11/29 Nico amps- 215, +2- 93,+4- 78, pmps-73/79/117,+2- 61,+2.75- 67,+3.5- 87,+4.5- 60,+5- 88,+6- 60(maybe 45?),+7-55,+7.5- 75, don't know when56

Tyleete

Tyleete

Member Since 2025
Yesterday
Fun pic for Saturday.
This was when we found Nico, enormous hime shopping. So emaciated and crying for help.
At approx 5mo old, he could fit in the palm of your hand.
He was darling even then.🙂
 

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Oh my goodness, what a baby! 😻 I always enjoy stories about kittens showing up and demanding that people take them in. Sad for the Nico that he was in distress, but he found a great human to care for him!

Here's to a lovely, safe day for him.
 
Do I need to worry about the lower numbers? I'm thinking no. His pet meter was 78 and it's considered hypo at 74. But the Relion was 47. I have been using the pet meter to gauge house insulin.
I was thinking I don't want to stab him again, because the data (to me anyhow), shows he always climbs after the +4.
I'm thinking this is good. But should I worry about that 47 on his Relion?
 
Tyleete said:
Do I need to worry about the lower numbers? I'm thinking no. His pet meter was 78 and it's considered hypo at 74. But the Relion was 47. I have been using the pet meter to gauge house insulin.
I was thinking I don't want to stab him again, because the data (to me anyhow), shows he always climbs after the +4.
I'm thinking this is good. But should I worry about that 47 on his Relion?
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I know I would be freaking out. But I haven't seen Monster's numbers that low before. Maybe he'll come right back up!
Fingers crossed!
 
A 47 on a Relion is low to me. Anything below 50 on a Relion makes me a little nervy. That said, I don't really understand the differences between the two meters you are using. To me a 47 on a Relion is a 47.

I try to avoid anything below 50 for Jude. A study by Graves and Gilor reports the following findings:

"Episodes of subclinical IIH [insulin-induced hypoglycemia] are not benign: they lower the glycemic threshold for sympathoadrenal responses and increase the risk of future severe hypoglycemic crises. • Hypoglycemia begets hypoglycemia, not hyperglycemia. There is no evidence for “Somogyi effect” or “rebound hyperglycemia” in dogs or cats."

Graves, Thomas K.; Gilor, Chen. Diabetes Mellitus in Cats and Dogs, An Issue of Veterinary Clinics of North America: Small Animal Practice, E-Book (The Clinics: Veterinary Medicine) (p. 559). (Function). Kindle Edition.

And their threshold for hypoglycemia is 50. So, because the belief is that hypos beget hypos, I try to avoid them as much as possible.
 
Mary & Jude said:
A 47 on a Relion is low to me. Anything below 50 on a Relion makes me a little nervy. That said, I don't really understand the differences between the two meters you are using. To me a 47 on a Relion is a 47.

I try to avoid anything below 50 for Jude. A study by Graves and Gilor reports the following findings:

"Episodes of subclinical IIH [insulin-induced hypoglycemia] are not benign: they lower the glycemic threshold for sympathoadrenal responses and increase the risk of future severe hypoglycemic crises. • Hypoglycemia begets hypoglycemia, not hyperglycemia. There is no evidence for “Somogyi effect” or “rebound hyperglycemia” in dogs or cats."

Graves, Thomas K.; Gilor, Chen. Diabetes Mellitus in Cats and Dogs, An Issue of Veterinary Clinics of North America: Small Animal Practice, E-Book (The Clinics: Veterinary Medicine) (p. 559). (Function). Kindle Edition.

And their threshold for hypoglycemia is 50. So, because the belief is that hypos beget hypos, I try to avoid them as much as possible.
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I agree completely, Mary!!

A 47 Relion reading is an instant reduction down by .25 units at your next dose!!!

Congratulations on the reduction!!! 🥰
 
Mary & Jude said:
A 47 on a Relion is low to me. Anything below 50 on a Relion makes me a little nervy. That said, I don't really understand the differences between the two meters you are using. To me a 47 on a Relion is a 47.

I try to avoid anything below 50 for Jude. A study by Graves and Gilor reports the following findings:

"Episodes of subclinical IIH [insulin-induced hypoglycemia] are not benign: they lower the glycemic threshold for sympathoadrenal responses and increase the risk of future severe hypoglycemic crises. • Hypoglycemia begets hypoglycemia, not hyperglycemia. There is no evidence for “Somogyi effect” or “rebound hyperglycemia” in dogs or cats."

Graves, Thomas K.; Gilor, Chen. Diabetes Mellitus in Cats and Dogs, An Issue of Veterinary Clinics of North America: Small Animal Practice, E-Book (The Clinics: Veterinary Medicine) (p. 559). (Function). Kindle Edition.

And their threshold for hypoglycemia is 50. So, because the belief is that hypos beget hypos, I try to avoid them as much as possible.
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I have no idea what any of that means. But are you saying if he reaches those numbers too often it will be hard to get him out of them?:(
And he just had 0.25 reduction last night and is on TR. Is he allowed another so soon? I won't complain about not measuring that 0.25 though.
And us this what they mean by breakthrough? It took a high dose to make it work, but more he doesn't need that?
 
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Tyleete said:
I have no idea what any of that means. But are you saying if he reaches those numbers too often it will be hard to get him out of them?:(
And he just had 0.25 reduction last night and is on TR. Is he allowed another so soon? I won't complain about not measuring that 0.25 though.
And us this what they mean by breakthrough? It took a high dose to make it work, but more he doesn't need that?
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Yes, what they are saying is that their research findings show that cats that fall below 50 frequently when they are receiving insulin ("insulin-induced hypoglycemia"), will tend to do it more often in the future. Bear in mind, I'm not saying this; they are, but as experts and credible sources I'm giving them my thoughtful consideration.

Here is what the TR sticky says:
"The TR Protocol is an aggressive method in itself. The modified version of the protocol is slightly more aggressive. Let's keep all our kitties in the Lantus, Levemir, & Biosimilars ISG safe by taking reductions when appropriate.
  • If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit."
But, here is what Wendy posted on your board a few days ago: 11/26 Nico Amps- 193, +2- 145,+4- 78,+8.5- 163, pmps- 144,+4- 102: "...he just earned a reduction, this is likely the depot of the 3.75 units dose talking. With TR we don't take back to back reductions, unless below 40 (on a human meter)." (And I wish they would make that note in the sticky--maybe I'm overlooking it.)

It might be a breakthrough dose; the cycles to come will show if it is or isn't. As Wendy said above, it might just be the larger depot still in play that is causing him to drop again. Sometimes when this happens (a dose reduction and then they go low again), it's helpful to carb manipulate after the reduction and when they go low to avoid another drop below 50. The idea is that, because the larger depot is still in play, you want to feed the drop so that you can maintain the dose until the depot readjusts, and the nadirs come up a bit. Let me know if that doesn't make sense. 😊

If you want to see a breakthrough dose on a spreadsheet, look at Jude's around 2/8/25. He had been at 3 for a while, and then, bam, we started racing down the dosing ladder (as they say). I ended up taking some unearned reductions during that time because I had to work, and I was carbing him almost the entire time to keep him from going too low. It was nerve-racking. Also, I ended up suffering a corneal abrasion because I was not getting enough sleep (staying up and carbing!), and my poor eyes just got too dry.

Let's tag @tiffmaxee and see what she says about Nico's dosing.
 
Mary & Jude said:
Yes, what they are saying is that their research findings show that cats that fall below 50 frequently when they are receiving insulin ("insulin-induced hypoglycemia"), will tend to do it more often in the future. Bear in mind, I'm not saying this; they are, but as experts and credible sources I'm giving them my thoughtful consideration.

Here is what the TR sticky says:
"The TR Protocol is an aggressive method in itself. The modified version of the protocol is slightly more aggressive. Let's keep all our kitties in the Lantus, Levemir, & Biosimilars ISG safe by taking reductions when appropriate.
  • If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit."
But, here is what Wendy posted on your board a few days ago: 11/26 Nico Amps- 193, +2- 145,+4- 78,+8.5- 163, pmps- 144,+4- 102: "...he just earned a reduction, this is likely the depot of the 3.75 units dose talking. With TR we don't take back to back reductions, unless below 40 (on a human meter)." (And I wish they would make that note in the sticky--maybe I'm overlooking it.)

It might be a breakthrough dose; the cycles to come will show if it is or isn't. As Wendy said above, it might just be the larger depot still in play that is causing him to drop again. Sometimes when this happens (a dose reduction and then they go low again), it's helpful to carb manipulate after the reduction and when they go low to avoid another drop below 50. The idea is that, because the larger depot is still in play, you want to feed the drop so that you can maintain the dose until the depot readjusts, and the nadirs come up a bit. Let me know if that doesn't make sense. 😊

If you want to see a breakthrough dose on a spreadsheet, look at Jude's around 2/8/25. He had been at 3 for a while, and then, bam, we started racing down the dosing ladder (as they say). I ended up taking some unearned reductions during that time because I had to work, and I was carbing him almost the entire time to keep him from going too low. It was nerve-racking. Also, I ended up suffering a corneal abrasion because I was not getting enough sleep (staying up and carbing!), and my poor eyes just got too dry.

Let's tag @tiffmaxee and see what she says about Nico's dosing.
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See, that's what had me confused. Technically it's not a back to back, right? But with what @Wendy&Neko said the day before, this could be just the vault.
So.... Do I stay with the 3.25 and just feed him a tsp if the Mc (mine's a heavy one Regan thinks it's only Mc) along with his normal lc? And if I do go with that, do I wait to do that at his onset of +2? Or when?
It's why I was wondering. Sometimes contradictory info.😬
And thank you.❤️
 
Mary & Jude said:
You're right! Technically, there is one cycle in between the reduction, so it's not back to back.
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So which do I do?😅
Wait at 3.25 tonight and feed him 1tsp of mc with his normal food? But if I'm supposed to do that, at what time do I add the mc? Shot time or +2?
Sorry for all the technical questions.
 
So under 50 on a human meter is not hypo UNLESS symptomatic. It’s just low numbers and time to feed some carbs and check every 20-30 minutes until able to be above 50 without feeding. Cats more than a year diabetic earn a reduction when following TR if under 40. The corresponding BG to 50 on a pet meter is 68.

That is not to say I didn’t get a little nervous when Max dipped into the 40’s or 30’s but he never had a symptomatic hypo. I really have been nervous coaching people when experiencing low numbers the first few times, especially when they didn’t post rechecks fast enough for me, lol.
 
I just took a look at the ss. Nice nadir. A reduces not been earned. I’m not sure why the lady reduction was taken. The stout is influencing this cycle can can for 4-6 cycles.
 
I just saw yesterday’s post and a reduction was earned. You don’t want him under 68 snd 60’s definitely too low on a pet meter.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I just saw yesterday’s post and a reduction was earned. You don’t want him under 68 snd 60’s definitely too low on a pet meter.
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My pet meter is also different from AT. My pamphlet (I still look often) says regular is 75-120. That anything under the 75 is considered hypo.

Oh great! I just took his numbers (I think he double dips), and his pet meter now says 73 & human still at 47!

Am I to feed him 1tsp mc along with his 1oz lc regular food?
Regular amount that I just switched to last night of 3.25? Have to shoot within 30, so going to elevate that since I've gotten some back and forth, opposite advice and just want to be sure? 😬
 
Tyleete said:
My pet meter is also different from AT. My pamphlet (I still look often) says regular is 75-120. That anything under the 75 is considered hypo.

Oh great! I just took his numbers (I think he double dips), and his pet meter now says 73 & human still at 47!

Am I to feed him 1tsp mc along with his 1oz lc regular food?
Regular amount that I just switched to last night of 3.25? Have to shoot within 30, so going to elevate that since I've gotten some back and forth, opposite advice and just want to be sure? 😬
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Just to clarify any confusion, specifically what is the "back and forth, opposite advice?" I sure don't like having confusion surrounding what I'm supposed to do with my cat.
 
Mary & Jude said:
Just to clarify any confusion, specifically what is the "back and forth, opposite advice?" I sure don't like having confusion surrounding what I'm supposed to do with my cat.
Click to expand...
I've been told give, a reduction, don't give a reduction, at one point questioning the last reduction, and now possibly not to give shot, but admittedly from another not doing the TR method. So yes, confused am I.😅
 
This is nuts! My pet meter went up from 73-79.
Human meter went from 47-46!
I had begun doing the Relion to compare and get used to it and eventually switch over. Especially since mine is a little different in number range from the alpha track.
Do I just ignore the human one at this point? That was why my original question. My pet meter showed low, but human showed hypo?
They're all mad at me cause they want to eat back there.:/
WHY Nico? 😭
 
squeem3 said:
Yes, feed a little bit of MC and keep testing.

It wasn't too long ago where you were frustrated with the red and black numbers. A few weeks of patience has paid off, maybe a bit too much right now.

Personally I would not give insulin if bgs haven't gone up much by insulin time. But I don't do TR.
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Oh. This is what I meant about contradicting advice. I am Not saying your way is wrong, please don't think I'm not appreciative. But Wendy below said to wait to shoot and don't feed.
I'm guessing because if I feed it would essentially be giving a false standing? I'm not sure.
I really don't know. :(
 
The pet meter will read higher than a human meter. You don’t want to shoot under 50 on a human meter. Sometimes the BG drops when you stall. I would skip. Did you feed st .+10? If not might want to try that next time.
 
Tyleete said:
Oh. This is what I meant about contradicting advice. I am Not saying your way is wrong, please don't think I'm not appreciative. But Wendy below said to wait to shoot and don't feed.
I'm guessing because if I feed it would essentially be giving a false standing? I'm not sure.
I really don't know. :(
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Giving mc is not the answer as it will inflate the BG. You are correct.
 
tiffmaxee said:
The pet meter will read higher than a human meter. You don’t want to shoot under 50 on a human meter. Sometimes the BG drops when you stall. I would skip. Did you feed st .+10? If not might want to try that next time.
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I haven't in the past, but I can try at least before the pm. I don't get up at 5am though. I could give him some 1%carb dry (young again) at 5am.
 
tiffmaxee said:
The pet meter will read higher than a human meter. You don’t want to shoot under 50 on a human meter. Sometimes the BG drops when you stall. I would skip. Did you feed st .+10? If not might want to try that next time.
Click to expand...
So you want me to feed him (he's already an hour late to eat) and not give him a shot tonight?
 
Tyleete said:
So you want me to feed him (he's already an hour late to eat) and not give him a shot tonight?
Click to expand...
Unless he’s over 50 on the human meter or not in hypo range on the pet meter I would skip. If in range you can shoot. I agree with Wendy about only lc. No mc. I would not feed YA though either.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Unless he’s over 50 on the human meter or not in hypo range on the pet meter I would skip. If in range you can shoot. I agree with Wendy about only lc. No mc. I would not feed YA though either.
Click to expand...
Ok then!
This was the latest test.....
Pet meter 117/human 44
Didn't look right, so tested the pet again and got 134. Had little more blood second time.
Does this mean my pet meter is right and the human busted? Do I shoot as the pet sayd he's fine and been rising like he should? I'm a bit lost at to what to do.
 
With past DKA I hate to skip. You could shoot a reduced dose. That won’t change the first half of the cycle but could the second half.

I hate using different meters for this reason. But it’s rarely so extreme.
 
How is he doing? I've been trying to follow along on my breaks at work. Using both meters is so confusing. I'm not sure I would know which one to trust. I know most pet meters you have to calibrate it every time you start using new test strips. That's one thing I noticed is different. I have a pet meter too and was using both at first but I decided to go with the human one because it's what everything here is based on.
I hope Nico is doing better and adjusts to dose smoothly!😺❤️
 
tiffmaxee said:
With past DKA I hate to skip. You could shoot a reduced dose. That won’t change the first half of the cycle but could the second half.

I hate using different meters for this reason. But it’s rarely so extreme.
Click to expand...
Ok then!
With the pet first saying 117, then with 134 with some more blood.
I am ditching this stupid Relion. I was trying to get used to it so I could switch over. But I guess I'm glad I didn't just switch.:(
I'm guessing it's just wrong. I wish I could afford the Alpha Track 3, but their test strips cost $1ea, verses mine costs $0.46ea. Paying about $75mo in strips as is, it's tough enough. My pet meter numbers are different. I think AT3 reg range is 70-150, whereas my Advocate is 75-120. It's another reason I wanted to switch to human. Because the ss is for the AT numbers, not mine which are different.

To any and all above, Thank You. I thought I was good with low numbers, but have never had preshot numbers like this before.
I will put the human meter away. As I said, my pet one's ranges are lower than the AT and I wanted to be able to stop using it.
Right now my recently diagnosed cancer girl isn't wanting to eat much the last 24 either. So as always, I'm dealing with more than one urgent issue. So if I was short with anyone, please forgive me and I apologize. Just in case.😊
@tiffmaxee what would you suggest I do in watching him?
As for the feeding him +10, that would put us at 5am. It's bad enough he wakes me around 6 and I get up by 6:30 to start the day. It's why I said I could probably get him some of the Young Again Zero kibble at that hour. That would be more possible? Or I could actually give him a little freeze dried raw. His normal food is something I have to prep. I don't want to do anything much can't go to back to bed for a hour. As is I don't get to sleep till at least 12am. Is that something you think I should try?
 
Get a +1 and +2. I wonder if there was too much or too little blood on the Relion strip. I used a Relion but that was 9 years ago when and it was a different meter requiring very little blood.

You could give freeze dried.at +10 if he is low.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Get a +1 and +2. I wonder if there was too much or too little blood on the Relion strip. I used a Relion but that was 9 years ago when and it was a different meter requiring very little blood.

You could give freeze dried.at +10 if he is low.
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You can have too much blood? I've had so many errors from too little. Those things seem ridiculous. They require either 5 or 6, whereas my pet meter is only 3.
I just took a test at +2 as 1 would've been an hour ago and I didn't get it. It's 61.:(
Gave him some regular food plus 1tsp if what I've been told is mc. It's all they had at the store. I'll look in my cabinet, but I think Regan said it was 15%.
 
Tyleete said:
Gave him some regular food plus 1tsp if what I've been told is mc. It's all they had at the store. I'll look in my cabinet, but I think Regan said it was 15%.
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15% is the high end of med carb. I think you said it was ff grilled chicken feast in gravy? I have some and have 15 written in my cans.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Good job. It’s early so let’s try and keep him up.
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Thanks. Thanks to you and the others. But you've been an amazing lifeline.
Just took it a couple minutes ago and it's 67. Gave more hc.
I know I'm not to expect going to sleep anytime soon, but how long would you suggest I keep up with the carb food? Once he hits his good number (which regardless of what the ss says, is actually 75), do I stop?
I know you typically stay up for 2 tests showing either flattening or rising. Does that count for this, or do I need longer?
 
Progress. You want him above the hypo alert zone for 2 hours without hc before you call it a night. Then leave out some freeze dried or lc.

Sorry it took awhile for me to see this. I was cooking cat food.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Progress. You want him above the hypo alert zone for 2 hours without hc before you call it a night. Then leave out some freeze dried or lc.

Sorry it took awhile for me to see this. I was cooking cat food.
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Oh no no! Please don't apologize! I just figured all the same people were off to bed!😅
Ok, so I took that test at 11:30. I'll try again at 12:30, and if at the 1:30 he's still good, I can call it a day?
I only gave him his treats at 11:30 for the test, and his treats don't even have 1% carbs so he's good there.
I'm so writing this in my notepad to remember. Thanks!
 
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