New Here... Have a Cat with Low BG but non diabetic according to VET

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Evan93

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He is 9 years old and weighs 19lbs... so obviously overweight. We took him to the vet because hes been throwing up so consistently although he still does have a strong appetite and drinks water well. Anyway... Vet was alarmed at 59 and 50 BG readings at vets office and instantly directed his thoughts towards Insulinoma, We go in for a Imaging in a couple days... we actually weren't able to get enough blood from him to send off to get insulin and other numbers yet but his Thyroid and kidney counts were good.

One thing i am curious about is in regards to the two BG readings... The vet acted like these readings were completely out of range but on here it would appear that they aren't actually as bad as i thought for a non diabetic although still low id imagine? ... With that said... Him being over weight and having low BG like that would probably be a reason of concern as oppossed to if he was skinny or a kitten?

Just kind of curious what people think as we wait to get some imaging done.

Also, He just about refuses to eat wet and only eats kibble.... Are there any good dry kibble foods for a cat with his issues or anyone have any ideas on how to get to start eating wet?
 
Also should mention... aside from puking getting more frequent he also has became fairly lethargic which was another reason for the vet visit.

Also, Would i want him to be on a low carb food right now even with his Low BG. Surely him eating high carb dry kibble for so long hasn't helped...
 
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Evan93 said:
He is 9 years old and weighs 19lbs... so obviously overweight. We took him to the vet because hes been throwing up so consistently although he still does have a strong appetite and drinks water well. Anyway... Vet was alarmed at 59 and 50 BG readings at vets office and instantly directed his thoughts towards Insulinoma, We go in for a Imaging in a couple days... we actually weren't able to get enough blood from him to send off to get insulin and other numbers yet but his Thyroid and kidney counts were good.

One thing i am curious about is in regards to the two BG readings... The vet acted like these readings were completely out of range but on here it would appear that they aren't actually as bad as i thought for a non diabetic although still low id imagine? ... With that said... Him being over weight and having low BG like that would probably be a reason of concern as oppossed to if he was skinny or a kitten?

Just kind of curious what people think as we wait to get some imaging done.

Also, He just about refuses to eat wet and only eats kibble.... Are there any good dry kibble foods for a cat with his issues or anyone have any ideas on how to get to start eating wet?
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@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Bandit's Mom
 
@Evan93
About the kibble
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online they are not cheap
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE

Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature. Some members have said the Young Again caused stinky poops

In the past I have used The Dr Elseys and had no problem

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90

If you call they will send you samples
Phone: 877-311-2287… Dr Elsey's

PHONE:
800.311.6646. Young Again

1-800-748-0188 •Wysong Epigen 90
 
Evan93 said:
Vet was alarmed at 59 and 50 BG readings at vets office and instantly directed his thoughts towards Insulinoma, We go in for a Imaging in a couple days... we actually weren't able to get enough blood from him to send off to get insulin and other numbers yet but his Thyroid and kidney counts were good.
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I have never heard of Insulinoma so I looked it up. I hope that's not the case :bighug:
@Evan93
 
Low BG is not diabetic. It is in normal range. I see Bron told you that. There are many reasons for the symptoms you describe. Do you have a copy of the labs?
Perhaps he will eat freeze dried food. What imaging are they suggesting? I would think there’s a possibility of intestinal issues such as IBD or maybe scl. Has he lost a lot of weight?
 
He has not lost a lot of weight... most i've ever seen him weigh is 21 lbs and right now he is at 19. I wouldn't even say hes lost any weight to speak of.

Unfortunately i don't have the labs but we make sure to get them next time.

He has quite the appetite and always has.... With his Glucose numbers where they are would that mean his insulin would for sure be high? Could he have low or regular insulin even though he is always wanting to eat?

He has always been one to over eat and puke... on and off. Not all the time but somewhat consistently ... but his lethargy and not wanting to play as much as been what has stood out more lately than anything...
 
There are many reasons for increased appetite. Hypothyroidism is one. Weight loss can accompany that — but it looks like you had the T4 checked? Also with Inflammatory Bowel Disease you can have a cat with a still strong appetite and yet having weight loss, especially with vomiting. Those are classic signs. I would think an ultrasound would definitely be helpful in making a diagnosis. And, as others have said, there’s nothing to be alarmed about with blood glucose readings of 50 or 59 in a non-diabetic cat. That’s normal.
 
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Thanks for the replies, guys.. really appreciate it. He hasn't really lost much weight though.... although he does throw up consistently he has plenty of food that goes down and stays down. Thyroid check out as fine.

Are their just vets like mine that arent up to date with what a normal glucose on a non diabetic cat is? He said it was the lowest BG hes ever seen on a non diabetic cat.
 
Evan93 said:
Thanks for the replies, guys.. really appreciate it. He hasn't really lost much weight though.... although he does throw up consistently he has plenty of food that goes down and stays down. Thyroid check out as fine.

Are their just vets like mine that arent up to date with what a normal glucose on a non diabetic cat is? He said it was the lowest BG hes ever seen on a non diabetic cat.
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I test my non-diabetic cats at home and get readings in the 50s and sometimes 40s — readings in the numbers between 50 and 100 are common. Maybe your vet is used to seeing numbers that are higher due to cats being stressed at the vet (it definitely can raise BG)?
 
Shelley & Jess said:
Curious what kind of meter was used to test. Any idea?
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Ditto on meter question. While 50’s might be normal on a human meter when testing a cat, it’s not considered normal on a pet meter or lab work.

I had a dog with a functioning insulinoma. They’re more common in dogs but are supposedly rare in cats. Again, if the 50s numbers came off of a handheld HUMAN meter, I wouldn’t worry too much, just run the lab work and see what it says and chances it’ll show a higher BG value. If the number came from a pet meter, then I might want to investigate further.

As for the vomiting … is it actual vomiting or is it regurgitation? There’s actually a difference. True vomiting (contents are typically partially or fully digested food, sometimes with bile) is often a more “violent” process that involves abdominal muscles; it can often be a sign of illness or disease. Regurgitation, on the other hand, typically involves undigested food (food comes back up looking very much like it did when it went down, for example kibble shaped) and is more “passive” in that they sort of easily hack it up in a few seconds and move on. Think the “scarf and barf” scenario. Cats are notorious for that.

Any time a cat is lethargic, however, it’s time for a vet check.

Please let us know what you find out.
 
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I hope you will find out what is going on with your cat and get some help from the vet. I hope it’s nothing serious. Do ask what kind of meter the vet used to test. If she/he was using a pet meter like the Alpha Trak then those numbers would be low, but then the vet would have probably given some glucose to bring the numbers up? Keep us posted on how things are going.
 
JL and Chip said:
it’ll show a higher BG value. If the number came from a pet meter, then I might want to investigate further.
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And I would guess the vet might want to get a Fructosamine test to see what kitty’s average blood glucose has been over the last weeks - instead of just a spot check(s). If you get a copy of all bloodwork, you could see what tests were run.
 
What would be a normal cat BG on a Human meter as well as a Pet meter? What are the ranges? ...

Going into the vets office this morning to grab some food. I ordered some of the elseys low carb last night. I will ask what kind of meter they used as well as get my own either at the vets or Walmart and test him today at home.
 
Evan93 said:
What would be a normal cat BG on a Human meter as well as a Pet meter? What are the ranges? ...
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Human meter: 50 to 120

Pet meter: FDMB sets 68 as the lower threshold for pet meters.

As far as I know FDMB has no defined 'normal' reference range for users of pet meters, and vets vary in what they consider to be the normal feline BG reference range.
 
Evan93 said:
He is 9 years old and weighs 19lbs... so obviously overweight. We took him to the vet because hes been throwing up so consistently although he still does have a strong appetite and drinks water well. Anyway... Vet was alarmed at 59 and 50 BG readings at vets office and instantly directed his thoughts towards Insulinoma, We go in for a Imaging in a couple days... we actually weren't able to get enough blood from him to send off to get insulin and other numbers yet but his Thyroid and kidney counts were good.


One thing i am curious about is in regards to the two BG readings... The vet acted like these readings were completely out of range but on here it would appear that they aren't actually as bad as i thought for a non diabetic although still low id imagine? ... With that said... Him being over weight and having low BG like that would probably be a reason of concern as oppossed to if he was skinny or a kitten?

Just kind of curious what people think as we wait to get some imaging done.

Also, He just about refuses to eat wet and only eats kibble.... Are there any good dry kibble foods for a cat with his issues or anyone have any ideas on how to get to start eating wet?
Click to expand...
Welcome, actually kibbles are not good for any cat weather diabetic or not,
hard or kibble contain an immense amount to carbs between 20- sometimes 30 % carbs, you explain he is already overweight, cats do not digest carbs, which means the pancreas are not diluting the carbs, results eventual diabetes, diabetic cats or any should be on a diet preferably of wet can food between 0-10% carbs, to switch from kibbles to wet, you should do it gradually, I have two cats raised on kibbles, until my 11 year old male last January began to have what I did not know were symptoms of diabetes. in my case I had no trouble making the quick switch, from dry to wet, but it is not recommended, I made the decision to give both my cats the wet food, Coco is a female 4 years old both are indoor cats only, so their exercise is minimal, the kibbles and high carbs could also lead her to diabetes and I cannot take that chance again, below is a Drs Food link, you can choose from many brands the third column contains the % of carbs, most of the members enjoy the Fancy Feast
Pates, they are US made so no waste goes into the food, when my Corky was hospitalized his glucose number was 650, today is in the 70's and he is still diabetic and on insulin, and 50- glucose number is a sign of hypoglycemia, is unfortunately most Vets are not familiar with Feline Diabetes, and our precious pet, is wrongly diagnosed, so the Vets makes decisions on many unneeded tests, throwing up could be just a bad digestion, if there are no other warning signs, it would be a good idea if you buy a human glucose monitor and strips and home test yourself for a few days to see the results, so we can guide you better there is also a link below for you to create your signature and we can find out more about treatment, if you have insulin which one, dose etc, below in blue you will see typed in blue 'Corky's Spreadsheet' you can see the glucose numbers and we test, you can decide to set one up yourself so we can see the daily progress, we can help you better this way, you can read in the Main Forum the sticky notes that have a lot of valuable information:bighug::cat::cat:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
Corky, thank you for the lengthy response.

I guess I am a little confused though. Just based on his glucose numbers alone being so low we know he can't be diabetic, right?

Think what concerns the vet is the fact he's 19 lbs but had the low glucose readings as opposed to if he was skinny and had those low readings.
 
Evan93 said:
Corky, thank you for the lengthy response.

I guess I am a little confused though. Just based on his glucose numbers alone being so low we know he can't be diabetic, right?

Think what concerns the vet is the fact he's 19 lbs but had the low glucose readings as opposed to if he was skinny and had those low readings.
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Weight has absolutely nothing to do on weather he is or not diabetic we see feline here that weight 7 lbs and diabetic
 
Ok.. good too know.

But still, in regards to his low glucose there is no reason him having a low glucose would make a person think he's diabetic right?

I realize without having his insulin numbers and other blood work this makes things harder right now but just trying to learn.
 
Evan93 said:
Ok.. good too know.

But still, in regards to his low glucose there is no reason him having a low glucose would make a person think he's diabetic right?

I realize without having his insulin numbers and other blood work this makes things harder right now but just trying to learn.
Click to expand...
In the mean time you can go in the Main Forum and read the sticky notes there’s much valuable information there and can answer a lot of your questions I will tag another member that can put some more light in all this:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
 
Ok thank you...

Too add, the vet thinks it is possibly and insullinoma because his glucose numbers were so low ( according to vet ) and basically insinuated that his insulin would have to be high and that a cat eating that much dry kibble/carbs should if anything have a high glucose.
 
Evan93 said:
Corky, thank you for the lengthy response.

I guess I am a little confused though. Just based on his glucose numbers alone being so low we know he can't be diabetic, right?

Think what concerns the vet is the fact he's 19 lbs but had the low glucose readings as opposed to if he was skinny and had those low readings.
Click to expand...
Yes. We are not thinking that your cat is diabetic with those low BG readings. I definitely would ask for a Fructosamine test to see what your cat’s average BG has been over the last few weeks.
 
And as for the kibble, sure it’s not optimal, but if you have a cat who refuses to transition to low carb wet food (which is something that can take a long time and Dr. Lisa Pierson has tips on how to transition) then your next best option is to give low carb kibble like Dr. Elsey’s which most cats like. Young Again and the Wysone one that Diane mentioned are options. The easiest to obtain is Dr. Elsey’s and most cats like it. Your cat doesn’t appear to be diabetic (quite the opposite) but just for information, feeding Dr. Elsey’s kibble is not a deal breaker for diabetics. I am currently working with a ProZinc insulin user who is feeding her car a combination of wet and some Dr. Elsey’s and the cat is doing great and earning reductions. That is just an aside, but every cat is different- even though I would prefer all LC wet. We can work with it.

As for your cat, it would be an improvement over the current diet and I believe you said you ordered Dr. Elsey’s. Make any food transition very slowly. Right now your main concern is to get a diagnosis and some help for your cat. We are all wishing you well!
 
Evan93 said:
Ok.. good too know.

But still, in regards to his low glucose there is no reason him having a low glucose would make a person think he's diabetic right?

I realize without having his insulin numbers and other blood work this makes things harder right now but just trying to learn.
Click to expand...
When diabetic, and diagnosed, the glucose numbers can range from the 300's to 400+
 
So I asked the vet and his 50 and 59 BG levels were with a pet meter specifically for cats...

With that said, I just purchased a prodigy gluco meter for humans and got his reading twice. His two readings were 71 and 76. Also, he hadnt eaten in 7 or 8 hours when the readings were taken.
 
CORKY said:
When diabetic, and diagnosed, the glucose numbers can range from the 300's to 400+
Click to expand...
Or even higher or lower. Normal BG is between 50 and 120 on a human meter. Anything consistently above that can indicate diabetes. But again, the cat we are discussing on this thread appears to have the opposite problem of low blood glucose.
 
Evan93 said:
So I asked the vet and his 50 and 59 BG levels were with a pet meter specifically for cats...
Click to expand...
Okay. So that is low because a pet meter was used. Still, get a fructosamine test done. On a pet meter, we don’t like to see BG below 68 (although that is a number for safety for cats who are on insulin which could push them lower.)
 
Evan93 said:
So I asked the vet and his 50 and 59 BG levels were with a pet meter specifically for cats...

With that said, I just purchased a prodigy gluco meter for humans and got his reading twice. His two readings were 71 and 76. Also, he hadnt eaten in 7 or 8 hours when the readings were taken.
Click to expand...
Those are perfect numbers and very typical of a cat who is healthy (non-diabetic.). I feel really good about that. I would track him a bit before and an hour or two after food.
 
Evan93 said:
So I asked the vet and his 50 and 59 BG levels were with a pet meter specifically for cats...

With that said, I just purchased a prodigy gluco meter for humans and got his reading twice. His two readings were 71 and 76. Also, he hadnt eaten in 7 or 8 hours when the readings were taken.
Click to expand...
See he's glucose number is awesome, I doubt he is diabetic, now try testing every 3-4 hours to make sure the numbers are more or else the same. if you could create a spreadsheet and signature, would really help a lot, this way the members that re guiding you can have an understanding of what's really going on with your baby, if you go a complete cycle(1week) with the same low reading, I personally think he is not diabetic, but is good to feed low wet carb foods, and approximately, 2 main meals and 2 snacks during the day, any other concerns, please do not hesitate to ask, we are here to help, and do not under any circumstances be afraid to ask your VET, and fully explain, if you are in doubt, ask us, we don't charge, Vets do, so we all have the best help and assurance of Feline Experience, I should know, I trust this Forum Blindly, my Corky since January 4, 2023 has not stepped paws in a Vets office, with this Forum my Corky is at his best, when denied treatment by his birth day to care for him once he saw "DIABETES" as a symptom, I was very disappointed in him, but this Forum not only I blindly trust, but My Corky is back to is healthy self since diagnosed. please, any concerns you many have do not hesitate to rely on us, if you question, or have doubts on your Vet advise, post us. we can help your concerns, We are here for you:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
I have no clue what your vet is referring to when he says he was using a pet meter specifically for cats. There are meters for pets and humans. I used a cat only vet practice in 2 cities and no vet ever recommended a "cat only" meter. I also did a search and you'll see the same meters for cats as for dogs.

Many vets get very nervous if a diabetic cat has blood glucose numbers that are below 80 or 90. They are concerned about hypoglycemia mostly because most caregivers do not home test and the vet doesn't want to be liable if a cat experiences symptomatic hypoglycemia. They will recommend that your cat be in a higher range than what we use here.

One other consideration is that some cats have a drop in blood glucose numbers with stress. While the opposite is typically true (i.e., higher numbers with stress), it doesn't apply to all cats. We have had members whose cat is in lower numbers when at the vet's office.

Just to clarify, there is no blood test to measure insulin. Insulin is produced in the pancreas and there isn't a way to measure it. If the pancreas is doing its job, the beta cells in the pancreas produces insulin which then transports the end product of metabolism (i.e., glucose) out of the blood stream and into the cells. Thus, if the pancreas is working, the amount of glucose that's floating around in the blood will be in a normal range. If the pancreas isn't working well, blood glucose levels are elevated. Also, it sounded like your vet indicated that if your cat is eating a higher carb diet then blood glucose should be high. That's not necessarily the case. If you were to eat a pint of ice cream for dinner, your blood glucose level would initially be higher than if you ate a steak. However, your pancreas would kick in and your blood glucose levels would within a few hours come back to a normal range. These levels can vary with the amount of carbs, stress, or any other factors. Ultimately, the insulin that is produced by the pancreas will keep blood glucose in a normal range over the course of the day with the exception of those times that levels increase for the reasons I noted.
 
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