Introduction

Nurseren

Member
Hi there,

I am new and found this group after much desperation for help. My cat Lynx was diagnosed with diabetes end of September when he had an I&D of an anal gland abscess. We started at 1u of Lantus BID. Had numbers in the high 20 mmol’s. Eventually we went up to 4u BID. After a diet modification. We had a sudden drop from high mid 20mmol’s to 7.5mmol, 4.7 mmol and then to a 3.7mmol. I reached out to my vet in which he had advised to decrease to 3u BID. As a nurse, I knew deep down that this was not right but I was told time and time again that insulin with cats is not the same as humans. Last Tuesday, I woke up in the middle of the night with my cat convulsing. Sugars were 1.4mmol. I rushed him to an animal hospital 35 minutes away and by some miracle, he survived without issues. I feel so much guilt for going against my intuition, especially as a nurse. Now, we have started from scratch. We are on 1u Lantus BID but I am terrified. I can’t seem to get any clear direction. The vet from the animal hospital that saved him never called me back when I had further questions. My local vet seems to be too aggressive with the insulin. I do not trust him because I had provided my readings and description and still decided to give insulin which almost resulted in the death of my cat. I have no idea when to withhold a shot. I have read if below 10mmol, then hold. Does anyone have any insight. I did see the TR protocol from this forum. Lynx eats fancy feast 4 times a day 1/2 can each time. I am so scared. I can’t believe what happened with absolutely no accountability, especially given the $$ that was spent to save him. It’s been a rough 5 weeks. Any guidance and support would be lovely.
 
Welcome!

A diet change can have a big impact on blood glucose levels, especially on a large dose of 4 units BID.

How often do you test your cat's blood glucose levels? Since you're a nurse, I'm sure your familiar with Human diabetics testing themselves before giving insulin and testing often throughout the day.

This board recommends tracking all the numbers on a spreadsheet and sharing the spreadsheet with other members and with the vet. Instructions: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

What country are you in? We have members all over the world.
 
Hello,

I am definitely aware that a diet change can widely affect blood sugars. When Lynx was diagnosed, there was barely any direction and guidance from my vet. Initially he wanted me to only check once a week. I said as a nurse, we always test prior to administration and he told me no that’s not what we do with cats. Against his judgment, I decided to test daily when I was able to since I do work. I also am aware that 4u BID is a large dose, that is why I called my vet when BS were suddenly dropping. He advised to drop by 1u only. Additionally, when I first brought my cat home after he was diagnosed, I got a reading of 34mmol which is critical for a human, I called my vet immediately and was told not to worry about it. It was extremely frustrating because as a health care professional, I know an about diabetes management but was told time and time again that cats were not same. Eventually I decide to put my knowledge aside and listen to my vet. I will never go against my intuition ever again. I can’t even believe I decided to listen to his guidance. I am in Canada. Currently, I am testing pre shot, mid day and pre shot again. When we were released I did glucometer checks in 3-hour intervals through the night because I was paranoid. I can look into the spreadsheet. I currently use a notebook to track.
I can’t believe that my vet told me to shoot 3units after I explicitly told him the numbers and diet change that occurred. I almost killed my cat. It’s embarrassing because I am a nurse with great knowledge and decided to trust my vet.
 
We have lots of Canadian members: @Wendy&Neko @Karolina & Nestle are two. There are more according to the cool members map but many have not been on the board in awhile: Members map

Some vets just aren't very experienced in diabetes 🤷‍♀️ If you don't feel the current vet knows what they're doing, seek out a new vet. Vet Interview/Screening Topics & Check List

It's ok to disagree with any vet on treatment :) It's your cat and you make the decisions. Many people here only use their vet for checks ups and the like and a prescription for insulin.

Read the info stickies on the Lantus board to understand how the insulin works for cats: Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars
 
Thank you. How was I supposed to know I couldn’t trust my vet until something very dangerous happened 🤷🏼‍♀️. I feel like no vet in my proximity actually cares. I’ve reached out to two others and they are just as nonchalant. I might have experience but I am not a physician. How am I supposed to know when to increase or decrease doses and to which amounts.
 
Hello and welcome from the west coast. Unfortunately, your experience is not uncommon. Vets have to know a lot of conditions about a lot of animals, and unless they have had a lot of diabetics treated at their clinic, they may not be as up to date. My vet was thrilled that I wanted to treat Neko, as many clients don't. 😿 But she still prescribed Caninsulin to start as that is what she knew. Thankfully Lantus sees to be more commonly prescribed first now.

To address the issue of being over 34 mmol (612 ng/ml), in this your vet is partly right. You definitely don't want cats to stay that high, but the odd spike is OK. My cat ended up needing quite a bit more insulin than 4 units, and unfortunately did see numbers over 600 or Hi on the meter. Note, on this board, which is hosted in the US, we tend to talk in ng/mL. Just multiple our numbers by 18. If you start a spreadsheet to record numbers, it has a US and rest of world tabs, and does the multiplication for you. The spreadsheet also means we'll be able to help you with dosing. Information on the spreadsheet and other information that helps us in your signature is in this post: New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

What diet are you feeding now?
 
Hello and welcome from the west coast. Unfortunately, your experience is not uncommon. Vets have to know a lot of conditions about a lot of animals, and unless they have had a lot of diabetics treated at their clinic, they may not be as up to date. My vet was thrilled that I wanted to treat Neko, as many clients don't. 😿 But she still prescribed Caninsulin to start as that is what she knew. Thankfully Lantus sees to be more commonly prescribed first now.

To address the issue of being over 34 mmol (612 ng/ml), in this your vet is partly right. You definitely don't want cats to stay that high, but the odd spike is OK. My cat ended up needing quite a bit more insulin than 4 units, and unfortunately did see numbers over 600 or Hi on the meter. Note, on this board, which is hosted in the US, we tend to talk in ng/mL. Just multiple our numbers by 18. If you start a spreadsheet to record numbers, it has a US and rest of world tabs, and does the multiplication for you. The spreadsheet also means we'll be able to help you with dosing. Information on the spreadsheet and other information that helps us in your signature is in this post: New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

What diet are you feeding now?
Hi there. Thank you for the warm welcome. Wow okay that’s good to know. As a human nurse, when I saw 34, I cried because most humans in DKA require intensive measures in the critical care unit.
I will certainly look into the spread sheet. I appreciate everyone’s assistance and guidance. It has been a rough 5 weeks and after that event last week, I have been very discouraged.
I really don’t quite understand why he advised to continue on with the 3u on Lantus at 3.6mmol (68mg/dl). I see that there are plenty of resources on this forum. That’s great!
 
Hello and welcome from the west coast. Unfortunately, your experience is not uncommon. Vets have to know a lot of conditions about a lot of animals, and unless they have had a lot of diabetics treated at their clinic, they may not be as up to date. My vet was thrilled that I wanted to treat Neko, as many clients don't. 😿 But she still prescribed Caninsulin to start as that is what she knew. Thankfully Lantus sees to be more commonly prescribed first now.

To address the issue of being over 34 mmol (612 ng/ml), in this your vet is partly right. You definitely don't want cats to stay that high, but the odd spike is OK. My cat ended up needing quite a bit more insulin than 4 units, and unfortunately did see numbers over 600 or Hi on the meter. Note, on this board, which is hosted in the US, we tend to talk in ng/mL. Just multiple our numbers by 18. If you start a spreadsheet to record numbers, it has a US and rest of world tabs, and does the multiplication for you. The spreadsheet also means we'll be able to help you with dosing. Information on the spreadsheet and other information that helps us in your signature is in this post: New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

What diet are you feeding now?
I am feeding lynx Fancy Feast now. I switched last Sunday to dry to the w/d from prescription hills and then after finding this website, I decided to go straight to the fancy feast. It has only been 24-hours but BS have already improved.
 
A cat can have high numbers without being in DKA.

I've seen a cat go from 6 units of insulin to completely off of insulin in a couple very scary days when she removed the dry food from other cats that his caregiver thought he was not able to get too (she was wrong). We recommend making the food change slowly.

By the way, if you didn't use much w/d, you can return it and should get some money back.
 
That is good to know. Though, there were ketones in his urine initially. Wow that is very scary. I certainly understand making food changes slowly in the near future. Definitely a mistake there on my part with very dangerous consequences. I will see if I can return them that would be great.
 
Hello
I'm also from Canada, just outside of Toronto but I'm not as experienced as Wendy.
When i first started the diabetes journey my vet started us of on Caninsulin and didn't even tell me to test. He was very useless. Thankfully I found this group and these wonderful people have guided me every step of the way. If it wasn't for this forum I'm pretty sure my cat Nestle would have been gone by now. Please let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to help.
 
Hello
I'm also from Canada, just outside of Toronto but I'm not as experienced as Wendy.
When i first started the diabetes journey my vet started us of on Caninsulin and didn't even tell me to test. He was very useless. Thankfully I found this group and these wonderful people have guided me every step of the way. If it wasn't for this forum I'm pretty sure my cat Nestle would have been gone by now. Please let me know if you have any questions and I'll try to help.
Hi fellow Canadian,
I am happy to hear that this group gave you peace and I am happy to hear Nestle is in good health. I am very happy also to have found this group. I have used many of the shared information and documentation for guidance moving forward. I am from eastern Ontario near Ottawa. Thank you so much for your kind help. On my day off, I plan to start a spreadsheet and share it. I need to translate all my data from my notebook. As mentioned, I am a nurse but I don’t specialize in diabetes so I do not know it all and I am not familiar with felines. My specialty is PACU.
 
This board recommends only changing doses by 0.25 units at a time. If you have syringes with half unit markings, that would make it easier to measure doses.

Dose changes are based on curves and how low in the cycle your cat drops. Are you following TR or SLGS? Both are described here: Sticky - Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR) Pick a method and follow it. SLGS might work better for someone isn't able to be at home to test frequently. Post over on the Lantus board to get help on your cat's numbers.

Some people don't use their vet at all for their cat's diabetes other than the occasional prescription for insulin, and of course for emergencies like hypo or DKA. They rely on this board for adjusting insulin doses based on their spreadsheet.
 
This board recommends only changing doses by 0.25 units at a time. If you have syringes with half unit markings, that would make it easier to measure doses.

Dose changes are based on curves and how low in the cycle your cat drops. Are you following TR or SLGS? Both are described here: Sticky - Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR) Pick a method and follow it. SLGS might work better for someone isn't able to be at home to test frequently. Post over on the Lantus board to get help on your cat's numbers.

Some people don't use their vet at all for their cat's diabetes other than the occasional prescription for insulin, and of course for emergencies like hypo or DKA. They rely on this board for adjusting insulin doses based on their spreadsheet.
That is very good to know. Thank you. I am still gathering information from this board to determine which protocol is best suited for us. I imagine the SLGS will probably best suited since I work shifts.
Thank you very much for the information.
 
Hello and welcome, waving to you from Alberta. It was very wise of you to monitor Lynx’s BG more closely when he was released from the hospital. Cats who have suffered a symptomatic hypoglycaemic event are often more sensitive to insulin.

There is a lot of really good information available here on the forum, so please feel free to ask any questions as you go along.
 
I would go with your instincts. I work in an allied medical field and spend a good deal of time at bedside. Almost everything I learned about diabetes I learned from my cat. The process is not that different when it comes to managing a human's diabetes versus a cats. The doses are just a lot smaller. There is a lot of great information in the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board. You may find reading up on our dosing strategies useful.
 
Thank you.
I definitely will never go against my instincts again. I didn’t believe there were many differences at first but yet my vet has me convinced it was and that’s where I trusted in his expertise. I will certainly look at that.
 
Welcome to the forum! Fellow Canadian here 👋 (thanks for the tag Karolina)

Don’t be too hard on yourself, you’re supposed to be able to trust the professionals. As many have said here, a lot of vets don’t have the knowledge we expect on FD and even when they don’t, they still direct us like they do and it can really mess with our perception of what is right. I followed my vets direction for far too long before finding this group and it changed everything for Binx and I. My vet didn’t want to increase above 1.5 units and now we’re at 5.5 units!

Glad you got Lynx to emerg quickly and he was able to recover! He’s lucky to have you.

Take some time to process all the info, it can be a lot at first but it gets easier, I promise. It’s great you have the existing knowledge and are in a health care field. All useful tools when treating FD, even if it’s for humans.

Looking forward to seeing your spreadsheet!
 
Thank you so much for your kind words. It is very nice to hear many different experiences. Especially since I am not familiar with anyone locally who has or is going through the same.
I have a question.
I see in the SLGL it states the following “if nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose”. I completely understand that we are trying to maintain +6 (nadir/peak) values within this range. However, during the day my Lynx eats 4 meals of fancy feast equally divided from 2 cans. I understand how we are resting to aim for this but my worry is that if I am aiming for a BS within thin range at +6 during the day when he is eating, his nadir/peak number will be even lower at night when is not eating. Leaving dry food at night is not an option for several reasons. I have a second cat. Lynx will eat it no matter if he is hungry or not. I understand I still need to upload my spreadsheet for better understanding which I will tomorrow. Does anyone have any guidance regarding this? Is there a nadir/peak number that is more safe? Or do you need my data to be able to determine this? I just do not want to chance another severe hypo.
Thank you for your time.
 
Here is a pick of some of my data. You will see Nov 3 and 4 he woke up with quite a significant drop from the 1u so yesterday I decided to hold the 1u as it was below the SLGL. However, it is evident based off of what happened during the day that he required his 1u. This morning I woke up and decided to proceed with the 1u after the reading below. My worry is that tonight if his numbers are in the low teens, he may drop dangerously in the night. If I get below the recommended on the SLGl do I hold during the night or give? I understand Lantus works in 12 hours but can extended to 24 hours. It worries me that he will drop too low during the night. I know I might be jumping the gun. Remember these are mmol numbers since I am in Canada
IMG_5311.jpeg
 
People who have to leave out some dry food for a non-diabetic cat use a microchip feeder. That way the diabetic can't get to the food. Other people just feed all their cats the same diet as the diabetic.

A programmable feeder to provide the diabetic cat snacks overnight works well.

Lots of people do a bg test before bedtime. If levels seem to be dropping too fast, they'll leave out an extra snack or maybe a slightly higher carb snack to keep levels from dropping too low. Or they may test again in another hour and reassess how to keep levels from going too low.
 
My other cat has rx for urinary Crystal prevention. I can’t feed him the same as Lynx. I will look into the microchip feeder. This may be an option to provide a snack during the night to present levels from going too low. Thank you.
I am actually in tears on how appreciative I am for this board. I felt extremely defeated and now feel supported.
 
The prescription food might not be needed for urinary issues. Give this a read: Cat Urinary Tract Diseases: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection

Vets have very little education on nutrition and many are ifluenced by the big pet food companies so don't rely on the vet for anything diet related.

Feeding a dry food diet for a urinary issues is pretty counterintuitive IMO. The urinary system needs water to function. Why feed a diet with little water? There are some supplements that help with urinary issues like d-mannose. I'm sure urinary issues has been discussed in depth here on FDMB for both diabetics and non-diabetics if you want to search for them.
 
If I get below the recommended on the SLGl do I hold during the night or give? I understand Lantus works in 12 hours but can extended to 24 hours. It worries me that he will drop too low during the night. I know I might be jumping the gun. Remember these are mmol numbers since I am in Canada
Hopefully some more experienced members can jump on here, as I’m also not experienced with SLGS. What I can say is that for myself, following TR, when I come across a pre-shot number that’s below the threshold (pretty low for TR) then we usually consult the forum with a question added to the title.

It takes everyone time to learn how their cat responds to insulin and what numbers are okay and comfortable with shooting. The first few times the numbers were lower than I was comfortable with but within the TR threshold, I often shot a reduced dose. Now I shoot as low as in the 4’s (Canadian numbers). But it’s also important to consider if you’ll be around for follow up BG tests, so perhaps the next time you’re around during the day and get a lower number (but with SLGS threshold) you can try a reduced dose and test more, and then work your way up to shooting a full dose if possible. Again, this is just my experience and I’m not a long term member here, so hopefully others can confirm or give other opinions!

Also, I have an automatic wet food feeder and it’s game changing. They have high and low tech. For starting out, I like the ones that are low tech but have app functionality, so you can see if a feeding was dispensed successfully.
 
Hopefully some more experienced members can jump on here, as I’m also not experienced with SLGS. What I can say is that for myself, following TR, when I come across a pre-shot number that’s below the threshold (pretty low for TR) then we usually consult the forum with a question added to the title.

It takes everyone time to learn how their cat responds to insulin and what numbers are okay and comfortable with shooting. The first few times the numbers were lower than I was comfortable with but within the TR threshold, I often shot a reduced dose. Now I shoot as low as in the 4’s (Canadian numbers). But it’s also important to consider if you’ll be around for follow up BG tests, so perhaps the next time you’re around during the day and get a lower number (but with SLGS threshold) you can try a reduced dose and test more, and then work your way up to shooting a full dose if possible. Again, this is just my experience and I’m not a long term member here, so hopefully others can confirm or give other opinions!

Also, I have an automatic wet food feeder and it’s game changing. They have high and low tech. For starting out, I like the ones that are low tech but have app functionality, so you can see if a feeding was dispensed successfully.
Hopefully some more experienced members can jump on here, as I’m also not experienced with SLGS. What I can say is that for myself, following TR, when I come across a pre-shot number that’s below the threshold (pretty low for TR) then we usually consult the forum with a question added to the title.

It takes everyone time to learn how their cat responds to insulin and what numbers are okay and comfortable with shooting. The first few times the numbers were lower than I was comfortable with but within the TR threshold, I often shot a reduced dose. Now I shoot as low as in the 4’s (Canadian numbers). But it’s also important to consider if you’ll be around for follow up BG tests, so perhaps the next time you’re around during the day and get a lower number (but with SLGS threshold) you can try a reduced dose and test more, and then work your way up to shooting a full dose if possible. Again, this is just my experience and I’m not a long term member here, so hopefully others can confirm or give other opinions!

Also, I have an automatic wet food feeder and it’s game changing. They have high and low tech. For starting out, I like the ones that are low tech but have app functionality, so you can see if a feeding was dispensed successfully.
Great advice. Thank you so much. I think it’s a matter of comfort given the event that happened last week. We are slowly getting to know our cat and how he reacts to the insulin. We definitely are not comfortably shooting with normal numbers but as I become more comfortable with the data I will be able to understand Lynx better. Great suggestion to shoot a normal I am not as comfortable with when I am able to be around for frequent BS checks.
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Hopefully some more experienced members can jump on here, as I’m also not experienced with SLGS. What I can say is that for myself, following TR, when I come across a pre-shot number that’s below the threshold (pretty low for TR) then we usually consult the forum with a question added to the title.

It takes everyone time to learn how their cat responds to insulin and what numbers are okay and comfortable with shooting. The first few times the numbers were lower than I was comfortable with but within the TR threshold, I often shot a reduced dose. Now I shoot as low as in the 4’s (Canadian numbers). But it’s also important to consider if you’ll be around for follow up BG tests, so perhaps the next time you’re around during the day and get a lower number (but with SLGS threshold) you can try a reduced dose and test more, and then work your way up to shooting a full dose if possible. Again, this is just my experience and I’m not a long term member here, so hopefully others can confirm or give other opinions!

Also, I have an automatic wet food feeder and it’s game changing. They have high and low tech. For starting out, I like the ones that are low tech but have app functionality, so you can see if a feeding was dispensed successfully.
Great advice. Thank you so much. I think it’s a matter of comfort given the event that happened last week. We are slowly getting to know our cat and how he reacts to the insulin. We definitely are not comfortably shooting with normal numbers but as I become more comfortable with the data I will be able to understand Lynx better. Great suggestion to shoot a normal I am not as comfortable with when I am able to be around for frequent BS checks. As far as the automatic wet food feeders do you have a recommendation?
 
Great advice. Thank you so much. I think it’s a matter of comfort given the event that happened last week. We are slowly getting to know our cat and how he reacts to the insulin. We definitely are not comfortably shooting with normal numbers but as I become more comfortable with the data I will be able to understand Lynx better. Great suggestion to shoot a normal I am not as comfortable with when I am able to be around for frequent BS checks. As far as the automatic wet food feeders do you have a recommendation?
You’re 100% right, comfort is important and will take time after something like that. And as always, better to be high than risk dropping too low.

I’ve tried two version of wet food feeders:
First one was a version of this, from the same brand but without app capabilities. It seems to have gone up in price but I know they go on sale too. I got the one without the app for $79.99, but it didn’t have a stainless steel bowl which a lot of people like, especially if feline acne is an issue.
Pros:
- Up to 5 meals
- Tight seal between chambers
- No time limit on how long a meal can stay out/open for, except for the 6-8 hour limit on the freezer packs
- I bought an extra set of freezer packs so I could easily rotate without having to wait for them to freeze.
Cons:
- Harder to adjust times, if needed
- Limited on how long a meal can stay fresg
- I haven’t used with the app but without it, I couldn’t confirm dispensing if I was out.
- Smaller bowls so more whisker fatigue if that’s a big issue.
Amazon.ca

Now I have this (many of us use this one). More expensive but you can get up to 30% off if you wait for the right time.
Pros:
- Last up to 3 days
- Easy to set up schedules and change between
- Great oversight with the app
- Wider bowl than the other feeder, which is better for whiskers (but still a bit small)
Cons:
- Sometimes food can get pushed around depending on how aggressive each cat eats
- Can only schedule 3 meals at a time, so if there’s a 4th, it needs a separate schedule.
- Each compartment can only be open for a total of 4 hours at a time.
- Some have had issues with knowing which tray gets opened when, but this isn’t an issue for me because I fill all 3 trays at a time. Most people do that anyways, since it last 3 days and then you can be certain there will always be food.
Petlibro Polar Wet Food Feeder
(Also on Amazon)

Overall, I’m pretty happy with the Petlibro! I have Binx on 6 separate meals a day, so it really helps to be able to switch between AM/PM schedules, versus the first feeder I had where I could only set 5.
 
I have a couple of thoughts.

Nadirs aren’t always at +6. They can and do move around. One of my favourite sayings from Sienne is that Gabby’s nadirs were usually at +3 except when they weren’t ;). You may see here on the forum a saying that every cat is different (ECID). This is indeed very true, since every cat will metabolize the insulin differently, and will also have a different sensitivity to carbs. It is important for every caregiver to learn how their own cat responds to insulin and carbs.

Part of that process is to understand where he onsets, nadirs and how much duration he’s getting, which involved continued testing to gather data. From the Basics sticky:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose

With SLGS you can shoot anything above 90 (5 mmol/L) but when first starting out, we usually recommend when you are seeing a lower than usual preshot to stall, not feed and test again to see if numbers are rising without food. As you gather more data with lower preshots, you will begin to understand how Lynx responds to insulin and carbs, and you will begin to be more comfortable in giving insulin with lower preshots.

Also, as far as duration for Lantus in cats, it is typically 12 hours, but can depend on a few things, including when kitty is fed, how shot is given, among other things, but it is not 24 hours. In some cases cats actually have less duration than 12 hours, again due to a variety of variables. While Lantus is a human insulin, its effect is not metabolized the same as in humans.

If you can get your spreadsheet set up, that will help immensely to give you specific dose advice for Lynx.
 
I was going to make the same point as Christie's first one above. On Lantus, I was fond of saying that Neko's Lantus nadir was anywhere from +3 to +13, though more commonly +7 to +9. Bounce breaking cycles tend to have later nadirs, or just because CAT!
My other cat has rx for urinary Crystal prevention. I can’t feed him the same as Lynx.
That sounds like what my situation was. My second cat had his first idiopathic cystitis episode one week after Neko got her FD diagnosis. Guess he didn't want her having all the attention. Vet put him on the high carb prescription food. Neko pushed him out of the way after she wolfed down her food. I was going nuts doing the food police thing. I asked the vet what food both could eat, and she recommended raw, with extra water added. After reading the link @squeem3 posted above on Catinfo, I realized any low carb and preferably lower phosphorus food with extra water would work for both.

One final thought, Lantus works really great at giving you flat cycles when you have a lower preshot. I grew to love the lower preshot cycles as it was much more predictable than the ones starting high. However, when you are new, we suggest working your way down to how low a preshot you shoot. You need the data to be able to comfortably shoot lower.
 
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