11/25 Nico amps- 246, +2- 106, +4- 69, +4.5- 75, +5- 152, +10- 203, pmps- 167, +2- 152.+4- 87, +5- 120
- Thread starter Tyleete
- Start date
Staci & Ivy
Member Since 2022
Bouncing is very, very normal as they get used to lower BG than they have seen in a while.Yesterday
I'm so worried. How does he go from great numbers of low blues, then even in the green, and then this again? Are these even bounces since he never seems to come back down all the way, or something else?
Feeling a little deflated.
And Nico has seen some nice numbers lately
He’s most likely been diabetic longer than you realize. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Patience is mentioned here a lot. It’s so true.
Feline diabetes is a marathon, not a sprint
Hope he comes down gently today
Lauren & Esse
Member Since 2025
Now that you have your PZ and Lantus spreadsheets combined, it's SO OBVIOUS that you're making progress!! These are definitely bounces. You and Nico are doing great.
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
Wooh! I don't know why, but I just had a feeling to check my little man before his +2 small meal. It was 106 on the pet meter! Woohoo! The stupid Relion gave an error, as is typical much of the time. But I know that would have had him in the greens for the human meter. I'm so happy!!!Bouncing is very, very normal as they get used to lower BG than they have seen in a while.
And Nico has seen some nice numbers lately
He’s most likely been diabetic longer than you realize. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Patience is mentioned here a lot. It’s so true.
Feline diabetes is a marathon, not a sprint
Hope he comes down gently today
Ok, now I also wonder (it's been a while since doing +2), if maybe his 'small meals' are still too big?:/ I'd love some opinions.
Nico get a total of 6oz of chicken or pork per day. Technically, he should be eating between 4-4.8oz a day, weighed before cooking. But he lost 4lbs (yes he was chubby) in 4mo time before diagnosed, and has always been starving. So I've been feeding him 6oz. Then he also gets at least 4oz of the broth it was cooked it with the it throughout the day as well as his low/no carb treats for testing.
Should I be cutting back on his food now? Am I feeding him too much and that making this a bigger struggle? I feed him 1oz meat at 7, half an bounce at both
Bouncing is very, very normal as they get used to lower BG than they have seen in a while.
And Nico has seen some nice numbers lately
He’s most likely been diabetic longer than you realize. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Patience is mentioned here a lot. It’s so true.
Feline diabetes is a marathon, not a sprint
Hope he comes down gently today
Woohoo! My Relion (trying side by side for now) gave the typical error, but if my pet meter said 106, I know the human meter would be in greens right now.Bouncing is very, very normal as they get used to lower BG than they have seen in a while.
And Nico has seen some nice numbers lately
He’s most likely been diabetic longer than you realize. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Patience is mentioned here a lot. It’s so true.
Feline diabetes is a marathon, not a sprint
Hope he comes down gently today
I went to feed him his +2 and got the nudge to test. It's been a while since I've done a +2, and now wondering if my 'small meals' are interfering with his numbers and tests?
He eats 6oz of meat (not including the 4oz of broth) a day. That's raw weight. Comes to 4oz cooked. I give him 1oz at 7am, 1/2oz at 9 & 11. 7pm 1oz, 1/2oz at 9 & 11. Is that too much and should give more at breakfast time and main dinner instead? In the past, he's always 'starving'. He'd lost 4lbs in 4mo before diagnosed, yes he was chubby. Recently it looks like he's gained 1 back, putting him at 10lbs. And typically a 10lb cat should be eating between 4-4.8oz raw weight, but he he's been eating the 6oz raw weight for a very long time. Should I start cutting back now?
AND! As thesr are my normal concerns, he decides NOT to eat his 9am feeding. Just drank all the broth.
Is that normal when their numbers drop like his? I think he did that last time too. I swear everything this loopy cat does stresses me out.
And I know he had this much longer before diagnosed. We thought it was depression for a couple of months, as he'd just lost his last brother (of 3) in a single year. We had no clue it could be medical.
Monster's Mom
Member Since 2025
There's that blue again 
I can't say anything about the feeding, I'm not qualified for that but I can say you are doing a wonderful job. It's clear how much you care about him and wanting what's best for him. Keep it up!!! Maybe we'll see him slide back down into the greens, gently!
I can't say anything about the feeding, I'm not qualified for that but I can say you are doing a wonderful job. It's clear how much you care about him and wanting what's best for him. Keep it up!!! Maybe we'll see him slide back down into the greens, gently!
Karolina & Nestle
Member Since 2022
You're doing great. There's definitely progress.
Happy tuesday
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Happy tuesday
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Karolina & Nestle
Member Since 2022
Ok as long as you're able to monitor he'll be save. Test again in 30 to see if he's going back up.
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
Thank you, going to do that. I put the question because I didn't know if I should be doing anything different.Ok as long as you're able to monitor he'll be save. Test again in 30 to see if he's going back up.
Don't let Monster's mum see this thread.
Might get nervous as hers is heading lower too.After he starts to climb again, how often do I need to keep testing? Should I feed another little meal only if numbers still not good?
Lauren & Esse
Member Since 2025
From our Don't Panic! or How to Handle Low Numbers page -- (you've already done the first couple steps)
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
Thanks! It worries me more, that first number. I first tested and the pet meter said 55! 74 down is considered hypo on my meter. So ahhh! Second was the 69 and Relion was 33. Scary. But I think I kept my cool while rushing around to get the proper food. I'll go test again now
Lauren & Esse
Member Since 2025
A number under 68 on a pet meter (or under 50 on a human meter) means a reduction. So he actually should not be getting 3.75 again tonight.
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
Aw, dang it. I just tested about 30min later and it did 152.
Now, I couldn't get a lot of blood, but I'd already gotten him twice. I'll check him again soon enough. I also fed him 3x his normal after the hc food because he was hungry & I was scared. Was that wrong I'm guessing?
Now, to get that reduction, does he just have to be below during the cycle? Or only am/pmps?
And thank you
Now, I couldn't get a lot of blood, but I'd already gotten him twice. I'll check him again soon enough. I also fed him 3x his normal after the hc food because he was hungry & I was scared. Was that wrong I'm guessing?
Now, to get that reduction, does he just have to be below during the cycle? Or only am/pmps?
And thank you
Lauren & Esse
Member Since 2025
Not surprising, VERY likely he will bounce from that low number. His body probably hasn't seen a BG that low in a long time. You did all the right things. I have also been guilty of overdoing it on the HC because I wanted him up FAST but it's always better to be high than low.
Any number in the cycle! And usually it will be a mid-cycle/nadir number, which is why getting that data is so key. Any hypo or borderline hypo (even if it wasn't symptomatic) needs to be taken seriously.
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
Thank you so much for all that!
I'm going to test him again soon, was waiting for an hour.
I'm so glad I have this place with all these wonderful people such as yourself, so newbies like me don't go nuts.
My boy usually double dips. Is there any number where I DON'T shoot at for what he's going through? I don't like the idea of NS personally, but just want to be prepared.
Also, does this mean the 3.75 was too high? Will I go back to the 3.75? Thanks in advance. Time to go eat my own meal. Haven't eaten yet today, been so nervous.
Lauren & Esse
Member Since 2025
Maybe get a +11 for tonight and post back here if it looks like he's dropping again. In some cases folks will do a partial dose to "drain the depot" after a low but if it looks like he's gonna bounce anyway then it may not be necessary.
Too high for TODAY, but maybe not too high forever. From your (least) favorite page: "If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose as soon as you see kitty's numbers trending upwards. You don't have to hold the reduced dose for a certain number of cycles before taking the dose right back up. The guidelines listed under the topic "Increasing the dose" do not apply to a failed reduction."
We've been through this a couple times with Esse where he missed a morning snack, had a low, got a reduction, and ended up right back at that same dose a couple days later. But it's important to be cautious and take that reduction just in case--that's what the TR protocol tells us.
Mary & Jude
Member Since 2024
Oh, man, the two glucose meters make my head swim!! 
Yay! a green!! Expect a bounce. But look at the nadirs in the last four days--you've got greens, blues, and yellows--some reds, but not a lot of reds and no blacks (ANTI-JINX x 1million). He's slowly getting better.
One thing I wanted to point out is this: his drop from PS to +2 is a classic indicator that you might expect an active cycle. When I see those kinds of significant drops in Jude (I look for 20%+ of the preshot), I get ready to monitor because he's likely going to go lower. Ideally, (if he will eat) I try to get a LC snack into him in preparation for a lower surf.
Good job monitoring, Tyleete!
Yay! a green!! Expect a bounce. But look at the nadirs in the last four days--you've got greens, blues, and yellows--some reds, but not a lot of reds and no blacks (ANTI-JINX x 1million). He's slowly getting better.
One thing I wanted to point out is this: his drop from PS to +2 is a classic indicator that you might expect an active cycle. When I see those kinds of significant drops in Jude (I look for 20%+ of the preshot), I get ready to monitor because he's likely going to go lower. Ideally, (if he will eat) I try to get a LC snack into him in preparation for a lower surf.
Good job monitoring, Tyleete!
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
So if his numbers are back in the reds or blacks, that's a fail? But my boy bounces. A LOT. How will I know if it's a fail or a bounce? What if I'm wrong and the next morning he's in the black, so I make his am shot back up to the 3.75. But it's just him bouncing and he goes hypo again? How does one know and judge?
So was this all just because he didn't eat his morning +2? How do you force a cat to eat?
If that's the case, it's it better to give him a food with carbs, verses him eating nothing? Sorry, I'm just trying to figure it all out in the event of a 'next time'. And let's face it, with Nico, there's going to be plenty of Next times.
Oh, man, the two glucose meters make my head swim!!
Yay! a green!! Expect a bounce. But look at the nadirs in the last four days--you've got greens, blues, and yellows--some reds, but not a lot of reds and no blacks (ANTI-JINX x 1million). He's slowly getting better.
One thing I wanted to point out is this: his drop from PS to +2 is a classic indicator that you might expect an active cycle. When I see those kinds of significant drops in Jude (I look for 20%+ of the preshot), I get ready to monitor because he's likely going to go lower. Ideally, (if he will eat) I try to get a LC snack into him in preparation for a lower surf.
Good job monitoring, Tyleete!
I'll try and look out for those differences. I don't know why I didn't keep with doing +2 tests daily. I'm just trying to keep from drawing blood more than 5x a day, so guess I was trying to spread it out? But seems like that +2 is important.
How much is a considered a 'snack'? Cause I typically give him half meals at him +2 & +4.
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
*Question*
I finally got to asking my vet about my boy's loud breathing. He has asthma, and has been getting twice daily treatments since I started with the insulin for almost 2 months now. I thought his breathing would get better with lower numbers, but it hasn't. He doesn't do this 24/7, but he does do this throughout the day.
She texted me back after I showed video of it, said give him Albuterol every time he does this, because "We can't give him an oral steroid".
So here's the question.... I gave it to him. Freaked him out to where I couldn't grab him at the 1hr mark to test like I'd wanted to. But as someone else said, his numbers are obviously going up. Finally see him sleeping peacefully (& quietly!), but he's had such a hard day I'm loathe to grab him another test.
Chances are his numbers are good, no?
I finally got to asking my vet about my boy's loud breathing. He has asthma, and has been getting twice daily treatments since I started with the insulin for almost 2 months now. I thought his breathing would get better with lower numbers, but it hasn't. He doesn't do this 24/7, but he does do this throughout the day.
She texted me back after I showed video of it, said give him Albuterol every time he does this, because "We can't give him an oral steroid".
So here's the question.... I gave it to him. Freaked him out to where I couldn't grab him at the 1hr mark to test like I'd wanted to. But as someone else said, his numbers are obviously going up. Finally see him sleeping peacefully (& quietly!), but he's had such a hard day I'm loathe to grab him another test.
Chances are his numbers are good, no?
Mary & Jude
Member Since 2024
I don't think there's a measurement, but I try to make sure Jude is getting a tablespoon if I see him dropping like that (you don't want to give too much because you need him to remain hungry through the cycle in case you need to continue feeding him). I start with LC, test again at +3 (which is onset), and go from there, depending on what his numbers look like. If he continues dropping, I give a little bit more food (carb value dependent on the number), and try to get him to surf relatively flatly. Those big drops can often lead to bounces, so it's a good idea to try and smooth things out with food. Here's that sticky again that discusses manipulating the curve with food: 8/10 TASHIE pmps=HIGH! +Questions***
Lauren & Esse
Member Since 2025
I think you're overwhelming yourself a little trying to think through every possible hypothetical. Instead, focus on remembering what you've learned so far and applying it.
Tight Regulation (TR) guides us on this. Not one single number, but multiple numbers, ESPECIALLY the nadirs. We really never use one single number to indicate an increase and I think you know that now.
I know you've talked about "how do I know if it's a bounce or not" -- you can apply that knowledge here. Did he see a lower number and then shoot up higher than before? Sounds like a bounce. Is his +2 significantly higher than his preshot? Probably a bounce! Etc. You can also (broken record here) ASK.
We just have to be prepared, FOLLOW THE PROTOCOL, and confirm with others when we're unsure.
You can't know for sure. Could be that 3.75 is too high a dose (that's why we're taking the reduction), could be the missing snack, could be a combination.
You mostly can't/shouldn't, unless it's an emergency or you're under instruction from your vet to do so. If it's happening repeatedly/often, you might consider switching up the size of his meals and snacks to make sure he's hungry for that snack. But for a one-off (and this is just a one-off so far, right?) all we can do is be prepared, follow the protocol, and stay in touch to ask for help.
This is probably situationally dependent. If you were leaving the house and couldn't monitor, probably better to default to a carb he would eat vs. a low carb he won't eat. If you're home to monitor and/or he's bouncing, probably okay to just try again for that snack in a bit and get an extra test in.
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
Thanks! I know I get ahead of myself, but I just want to be prepared for when it all happens. And I'm going to just let him sleep for now. I think we're out of the woods for now & can't imagine how hard this is on his little body.
Thank you for your patience.
Fun day today! Lots of things you learned about Nico today. I peaked in earlier but Lauren was doing a great job helping so I stayed out of her way. Congrats on the reduction and handling those low numbers well. A couple things I want to add from today.
Your first post you were complaining about higher numbers again. There is a phenomenon where some kitties will go higher just before they break the bounce and dive down. Meaning, don't react to suddenly higher preshots. Especially don't increase in response to it, just in case it's one of those bounce breaking cycles. Kitties can dive down fast on a bounce breaking cycle. Good job getting that +2.
Yesterday you asked about an increase, but I suggested waiting until today to decide to see if he came back to greens. I knew today was the sixth cycle since his previous greens, and if he was going to come down, it might be today. This is why we also have patience and hold the dose longer after kitty first sees greens. And by "greens" I mean actual greens or low blues on that pet meter.
You asked earlier about amount of food you are feeding. Do you know how may calories are in that 6 oz of pork or chicken? Neko also got raw with premix added, but less than 6 oz. She was "only" 14.5 lbs but some Maine Coon in her. Each cat has different metabolisms. What works for one cat might not for another, so you have to learn what works for Nico. Do you have a kitty/baby scale in the house? If you know his ideal weight (vet can tell you) then you can weigh periodically and see if his trends are going in the right direction (up, down, flat), for the amount of food you are feeding. Being overweight can make regulation harder, so you don't want to allow him to get chubby again.
Your first post you were complaining about higher numbers again. There is a phenomenon where some kitties will go higher just before they break the bounce and dive down. Meaning, don't react to suddenly higher preshots. Especially don't increase in response to it, just in case it's one of those bounce breaking cycles. Kitties can dive down fast on a bounce breaking cycle. Good job getting that +2.
Yesterday you asked about an increase, but I suggested waiting until today to decide to see if he came back to greens. I knew today was the sixth cycle since his previous greens, and if he was going to come down, it might be today. This is why we also have patience and hold the dose longer after kitty first sees greens. And by "greens" I mean actual greens or low blues on that pet meter.
You asked earlier about amount of food you are feeding. Do you know how may calories are in that 6 oz of pork or chicken? Neko also got raw with premix added, but less than 6 oz. She was "only" 14.5 lbs but some Maine Coon in her. Each cat has different metabolisms. What works for one cat might not for another, so you have to learn what works for Nico. Do you have a kitty/baby scale in the house? If you know his ideal weight (vet can tell you) then you can weigh periodically and see if his trends are going in the right direction (up, down, flat), for the amount of food you are feeding. Being overweight can make regulation harder, so you don't want to allow him to get chubby again.
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
I didn't want to raise his dose, at it had been the first time he'd ever seen green and I was desperately hoping this might 'be it'. Though the thought of having to do 3.75 forever is awful.
What you said makes sense. Especially with my guy's bouncing.
So what do I do tomorrow morning with dosing? I just tested him at the +2 now and it's 152. That's not a drastic number like his Amps to his +2. I can't remember who, but someone told me today if it's 20% or more difference between amps and the +2, it's going to be active. I think I read that somewhere here too. Just didn't recall it & had never dealt with this low before. Definitely scary. But due to all the advice and reading. I felt relatively prepared for it.
But won't lie, not rightly sure what to do next. Guess I'll go read that TR page yet again.
Who knows, maybe some will stick. Sadly, when people explain parts, I seem to understand it better. Much to everyone's chagrin I'm sure.
I do have a baby scale and weigh him and his sister periodically. He actually gained a pound after losing 4. So he's 10lbs now. I'll shoot my vet a text to ask what his ideal weight would be. I would think 9 was good, but he doesn't seem fat right now. I honestly don't know how he even gained weight on this food. I grabbed screenshot of the 2 foods I give him. Will post them below. Am going to get another test for his +4 in another half hour. Hoping I can go to bed somewhat normal, which is around 12 lately.
One is for the pork, the other is his chicken breasts.
What you said makes sense. Especially with my guy's bouncing.
So what do I do tomorrow morning with dosing? I just tested him at the +2 now and it's 152. That's not a drastic number like his Amps to his +2. I can't remember who, but someone told me today if it's 20% or more difference between amps and the +2, it's going to be active. I think I read that somewhere here too. Just didn't recall it & had never dealt with this low before. Definitely scary. But due to all the advice and reading. I felt relatively prepared for it.
But won't lie, not rightly sure what to do next. Guess I'll go read that TR page yet again.
Who knows, maybe some will stick. Sadly, when people explain parts, I seem to understand it better. Much to everyone's chagrin I'm sure.
I do have a baby scale and weigh him and his sister periodically. He actually gained a pound after losing 4. So he's 10lbs now. I'll shoot my vet a text to ask what his ideal weight would be. I would think 9 was good, but he doesn't seem fat right now. I honestly don't know how he even gained weight on this food. I grabbed screenshot of the 2 foods I give him. Will post them below. Am going to get another test for his +4 in another half hour. Hoping I can go to bed somewhat normal, which is around 12 lately.
One is for the pork, the other is his chicken breasts.
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Monster's Mom
Member Since 2025
I remebr that too. I need to and re read it also. I really felt Monster would be ok today because last night I shot at 99 and she was good. I freaked out when I saw that 60 this morning. I couldn't concentrate at work at all. I think the first time we see a surprising number we'll freak out and next time could be prepared to handle it. Everyone's been so nice, patient and helpful but I can't help but feel like I'm bothering them,especially this holiday week.I can't remember who, but someone told me today if it's 20% or more difference between amps and the +2, it's going to be active. I think I read that somewhere here too. Just didn't recall it & had never dealt with this low before. Definitely scary. But due to all the advice and reading. I felt relatively prepared for it.
But won't lie, not rightly sure what to do next. Guess I'll go read that TR page yet again.
Who knows, maybe some will stick. Sadly, when people explain parts, I seem to understand it better. Much to everyone's chagrin I'm sure.
Tomorrow's dose is the same as tonight's dose. I'm hoping for that gentle downward slope Lantus is good at.
One thing to consider is that after a reduction, the larger 3.75 unit depot can influence the following 4-6 cycles. Meaning you might see some lower numbers that aren't representative of what the 3.5 unit dose will do once the depot is depleted.
One thing to consider is that after a reduction, the larger 3.75 unit depot can influence the following 4-6 cycles. Meaning you might see some lower numbers that aren't representative of what the 3.5 unit dose will do once the depot is depleted.
Tyleete
Member Since 2025
Gotcha! Thanks!
He just tested at +4- 87.
Guess I'll be staying up at least another hour to watch that they rise.
A thought... That means the 3.75 was most likely the unit he'll end up needing to be on, no?
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Tyleete
Member Since 2025
I know, they really have. I know I couldn't have gotten through this without them. My vets way of doing this with my first was to treat her with 1 unit, insisted I not get a monitor for home testing the first month. I can't believe the danger I put her in by listening to her.
Insulin needs change over time with cats. They don't like being predictable.