10/4, Bell, AMPS 256 +2 307 +4 299 PMPS 291 +2 333 +4 361

Seth&Bell

Seth&Bell

Very Active Member
Yesterday

Bell had an all blue cycle but is back up in the yellows again. I don't know if this is a bounce, since she didn't really get low, or if this dose just doesn't have the legs to keep her low. Seems strange to me. It has been about a month since I opened this insulin pen, which I know shouldn't be long enough to affect potency, but this is similar to how Bell reacted to the vet's repackaged insulin (low early in the cycle but not enough juice to hang low at the end of the cycle).

Anyway, the pen only has 1/8 left, so I started a new one today. I'll hold this 2.25 dose for this morning and night and if I don't see her get back into the steady greens, I'm going to increase back to 2.5 tomorrow morning. I'll be available this weekend to closely monitor her so that won't be a problem. She was doing so well with the 2.5 dose (but keeping me on my toes by straddling the 50 line) that I don't want to mess anything up by keeping her at a too low of dose for too long a period.
 
Bell is watching the thunderstorm while her fake-tough sister, Blair, is hiding under the bed :D

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bluesunshine said:
The vet said 1-4 teaspoons per meal, but this is a ridiculous amount. I tried 1/2 teaspoon the first day and it turned her meal into a thick, nasty paste, which she wouldn't eat. So I've been adding just a tiny bit to each of her mini-meals.

Is there a risk that psyllium affects her BG? Or are you just concerned with general GI upset from starting too much, too soon?
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1-4 tsps per meal???!!!! So how much per day? 4 tsps a day would be a human-sized dose of psyllium! Psyllium won't affect her BB but that much psyllium can definitely put her off her food and be counterproductive!
https://felinecrf.org/constipation.htm#psyllium


bluesunshine said:
Anyway, the pen only has 1/8 left, so I started a new one today. I'll hold this 2.25 dose for this morning and night and if I don't see her get back into the steady greens, I'm going to increase back to 2.5 tomorrow morning. I'll be available this weekend to closely monitor her so that won't be a problem. She was doing so well with the 2.5 dose (but keeping me on my toes by straddling the 50 line) that I don't want to mess anything up by keeping her at a too low of dose for too long a period.
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It's normal for a cat's insulin requirements to go up and down and any kind of infection/inflammation/pain can affect numbers. I doubt it's the pen, but you can try 2.25U today and go up to 2.5U tomorrow.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
1-4 tsps per meal???!!!! So how much per day? 4 tsps a day would be a human-sized dose of psyllium! Psyllium won't affect her BB but that much psyllium can definitely put her off her food and be counterproductive!
https://felinecrf.org/constipation.htm#psyllium



It's normal for a cat's insulin requirements to go up and down and any kind of infection/inflammation/pain can affect numbers. I doubt it's the pen, but you can try 2.25U today and go up to 2.5U tomorrow.
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Yeah :rolleyes: when I actually mixed 1/2 tsp in her meal, I knew there was absolutely no way. Even for a human, the recommended dosage on the package is 1 tsp. I will continue just to sprinkle a tiny bit in each of her meals. Appreciate you pointing that out, I was worried I was severely underdosing.

Thanks for the reassurance on Bell's numbers as well. She's been on Clavamox for about a month for the anal gland infection... I really hope the numbers are not indicating that the infection is getting worse. Sigh.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Let's see a photo of the toughie as well! ;)
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You got it! Here is Blair.

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There's a belt under my bed because Bell absolutely loves to lay on belts (or really anything haha). Blair acts like such a toughie. If Bell is content in a sunspot, Blair will come up and slap her and then take it over. Blair will chase her around the apartment and be a real bully sometimes.

But the minute a storm starts or a random noise happen or I pull out the vacuum Blair is terrified. I no longer can feed her in her normal spot by Bell when Bell gets a shot because Blair is too scared of that process. When I play with Blair, she will be happy and chasing the toy, but then the minute she sees Bell, she stops playing. Such a goofball.
 

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bluesunshine said:
Yesterday

Bell had an all blue cycle but is back up in the yellows again. I don't know if this is a bounce, since she didn't really get low, or if this dose just doesn't have the legs to keep her low. Seems strange to me. It has been about a month since I opened this insulin pen, which I know shouldn't be long enough to affect potency, but this is similar to how Bell reacted to the vet's repackaged insulin (low early in the cycle but not enough juice to hang low at the end of the cycle).

Anyway, the pen only has 1/8 left, so I started a new one today. I'll hold this 2.25 dose for this morning and night and if I don't see her get back into the steady greens, I'm going to increase back to 2.5 tomorrow morning. I'll be available this weekend to closely monitor her so that won't be a problem. She was doing so well with the 2.5 dose (but keeping me on my toes by straddling the 50 line) that I don't want to mess anything up by keeping her at a too low of dose for too long a period.
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I agree with Bhooma. Seems the pen should be fine.
Good luck with the increase, Seth and Bell. :bighug:

I use psyllium husk mixed in Ivy’s for food as well. I was using a pinch (1/16 of tsp) for probably 2 years and only recently increased to 2.5 pinched 2x a day.

Your dosing seems very high!! Good you cut that back. You have good instincts. :bighug:

Hope she slides down gently and you all have a calm day. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Blair is also a beautiful girl! Such a bully but yet a scaredy cat! ;)
 
Thank you Staci! Based on Bhooma and your feedback, I may just add that pinch to a couple of her meals instead of 5 or 6 of them. Then I can see how she reacts to that small amount and adjust in the future. I'm wondering if the vet miswrote the dosage. Their computer systems were down and she was a bit frazzled and had to handwrite a bunch of instructions for me. 1 tsp (let along 4!) would have turned Bell's fancy feast into a solid brick. Absolutely no way haha
 
Ugh these numbers are not good. I really don’t know why she is bouncing since the last few cycles have been in the 100s. Maybe I missed a late cycle drop last night?
 
It is very common for cats to have to go up and down in dose for a while. There's a reason we call feline diabetes a dance. They are the ones in the lead, we just follow. I too think you can increase.
 
Thanks Wendy, I need patience. Do you think I should go ahead and increase tonight, even though she’s bouncing? Or wait until tomorrow morning?
 
Tonight is the sixth cycle since last greens. If you want to wait until tomorrow to increase in case she clears a bounce tonight, that's be OK. Note, she hasn't been taking that long to clear bounces. It is fine to clear during a bounce, just try to avoid increase on a bounce breaking cycle, as the extra momentum can make a more "dramatic" cycle.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Tonight is the sixth cycle since last greens. If you want to wait until tomorrow to increase in case she clears a bounce tonight, that's be OK. Note, she hasn't been taking that long to clear bounces. It is fine to clear during a bounce, just try to avoid increase on a bounce breaking cycle, as the extra momentum can make a more "dramatic" cycle.
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Ok I think I’ve got it. I don’t mind increasing tonight if she is still high. Makes sense that if I wait and find her plummeting after a bounce that I wouldn’t want add more momentum to that. In that case, I’d wait a few cycles for her to level out (or be on the rising edge of another bounce) and increase then. Hope I’m understanding correctly. Thanks for the guidance.
 
Good luck with the new dose.
bluesunshine said:
Makes sense that if I wait and find her plummeting after a bounce that I wouldn’t want add more momentum to that. In that case, I’d wait a few cycles for her to level out (or be on the rising edge of another bounce) and increase then.
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Not quite. You don't want to increase on the exact same cycle as they break the bounce. After that, you are good to increase. No need to wait.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Good luck with the new dose.

Not quite. You don't want to increase on the exact same cycle as they break the bounce. After that, you are good to increase. No need to wait.
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So don’t increase on the cycle I’ve identified a downward trend after a bounce? But the next cycle I would be fine for an increase?
 
After a while you get an idea how long it takes to break a bounce, or might even see BG patterns that tell you she's about to break a bounce. A bounce breaking cycle is one that typically starts higher and slides down most if not all of the cycle. One of the common things cats will do when they are about to break a cycle is go higher first - we call it the high before the low. Always a good reason not to react to a unexpected higher preshot with an increase. The cycle after that is OK for an increase, as is anywhere else in the middle of a bounce. Post #17 in this thread has a longer explanation:
Get a good sleep tonight. Tomorrow is another cycle. I presume the new pen was from the same pack the previous one was in and was kept in the fridge?
 
This pen was just a one-off from Chewy, since I had a refill. Just got it a few days ago and put it straight in the fridge. I'm going to pursue the 5-pen GoodRx deal Staci outlined after this one is done.

That post (#17) helped me a lot. I have seen a completely downward trending cycle when Bell clears a bounce before (The PM cycle of 9/12 is a good example). The explanation behind the 8-10 cycles is really really helpful. It's not just a formula to follow without context, you want to see if a dose consistently hits a low nadir without the bouncing noise. You also want to aggressively increase if those nadirs are too high or not sticky.

Appreciate you so much, Wendy! I don't know why Bell is so high here, but, like you said, Bell is leading and I am just reacting. I'm going to print out that post and put in on my fridge.
 
I give Bella psyllium as well, about 1/2 tsp in her shot time meals. Here is what I do so it does not turn into hard sludge: I start with water, I put maybe 2 tablespoons in her bowl, then the psyllium, then the food. And I mix it all. It looks very liquidy at first but thickens fast, although not enough to be disgustingly thick.
I am not sure if I told you, I found a very large container of psyllium husk (the brand is Now, same one I've been buying at the coop) at Trader Joe's, for half the price I was paying at the coop. I think it's around 8 dollars for a pound.
Blair has beautiful eyes!
 
Thank you for the good advice, Cecile! I’ve been adding extra water to psyllium as well. Since Bell eats every 2-3 hours, I’ve just been adding a small amount to about half her meals. It seems if I put too much in, so can tell I’m up to something :D
 
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