2/3 - Gen, AMPS >400, PMPS >400, inappetence in spite of meds??

[Allie & Gen]

Last post (Saturday)

Bear with me, friends ... I had less than 5 hours of sleep, which is really not good for my cognition or emotional management, and I have a low-grade headache that won't quit.

Yesterday Gen's appetite started failing in spite of the ondansetron and mirataz. He did eventually wind up eating nearly all of his AM food, partially incentivized with a variety of treats (freeze-dried minnows, a Churu), but he barely touched his PM food and we had another fun night of me trying desperately to tempt him with various things with very limited success. No limes this time, thankfully, but he hung out in the lower 50s for hours before finally turning around and shooting up into space.

I wound up giving him some cerenia (around 2AM) for the first time since 1/24, in case the ondansetron wasn't cutting it (different nausea receptors etc). I don't know if that helped, but he did eat more while I was asleep. I think he also may have ... eaten a pat of butter I had on the counter in the kitchen (I was using it to roll his pills in for easier swallowing, and had it out to keep it soft)? I don't know for sure that he did, but I don't know what else could have happened to it.

This morning he was barely eating again. I gave him a half-scoop of dry food, which he was more enthusiastic about, and also gave him a reduced dose of insulin because I had to be in the office today and was worried; even though he's bouncing, I don't know what would happen if he kept not eating! He has gotten up to eat some since (wet and dry) - I have the motion sensor on the camera by his food on. Sometimes his appetite kicks in more fully a little later in the day, lately (I've been guessing that this has to do with the morning ondansetron and gabapentin kicking in).

I don't know what's going on, and there are several variables! My vet had me discontinue using either psyllium husk or Miralax as of Friday evening. (Certainly he's been pooping less since, and the little bits yesterday and today have been small and hard.) I'd been giving him a half dose of mirataz for the previous four days; I increased it back to the full recommended dose last night, though I don't know how long it would/will take for that to affect him. He could have sneakily spat out his ondansetron/gabapentin dose sometime in the last few days ... I try to monitor, and to make sure he swallows, but after I pill him he always wanders away and tries to avoid me and it's not impossible he could manage something. Or this could be something getting worse???

I'm overwhelmed and in a state of sleep-deprived impairment, so it feels like my brain has pretty much hit a wall. Would be grateful for any insight or input. Have also emailed my vet, of course.

Best wishes for calm and pleasant days for all of you - and safe surfs for your kitties.

 

[Jessica & Indy]

Why do our kitties have to be so stressful and stubborn sometimes? Hope your day goes smoothly and Gen gets his act together. *Hugs*

 

[Albert & Xander]

Managing the appetite is by far the hardest part, I know how mentally draining that is Hoping he picks up his appetite and you can catch up on rest later!

 

[Allie & Gen]

Managing the appetite is by far the hardest part, I know how mentally draining that is Hoping he picks up his appetite and you can catch up on rest later!

Has this happened to you? Lack of appetite even on ondansetron and mirataz?

 

[Staci & Ivy]

Last post (Saturday)

Bear with me, friends ... I had less than 5 hours of sleep, which is really not good for my cognition or emotional management, and I have a low-grade headache that won't quit.

Yesterday Gen's appetite started failing in spite of the ondansetron and mirataz. He did eventually wind up eating nearly all of his AM food, partially incentivized with a variety of treats (freeze-dried minnows, a Churu), but he barely touched his PM food and we had another fun night of me trying desperately to tempt him with various things with very limited success. No limes this time, thankfully, but he hung out in the lower 50s for hours before finally turning around and shooting up into space.

I wound up giving him some cerenia (around 2AM) for the first time since 1/24, in case the ondansetron wasn't cutting it (different nausea receptors etc). I don't know if that helped, but he did eat more while I was asleep. I think he also may have ... eaten a pat of butter I had on the counter in the kitchen (I was using it to roll his pills in for easier swallowing, and had it out to keep it soft)? I don't know for sure that he did, but I don't know what else could have happened to it.

This morning he was barely eating again. I gave him a half-scoop of dry food, which he was more enthusiastic about, and also gave him a reduced dose of insulin because I had to be in the office today and was worried; even though he's bouncing, I don't know what would happen if he kept not eating! He has gotten up to eat some since (wet and dry) - I have the motion sensor on the camera by his food on. Sometimes his appetite kicks in more fully a little later in the day, lately (I've been guessing that this has to do with the morning ondansetron and gabapentin kicking in).

I don't know what's going on, and there are several variables! My vet had me discontinue using either psyllium husk or Miralax as of Friday evening. (Certainly he's been pooping less since, and the little bits yesterday and today have been small and hard.) I'd been giving him a half dose of mirataz for the previous four days; I increased it back to the full recommended dose last night, though I don't know how long it would/will take for that to affect him. He could have sneakily spat out his ondansetron/gabapentin dose sometime in the last few days ... I try to monitor, and to make sure he swallows, but after I pill him he always wanders away and tries to avoid me and it's not impossible he could manage something. Or this could be something getting worse???

I'm overwhelmed and in a state of sleep-deprived impairment, so it feels like my brain has pretty much hit a wall. Would be grateful for any insight or input. Have also emailed my vet, of course.

Best wishes for calm and pleasant days for all of you - and safe surfs for your kitties.

Oh Allie, I’m sorry last night was a crappy night. And the appetite is not great even on the meds
How come they had you stop the psyllium and MiraLAX to help Gen poop?

I think it was a good idea to add the Cerenia to the mix, let’s hope that helps
And hoping the Mirataz will inspire Gen to eat better.

Jeez it’s so hard to figure out that to do. Can you offer him some baby food to jump start his interest?

I like to keep a few of those cans of “rescue” foods on hand just for emergencies too (Hills brand from the vet’s office).
They all seem to like that a lot.
Sending you and Gen hugs and vines for a better appetite

 

[Albert & Xander]

Has this happened to you? Lack of appetite even on ondansetron and mirataz?

It hasn't. Mirataz has been fool proof for him. The nausea meds didn't seem to change much when he had that pancreatitis flare, but the fluids from the vet and starting mirataz completely turned things around.

What sort of dose are you giving him now? Also, does he seem dehydrated at all? With Xander's pancreatitis, he wasn't eating thatt poorly but still got pretty dehydrated which is also a factor influencing appetite.

 

[Allie & Gen]

How come they had you stop the psyllium and MiraLAX to help Gen poop?

My vet said it was for elimination (trying to figure out what might be affecting his GI system) - the psyllium seemed to correlate with his instances of inappetence, though it pretty clearly can't have been the sole cause. (And of course, it wasn't in play at all yesterday.) And he's been having such soft poops (almost diarrhea, even with the s.boulardii), I think maybe she thought the Miralax wasn't a great idea either. (But now his poop isn't soft anymore.) I think she was trying to come up with things I could do while I waited for an ultrasound appointment/internal medicine consult? (I'm wondering if I now need to push to get those for him sooner, at higher cost. Argh. And by "push", I mostly mean myself; she'll support what I choose.)

I think it was a good idea to add the Cerenia to the mix, let’s hope that helps
And hoping the Mirataz will inspire Gen to eat better.

I think maybe the increased dosage is working to some extent, based on the times I've seen him get up to eat, but I won't really know how well his appetite is doing today until I get home. (I haven't found a vantage point for the camera that gives me a really clear view of the food bowls' contents and his favorite hangout spots in that room.)

Jeez it’s so hard to figure out that to do. Can you offer him some baby food to jump start his interest?

I like to keep a few of those cans of “rescue” foods on hand just for emergencies too (Hills brand from the vet’s office).
They all seem to like that a lot.

When his numbers were going down last night, I tried him on some of both my medium carb and high carb options (the first is Hill's m/d glucosupport which I have from before I changed his diet, and the second is one of the FF gravy lovers varieties). He ate some of both, but you know, not really enough.

I haven't tried baby food yet. Getting to the store is really hard right now (the sheer quantity of snow has made cycling impossible for now, and transit/time/temperature combined are not in my favor), but I can try ordering some.

I'm also going to look into the how-tos of syringe feeding, just in case. (I've never tried it before with him.) He'll hate it, but I'm managing reasonable success with squirting water into him now, so hopefully it will be possible if absolutely necessary.

Thank you as always for your kindness and support, Staci. Hugs and vines right back at you and Ivy!

It hasn't. Mirataz has been fool proof for him. The nausea meds didn't seem to change much when he had that pancreatitis flare, but the fluids from the vet and starting mirataz completely turned things around.

What sort of dose are you giving him now? Also, does he seem dehydrated at all? With Xander's pancreatitis, he wasn't eating thatt poorly but still got pretty dehydrated which is also a factor influencing appetite.

You know how they have that little line on the package to base your dose on? (It's about the same length as the first two joints on my forefinger.) For the previous few days, I'd been giving him about half that; last night, I went back to the full amount. I don't know how long the increase takes to take effect - certainly, the first time I gave him any, it took awhile to kick in, so I imagine there's a delay with an increased amount too?

I don't think he's dehydrated? He certainly drinks his water. He seems to be peeing a reasonably normal amount, though it's hard to gauge since he does some of it in the bathtub. I'm not sure how else to tell.

 

[Jessica & Indy]

My vet said it was for elimination (trying to figure out what might be affecting his GI system) - the psyllium seemed to correlate with his instances of inappetence, though it pretty clearly can't have been the sole cause. (And of course, it wasn't in play at all yesterday.) And he's been having such soft poops (almost diarrhea, even with the s.boulardii), I think maybe she thought the Miralax wasn't a great idea either. (But now his poop isn't soft anymore.) I think she was trying to come up with things I could do while I waited for an ultrasound appointment/internal medicine consult? (I'm wondering if I now need to push to get those for him sooner, at higher cost. Argh. And by "push", I mostly mean myself; she'll support what I choose.)


I think maybe the increased dosage is working to some extent, based on the times I've seen him get up to eat, but I won't really know how well his appetite is doing today until I get home. (I haven't found a vantage point for the camera that gives me a really clear view of the food bowls' contents and his favorite hangout spots in that room.)


When his numbers were going down last night, I tried him on some of both my medium carb and high carb options (the first is Hill's m/d glucosupport which I have from before I changed his diet, and the second is one of the FF gravy lovers varieties). He ate some of both, but you know, not really enough.

I haven't tried baby food yet. Getting to the store is really hard right now (the sheer quantity of snow has made cycling impossible for now, and transit/time/temperature combined are not in my favor), but I can try ordering some.

I'm also going to look into the how-tos of syringe feeding, just in case. (I've never tried it before with him.) He'll hate it, but I'm managing reasonable success with squirting water into him now, so hopefully it will be possible if absolutely necessary.

Thank you as always for your kindness and support, Staci. Hugs and vines right back at you and Ivy!


You know how they have that little line on the package to base your dose on? (It's about the same length as the first two joints on my forefinger.) For the previous few days, I'd been giving him about half that; last night, I went back to the full amount. I don't know how long the increase takes to take effect - certainly, the first time I gave him any, it took awhile to kick in, so I imagine there's a delay with an increased amount too?

I don't think he's dehydrated? He certainly drinks his water. He seems to be peeing a reasonably normal amount, though it's hard to gauge since he does some of it in the bathtub. I'm not sure how else to tell.

I have nothing meaningful to contribute other than more positive thoughts.....but Gen pees in the bathtub? The goober! I once had Luna (one of the civvies) pee in the sink when she was about a year old....completely randomly. I swear these cats' shenanigans are too much!

 

[Allie & Gen]

I have nothing meaningful to contribute other than more positive thoughts.....but Gen pees in the bathtub? The goober! I once had Luna (one of the civvies) pee in the sink when she was about a year old....completely randomly. I swear these cats' shenanigans are too much!

It started sometime in the last year ... took me awhile to realize! It sounds like a silly/random thing, but it was probably one of the first warning signs of some of his current health issues, unfortunately. My vet and I both think that when he pees outside his litterbox, it has something to do with discomfort. (He also pooped in there, just once, last week when he was having near-diarrhea, which scared me! And left a stain that I had to work hard to remove.) I also found (a few weeks back, right when I was getting ready to leave for my weekend away) that he'd been peeing on the big, substantial mat we had inside the front door, so I had to throw that away and scrub the area intensively with Nature's Miracle. So far, I haven't noticed any other novel urination spots ...

Back in 2021 when he was initially diagnosed with FD, my roommates at the time and I belatedly discovered that he had been hiding the volume of his urination by peeing in a few random corners, including my closet (sadly that apartment had open, doorless clothing closets in the bedrooms) and on a stack of broken-down cardboard boxes we were storing in a tiny spare room (which also had no door). Cleanup was a huge chore and really gross (because it had clearly been going on for some time). I'll take the bathtub ... much easier to scrub, though it complicates my morning routine (I always wash it before I shower now, just in case, because it's not always completely obvious if he's used it).

 

[Wendy&Neko]

When his appy went off after they had you stop the psyllium husk and the Miralax, then I read about small nuggets of poo, I was thinking constipation. That can throw the appy off. Glad to hear you restarted the Miralax.

I found that syringing in a bit of food could restart the appy. Prime the pump so to speak.Syringe/Assisted Feeding (Video and Tips)
You might want to get a couple cans of A/D or Royal Canin Recovery next time you are in the vet. They are soft and easy to syringe. Bonus, Neko really liked the Recovery. Make sure you syringe something that's not his regular food, as that can turn them off that particular food. I had a fatty liver kitty I fostered that went completely off of chicken in any form, for a few months after he started eating on his own again. You can always purree with water the food you want to syringe. Side note, I had two kitties on food strikes, the FHL foster and another shelter kitty with severe calicivirus start eating again when they got Snappy Tom food. Not sure what the carbs are, and lots of seafood, but hey, it worked!

I belatedly discovered that he had been hiding the volume of his urination by peeing in a few random corners,

You can get black light flashlights that do a really good job finding the hidden pee spots if the room is dark.

 

[Allie & Gen]

When his appy went off after they had you stop the psyllium husk and the Miralax, then I read about small nuggets of poo, I was thinking constipation. That can throw the appy off. Glad to hear you restarted the Miralax.

I was thinking that was one possibility, yeah - but I hadn't restarted the Miralax yet when you posted this (I think maybe you misread the part where I increased the dose of Mirataz, they are way too close). I have put some in his food tonight though. Which he's not eating a whole lot of, but he is going back and eating little bits all on his own, so hopefully ...

I found that syringing in a bit of food could restart the appy. Prime the pump so to speak.Syringe/Assisted Feeding (Video and Tips)
You might want to get a couple cans of A/D or Royal Canin Recovery next time you are in the vet. They are soft and easy to syringe. Bonus, Neko really liked the Recovery. Make sure you syringe something that's not his regular food, as that can turn them off that particular food. I had a fatty liver kitty I fostered that went completely off of chicken in any form, for a few months after he started eating on his own again. You can always purree with water the food you want to syringe. Side note, I had two kitties on food strikes, the FHL foster and another shelter kitty with severe calicivirus start eating again when they got Snappy Tom food. Not sure what the carbs are, and lots of seafood, but hey, it worked!

You can get black light flashlights that do a really good job finding the hidden pee spots if the room is dark.

Thank you for the link and all the suggestions! It's good to have options. Nothing makes me feel so helpless as when I've tried literally everything I have in the pantry that I think he might like, and he just doesn't eat it. Also I think my stress is communicating itself to him, so I'm trying to back off a bit and let him get on with it how he wants as long as his numbers aren't too low ... if I syringe feed, I worry that the indignity/loss of autonomy might counter and outweigh any benefit, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Try offering him Churu in a syringe first. Get him used to that as an alternate way to get treats. Once he's used to eating from a syringe, just squirt a bit it, eating actual food may be easier. I like to think of it as assist feeding, you are offering it as an alternate way to eat. Some people have success with spoon feeding, offering food on a spoon. Have to bowl of food right there, so he can choose to dive in if ready to do it.