his food but he is being a bit of a bugger with it again today, apart from his treats he hasn't eaten for 6 hours and even then it was just a little bit. LC food choices are extremely limited here and I guess he's sick of what's on offer. I know he's hungry because he tried to share my breakfast pancakes. He was most put out that the tradtion of letting him lick the plate is over!

No increase for Vyktor yet because: a) we were waiting for the bounce from low numbers on 12/30 to clear, and b) he has a dental issue for which he was given a convenia shot on 12/31 and I understand that as the AB kicks in and the infection clears his numbers should come down somewhat. Tonight's shot will mark the 72 hr bounce limit and we did see some reduction in his numbers last night. So I'm thinking wait and see what happens in the next 2 cycles as the AB do their work.

Do people agree or think it's already time to increase? I WAS TYPING AT THE SAME TIME OTHERS WERE POSTING I SEE I AM STILL ON TRACK - WITH THIS AT LEAST!

Also need to bear in mind that I am back at work tomorrow. I'm planning to shoot home at lunchtime for a +6 or +7 but won't be able to monitor his BG the way that I have been. Does needing to be at work mean that I'm better off making dose increases on a Friday so that I'm home and able to moitor him closely three days later on Sunday when the full effect should be being seen?
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

mybuddybinks said:
Glad the wise ones chimed in...

I panicked a little bit for you...
sorry about that :oops:

celi
Click to expand...

Don't apologise I was starting to think it was time to panic too! Also I'd much rather be alerted to a problem I may have missed or not realised the significance of and panic unecessarily than not be alerted to something I need to do something about.

Thank you for caring.
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

I think you are wise to wait a couple cycles after the bounce clears to see what he'll do especially if the ABs may have kicked by then. I wouldn't rush to take him up in the morning unless his ketones increase and his BG is really high. If that happens, I would suggest you test a little early and post and ask for help.

While we do want to give him a couple cycles after the bounce clears to see if he'll come down, we want to be cautious about holding a dose if he's high and if his ketone level is rising.
 
Re: 01/02 Vyktor AMPS 454 +4 301

Serryn said:
I'd like to know how you've got Gizmo to enjoy his teeth brushing - champion effort on your part!
Click to expand...
I can sum it up in one word, treats! He got treats for sitting on the kitchen counter and treats for anything even vaguely related to having his teeth brushed. He now will get up on his hind legs and swat at me in the morning to remind me that he would like to have his teeth brushed -- or that he wants treats. He's actually a very smart kitten and he made the association between treats and having his teeth brushed quite easily.

When you raise the dose has a lot to do with your comfort level. You don't really know yet how quickly Vyktor may respond to a dose increase. Some people will increase on a Friday for the AM cycle. Since it can take a cycle for the shed to fill, a response to the increase would then be as early as Friday PM. I've increased Gabby's dose during the week but I can also get a couple of tests in before I leave the house.
 
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