10/29, Binie, AMPS 438, +3 383, +6 350

Heike & BInie

Heike & BInie

Very Active Member
Last post: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/10-28-binie-amps-340-3-230-6-240.295286/#post-3217047

Good evening,

we had quite a high bg day today. I don't know, what this means. But Binie seems to feel quite well, that is the most important.

I got a call from the young vet today. She spoke to a specialist for this bacterial infections and they reviewed Binies case. There are no other antibiotic options than we already know from the antibiogram. The advice was, not to give the doxycyclinhyclat. She doesn't see a high chance to erase the germ completely and as Binie doesn't show clear symptoms of an UTI at the moment, the risks of the side-effects are bigger than the possible gain. So we were heading in the right direction when we decided yesterday, not to give it.

What I didn't know and what is a glimpse of hope: We don't know, how Binies body copes with the germ. Maybe she can stay stable for some time and the germ doesn't cause another infection. I think that is good news after I thought, I would loose her very soon for sure.

So I try to figure out the next days, how I can adjust her treatment to this new situation. How I can stimulate her immune system and help her to feel good. I will also ask questions about her diabetes treatment the next days. I was wondering if her situation changes the treatment goals or not.

I am happy, I don't have anything coming up the next weeks which forces me to leave the house for longer and I can be here with Binie.

Thank you so much all of you for the precious support. It helps so much, not to be alone in this. This is very special. :bighug::kiss::bighug:
 
Heike & BInie said:
Last post: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/10-28-binie-amps-340-3-230-6-240.295286/#post-3217047

Good evening,

we had quite a high bg day today. I don't know, what this means. But Binie seems to feel quite well, that is the most important.

I got a call from the young vet today. She spoke to a specialist for this bacterial infections and they reviewed Binies case. There are no other antibiotic options than we already know from the antibiogram. The advice was, not to give the doxycyclinhyclat. She doesn't see a high chance to erase the germ completely and as Binie doesn't show clear symptoms of an UTI at the moment, the risks of the side-effects are bigger than the possible gain. So we were heading in the right direction when we decided yesterday, not to give it.

What I didn't know and what is a glimpse of hope: We don't know, how Binies body copes with the germ. Maybe she can stay stable for some time and the germ doesn't cause another infection. I think that is good news after I thought, I would loose her very soon for sure.

So I try to figure out the next days, how I can adjust her treatment to this new situation. How I can stimulate her immune system and help her to feel good. I will also ask questions about her diabetes treatment the next days. I was wondering if her situation changes the treatment goals or not.

I am happy, I don't have anything coming up the next weeks which forces me to leave the house for longer and I can be here with Binie.

Thank you so much all of you for the precious support. It helps so much, not to be alone in this. This is very special. :bighug::kiss::bighug:
Click to expand...
Hi Heike, I’m so glad Binie is feeling well.
It’s good the specialist agreed that you shouldn’t give the antibiotic. Let’s hope maybe Binie will be ok as she is.
It reminded me that several years ago, Ivy kept getting UTIs and eventually they stopped treating them. My primary vet spoke with an internal medicine doctor about it and they decided not to give Ivy antibiotics so that she would not develop a resistance to them for the future.
This was about 4 to 5 years ago. Eventually, she stopped getting UTIs and the problem seems to have gone away. I had forgotten about it until I read what you wrote that the specialist recommended.

I’m glad you can be home with Binie. I think that will make both of you very happy. She loves having you close by.
Sending you both warm wishes for a wonderful sleep :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
So glad Binie feels well and that you have hope. You know in humans we tell women who get frequent UTIs to try drinking cranberry juice to change the pH of the urine to make it harder for bacteria to grow (scientific studies have supported and also contradicted this advice)—DO NOT give her cranberries but maybe ask the vet if there is some homeopathic treatment to try

sending so much love to you and Binie
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Hi Heike, I’m so glad Binie is feeling well.
It’s good the specialist agreed that you shouldn’t give the antibiotic. Let’s hope maybe Binie will be ok as she is.
It reminded me that several years ago, Ivy kept getting UTIs and eventually they stopped treating them. My primary vet spoke with an internal medicine doctor about it and they decided not to give Ivy antibiotics so that she would not develop a resistance to them for the future.
This was about 4 to 5 years ago. Eventually, she stopped getting UTIs and the problem seems to have gone away. I had forgotten about it until I read what you wrote that the specialist recommended.

I’m glad you can be home with Binie. I think that will make both of you very happy. She loves having you close by.
Sending you both warm wishes for a wonderful sleep :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

Hi Staci,

thank you so much! That is so interesting, that Ivy also had bacteria in her urine without symptoms. I haven't heard about it before but your post inspired me to do some research and I learnt that this is not uncommon (also in humans) and usually the recommendation is not to treat it with antibiotics. So happy Ivy recovered fully from it. That gives me some hope. Thank you for sharing this!

I hope you and Ivy are well! I will check on you guys later! :bighug::kiss::bighug:
 
bluesunshine said:
Really glad you got some affirmation on the decisions you made this past week. I'm glad Binie is feeling good.
Click to expand...

Hi Seth,

thank you so much! Yes, even though the confirmation didn't change anything, it helped me to feel calmer. It's difficult we have to make all these decisions for our kittys, isn't it? And again: I wish they could talk....

Hope you have a good day with sweet Bell! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
SmallestSparrow said:
So glad Binie feels well and that you have hope. You know in humans we tell women who get frequent UTIs to try drinking cranberry juice to change the pH of the urine to make it harder for bacteria to grow (scientific studies have supported and also contradicted this advice)—DO NOT give her cranberries but maybe ask the vet if there is some homeopathic treatment to try

sending so much love to you and Binie
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

Such a good reminder Colleen, thank you! When Binie was fighting these three germs at once, I gave her d-mannose. I read that it does the same cranberrys do. I think about giving it again. It doesn't help with the Enterococcus sp. but it prevents Escherichia coli which was one of the bacteria she was fighing with in August. I will try to find out, if there are also other options to change the pH. Thank you for the ideas!!!

I hope you and the boys are well! :bighug::kiss::bighug:
 
SmallestSparrow said:
I don’t know if changing the pH would work for cats so maybe ask your vet (or do your great research)—but maybe it will work. I’ll have to remember the mannose in case I need it for my boys thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, I'll do some research about the pH. I became fond of using ChatGPT for getting new ideas but you always have to re-check.

If you are interested in d-mannose, I copied the infos from Tanyas great site for CKD cats for you:

D-mannose




A human study at the Washington University in St Louis School of Medicine, Establishment of a persistent Escherichia coli reservoir during the acute phase of a bladder infection(2001) Mulvey MA, Schilling JD & Hultgren SJ Infection and Immunity 69(7) pp 4572-9, found that in some cases the bacteria that cause urinary tract infections can burrow so deep into the bladder lining that they cannot be detected in the usual tests. D-mannose appears to be very helpful when dealing with this sort of infection.



D-mannose is a simple sugar. It does not kill the bacteria as an antibiotic does; rather, it works by attracting the bacteria to bind with itself rather than with the bladder wall; the bacteria can then be passed out of the body via urination.



D-mannose will only work for urinary tract infections caused by E coli (and not all of them), and possibly for infections caused by Klebsiella bacteria. Klebsiella infections are rare, but E coli accounts for around 67% of urinary tract infections in cats.



Effect of D-mannose and D-glucose on Escherichia coli bacteriuria in rats (1983) Michaels EK, Chmiel JS, Plotkin BJ & Schaeffer AJ Urological Research 11(2) pp97-102 found that it significantly reduced levels of E coli in rats.



I am not aware of any research into the use of D-mannose in cats but International Society for Companion Animal Infectious Diseases (ISCAID) guidelines for the diagnosis and management of bacterial urinary tract infections in dogs and cats (2019) Weese JS, Blondeau J, Boothe D, Guardabassi LG, Gumley N, Papich M, Jessen LR, Lappin M, Rankin S, Westropp JL, Sykes J Veterinary Journal 247 pp8-25 state there is currently no evidence that it helps. On the other hand, it is very unlikely to harm, and I have heard from a number of people who have tried this treatment on their cat, all of whom thought it was effective.


Although D-mannose is a type of sugar, it does not get absorbed by the digestive tract. Therefore it should be safe for diabetic cats, but check with your vet before using if your cat has diabetes.



Although D-mannose appears to be effective, it seems to work best for cats with a recurring UTI. If your CKD cat is prone to persistent, ongoing or repeated UTIs, speak to your vet about using it.



D-mannose is not intended to take the place of antibiotics. If your vet prescribes antibiotics, you must use them, because untreated urinary tract infections can rise into the kidneys and cause permanent damage, which is the last thing a CKD cat needs. See above for more information on treating urinary tract infections.



D-mannose Dosage

  • A commonly used dose is 250-500mg twice a day. Managing the Ecoli UTI (2011) KuKanich KS NAVC Clinician's Brief Aug 2011 pp61-66 mentions a dose of 250-1000mg twice daily.

  • With most (but not all) brands, a ¼ of a teaspoon of the powder is 500mg, so if you are giving 250-500mg, you would give ⅛-¼ teaspoon twice a day, but check with your vet.

  • Some people find it works better if they divide the total amount over 3-4 doses a day.

  • Keep giving it for a week after the symptoms have disappeared.
Since it is a type of sugar, D-Mannose has a pleasant taste. It can be easily mixed with wet food or mixed with water and syringed into the cat's mouth.



Where to Buy D-mannose

D-mannose is widely available from health food shops such as Vitamin Shoppe and Wholefoods (it is often in the women's health section). You want pure D-mannose. It can also be bought online:



USA

Amazon

sells the Now brand in various quantities.



Iherb

sells the Now brand. 3 oz cost US$19.18.



Vitacost

sells 2.5 oz of the Kal brand for US$29.19. This brand is stronger than some others so the dosages mentioned above need to be amended accordingly.
 
Hi Heike! It's good that the vet called you to discuss, and I like the idea to not treat her since she is doing well, even though that must be difficult for you, to imagine that she could get bad again.
:bighug:
 
cecile & bella said:
Hi Heike! It's good that the vet called you to discuss, and I like the idea to not treat her since she is doing well, even though that must be difficult for you, to imagine that she could get bad again.
:bighug:
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your support Cecile! :bighug::bighug::bighug: Yes, it is not nice to have this dark cloud above us. But Binie is fine today and I try to concentrate on this. Hope you and Bella are fine! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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