Addison's and Diabetes Lulu's new thread

Lulu's person said:
I'm so sorry you lost your fur baby. I'm preparing but I know from experience we are never prepared. I'll ask the vet about dose. I was hoping to pill her because she is so finicky about eating.
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Yes. I put the contents of the Vetri Science Cardio Strength into smaller gelatin capsules because it was a little too large. Ginger was super easy to pill and got all of her (many) meds and supplements in gelatin capsules (even tablets to prevent her from having to taste them. They all taste bad and some are worse than others.
 
Lulu's person said:
I think I might get the liquid and start with a token. Maybe she will not turn up her nose at it. She is getting so spoiled with all of the foods we keep trying but she is still losing weight. She is so skinny it makes me want to cry but she is happy. I noticed in the past few days she is getting weaker, missing her jumps a few times. I hope it is just the antibiotics but probably not. Just keep on trying, I wonder if the insulin is even working to get the glucose into her cells. It is clearly working too well off and on with her blood glucose levels plummeting too much sometimes. We have to avoid that at all costs but I hate missing a shot when she is too low. Vets all say don't shoot her below 200 and we are more cautious at night when we can't watch her.
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Chewy has a liquid that contains 3mg (3000mcg) per ml, comes unflavored as well as a variety of flavors including tuna. Pricey though. And it has things other than just Coq10. If you search CoQ10 on chewy.com it will bring up the unflavored as well as other flavors besides tuna.

you might also try calling or online chat with Chewy pharmacy. They have several compounded medicines and might be able to compound a low dose pill.

RestoraPet Feline Formula Organic Tuna Flavor Cat Supplement, 2-oz bottle:
https://www.chewy.com/restorapet-fe...5940?utm_source=app-share&utm_campaign=285940

 
I’m looking at Lulu’s spreadsheet. what does a token dose mean? Normally, a token dose is half or perhaps a little less, maybe even a fourth depending upon how much spreadsheet data we have – – of the regular dose. So I am trying to determine how much insulin she’s actually gotten when it says “token” in the units column on the spreadsheet. I do notice that she goes very high into the pink the next morning after a “token” dose. So I believe she is not getting enough insulin. I also do not see any dangerous numbers in her recent entries on the spreadsheet. I see some really good green numbers that are all within a very healthy, normal range.
 
Also, I do not know about Lulu‘s feeding schedule. She should be receiving food at shot time, obviously, and a snack at approximately +2 and +4 and perhaps even at +6. The snacks could be a few teaspoons of low-carb wet food. This will help prevent steep drops in her cycle, and will help to smooth the BG numbers overall.
 
You’ve done fabulous by getting her spreadsheet up and running. Thank you so much! Would it be possible for you to get a few more tests other than the +6 test? The +6 is great, but it would be so helpful if you could either run a curve where you test every two hours during one cycle, or if you would try to get a few tests at different hours such as a +2+4+6+8 at different times (on different days) to fill in some of the blanks on the spreadsheet. We don’t really know, by looking at the spreadsheet, how long it takes her to get to the +6 number. Does she dive early at +2? Does she drop slowly and smoothly down from +2+4 to +6? We really don’t know. It would be very helpful.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I’m looking at Lulu’s spreadsheet. what does a token dose mean? Normally, a token dose is half or perhaps a little less, maybe even a fourth depending upon how much spreadsheet data we have – – of the regular dose. So I am trying to determine how much insulin she’s actually gotten when it says “token” in the units column on the spreadsheet. I do notice that she goes very high into the pink the next morning after a “token” dose. So I believe she is not getting enough insulin. I also do not see any dangerous numbers in her recent entries on the spreadsheet. I see some really good green numbers that are all within a very healthy, normal range.
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Thank you for your question. A token is up to 0.25 depending on how low her PMPS is and as as best as we can measure. If it is 0.5 we put in that amount now...didn't used to. We always err on the side of caution for low glucose events because of her history. We are especially cautious at night when we are not awake to monitor her for symptoms. We are more comfortable giving her more at AMPS if it is low and monitor her closely during the day. We almost lost her in January and have had too many close calls since then even on 1 unit. Sometimes her curve drops up to 200 points or more after her morning shot even at her current regular low dose of 0.75. We consider it a very low dose since she was on 4 units for 7+ years with no problems.

I worry about her not getting enough insulin too but the fear of too much usually overrides the fear of not enough, especially at night. Both the ER and our vet said absolutely not to shoot her below 200. Sometimes we wait for it to go up before giving a shot. The readings on the spreadsheets after PMPS are half hours not full hours and then we decide whether to give her a shot or a reduced shot. I am curious as to why it tends to be lower PMPS than AMPS especially since we feed her practically all day but not after bed time at night...unless she eats the other cat's dry food at night and I don't think she does. I was actually hoping the prednisone that she started last week (which the vet was cautious to give her at all because it can raise glucose) would make it safer to give her more insulin. We haven't seen that yet. She did have a midday reading of 47 recently that scared us and the vet but we handled it at home.
 
I don’t know if cat’s cortisol production is the same as humans, nor if cats with adrenal problems differ from other cats. That said, in the species that walks upright cortisol begins to rise just before waking, peaking between 8-10 am and dropping to a low around 4 am (shift workers can have an opposite pattern). So if this holds true in cats it may be influencing ps numbers if your timing is right.
But it may not be the same for cats since they are natural dawn/dusk hunters
 
So there is nobody who can set an alarm to wake up in the night and test her to see what she’s doing at night?

Is she getting the snacks of LC wet food at +2 and +4 that she needs to have to help prevent steep drops and smooth the cycle?
 
SmallestSparrow said:
I don’t know if cat’s cortisol production is the same as humans, nor if cats with adrenal problems differ from other cats. That said, in the species that walks upright cortisol begins to rise just before waking, peaking between 8-10 am and dropping to a low around 4 am (shift workers can have an opposite pattern). So if this holds true in cats it may be influencing ps numbers if your timing is right.
But it may not be the same for cats since they are natural dawn/dusk hunte
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
You’ve done fabulous by getting her spreadsheet up and running. Thank you so much! Would it be possible for you to get a few more tests other than the +6 test? The +6 is great, but it would be so helpful if you could either run a curve where you test every two hours during one cycle, or if you would try to get a few tests at different hours such as a +2+4+6+8 at different times (on different days) to fill in some of the blanks on the spreadsheet. We don’t really know, by looking at the spreadsheet, how long it takes her to get to the +6 number. Does she dive early at +2? Does she drop slowly and smoothly down from +2+4 to +6? We really don’t know. It would be very helpful.
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
So there is nobody who can set an alarm to wake up in the night and test her to see what she’s doing at night?

Is she getting the snacks of LC wet food at +2 and +4 that she needs to have to help prevent steep drops and smooth the cycle?
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I have intuited that she should eat more while her insulin is high so we have been giving more snacks. I thought it was supposed to be only feeding twice a day which we could never do because she was always a grazer. So, no I did not know that we should give her food at +2 +4 +6 or +8. We do give lunch at +6

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Suzanne & Darcy said:
I can’t see any reply to the above quoted sections of text.
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
I can’t see any reply to the above quoted sections of text.
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I went to the ER with my best friend yesterday. We were there for 4 pm to 4 am. Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply.
 
I have intuited that she should eat more while her insulin is high so we have been giving more snacks. I thought it was supposed to be only feeding twice a day which we could never do because she was always a grazer. So, no I did not know that we should give her food at +2 +4 +6 or +8. We do give lunch at +6 but actually we feed her all day long kitten food, quail egg treats, pate, chicken and about anything we can get her to eat. Since she started getting so skinny and we leave wet food out all night too. Of course with 5 cats and no way to separate them the others might et too much. We will worry about that later if it happens. We did a 24 hour curve awhile back and I think it is on her spreadsheet. We can do it again. I just assumed it was close to the daytime curve until she started having the low readings at night.

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It looks like she had a better curve yesterday. She seems to be going down physically but she goes up and down so much it is hard to tell. Her weight is still on a slow steady decline by a fraction of an oz. it seems with an occasional fraction of an oz. up. One step forward; two steps back as the saying goes. I know we are fighting a losing battle but want to keep her as comfortable and happy as we can. She is still having more good times than bad...with the worst for her being the subQs that are absolutely necessary for her to live comfortably. She ate well on tuna last night but is getting very finicky, she didn't like it this morning. She is so finicky and spoiled that she wants to live on treats alone and we do not hold them back any more than we have to. The quail Egg treats have only protein and fat and she loves them so she gets those more than the others. Quality of life is of upmost importance now with hopes of trying to maintain it as well as we can. She has two more days of antibiotics and hopefully she will feel better and we can try Q10 or have been considering trying a tiny bit of hypothyroid transdermal one of our other cats needs since vet only did a T4 and we are nor putting her through another blood draw to find out more. I guess we need to call him before we do it.
 
We give her appetite stimulant too when we think she isn't eating enough so she got that today even though she ate a good breakfast she hasn't wanted much since. She comes and looks the bowl and us but doesn't want what we have tried even treats in the food to entice her which used to work well. She is so skinny it is heartbreaking but she just keeps going and going like the Energizer Bunny. And we are not going to stop trying as long as she is still happy with life most of the time. We will do an all night curve if you think it will help. Would that be PMPS, +2 + 4 +6 + 8 +10 or all night? Since she has food out all night should we just test her to see what she is doing rather than try to entice her to eat? She was high again this morning at AMPS @ 8 AM 361 and 2 PM @ 153 and we do need to find out why. Maybe it is prednisolone. Vet said hypothyroid med was totally contraindicated so I that is not an option and insulin might need to be increased again. Lulu is handling all of this better than we are. Sweet baby.
 
Lulu's person said:
We give her appetite stimulant too when we think she isn't eating enough so she got that today even though she ate a good breakfast she hasn't wanted much since. She comes and looks the bowl and us but doesn't want what we have tried even treats in the food to entice her which used to work well. She is so skinny it is heartbreaking but she just keeps going and going like the Energizer Bunny. And we are not going to stop trying as long as she is still happy with life most of the time. We will do an all night curve if you think it will help. Would that be PMPS, +2 + 4 +6 + 8 +10 or all night? Since she has food out all night should we just test her to see what she is doing rather than try to entice her to eat? She was high again this morning at AMPS @ 8 AM 361 and 2 PM @ 153 and we do need to find out why. Maybe it is prednisolone. Vet said hypothyroid med was totally contraindicated so I that is not an option and insulin might need to be increased again. Lulu is handling all of this better than we are. Sweet baby.
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My boy also losing and losing. Even on the days his glucose is normal. :(
Since he eats tiki brand i bought some tiki comfort sachets, 35 cal in a very small foil pouch (I don’t think much carbs, it’s nearly all fat and protein. Too soon to know if it does anything
 
Sorry about Methos. The weight loss is horrible to watch and feeling helpless is worse. I hope your Tiki sachets help. Lulu is getting Quail egg treats with cranberry that I get from Amazon, also high protein and fat with no carbs. She loves them but only wants to eat that and nothing else. I'm afraid we are on our last days, she is not eating tonight even with an appetite stimulant so we gave her treats and a fat 0.5 shot and trying to do a night time curve. I am afraid we are making her last days torture. But she could perk up tomorrow as she has done many times before. She is complaining about being stuck more and more. I think her tummy might be hurting today too, she growls when I touch it. Just not a good day for any of us. I hope tomorrow is better. I hope Methos is better.
 
Daphne and Aida said:
Of course, you're totally right! I was just giving the note I had made from the papers I had read, with the dose for MY cats! I should have thought about it before sharing, sorry for the confusion!

And I agree 100%, if you're to give more, talk about it with your vet Betsy. Q10 is good, but its effect is strong. It shouldn't be stopped at once for example but tapered off slowly. I guess it would be good to also start it slowly, I mean start with a token and slowly up the dose to 5mg daily.

Some special spoons help measure either 1/8th or 1/16 of a teaspoon. I use the 1/8 to dose the supplements for my cats. Found them on amazon.fr, I guess that you'll have a much bigger choice on amazon.com.
I made a conversion table at one point with each one of the supplements, calculating the strength and the recommended daily dose in mg converted in this special spoon, and I got used to using it.
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I hope we have time to start the Q10, Lulu is not doing well today and we are afraid it is getting too late her to get better. Only 2 days of antibiotics to go but she is not eating tonight. I hope it is better tomorrow. Her spreadsheet chart is all up and running, thank you so much for your help. It is so hard to feel so helpless.
 
Oh no im so sorry, I really hope that she’ll surprise you and us all, that the antibiotic will have an effect…
Hugs to you and your little big family, lots of love!
 
She barely ate last night PMPS so we gave 0nly gave her a fat 0.5 and gave her treats and went ahead with the testing. She was flat @ 326 PMPS, 332, +2, 336, + 4, 343, +6 & 345 +8 and 355 AMPS I can't write it down correctly, maybe I did, we stayed awake until 4:00 AM bu tI am sure it is correct on her spreadsheet. Anyway it was flat and still is. She was in bed with me and looks about the same this morning and she ate enough for a full AM full shot of 0.75. Going back to bed and hoping she is better in an hour at +2 again and fluid time. I don't know how it took an hour to get this done but she is sleeping soundly with her daughter Bojo right now.
 
Lulu's person said:
She barely ate last night PMPS so we gave 0nly gave her a fat 0.5 and gave her treats and went ahead with the testing. She was flat @ 326 PMPS, 332, +2, 336, + 4, 343, +6 & 345 +8 and 355 AMPS I can't write it down correctly, maybe I did, we stayed awake until 4:00 AM bu tI am sure it is correct on her spreadsheet. Anyway it was flat and still is. She was in bed with me and looks about the same this morning and she ate enough for a full AM full shot of 0.75. Going back to bed and hoping she is better in an hour at +2 again and fluid time. I don't know how it took an hour to get this done but she is sleeping soundly with her daughter Bojo right now.
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I’m so sorry she’s struggling so much. You’re doing an amazing job—no one could do better. Few kitties make it to her age even without health issues. No matter what happens you’ve given her a long, wonderful life.
:bighug:
 
Thank you. We had to say goodbye to her this morning. She got up on my bed and slept with me last night but told us it was time for her to go this morning. We had her cremated this afternoon. What a sweet and precious girls she has been. Thank you for you support. We have a huge emptiness in our hearts.
 
Oh no, Betsy I'm so sorry for your loss, how marvelous that you could share so many many years with her, it must be tough and I'm really sorry…
Don't hesitate to reach out if you need anything. We're here for you.
Big hug to your big family!
 
Daphne and Aida said:
Oh no, Betsy I'm so sorry for your loss, how marvelous that you could share so many many years with her, it must be tough and I'm really sorry…
Don't hesitate to reach out if you need anything. We're here for you.
Big hug to your big family!
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Thank you so much for all you have done to help me with Lulu. My blessings to you, Aida and everyone struggling with a sick fur baby. I am so very fortunate that she kept going as long as she did. She loved life and had a long and happy one. She is at peace and the only pain left now is in our hearts.
 
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