Nico 2.0 | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

Nico 2.0

Tyleete

Tyleete

Member since 2025
Hello again!
I was asked to make another thread and to just attach the last to it.
So welcome to Nico 2.0
Questions I so have.
We changed him up to half a unit more just Friday evening. From 1 to 1.5 units twice a day.
His numbers are still very high. If it is going to help, would it be instant or will it take time to show? How long do I wait with numbers still so high? I just feel so disappointed after his numbers are still what I call devastating.
And I'm looking at replacing my boy's pet test meter by Advocate, with a Relion. But they're configured to humans. So how do I make that work for knowing what's good and bad?
I think that's it. Going to sleep with another 500's night. Another pic of my little man for the new thread. Thanks again to all that have helped so much.❤️
Intro Nico pt.1
 

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What type of testing am I suppose to do tomorrow?
I know to test before he eats & gets his insulin both times. Should I be testing at any other time? :(
 
Do they normally feel hot? He hasn't had a fever any of the times he's been in, but for the last couple of months he's been sleeping on the house's vents and the hard floor in the bedroom.
I mean, he spends time up with me in bed, and also in other cubbies. But my old guy that passed from bone marrow cancer did this right at the end. And so it makes me so nervous when I see him do it.😬
 

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I don't want to give my opinion as I am not familiar with Prozinc, so can't give any dosing advice.
I know if this was my cat I'd be giving more insulin, until Nico is getting better numbers.
@Suzanne & Darcy is the expert, who you'll get great advice from.

You're doing great with testing so far! Be sure to get a test or two in in the PM, as kitties can go lower at night.

With Prozinc, the onset, when insulin starts being effective is 2 hours after the shot. But I have limited knowlodge and just wanted to give you a response and some encouragement!
 
Lara & Luciole (Lu) said:
I don't want to give my opinion as I am not familiar with Prozinc, so can't give any dosing advice.
I know if this was my cat I'd be giving more insulin, until Nico is getting better numbers.
@Suzanne & Darcy is the expert, who you'll get great advice from.

You're doing great with testing so far! Be sure to get a test or two in in the PM, as kitties can go lower at night.

With Prozinc, the onset, when insulin starts being effective is 2 hours after the shot. But I have limited knowlodge and just wanted to give you a response and some encouragement!
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Thanks!
Suzanne was the one to suggest just going up to the 1.5. But we'll see if she thinks different after yet another 600+ night. I think she said it can take a few days? It's all very confusing to me still. He keeps losing weight. It just sucks. I can't imagine how he feels. :(
 
Tyleete said:
Hello again!
I was asked to make another thread and to just attach the last to it.
So welcome to Nico 2.0
Questions I so have.
We changed him up to half a unit more just Friday evening. From 1 to 1.5 units twice a day.
His numbers are still very high. If it is going to help, would it be instant or will it take time to show? How long do I wait with numbers still so high? I just feel so disappointed after his numbers are still what I call devastating.
And I'm looking at replacing my boy's pet test meter by Advocate, with a Relion. But they're configured to humans. So how do I make that work for knowing what's good and bad?
I think that's it. Going to sleep with another 500's night. Another pic of my little man for the new thread. Thanks again to all that have helped so much.❤️
Intro Nico pt.1
Click to expand...
He is so cute!
 
Okay. Nico is being stubborn! I understand that.

Question: where is the curve data from the other day? Didn’t you test every two hours. I don’t see it on the spreadsheet.
 
It was the 17th. I had been on the phone to the vet when she'd said to stop with the curve after I'd done the preshot test and the +2, +4, & +6 with disastrous results.
Said to increase and wait to try again. :(
That I wouldn't get any better readings at a +8 and above.
Today was awful because at his +5 reading was seemingly pointless after the 'HI' reading to me to do both 4 & 6, so went with your 5 idea from other day. Luckily I had 2 testers, because 1 died on me and so I had to stab him again. And again when the strip said not enough blood, and gave an error code. And again because the strip was in too long with no result before I could give his ear another prick. I hate this system and will be picking up a Relion to compare it tomorrow.
Told him I wouldn't stab him again tonight, because what's the use with those numbers. There is NO chance of him going hypo.😑
 
I’m so sorry. I can see how upset you are. He’s likely been diabetic for quite a while and we cannot get immediate control (unfortunately). Did you get a ketone test today?
 
So if you cannot test him any more tonight then we can’t increase insulin. We will need to increase when you can get a few tests. Tomorrow? Since you have done a very good job of getting some tests with the 1.5 dose and he has been on it for 4 cycles now, we can fast track his dose this time. I would go ahead with the increase to 2 units now that you have documented that he isn’t having a strong reaction to the 1.5 units.
 
Not yet. I'm going to take the lids off all the litter boxes before I feed him his food tonight and try to get a sample like I did last time.
I just hate doing this to him.
And he first started acting out of sorts all the way back in March of this year. We thought it was because he'd just lost his 3rd and final brother in the last 7mo and was depressed. She gave exams and a thyroid test. Nothing showed up. Till October, when he'd lost an additional 2lbs. So yeah, it's probably been a long time.
Am I to stay at the 1.5? If so, for how long if his numbers don't improve? If the 1.5 was good, would we see results right away or does it take a while?
Thanks.
 
When you do the increase to 2 units, please get a +4 and +6 test. Okay?

I feel your frustration. With my cat having a high dose condition that made him insulin resistant, I spent a long time say “the insulin is doing nothing for him… nothing!” I was really upset. So I am not unsympathetic about this at all!

We will help him into healthier numbers!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
So if you cannot test him any more tonight then we can’t increase insulin. We will need to increase when you can get a few tests. Tomorrow? Since you have done a very good job of getting some tests with the 1.5 dose and he has been on it for 4 cycles now, we can fast track his dose this time. I would go ahead with the increase to 2 units now that you have documented that he isn’t having a strong reaction to the 1.5 units.
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Sorry I'm always writing a resound at the same time it seems.
If I were to increase it tonight, how much testing would I have to do? I just beat him up so bad earlier, I feel miserable. But I don't want him feeling bad any longer than he has to either.
 
Tyleete said:
Not yet. I'm going to take the lids off all the litter boxes before I feed him his food tonight and try to get a sample like I did last time.
I just hate doing this to him.
And he first started acting out of sorts all the way back in March of this year. We thought it was because he'd just lost his 3rd and final brother in the last 7mo and was depressed. She gave exams and a thyroid test. Nothing showed up. Till October, when he'd lost an additional 2lbs. So yeah, it's probably been a long time.
Am I to stay at the 1.5? If so, for how long if his numbers don't improve? If the 1.5 was good, would we see results right away or does it take a while?
Thanks.
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This makes me sad. You really have been through so much this past year with your cats! I am so sorry. And it sounds like you have your hands full still caring for cats with health conditions. I have been going through a ton of stuff with my cats recently too and sympathize. Serious (and weird) health conditions…. But that’s for another day. Right now I want to focus on Nico.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
When you do the increase to 2 units, please get a +4 and +6 test. Okay?

I feel your frustration. With my cat having a high dose condition that made him insulin resistant, I spent a long time say “the insulin is doing nothing for him… nothing!” I was really upset. So I am not unsympathetic about this at all!

We will help him into healthier numbers!
Click to expand...
Ok , so I'll have to wait till tomorrow then, as I give him his shots at 7:30. I really don't want to be up at 1:30am.😅
So do I do the pretest shot before his am feeding in the morning? Since I know it won't be anything less than 409, but probably between 500-600? I know the need for the tests, but that one right before I change his dose seems a bit of painful, uselessness to me.
Thanks
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
This makes me sad. You really have been through so much this past year with your cats! I am so sorry. And it sounds like you have your hands full still caring for cats with health conditions. I have been going through a ton of stuff with my cats recently too and sympathize. Serious (and weird) health conditions…. But that’s for another day. Right now I want to focus on Nico.
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I actually lost 4 seniors in that 7mo time frame. 2 were favorites. Bone marrow cancer, blood clot, skin cancer (on top of her HT and well managed of 4yrs scl gi), and congestive heart failure. It's been an AWFUL year.
I was hoping for just a little down time. :(
 
Tyleete said:
So do I do the pretest shot before his am feeding in the morning? Since I know it won't be anything less than 409, but probably between 500-600? I know the need for the tests, but that one right before I change his dose seems a bit of painful, uselessness to me.
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Well we can’t know what the insulin is doing for him unless we know what his starting point is. We need to know how much the drop is.
 
Tyleete said:
I give him his shots at 7:30. I really don't want to be up at 1:30am.😅
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Understood. And many cats drop into lower numbers at night. He is so high right now that “lower” probably doesn’t mean much. When he is in good numbers though, I can’t always promise you a night of uninterrupted sleep! 😉
 
Okay. So we have a plan. Increase to 2 units tomorrow morning, test at preshot and +4 and +6, give food during the cycle as previously discussed and …. Possibly switch to the ReliOn meter?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Okay. So we have a plan. Increase to 2 units tomorrow morning, test at preshot and +4 and +6, give food during the cycle as previously discussed and …. Possibly switch to the ReliOn meter?
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I got this!
Maybe. I'll start tomorrow then. Feed at +2, 4, & 6, right?
I'm going to send my husband out to get the meter as I'll be at home tending to Nico. It's a 25min drive into town each way. We live in the woods/boondocks.
Thank you
 
Tyleete said:
Ok, so is it ok to wait for morning? Or will I be causing him further harm by waiting? That way I can do the pre testing as well as the 4 & 6?
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It sounds like both of you deserve a peaceful evening! I think it will be okay to wait until tomorrow morning, although I understand how anxious you are to see better numbers. I will also be so excited to see them!
 
Tyleete said:
I got this!
Maybe. I'll start tomorrow then. Feed at +2, 4, & 6, right?
I'm going to send my husband out to get the meter as I'll be at home tending to Nico. It's a 25min drive into town each way. We live in the woods/boondocks.
Thank you
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Yep. And just make sure he knows exactly what to buy when he gets there 🙂 or prepurchase the stuff and have it ready at the store to pick up.
 
Tyleete said:
Oh! Why is it there numbers tend to be lower in the night? I was just wondering.
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It’s just a phenomenon that we see in many, but not all cats. We will see if Nico is one of them. I am sure it has something to do with their circadian rhythm. And for some cats, not eating at night contributes to this.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
It’s just a phenomenon that we see in many, but not all cats. We will see if Nico is one of them. I am sure it has something to do with their circadian rhythm. And for some cats, not eating at night contributes to this.
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So the eating does raise the numbers, which is why the vets still believe that regular feeding is bad throughout the day? And why it's not great to feed past the +6?
 
Not eating anything definitely causes blood sugar to go down (to a point) but that is not really healthy. Feeding low carb food should not raise BG in a significant way, especially when there’s insulin on board acting to lower BG — so just like in a non-diabetic cat, first you eat food and your blood glucose goes up (a small amount with low carb food and a lot more with high carb food) then the pancreas produces insulin to drive the glucose into the cells and out of the bloodstream. The thing about not feeding after nadir is because you want to feed most of the food when the insulin is acting pretty strongly.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Not eating anything definitely causes blood sugar to go down (to a point) but that is not really healthy. Feeding low carb food should not raise BG in a significant way, especially when there’s insulin on board acting to lower BG — so just like in a non-diabetic cat, first you eat food and your blood glucose goes up (a small amount with low carb food and a lot more with high carb food) then the pancreas produces insulin to drive the glucose into the cells and out of the bloodstream. The thing about not feeding after nadir is because you want to feed most of the food when the insulin is acting pretty strongly.
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Gotcha. And thanks for the explanation
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Not eating anything definitely causes blood sugar to go down (to a point) but that is not really healthy. Feeding low carb food should not raise BG in a significant way, especially when there’s insulin on board acting to lower BG — so just like in a non-diabetic cat, first you eat food and your blood glucose goes up (a small amount with low carb food and a lot more with high carb food) then the pancreas produces insulin to drive the glucose into the cells and out of the bloodstream. The thing about not feeding after nadir is because you want to feed most of the food when the insulin is acting pretty strongly.
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Just got a pee test for him.
No ketones! I guess this won't be that hard to do with him. I just have to sit close by to know. Got pee on my hand, but my only comment was... Man, I'm a dedicated cat mum.😅
I'm just about to do his +6 test, so will do it first and then send this off. Poor fella.

Oh for the love of!
It's 'HI'. 🤬 Is it the good I'm feeding him? It's just chicken breasts from the grocery store cooked! With EZ Complete added to it. That shouldn't even have any carbs, should it?😭
 
Tyleete said:
Just got a pee test for him.
No ketones! I guess this won't be that hard to do with him. I just have to sit close by to know. Got pee on my hand, but my only comment was... Man, I'm a dedicated cat mum.😅
I'm just about to do his +6 test, so will do it first and then send this off. Poor fella.

Oh for the love of!
It's 'HI'. 🤬 Is it the good I'm feeding him? It's just chicken breasts from the grocery store cooked! With EZ Complete added to it. That shouldn't even have any carbs, should it?😭
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I’m sorry about the Hi. I was just looking at his SS and the clock and trying to figure out if it was time for the +6 test yet. I was excited and now am disappointed!

You are doing nothing wrong! He just needs time to adjust to everything, including the new insulin. We can move faster than normal because of his high numbers, but it’s not good to move too quickly. I would like three solid days (6 cycles) of data before his next increase. Normally, we would hold the dose for seven days, but in Nico’s case I want to see him out of the black.
 
Ok, input last night's dose. Sorry about that.
When my husband brought home the relion one, I self tested it on myself, twice.
Then when I went to test it on him? I used his pet one first, then immediately tried the relion. 2 errors & after that his blood had dried.😑 I wasn't sticking him again just for that. Figured I'd wait till I test before his next food/shot again. I am supposed to test that too tonight, right?
I want his numbers better too, but agree. No sense in risking extra by rushing this. I just feel so bad for him.
Is feeding him the cooked chicken making him high? It's for humans. Had no bones or skin. I think the sodium's between 40-60. I read to keep it under 80 tops when selecting meat for them. He did get too much at his +4 feeding. Could that effect it? Neither cash wanted to eat much of the pork this morning, so I tossed that 6oz and got a fresh bag. Wasn't sure he'd eat it, so I brought out a half portion of the pork like I have been trying to remnant during his +2, 4, & 6 feedings. But then he also had 1/2 a serving (6 nibs) if a pork freeze dried raw food by Stella & Chewy. I put it out, in case he didn't want the cooked pork. But he ate them both.
Is the pork hurting his numbers? :(
 
I think that you are stressing way too much over the food right now. His numbers are super high and the small amount of difference that feeding him a little too much or a few more carbs is not a big deal. We just have to keep pressing on with the insulin and trying to be patient.
 
Oh, one other trick that you can try when doing an ear test is that… when you get some blood on his ear, you can scrape it onto the top of your thumb nail and touch the end of the test strip to the blood on your nail. Just make sure your hands are clean when you begin (which I am sure you already do.) This would mean you could let his ear go a few seconds earlier and it might keep the blood from dissipating into his fur and drying up.

Another thing that can help blood to bead up is to apply a small bot of vaseline to the ear before testing.
 
And don’t push the test strip all the way into the meter until right when you are ready to touch the end of the strip to the blood drop — just put the strip in part way. Otherwise the meter may time out.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I think that you are stressing way too much over the food right now. His numbers are super high and the small amount of difference that feeding him a little too much or a few more carbs is not a big deal. We just have to keep pressing on with the insulin and trying to be patient.
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Good grief. Doing as much reading about diabetes in cats, and just read it's BAD to vigorously shake your bottle.
Guess what I've been doing?
I read it could have an effect on its potency? Does this mean his bottle is bad now?
 
This is currently my bottle.
I could kick myself. And the clinics label was covering any instructions on the side.😭
Is this useless? Do I even bother giving it to him still?
 

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No insulin should ever be shaken. Insulins that are suspensions, like ProZInc, should be gently rolled a few times to mix it up before drawing out a dose.

If you think the shaking might have affected the insulin (and maybe the reason for the high numbers), it would be best to get a new prescription. You can buy ProZinc from Chewy's pharmacy. You'll have to provide the vet's phone number so they can confirm the prescription. https://www.chewy.com/s?query=prozinc&nav-submit-button=
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
And don’t push the test strip all the way into the meter until right when you are ready to touch the end of the strip to the blood drop — just put the strip in part way. Otherwise the meter may time out.
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I'm so confused now whether I should even be giving him what I have. It could explain why his numbers are still so bad, no?
I texted the vet and she said it won't harm him to give him this possibly damaged stuff until the new bottle comes in? Does that sound right?
That means I'm going to have to start him back at 1 unit, doesn't it? Because if this was damaged from the start which takes away its stability and potency, a proper bottle might work at 1 unit? Read hypo can happen if this occurs
 
squeem3 said:
No insulin should ever be shaken. Insulins that are suspensions, like ProZInc, should be gently rolled a few times to mix it up before drawing out a dose.

If you think the shaking might have affected the insulin (and maybe the reason for the high numbers), it would be best to get a new prescription. You can buy ProZinc from Chewy's pharmacy. You'll have to provide the vet's phone number so they can confirm the prescription. https://www.chewy.com/s?query=prozinc&nav-submit-button=
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I did just place an order, but it's after clinic hours, and then between processing it'll be a min of 2 days. Thanks though. Hoping. But now thinking, do I have to go back to 1 unit? That's what he started at for a while. I've read they can drop dangerously low when doing this
 
The insulin might have the strength of water so, no, it won't hurt your cat. Just expect high numbers. @Suzanne & Darcy can recommend what dose to keep NIco at until you get the new bottle and what dose to give once you do get the bottle.
 
You should just roll the vial of ProZinc on the counter before injecting. As long as you don’t see little particles in the vial and it looks clear, it’s probably okay.
 
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