? 1/4/24 Raven AMPS 415 +4 504 +5.5 490 +7.5 469 +9 487 PMPS 445 +3 437 +4 504 Bouncing?

SophieFRA

SophieFRA

Member
Hi all,

I was so happy this morning, because Raven seemed so much better, had a great appetite and ate a larger amount of food than usual (so I had to tube feed less). His Ketones were back below the threshold at 0.5.

But I just retook his BG at +4 and it was raised significantly (by 90 points) at 504. I don’t think I gave him a fur shot. He was lying sideways in his hidey box so I had a slightly different angle but was very careful to make sure skin was tented, needle went in, and I had not hit an artery.

I didn’t take his BG in betweeen so I’m not sure whether he dropped and bounced. But he usually doesn’t go down until +3. He was and is knocked out by Gabapentin, but seems outwardly comfortable.

He did eat a larger amount of the Purina Salmon in gravy which is high in carbs. It actually used to be one of the high carb foods in my hypo toolbox. But this is what they’ve been feeding at ER and what he likes to eat (and they told me to feed whatever he will eat for now). Ketones are still at 0.5 so that’s good.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thank you!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pw2gozDXz_UhGSs897ptj3iAeUPqD-dGnxrcCwXgfWg/edit

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...nes-almost-back-to-acceptable-0-8-0-6.297145/

@Wendy&Neko @Bandit's Mom @Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
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SophieFRA said:
Hi all,

I was so happy this morning, because Raven seemed so much better, had a great appetite and ate a larger amount of food than usual (so I had to tube feed less). His Ketones were back below the threshold at 0.5.

But I just retook his BG at +4 and it was raised significantly (by 90 points) at 504. I don’t think I gave him a fur shot. He was lying sideways in his hidey box so I had a slightly different angle but was very careful to make sure skin was tented, needle went in, and I had not hit an artery.

I didn’t take his BG in betweeen so I’m not sure whether he dropped and bounced. But he usually doesn’t go down until +3. He was and is knocked out by Gabapentin, but seems outwardly comfortable.

He did eat a larger amount of the Purina Salmon in gravy which is high in carbs. It actually used to be one of the high carb foods in my hypo toolbox. But this is what they’ve been feeding at ER and what he likes to eat (and they told me to feed whatever he will eat for now). Ketones are still at 0.5 so that’s good.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thank you!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pw2gozDXz_UhGSs897ptj3iAeUPqD-dGnxrcCwXgfWg/edit

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...nes-almost-back-to-acceptable-0-8-0-6.297145/

@Wendy&Neko @Bandit's Mom @Bron and Sheba (GA)
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ps: technically he would be getting his midday food now (about 45 cals) - should I still go ahead or skip in light of high numbers?
 
Sorry no one got back to you sooner. It looks like he's just running higher a bit. Those numbers are practically within meter variance. Let him eat if he will. Food water and insulin will keep the ketones at bay :bighug::bighug:
 
Jason - Kona's Dad said:
What food is it exactly? I'm curious on how high the carbs are...
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I’m trying to figure that out and would love to find an answer because I can’t find it online. It’s

This is what he got at ER and is most palatable to him:
https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-adult-salmon-rice/dp/52885

I also got this which I got recommended by vet since he was on all raw rabbit diet before due to IBD and I’m wary of upsetting his tummy further with non-novel protein.https://www.chewy.com/royal-canin-veterinary-diet-adult/dp/35147

I usually feed him this until he stops eating and then give him some of the Purina Pro Salmon (which he likes more).

Both I believe are too high in carbs technically but vet said I had to make some tradeoffs giving his multiple conditions (acute pancreatitis with necrosis (addressed by surgery), elevated kidney values which were at stage 3-4 values acutely last week but may still go down - I’m taking him in again for blood work on Wednesday, suspected IBD due to sensitivities to diet in past (throwing up/diarrhea), and diabetes).

I’m using the RC rabbit food to syringe feed him via e-tube. Until yesterday I was using a different food I got as samples from vet which she said was good for pancreatitis, but not good for kidneys. https://www.chewy.com/hills-prescription-diet-dd-skinfood/dp/54557

it’s possible that the food switch impacted his numbers. Not sure about carbs in this one.

He’s been eating about 80 percent of his diet via e-tube until today. Today he ate more this morning so he’s getting only about 60 % via tube.

 
At +7.5 now at 469. Just got my alphattrak and did a comparison. It was 545 on alphatrak and at ER he was between 300 on low end and 500s on high end on alphatrak. So when he was in mid-500s on human meter (ie higher than he ever was at ER) on Thursday I think that definitely should have been concerning to them as a sidenote.
 
With ketones in recent history - feed that boy! And change your signature to show that he has had ketones recently.

The Hill is 17% carbs, the other two look to be 15% carbs. And could be the reason for higher numbers. I'm hoping you can find a more appropriate food for a diabetic with IBD for him. There are several canned rabbit foods out there, include ones made by Rawz, Koha, Nature's Varienty Instinct (regular had pork, LID is medium carb), Hounds & Gatos, Natures Logic, Ziwipeak (with lamb), Lotus, Identity.

It'll drive you crazy comparing meters of different types. Put the AT in the cupboard for when you need to give numbers to the vet. It'll register higher than a human meter, even more so in higher numbers.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
With ketones in recent history - feed that boy! And change your signature to show that he has had ketones recently.

The Hill is 17% carbs, the other two look to be 15% carbs. And could be the reason for higher numbers. I'm hoping you can find a more appropriate food for a diabetic with IBD for him. There are several canned rabbit foods out there, include ones made by Rawz, Koha, Nature's Varienty Instinct (regular had pork, LID is medium carb), Hounds & Gatos, Natures Logic, Ziwipeak (with lamb), Lotus, Identity.

It'll drive you crazy comparing meters of different types. Put the AT in the cupboard for when you need to give numbers to the vet. It'll register higher than a human meter, even more so in higher numbers.
Click to expand...

I even have the RAWZ Rabbit. I’m not sure if it’s ok to feed from a kidney perspective since I’m new to this. And I’m also concerned feeding any kind of raw (including canned and freezedried) in light of recommendations to not feed raw during bird flu outbreak which also has been tested in other species. As I understand Rawz is not raw but cooked at lower temperatures. I don’t know if that makes it safe.

Before this all my cats were getting raw (frozen and freezedried).


Yes I won’t use the alphatrak except for an occasional reference for vet especially when he’s very high seeing that they basically said they could not so anything with the 560 on a human meter the other day. I was just curious to try it out and get it set up.
 
SophieFRA said:
I even have the RAWZ Rabbit. I’m not sure if it’s ok to feed from a kidney perspective since I’m new to this. And I’m also concerned feeding any kind of raw (including canned and freezedried) in light of recommendations to not feed raw during bird flu outbreak which also has been tested in other species. As I understand Rawz is not raw but cooked at lower temperatures. I don’t know if that makes it safe.

Before this all my cats were getting raw (frozen and freezedried).


Yes I won’t use the alphatrak except for an occasional reference for vet especially when he’s very high seeing that they basically said they could not so anything with the 560 on a human meter the other day. I was just curious to try it out and get it set up.
Click to expand...

ps updated my signature. Had done that recently but apparently I have 2 accounts and didn‘t realize.
 
Rabbit by itself is a higher phosphorus meat. What were Raven's phosphorus numbers on his latest bloodwork?

Did the vet think he does actually have kidney disease or was it just bad kidney numbers as a result of everything else he had at the time? Dehydration or infection can make kidney numbers worse. I don't see CKD in the signature. A go to website for kidney disease is felinecrf, this is the page that lists foods. https://felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm. You want one with lower phosphorus if his phosphorus is high. On that list, the Rawz seems to have the lowest P (phosphorus) of the canned rabbits.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Rabbit by itself is a higher phosphorus meat. What were Raven's phosphorus numbers on his latest bloodwork?

Did the vet think he does actually have kidney disease or was it just bad kidney numbers as a result of everything else he had at the time? Dehydration or infection can make kidney numbers worse. I don't see CKD in the signature. A go to website for kidney disease is felinecrf, this is the page that lists foods. https://felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm. You want one with lower phosphorus if his phosphorus is high. On that list, the Rawz seems to have the lowest P (phosphorus) of the canned rabbits.
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Thanks so much for this. It sounded to me like the internist thinks the numbers might go down and can‘t yet make an assessment. However my primary vet said that she assumed he would come out of this with CDG when I brought him in to her with acute pancreatitis on 12-23 (That day his BUN was 57 and his phospherus 14.2. Later in the day ER measured BUN at 80).

The numbers they were citing to me as relevant to kidneys were crea and BUN. Just looking at phospherus now. It looks like it was all over the place. It seems to have gone down generally but it looks like on 12-31 (last bloodwork) it was higher at 10.3 up from 5 the prior day. They said they thought that worse kidney values that day were due to his lowered fluid intake (due to concerns over heart issue) which they adjusted up following this result.

His crea was 3.3 and BUN 73 (up from crea 2.8 and BUN 42 the prior day). But generally these numbers were coming down post surgery.
 
The creatinine and BUN numbers don't impact what food you give, the phosphorus does. The Crea and BUN, usually in conjunction with his urine specific gravity (USG) are kidney indicators. And also the SDMA if labs went to Idexx. And can be influenced by dehydration so you can see daily fluctuation. A phosphorus of 5 is OK.
 
Oh interesting! I really need to read more about this. Until a week ago all these values meant absolutely nothing to me. Learning something every day. Thanks so much!
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Rabbit by itself is a higher phosphorus meat. What were Raven's phosphorus numbers on his latest bloodwork?

Did the vet think he does actually have kidney disease or was it just bad kidney numbers as a result of everything else he had at the time? Dehydration or infection can make kidney numbers worse. I don't see CKD in the signature. A go to website for kidney disease is felinecrf, this is the page that lists foods. https://felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm. You want one with lower phosphorus if his phosphorus is high. On that list, the Rawz seems to have the lowest P (phosphorus) of the canned rabbits.
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Just started reading the information on this site about CKD. Very helpful!
 
SophieFRA said:
Just started reading the information on this site about CKD. Very helpful!
Click to expand...
He‘s doing the same thing he did in AM cycle in PM cycle now where he bounces (?) up at +4 - weirdly to the same number (504). It‘s particularly bizarre because I measured 40 mins earlier and it was 437 (at which point ketones were 0.6 - I didn‘t have the heart to remeasure because his poor ears are all pricked up.)

I‘m having so much trouble with the relion meter. I had to switch to that a few months ago because the care touch test strips for my old meter aren‘t available anymore. Thought it was a short term supply chain issue but no luck in the last year. My old meter required much smaller blood drops. At the frequency I measure, I need to look into a meter that uses smaller drops again to keep Raven‘s ears happy and not waste so many strips.
 
Hi Sophie, could be meter variance with those numbers, could also be food if you’re feeding around then. Good you’re seeing trends but this one seems relatively normal to me.

I had that issue with the blood amount too. You’re right it does need more blood compared to AT. It’s something we got used to. Once the ears were a little more pricked up I found they bled easier, and now a little later on we were even able to switch to smaller 33 gauge lancets.
 
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