When to stop insulin

Cindy & Ivan

Cindy & Ivan

Member
So my boy Ivan was diagnosed with diabetics last week. I changed his food to fancy feast pate & we started him on insulin. He is 16 lbs. we started giving him. 1.5 units of insulin. The fist couple of days it was 460 & then, 220, then 440. we upped it to 2 units last night & he was 71 this morning before any food.
I have him just 1 unit of insulin. so how do you tapper insulin back if cat starts going into remission?
 
Cindy Hollingshead said:
So my boy Ivan was diagnosed with diabetics last week. I changed his food to fancy feast pate & we started him on insulin. He is 16 lbs. we started giving him. 1.5 units of insulin. The fist couple of days it was 460 & then, 220, then 440. we upped it to 2 units last night & he was 71 this morning before any food.
I have him just 1 unit of insulin. so how do you tapper insulin back if cat starts going into remission?
Click to expand...
Welcome to FDF, We need to know a bit more about Ivan, what insulin you are using, is he DKA, it's important that you feed a diabetic cat a diet between 0-10% carbs Fancy Feast is a great choice, we would like you to create your signature and spreadsheet this way you and the forum can monitor how the insulin is working in Ivan, Do not increase or decrease insulin according to the BG, you want to have a stability in BG numbers at all times, it takes about 3 cycles to determine that, are you home testing? I assume you are since you have readings, it is important to test before each shot, you do not want to give insulin without knowing Ivan's BG, below are several links for you, to create your signature and spreadsheet, also a carb calculator and a Drs, food list, the third column on the list contains the carbs%, we are here for you, so keep asking, we need to know what insulin you are using, so I can direct you to the correct member to help you with dosing:bighug::cat::cat:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/spreadsheets-tech-support-testing-area.6/
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
Cat Food Nutrition Calculator | Elizabeth C Scheyder
 
Cindy Hollingshead said:
So my boy Ivan was diagnosed with diabetics last week. I changed his food to fancy feast pate & we started him on insulin. He is 16 lbs. we started giving him. 1.5 units of insulin. The fist couple of days it was 460 & then, 220, then 440. we upped it to 2 units last night & he was 71 this morning before any food.
I have him just 1 unit of insulin. so how do you tapper insulin back if cat starts going into remission?
Click to expand...

Just because a diabetic cat has a low BG number does not mean remission, in your case Ivan had too much insulin, and change in dose can cause radical BG numbers, click below on Corky's Spreadsheet in blue Corky is far from remission, he will, probably, after 3 years on insulin where he started at 650BG, he is now where he needs to be for a diabetic cat in those green numbers, his pancreas are healing, but he will most likely be a lifetime diabetic, he's stabilized by insulin. his numbers to be on remission is to lower the dose in slowly increments of 0.25u at a time until BG numbers stay in the very low green numbers throughout cycles without insulin.:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
CORKY said:
Just because a diabetic cat has a low BG number does not mean remission, in your case Ivan had too much insulin, and change in dose can cause radical BG numbers, click below on Corky's Spreadsheet in blue Corky is far from remission, he will, probably, after 3 years on insulin where he started at 650BG, he is now where he needs to be for a diabetic cat in those green numbers, his pancreas are healing, but he will most likely be a lifetime diabetic, he's stabilized by insulin. his numbers to be on remission is to lower the dose in slowly increments of 0.25u at a time until BG numbers stay in the very low green numbers throughout cycles without insulin.:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
Click to expand...
You also should have handy what is called a HYHPO KIT this should include some medium carb food between 11-15% carbs and some High carb foods between 16-24% carbs KARO Syrup or honey, this is in case Ivan's BG goes below 50, we can help you along the way how to stabilize him back to safe numbers with food, if this were to happen you will post with a 911 in your title so members that are on line can help thru it.:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
CORKY said:
Welcome to FDF, We need to know a bit more about Ivan, what insulin you are using, is he DKA, it's important that you feed a diabetic cat a diet between 0-10% carbs Fancy Feast is a great choice, we would like you to create your signature and spreadsheet this way you and the forum can monitor how the insulin is working in Ivan, Do not increase or decrease insulin according to the BG, you want to have a stability in BG numbers at all times, it takes about 3 cycles to determine that, are you home testing? I assume you are since you have readings, it is important to test before each shot, you do not want to give insulin without knowing Ivan's BG, below are several links for you, to create your signature and spreadsheet, also a carb calculator and a Drs, food list, the third column on the list contains the carbs%, we are here for you, so keep asking, we need to know what insulin you are using, so I can direct you to the correct member to help you with dosing:bighug::cat::cat:



Thank you for the welcome.
I am using Lantus insulin. No he was not DKA. Ivan was on Hill's Prescription Diet
c/d for unitary track health.
He is now on Fancy Feast pate canned cat food.
Yes I would like a spreadsheet. Thank you.
Yes I am home testing his Blood glucose. Every day before his meal.
What is 3 cycles?
Again, thank you.
Click to expand...
 
Corky


Thank you for the welcome.
I am using Lantus insulin. No he was not DKA. Ivan was on Hill's Prescription Diet
c/d for unitary track health.
He is now on Fancy Feast pate canned cat food.
Yes I would like a spreadsheet. Thank you.
Yes I am home testing his Blood glucose. Every day before his meal.
What is 3 cycles?
Again, thank you.

I’m having problems replying & posting.
 
Hi and welcome Cindy and Ivan to the forum.
It’s great you are hometesting the BGs (blood glucose)
Swapping to a low carb wet food from the high carb foods you were feeding will help a lot.
Corky has given you links to the spreadsheet and signature above. If you have any trouble setting them up just let us know and we will help you.
I answer to your questions
Cindy Hollingshead said:
What is 3 cycles?
Click to expand...
A cycle is 12 hours. It starts when you give the insulin and the next cycle starts when you give the next dose of insulin.

Cindy Hollingshead said:
Yes I am home testing his Blood glucose. Every day before his meal.
Click to expand...
The routine is to test the BG, feed the food and then give the insulin. Becasue you are giving Lantus you can give the Lantus straight after he has eaten. And if you can get some tests in during the cycle that will help us to see how low the dose is taking Ivan. Dosing is based on how low the dose takes the BG.
I am going to give you the 2 dosing methods we use with Lantus. Have a look at them and see which one suits you. Ask questions if you like to clarify this.
LANTUS DOSING METHODS
Cindy Hollingshead said:
I have him just 1 unit of insulin. so how do you tapper insulin back if cat starts going into remission?
Click to expand...
Once you have the spreadsheet set up we can see what is happening and see if he needs an increase or decrease in dose.
What are the syringes you are using? These are the correct ones
U100, 3/10ml, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings
Just because he had a BG of 71 doesn’t mean he is going into remission. If just means he might need the dose adjusted.

CORKY said:
Do not increase or decrease insulin according to the BG, you want to have a stability in BG numbers at all times, it takes about 3 cycles to determine that, are you home testing
Click to expand...
Corky wrote the above. I think she might have got a bit mixed up or not explained it well and I want to clarify it.
We definitely do increase or decrease the dose according to the BGs. We follow dosing methods which give clear guidelines.
However if the BG drops under 90 or 50 depending on which dosing method you are following, you decrease the dose immediately.
Ask as many questions as I need:)



 
The spreadsheet instructions are here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/ If you need help, @Bandit's Mom can assist you.

What led to the diabetes diagnosis? Was your cat showing typical diabetic symptoms such as urinating a lot of sugary smelling pee, weight loss but always hungry, etc? Did the vet do a fructosamine test? Did the vet give you any info on diabetes in cats?

Lantus doesn't work if you keep messing with the dose. Stick with one dose for at least 7 days unless blood glucose numbers drop way too low in a cycle and warrants a dose decrease. You may want to restart your cat at 0.5 units and slowly increase as needed. Test daily before each insulin shot and a couple times during the cycle if you can. Maybe set aside a weekend morning / afternoon to get a few blood glucose checks in. A check before bedtime is good too. Some people use the Libre meter which continuously monitors blood glucose levels. It sticks onto a shaved area of the cat and you have to replace it roughly every 2 weeks or if if falls off.
 
Welcome to FDMB!

Just a couple of items.

The separate links that Maria/Corky provided can be found in this post on helping us to help you. Having the information in one place is easier if you need to bookmark the post. Please let us know if you need help with getting the spreadsheet set up.

Squeem is correct about not making frequent dose changes with Lantus. Her guidance is primarily related to the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) dosing method.
 
@CORKY
I could use some guidance.

Ivan’s numbers:
Date. BG. Insulin
2-11 440. 1.5
2-12. 220. 1.5
2-13. 520. 1.5
2-13. 282. 2
2-14. 72. 1
2-14 142. 1.5
2-15. 277. 1.5
2-15. 191. 2
2-16. 317. 2
2-16. 374.


Every day feed canned fancy feast pate no dry food.

I’m wondering how much insulin to give next shot?

Thank you,
 
Cindy Hollingshead said:
@CORKY
I could use some guidance.

Ivan’s numbers:
Date. BG. Insulin
2-11 440. 1.5
2-12. 220. 1.5
2-13. 520. 1.5
2-13. 282. 2
2-14. 72. 1
2-14 142. 1.5
2-15. 277. 1.5
2-15. 191. 2
2-16. 317. 2
2-16. 374.


Every day feed canned fancy feast pate no dry food.

I’m wondering how much insulin to give next shot?

Thank you,
Click to expand...
I cannot give you advice on dosing I tagged one of the members that can:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
@Cindy & Ivan
Here is the information we need for your signature
Just click on your name up top and then tap signature and add this information. It's at the end of everyone's post in gray letters
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Bexacat or Senvelgo (if applicable) and dates
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

I see you set up your spreadsheet ,Can you start filling in your spreadsheet and fill in up top on your spreadsheet where it asks Date diagnosed, Insulin, Dosing method, meter you are using


This link will explain how to fill in your spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/


Then I can tag some experienced members for you to take a look at it
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@Cindy & Ivan
Here is the information we need for your signature
Just click on your name up top and then tap signature and add this information. It's at the end of everyone's post in gray letters
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Bexacat or Senvelgo (if applicable) and dates
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

I see you set up your spreadsheet ,Can you start filling in your spreadsheet and fill in up top on your spreadsheet where it asks Date diagnosed, Insulin, Dosing method, meter you are using


This link will explain how to fill in your spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/


Then I can tag some experienced members for you to take a look at it
Click to expand...

yes.
Im having trouble figuring out how to put info on to spreadsheet
 
Cindy & Ivan said:
Ok thank you. I use an iPad.
Click to expand...
Hi Cindy, welcome to FDMB! :-)

I see you have the spreadsheet set-up. These are the instructions for how to input data into it. You enter data only in the World mmol tab. The data in the US mg/dl tab is automatically calculated based on that.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/

  • Basically, each day is divided into two 12-hour cycles - the AM one and the PM one.
  • AMPS is AM preshot test.
  • U is the number of units of insulin given
  • +1, +2 etc are the tests taken after the shot so +1 is 1 hour after the shot, +2 is 2 hours after etc.
  • Similarly for the PM cycle.
I can enter the data for the last week to get you started, but I would need the shot time and the test times in addition to the date, number of units and test values that you have.
 
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