Previous post
I don't even want to say anything about it because I don't want to j-word it
Wishing you all a safe and boring Monday!
Thank you, you get it!I hear you loud and clear. What could you possibly mean?!?
this is what Kobe gets.
I am not an expert, but salmon has really good Omega 3 fatty acids? But fish every day is dangerous because of mercury? I give Kobe a little squirt of fish oil every day and I think it makes a difference. I can't prove it, because I don't have any recent data where he wasn't on it. I think that there is something magically regulatory about fish oil and there are other members who use it too. I know, because I checked before I went and bought some sketchy snake oil from the internet.
There's a post for that (linked in the New to the Group Sticky Note):
With Neko it was a complete emotional roller coaster. She'd give me a hint of nice numbers, then retreat back to her favourite pink/red/black zone. 
It'd take a couple increases before the nice numbers showed up again. Eventually those nice numbers appeared for longer and longer stretches, and her body got used to them. In the mean time, pink was her happy zone. I could tell when she was in low pinks, cause that's when she'd start playing. 
So happy when that changed.
I have so much sympathy for you Jess
I have been there. Most of Feb I was in that dreadful pink zone. Exhausting and demoralizing
My guess is you are dealing with glucose toxicity and insulin resistance.
If you want to learn more on the medical side (what is actually going in in Charlie's body) see links on this Sticky: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-what-is-it-what-should-i-do-about-it.144381/
When a diabetic animal is hyperglycemic for long enough, the animal's damaged tissues may start having trouble using insulin. This in turn means that even a well-dosed animal may continue to have high blood sugar, leading to even more insulin resistance.From here: https://petdiabetes.fandom.com/wiki/Glucose_toxicity (one of the linked articles in the Sticky).
Various methods through this "glass floor" have been tried, to varying degrees of success. One way is to continue gradually raising insulin dosage until the tissues pick up the insulin and start absorbing glucose, then quickly back off to a lower dose. Another is to "jumpstart" the process with a fast-acting insulin or a deliberately high dose of the regular insulin, then quickly back off to a lower dose. Another is to reduce the carbohydrate content of the food further, or to eliminate dry food entirely (even low-carb dry food), thereby presenting less of an obstacle for insulin effectiveness and reducing insulin needs. Aggressive attempts to break glucose toxicity are best regarded as dangerous and should be addressed in close partnership with a diabetes-experienced veterinarian.
Basically you are in a bit of a vicious circle where his continued high numbers are making him more resistant to insulin, and because he is more resistant to insulin he has higher numbers. As I understand it here on FDMB the preferred safer approach to get out of this awful loop (rather than the more radical and risky interventions) is adopting low carb foods, which you have done already, and then the continual gradual raising of the dose, which you are busy doing - and just have to *keep doing* until the cycle breaks.
I know it can feel like you are going mad when you not only see no progress but the numbers are actually getting worse. But it is not that you are doing something wrong, it's the medical reality of the condition. You've at the stage when you are pushing and pushing at the "glass floor" and its just not ready to break yet.
Which means you just have to be patient and proceed with the increases - until you eventually get to the right dose. It happened for Noogi.
Sorry for the long post. My way of coping with FD-related stress is researching and explaining things - as much to myself as to others. I hope I have understood this correctly. If not I hope moderators or more experienced members correct me and/or add more nuance.
Lastly, I know there are some medical conditions like acromegaly that can cause extreme insulin resistance. Lots of info on this site about that, so maybe read about it just in case it might be a factor for Charlie. My guy had a blood test for it as he was extremely insulin resistant in the beginning too and the vet wanted to eliminate it.
. I assume that many of us who are active on this forum are similar in that we find comfort when we can understand a little better how something works. I plan on reading up a bit more on glucose toxicity and acromegaly once I've calmed down. Sometimes if I'm not in the right headspace to research stuff I can end up scaring or overwhelming myself haha.
There's a post for that (linked in the New to the Group Sticky Note):
Summary answer, ECID but likely no. Usually cats actually do better on some carbs. People here typically feed in the 3-6% range.
Cats are all different, Charlie needs the amount of insulin that his body needs. Every cat here finds a dose that moves them. We just don't know what that is for Charlie yet. Insulin is a hormone, not a drug. It's not like you can see gradual improvements with each increase. You just have to keep increasing per the protocol until you reach that fitting dose. Having said that, Charlie probably saw 9 hours sub 300 last night, which is progress.
I can relate to how you feel.
. I'm glad it was a peaceful and warm day and she was at home and comfortable.
I remember one really bouncy cat, could go from blacks to greens and back to reds in one cycle. He got sick with pancreatitis and his mom had to give him A/D to get over it. A/D is 12%. He flattened out on the MC, got used to greens, and went OTJ. That is just one example of slightly higher carbs working. It was sort of a case of feeding the curve. Charlie doesn't have that kind of spreadsheet though. I think he just needs more insulin. Cats can vary wildly in how carb sensitive they are. Just remember than food experiments can take a few weeks - don't just try a few days of something. As the saying goes, Lantus teaches patience.
Neko's last day was December, it wasn't particularly warm outside. But the snow stopped and sun came out, I was able to go outside and shovel the snow off the top of the solarium, making it toasty warm inside. It was her favourite spot. Seemed appropriate. After the vet left, the snow started up again. We don't get much snow here, but I was glad the sun peaked through at the end for her.
I wish so badly that we could talk to them and comfort them/ask them how they’re feeling every day! Though I’m sure they wouldn’t tell us truthfully anyway, haha.I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I get you, I'm there too. We just want to help them, and rely so much on those numbers to show us we are making progress for them.
Any chance your handsome boy may be allergic to chicken? I suspect Petey is, everytime he ate it he would get pretty lethargic and just seemed off, so I just do rabbit now. I give some fish oil every day too, it can help.
We're gonna get them there!
Thanks Brianna, that's exactly right. Every time I see a high number my brain screams "DO SOMETHING!!" at me, but there's nothing to be doneYou've gotten some really good info and advice already, but I just wanted to say that I feel for you so much, Jess. I know exactly how you're feeling. It's so hard and discouraging to see awful numbers day and in and day out and be told to be patient when it feels like we should be DOING something. We are doing something, but when there's no evidence of it it feels hopeless. I'm so sorry you're having to feel that.
So many kitty's spreadsheets show this exact same thing (and even periods of it mixed in to good stretches) and it at least helps remind me that most people went through this and one day it just... flipped and started working. It might feel good for you to go into people's spreadsheets and just go back to the beginning and see how long it took for others. It has helped me, anyway. Not every day feels very positive, but at least sometimes they do.
I need to find some other small wins to celebrate instead of good numbers, since they're so fleeting right now. Or at least work on not getting my hopes up when I see one.
Looking at spreadsheets has been helpful most days, but sometimes my brain just wants to cause problems and catastrophize no matter what I do
You're not alone in that, at least!! 