11/20 Nico amps- 376
- Thread starter Tyleete
- Start date
Lauren & Esse
Member
Bounces can take up to six cycles to 'clear'. So hard to be patient, isn't it?
Staci & Ivy
Very Active Member
Very normal to bounce. Try to be patient for him to clear it 
Love the cozy pic of Nico
Love the cozy pic of Nico
Tyleete
Active Member
Then how do we know it's safe to go up after only 6-10 cycles? If what we might be seeing is a bounce?
By the way, saw both Esse & Ivy's pics in the calendar. So cute! I hope they do that every year! It's fun to see the other cats.
diabetic_blue
Member
But is it just 6 cycles to clear?
I remember 2 days could be NDW + 1 day for actual lowest/nadir + 3 days for bounce to clear, if bouncing from new dose. This is though, I think, the most pessimistic scenario, is it not?
I remember 2 days could be NDW + 1 day for actual lowest/nadir + 3 days for bounce to clear, if bouncing from new dose. This is though, I think, the most pessimistic scenario, is it not?
Lauren & Esse
Member
I think that's one of the reasons that TR says to wait longer than 6 cycles for kitties who are new to numbers under certain thresholds. It gives them time to clear those bounces and you can judge from that before you increase. And of course you can always check with the pros here to get confirmation on what you're seeing.
The other nice thing about the extra testing data you get with TR is that it's a lot easier to tell what actually *is* a bounce vs. what's just high cycles that need more insulin. When bouncing, kitty will generally increase or stay high and flat for that cycle, vs. the U-shape you get during a normal, active Lantus cycle.
Lauren & Esse
Member
Hah, yes, I guess this would be the worst possible outcome. Also kind of a 'know thy cat' situation--are they prone to NDW, are they prone to bouncing and if so for how long, etc.
Tyleete
Active Member
I haven't seen a normal active cycle yet I think. So not sure what it looks like.
Thank you both for explaining. He has been at this new dose for 5 cycles already. I'm never sure what to do. And as I said on another thread earlier, I've read the TR thread at least 3x, and am still lost in it and never sure
Lauren & Esse
Member
TOTALLY sympathize with this! In some ways using the Libre has spoiled me--it makes it easy to see the direction any given cycle is going. But since we had such a hard time getting BG readings before the Libre, I felt like I had no idea what was going on most of the time.I haven't seen a normal active cycle yet I think. So not sure what it looks like.
And he's definitely what we would call "new to numbers under 200" so I would imagine you've got another 3-5 cycles to go. But you can always put the question tag back on and see what the experts think!
Forgot to reply to this initially--I ordered mine, I'm excited for it to arrive! I got an extra to give as a Christmas gift too, lol.
diabetic_blue
Member
Right, but in the end I think this applies more to long term diabetic kitties, where you get real experience on dose changes. Personally I would find it pretty difficult to say it is this during first few weeks.
Tyleete
Active Member
Haha! To me, you guys ARE the experts.
And the original lady that was helping me hasn't replied to one of these in days. So I'm taking all the info and help I can!
Thank you both!
Tyleete
Active Member
Uhg. 402! What the heck, this cat is going the wrong way.
I'm guessing this is just a bounce. Drives me crazy when I see such beautiful numbers the very first night. Then, nope! I know. Patient pants. I just never get him back to those good numbers it seems. So in the end it doesn't seem so much a bounce, as merely screwing with me and then going right back to the bad numbers.
Lauren & Esse
Member
Definitely seems like a bounce to me--he hit that <200 number yesterday and has gone up for each of the four tests since then. The nice part is that when you're having cycles like this, you don't have to feel so much anxiety around leaving the house, monitoring less closely, etc.
You're definitely making progress, though!! It's only been 3 weeks and already you're seeing less blacks, more yellows and blues.
You're definitely making progress, though!! It's only been 3 weeks and already you're seeing less blacks, more yellows and blues.
diabetic_blue
Member
This exactly! Also this early, don't look at numbers, look at trends.
Tyleete
Active Member
How do you spot trends? The only trend I've ever seen is... Start new dose in am, GREAT numbers at after pm, then back in high numbers to never go back down at those original beautiful numbers on that dose.
And to me, it's been longer. We started him on Prozinc, for whatever reason on the 1st of October.
diabetic_blue
Member
But the trend for now is you're out of blacks for now. Yellows are quite common and a few blues. Once his pancreas and kidney get used to lower numbers, you'll be out of reds. Then yellows. Then blues and into greens. Just have a bit more patience.
Blue was on caninsulin for almost 2 months, constantly in reds and blacks. PZ is a lot better than caninsulin afaik and many use it.
Blue was on caninsulin for almost 2 months, constantly in reds and blacks. PZ is a lot better than caninsulin afaik and many use it.
Tyleete
Active Member
I was just mad when I read all the positives of Lantus over Prozinc. Got mad she even started us on that.
Ok. I'm going to go with at least 5 more cycles to see if this will help him. Unless someone thinks different. Do we ever wait more than 10cycles? Just out of curiosity.
Tyleete
Active Member
I tested him at +4.75 and he's 373.
The reason I tested him again, was because he didn't finish all of his small meal when I just served it at +4.5.
This cat is ALWAYS hungry, so made me nervous because he didn't seem to want to finish it all at his usual +2 feeding today either, so I have the little bit left to his brother. But he's usually licking the bowl clean. What could this mean?
The reason I tested him again, was because he didn't finish all of his small meal when I just served it at +4.5.
This cat is ALWAYS hungry, so made me nervous because he didn't seem to want to finish it all at his usual +2 feeding today either, so I have the little bit left to his brother. But he's usually licking the bowl clean. What could this mean?
Lauren & Esse
Member
It could mean nothing, no reason to panic yet. Some kitties feel icky when they bounce.
One thing to check though, just in case--have you tested for ketones today?
Tyleete
Active Member
I haven't. I'll go prep all the boxes and get my stix ready, thanks!
Tyleete
Active Member
OK just tested and negative. I did one as a test after, cause I'm never positive as the colors between negative and trace are SO close! Mine was even paler, but I'm pretty sure his is negative.
I have to hold it under a small bright light to try and look. My house is rather dark inside, due to an illness that makes Nico's diabetes a walk in the park.
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Lauren & Esse
Member
That looks negative to me too!! That's a relief.
Tyleete
Active Member
It can't ask be bad news, right?
Lauren & Esse
Member
Yeah, he might just be feeling a lil icky from the bounce. I know you'll keep an eye on his eating and let us know if he develops any other symptoms.
Tyleete
Active Member
That makes sense. He's not wanted to leave the bedroom but once all either. I'm keeping an eye on him. He currently seems very relaxed and chill.
This cat clearly gives 0 cares.
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That 108 he saw a couple nights ago is probably the lowest he's been in a long time. A well deserved bounce in other words. Numbers wobble around during a bounce. On a dose that has seem low blues, I would hold for 10 cycles.
I see that yesterday you had a question about testing and ear care. Check out this post: Hometesting Links and Shooting Tips I strongly recommend reviewing a lot of those links in the Basics, New to the Group Sticky. Lots of answers to common questions in there. Including a description of a hypothetical normal cycle.
Please include links to your most recent post here: 11/19 Nico amps-495, +3- 295, +6- 163, pmps- 240, +3.75- 270. Makes it easier for me to go back. I'm OK but dealing with cat issues at home. Echocardiogram and ultrasound today, surgery got delayed for a specialist due to the lumps unfortunately location.
I see that yesterday you had a question about testing and ear care. Check out this post: Hometesting Links and Shooting Tips I strongly recommend reviewing a lot of those links in the Basics, New to the Group Sticky. Lots of answers to common questions in there. Including a description of a hypothetical normal cycle.
Please include links to your most recent post here: 11/19 Nico amps-495, +3- 295, +6- 163, pmps- 240, +3.75- 270. Makes it easier for me to go back. I'm OK but dealing with cat issues at home. Echocardiogram and ultrasound today, surgery got delayed for a specialist due to the lumps unfortunately location.