10/9 Egon Pmps 72 +2 76 +3 74 +4 69 +6 56 +7 63 +10 67 amps 82 shot full dose, hoping for guidance before pmps | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

10/9 Egon Pmps 72 +2 76 +3 74 +4 69 +6 56 +7 63 +10 67 amps 82 shot full dose, hoping for guidance before pmps

Mady & Egon

Mady & Egon

Member since 2025
Last post
Something kept me up worrying last night. I’m not exactly sure why more than usual. I just feel I’ve been distracted from his numbers by life stuff, and I did an increase when I shouldn’t have last week, and that all led to extra worry last night… then he actually went lower than I expected.

could someone remind me the rules on when to feed or to wait for it to go lower and then feed? I’m not really 100% sure on when to wait and when to feed. I finally gave him a little fancy feast at +6.

He’s been very bouncy lately. Should I reduce at amps?
 
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Briana + Binx said:
What a cycle! Hope you’re able to get some rest today.

Interested to see what advice you get, as I wonder the same.
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Thank you briana. Sometimes in the late low cycles I start to worry about missing a sign and an extra low cycle while I’m fast asleep… really keeps me up sometimes…. Especially since I hear IAA can break suddenly and fast. I think I got an hour here and there last night. Just glad my FD instincts fired to keep doing one more test. Theres unfortunately just so much hoping for the best….. luckily he was surfing around 70 and not around 40/50. I get itchy feet when it starts heading that way.
 
Per the TR protocol it looks like we didn’t earn a reduction - I should have not fed and waited to see if he dipped into 40/50 territory?

  • If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit.
  • Alternatively, attempt a reduction when the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a non-diabetic healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL) while staying under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week.
So I am going to guess that I keep the current dose then… I hope someone with experience can weigh in and confirm before Pmps. Luckily I have the ability to monitor closely today although I am tired after a long night of testing…
 
I don't have any experience with Acro, IAA etc. Hoping Wendy will be around later and give you IAA-specific advice.

Generally, you want to use food to keep a cat at a "good dose" - a dose where it can spend as much time as possible in greens as they are healing. Numbers are bound to dive without food. Using food to flatten the curve is recommended. As for feeding times, the general rule is to feed more before the nadir (which can vary from cat to cat and cycle to cycle!) and avoid feeding after the nadir (if possible).

Using Food to Manipulate the Curve

He hasn't earned a reduction with TR. The rules for earning a reduction that you have reproduced above are correct.
 
Taking notes:

By using food in this manner, you can end up in a situation where there are very low numbers because you have been preventing dose reductions. So in addition to knowing all of the above about your cat, you also need to have the skill and fortitude to know you can steer the curve, in some cases rather aggressively, if you need to. This is not a strategy I recommend for someone who is new at managing their cat's diabetes and/or is new to Lantus.


why would you want to manipulate the curve with food?
--- bouncers: kitties who drop low and then bounce to the moon benefit from food manipulation. using food to manipulate the curve will tend to flatten out the curve. flattening out the curve helps to prevent huge bounces.
--- carb sensitive kitties: kitties who experience large food spikes when consuming even lc benefit from manipulating the curve with food. strategically spacing out meal times will help flatten out the curve.

carb manipulation is more about learning what your cat's response is to varying amounts of carbs at different times during the cycle, and using that information to your advantage. Learn how many points bump she gets from LC, MC, and HC, both early in the cycle and later in the cycle. Use that information to guide her cycles the way you want them to go.
i'd rather see kitty "earn" a reduction from maintaining lower BGs with a flatter cycle for a week than to reduce the dose based on a single drop below 50 when the rest of the cycle's numbers remain high

If my cat was dropping fast or was lower and coming down, I, personally, wouldn't go to bed without at least setting an alarm for the next test, until he/she was fairly flat and stable on LC food or headed up and I was at or past nadir.
 
Thank you @Bandit's Mom ! I knew this existed and couldn’t find it last night by searching “feeding the curve” Ok so I am gathering that I didn’t want to feed the curve unless I HAD to with a dip below 50/40 and last night I was possibly preventing full dose action. But I’m hoping that I’m training his body to ride low curves and we can keep green curves like that for a week (although a week of numbers like that would have me SLEEPLESS) Last night was nice low and flat all things considered.

I don’t have enough data, nor am I sure my brain can ever store this much data about my cat, on how each type of food effects him so I’d rather keep it for when I really have to.

I am concerned that most nights I really can’t stay this attentive all night. How is it possible to ride the edge of hypo long-term? Lots of staying up nights? Hoping you really understand numbers enough to have strong educated predictions? (wild numbers are always possible though!!)
 
Look at all that lovely green! Jill always has good quotes.

As a general rule of thumb, we suggest giving a tsp or two of their regular LC food when they first hit green. This can help them surf or hang out in those healing numbers. An IAA kitty's pancreas can heal, more time in green is usually beneficial for IAA kitties too, seems to help keep the antibodies at bay. Without serious greenage, the dose keeps climbing. For now, this dose looks good.

Once you learn how Egon handles LC, MC, and HC at various times in the cycle, you can use that information overnight to keep him safe. You might need to change the timing of the autofeeder and what carb % goes in each slot to keep him safe.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Look at all that lovely green! Jill always has good quotes.

As a general rule of thumb, we suggest giving a tsp or two of their regular LC food when they first hit green. This can help them surf or hang out in those healing numbers. An IAA kitty's pancreas can heal, more time in green is usually beneficial for IAA kitties too, seems to help keep the antibodies at bay. Without serious greenage, the dose keeps climbing. For now, this dose looks good.

Once you learn how Egon handles LC, MC, and HC at various times in the cycle, you can use that information overnight to keep him safe. You might need to change the timing of the autofeeder and what carb % goes in each slot to keep him safe.
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Right now the feeder is set for amps +4 +8, pmps etc…

I see that someone in this feeding the curve post recommend not feeding after +6 — but we set this feeding schedule because he typically has a late nadir. He still seems to be nadiring late. Should I keep the feeding schedule or try front loading food earlier? I am worried about changing too much at once. I start to lose track of which variables are changing what… I want to keep him safe. Technically he is safe now. He didn’t go below 50 even. Am I just being too precautious?
 
Mady & Egon said:
n this feeding the curve post recommend not feeding after +6 — but we set this feeding schedule because he typically has a late nadir. He still seems to be nadiring late. Should I keep the feeding schedule or try front loading food earlier?
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You need to feed for what works for Egon. Know Thy Cat. The guideline for not feeding after +6 should really read "not feeding after nadir". +6 is just a "typical Lantus nadir". Neko wasn't typical either.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You need to feed for what works for Egon. Know Thy Cat. The guideline for not feeding after +6 should really read "not feeding after nadir". +6 is just a "typical Lantus nadir". Neko wasn't typical either.
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Ok I think I’ll keep it where it’s at for now then. It seems to be working well for him. And I’ll try to be less cautious and not feed the curve and hopefully we do see more nights like last night. And I just need to prepare myself for less sleep 😅

Staci & Ivy said:
I hope you get some answers, Mady! And I hope you can get some rest. :bighug:
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Thank you Staci!!
 
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