Feline diabetes

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Brittney Sizemore

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I am new here and hoping I’m doing this correctly! I like my vet just don’t think she is educated in feline diabetes! He was started on 4 units of insulin a month ago after finding out! They put him on science dm! He is always starving so I also give him fancy feast pate but trying to take kibble away completely but he is starved acting! They have tried doing two curves they ended the first one because his sugar was so high and he was stressed and upped his doge to 4 units twice a day of vetsulin. Two weeks later no improvement they try again I knew it wouldn’t work as his stress was so high they didn’t believe me and within a few hours they were calling me to pick him up! They are giving me a freestyle libre to use to get his curve done at home but the issue is they want to sedate him! Sedate him when his sugar has been no less then 500 since beginning? That just don’t set right with me! This cat is my life! I don’t know what to do! I don’t know much but I do know that the treatment isn’t to my liking! I need to get him at least managed! Please I’m begging people to help me! He is my everything!
 
I am new here and hoping I’m doing this correctly! I like my vet just don’t think she is educated in feline diabetes! He was started on 4 units of insulin a month ago after finding out! They put him on science dm! He is always starving so I also give him fancy feast pate but trying to take kibble away completely but he is starved acting! They have tried doing two curves they ended the first one because his sugar was so high and he was stressed and upped his doge to 4 units twice a day of vetsulin. Two weeks later no improvement they try again I knew it wouldn’t work as his stress was so high they didn’t believe me and within a few hours they were calling me to pick him up! They are giving me a freestyle libre to use to get his curve done at home but the issue is they want to sedate him! Sedate him when his sugar has been no less then 500 since beginning? That just don’t set right with me! This cat is my life! I don’t know what to do! I don’t know much but I do know that the treatment isn’t to my liking! I need to get him at least managed! Please I’m begging people to help me! He is my everything!
 
Hello and welcome. First, a post for new people:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

Here we are strong believers in three things. First is a good insulin for cats, such as Prozinc or Lantus. Vetsulin aka Caninsulin in the rest of the world, is a good insulin for dogs. But it's not recommended any more for cats. We usually start on a dose more like 1 unit - 4 units is too much to start.

Second thing is home testing of blood sugars. The Libre is one option, though most people use hand held blood glucose meters. We can help you with that if you want to learn. Third thing is a good low carb food, preferably wet food or raw. The Fancy Feast pate fit the criteria for low carb food. How many cans are you giving him a day? I found feeding more smaller meals helped my starving cat. It's also possible the dose is too high and he's having to feed himself to counter the insulin. Getting home test data will help us determine if that is what is happening, or if he just needs more insulin.


Cats don't need to be sedated to put the Libre on. We have some people here who have learned to do it themselves.
 
Hi and welcome to the group. I know just how you feel, my vet was pretty clueless and as a result, my cat almost died from diabetic ketoacidosis. This group saved me and saved my boy, I owe this place a debt I will never be able to repay in full.

by finding this group you have just turned the page into a new chapter of your kitty's life where you should be able to start making some progress with the diabetes. Sorry to hear it has been such a struggle, but people like Wendy have so much experience with this stuff if you follow their advice it will almost surely get better. Hang in there.

Your kitty is beautiful, what is his name? Age? History?
 
I am new here and hoping I’m doing this correctly! I like my vet just don’t think she is educated in feline diabetes! He was started on 4 units of insulin a month ago after finding out! They put him on science dm! He is always starving so I also give him fancy feast pate but trying to take kibble away completely but he is starved acting! They have tried doing two curves they ended the first one because his sugar was so high and he was stressed and upped his doge to 4 units twice a day of vetsulin. Two weeks later no improvement they try again I knew it wouldn’t work as his stress was so high they didn’t believe me and within a few hours they were calling me to pick him up! They are giving me a freestyle libre to use to get his curve done at home but the issue is they want to sedate him! Sedate him when his sugar has been no less then 500 since beginning? That just don’t set right with me! This cat is my life! I don’t know what to do! I don’t know much but I do know that the treatment isn’t to my liking! I need to get him at least managed! Please I’m begging people to help me! He is my everything!
Hi Britney and welcome to Feline Diabetes Forum, we are her to help you every way we can but we need a bit more information about him, below are a few links for you to create your signature and set up a spreadsheet so we can see the progress with the BG numbers ,when you shoot how much etc first thing that comes to mind is Why Sedation? for a curve? no no, you can do a curve at home, and the food "prescribed" most of these foods especially kibbles contain between 25-35% carbs, diabetic cats need a diet containing 0-10% carbs of wet food, this is most likely why his BG number continues on the 500's, you should feed at least 3-4 meals a day two main meals before shooting and two small meals in between, you should have what is called a HYPO KIT, this contains Karo syrup or Honey, some Medium carb food between 11-15% and some High carb foods between 16-25% this is in case his BG lowers to 50 or less, we can help you to regularize him, below is a Drs. Food list, the third column will have the % of carbs for each food us members enjoy the Fancy Feast Pates, now about the Libre, there are irregularities with this, the monitor will not read above 360 or so, you will only see a HI on the screen and the Low number will read about 10-15 points less than the true number, the sensors are expensive, they should last 14 days, but most of them only last 4-5-8 days they tend to fall off unless glues and that irritates the cats skin, also the cat removes them, here most of the members use the human ReliON Premier monitor and strips, you can get it at Walmart, trust me, by experience with the Libre myself, you will be stress free, in the Main Forum are many valuable sticky notes, I was told when I first started, to take a step back, breath in and breath out, that cats sense stress in us very strongly, and we both need to relax, we are here for you, I will also tag an expert on Vetsulin to help you with dosing, most Vets are not familiar with Feline Diabetes and they treat it as it were a dog and we take our precious fur babies desperate, and the capitalize on the as well, start with creating your signature and we can start lowering those numbers:bighug::cat::cat:
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
Welcome to FDMB.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I truly wish I could say your vet is an outlier but we do hear about many vets who are not well trained when it comes to managing feline diabetes. I'm linking the diabetes treatment guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn for you and please feel free to discuss the information with your vet.

The AAHA points out that Vetsulin is not a good insulin for managing feline diabetes. It was developed to treat dogs. (Its name outside of the US is Caninsulin.) As a result, it is too short acting given a cat's fast metabolism. Since 2018, the AAHA has recommended either Prozinc or glargine (Lantus) for the treatment of feline diabetes. These are gentler, longer acting types of insulin. Unfortunately, if your vet is not familiar with using Vetsulin, it's likely that the vet won't be familiar with either Prozinc or Lantus.

I am concerned about the vet raising your cat's dose to 4u of Vetsulin. That's a large dose especially if you are not home testing. Vetsulin can drop numbers hard and fast. I suspect that you've not had issues with your cat developing hypoglycemia because what you're feeding your kitty is a high carbohydrate food. Also, I suspect your vet did not tell you that you need to feed your cat 30 min prior to giving a shot. You need to have food on board prior to giving a dose of Vetsulin. Just so you have more information, this a link to our beginner's guide to Vetsulin.

The high numbers you've been seeing are likely the result of the DM food. It sounds like you are feeding your cat the DM kibble. It's ridiculously high in carbohydrates (and has no business being a "diabetic" food). In essence, using DM is like feeding your diabetic child a diet of cookies, candy, and ice cream. Hopefully, the variety of Fancy Feast you've selected is lower in carbs. We consider low carb as under 10% and many cats here are fed a diet that is around 5% carb. This is a link to a food chart that was compiled by a vet who is knowledgeable about feline nutrition. Most dry food is high in carbs and fundamentally isn't a species appropriate diet for cats. Cats are obligate carnivores and can't adequately metabolize carbohydrates. A canned food diet is better for their health. The chart lists most of canned foods available in the US along with information on the carb percents. You have lots of choices! Just take your time transitioning your kitty to a canned food diet.

It is typical of a diabetic to be hungry all of the time. Until the diabetes is better controlled, your cat will be ravenous. The reason is that insulin helps to transport glucose from the blood stream into the cells. With diabetes, your cat's pancreas isn't manufacturing enough insulin to get the glucose where it needs to go. As a result, it's still floating around in the blood and when you test, you get high blood glucose numbers. If the end product of metabolism (i.e., glucose) isn't getting into the cells, your cat will be hungry and likely will be losing weight. For now and until you're seeing better numbers, feed your cat!

I've never heard of a cat needing to be sedated to have a Libre installed. Unless your cat gets aggressive at the vet's office, that's an unreasonable suggestion. Even for the members here who use a Libre, we strongly suggest that you learn how to home test. The Libre is not foolproof (i.e., the sensor stops working, your cat removes it, it tends to read inaccurately at lower numbers) so having a backup is important. Many of the members here use the Walmart Relion glucometer but any human meter is fine. People like the Relion because the strips are the least expensive around. We can provide you with resources on home testing.

If you're not comfortable with your vet's management of your cat's diabetes, you may want to consider looking for a new vet especially if you discuss your cat's treatment with your current vet and you get push back. Some vets are willing to learn vs taking the "my way or the highway" approach. There may be a "cat only" clinic in your area. There is a professional veterinary association for cat friendly practices. We have information on interviewing vets. When I moved to a new city, I scheduled an appointment to meet with a new vet -- without bringing my cat -- to discuss her philosophy for treating diabetes and how she would work with me. I wanted to see the clinic -- make sure it was calm and clean -- and I definitely wanted to meet the vet before entrusting my cat to her care.
 
Now that all the great moderators and “old hands” have replied, you’re wading through a river of great information. I just want to again acknowledge how overwhelming this feels at the start—and there’s so much info and abbreviations and I felt I’d never understand what people wrote on the threads, wrote on the spreadsheets, and don’t get me started on how completely inept I felt starting home testing and giving shots—and Im in the (human) medical field. You’ll be surprised how much you can do once you start.

Will there be hiccups in the start: probably. Other newbies and I have compared notes on every mistake we’ve made—pretty much anything you can imagine :eek:and many you can’t. But we kept at it and slowly but surely our skill set has improved. Do I have anxiety still that I don’t have a clue and my cat will suffer from it—yes, but the advice and support here has made a huge difference. you are not alone.

I’m blessed in having a wonderful, accessible vet. I think it’s very important to trust the medical advice and instruction given. I hope as you gain more information here, and once your boy is more stable, you can have a discussion with your vet (perhaps they have a reason for their guidance we don’t know although the kibble is hard to explain) and give consideration to the excellent advice by @Sienne and Gabby (GA) on finding a vet that you can trust

I also think it’s hard to justify sedation to attach a libre—while I can’t use one on Methos, as was said many members here do use them. Because of the hormones from his tumor, methos has a more aggressive manner in clinic than he used to have—but gabapentin makes him so sleepy he has to be poured into the carrier after lab tests or ultrasounds. Alternatively perhaps for a fee a vet tech would come to your home to attach one (and show you how to do it in the future). My pet sitter is a vet tech and she came to help me at the start giving insulin, and when he needed to start B12 shots and my sitter was out of town I asked at my clinic and one of the techs there agreed to stop by after work. He was fine with her even without gabapentin
 
Brittney one more question about his starting dose—did they come to that dose as a guessed starting point, or had he been kept in the clinic or hospitalized prior to that and that was his dose at discharge?

many vets just estimating a starting dose for an outpatient uncomplicated diabetic might start lower than, for example, a cat who’d been kept all day or overnight at the clinic and a curve was done, or had been hospitalized for complications of diabetes or other health problems for several days and been on an insulin drip, etc.

I ask because my previous Cushing’s cat Erik was diagnosed with diabetes literally the week before I had to drive us from Las Vegas to DC for a military reassignment (ie no chance to postpone). She kept him for two (maybe 3?) days, got his BG and dose stabilized (more or less) and so he started at a higher dose than usual with a vet appointment made and waiting for us in Odenton when we arrived 5 days later.
 
Now that all the great moderators and “old hands” have replied, you’re wading through a river of great information. I just want to again acknowledge how overwhelming this feels at the start—and there’s so much info and abbreviations and I felt I’d never understand what people wrote on the threads, wrote on the spreadsheets, and don’t get me started on how completely inept I felt starting home testing and giving shots—and Im in the (human) medical field. You’ll be surprised how much you can do once you start.
Will there be hiccups in the start: probably. Other newbies and I have compared notes on every mistake we’ve made—pretty much anything you can imagine :eek:and many you can’t. But we kept at it and slowly but surely our skill set has improved. Do I have anxiety still that I don’t have a clue and my cat will suffer from it—yes, but the advice and support here has made a huge difference. you are not alone.

I’m blessed in having a wonderful, accessible vet. I think it’s very important to trust the medical advice and instruction given. I hope as you gain more information here, and once your boy is more stable, you can have a discussion with your vet (perhaps they have a reason for their guidance we don’t know although the kibble is hard to explain) and give consideration to the excellent advice by @Sienne and Gabby (GA) on finding a vet that you can trust

I also think it’s hard to justify sedation to attach a libre—while I can’t use one on Methos, as was said many members here do use them. Because of the hormones from his tumor, methos has a more aggressive manner in clinic than he used to have—but gabapentin makes him so sleepy he has to be poured into the carrier after lab tests or ultrasounds. Alternatively perhaps for a fee a vet tech would come to your home to attach one (and show you how to do it in the future). My pet sitter is a vet tech and she came to help me at the start giving insulin, and when he needed to start B12 shots and my sitter was out of town I asked at my clinic and one of the techs there agreed to stop by after work. He was fine with her even without gabapentin

There is absolutely no reason to sedate a cat to place the Libre sensor on the cats back, I placed them at home, the instructions are in the box you just re shave the area again and place the sensor, is as easy as removing a wrapper from a lollipop
you ask your Vet for PRN sensor prescription is for one year, you can just pick up the sensor like a Walmart Pharmacy when needed, just remember it is not a reliable source they tend to fall off, stop reading before the 14 days, they read the High numbers only to 390, after that you will only see HI on the screen monitor, and very irregular on the low BGs, sometime up to 10-15 points less, a human Meter and strips like the ReliOn Premier, is inexpensive and very accurate:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
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