Addison's and Diabetes Lulu's new thread

Did you mean to post this thread here on the ProZinc forum? This forum is mainly for cats on ProZinc and their people who need hep with their ProZinc. I don’t think you wanted any assistance with the insulin but had other questions.
How is Lulu doing now, by the way? Did you change anything about her meds or find out any new information about her condition?
 
How is Lulu doing?

About the platelets that Smallest Sparrow mentions
SmallestSparrow said:
In the species that walks upright thrombocytosis (increased platelets) is often reactive (like he said about the wbc, is increased because of something else going on)—often due to an inflammatory process or malignancy. Methos has had an elevated wbc for some time with a reactive pattern—probably from his tumor but since he’s also had very high fPL it could be an inflamed pancreas as well.

In (human) patients I’d be concerned about potential for clots when platelets are that high (idk at what level it’s an issue for cats) so pending a chance to talk with your vet maybe have a high index of suspicion if she behaves in anyway like she’s got a clot.

I hope she starts to improve soon :bighug:
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Feloro also had at some point, I followed online advice after reading on Tanya’s website about Q10 supplementation and its positive antioxydative effects.
The info from the site is here: https://felinecrf.org/treatments_waste_products_regulation.htm#coq10

Some additional studies that I had found specific to platelets:
From 2022: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9604356/
1997: https://journals.lww.com/cardiovasc...ry_coenzyme_q10_supplementation_alters.3.aspx
2023 more general about thrombocytosis: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10812056/
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Did you mean to post this thread here on the ProZinc forum? This forum is mainly for cats on ProZinc and their people who need hep with their ProZinc. I don’t think you wanted any assistance with the insulin but had other questions.
How is Lulu doing now, by the way? Did you change anything about her meds or find out any new information about her condition?
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I don't know why it did, it just went here. She is on ProZinc and has been for 8 years. She was stable until January when something happened and she suddenly ended up at the ER three times having dangerously low glucose. We had to reduce her insulin from 4 units 2x daily to 3/4 units 2x daily to get her regulated again but she began losing weight. She began fludrocortisone for Addison's 90 days ago because of blood tests that indicated she has it and improved improved but not enough. We just began prednisone this week, it is contraindicated for diabetic cats and is likely to have an effect on her insulin dose. We are trying to balance her two conditions DM and Addison's with new medications plus possible need to deal with complications in her insulin dose. Perhaps her condition is too complex for new people beginning ProZinc but I do have a lot of experience with it. Please let me know if you think this belongs on a different forum and tell me what forum that would be. I will try to change it if you think I should but I don't know how it got here to begin with. I just clicked start new forum and wrote in the new name and this is where it went.
 
You are most welcome here and everywhere on the FDMB!! It’s just that the Feline Health Board has more people looking at it. A lot of the time, it’s only the ProZinc users over here (they are great people.) You have been using ProZinc for 8 years and are very experienced with it, I know. I will say that there are other people on the FDMB who have cats on steroids and they just have to work with the insulin dose to manage things. Some don’t take the steroid (usually prednisolone) every day and the BG is elevated on the days their cat is taking it— so they need to make adjustments if possible or just wait until the BG goes down. Personally, I think making adjustments would be easier with ProZinc than the depot insulins, but we have members using Lantus/glargine who also have cats who must take steroids for other conditions.
 
Daphne and Aida said:
How is Lulu doing?

About the platelets that Smallest Sparrow mentions


Feloro also had at some point, I followed online advice after reading on Tanya’s website about Q10 supplementation and its positive antioxydative effects.
The info from the site is here: https://felinecrf.org/treatments_waste_products_regulation.htm#coq10

Some additional studies that I had found specific to platelets:
From 2022: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9604356/
1997: https://journals.lww.com/cardiovasc...ry_coenzyme_q10_supplementation_alters.3.aspx
2023 more general about thrombocytosis: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10812056/
Click to expand...

What a wealth of information. Thank you. Way too much for me to absorb right now but I will read more. From what I read before we started giving the cats FortaFlora last week and I was thinking about Q10 even though I did not know it helped with inflammation or platelets. I have it for myself but neglect to take it. I take better care of my cats than myself which I shouldn't but it is easier with them. My glucose is likely to be sky high at my doctor's appointment next week because of the stress and related stress eating. I'm not on insulin yest but taking a medication but let's stick with Lulu's situation.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
You are most welcome here and everywhere on the FDMB!! It’s just that the Feline Health Board has more people looking at it. A lot of the time, it’s only the ProZinc users over here (they are great people.) You have been using ProZinc for 8 years and are very experienced with it, I know. I will say that there are other people on the FDMB who have cats on steroids and they just have to work with the insulin dose to manage things. Some don’t take the steroid (usually prednisolone) every day and the BG is elevated on the days their cat is taking it— so they need to make adjustments if possible or just wait until the BG goes down. Personally, I think making adjustments would be easier with ProZinc than the depot insulins, but we have members using Lantus/glargine who also have cats who must take steroids for other conditions.
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Thank you. May I put this thread in another forum on the FDMB board as well or is my only choice moving this one out of the ProZinc forum? You are correct that I am familiar with feline DM and Prozinc and even using the board's fantastic information since our crisis in January. But I am new to the participating in the forum and still trying to learn how it works. Is there an index of forums and sub-forums I could look at to better understand how it works?
 
Lulu's person said:
What a wealth of information. Thank you. Way too much for me to absorb right now but I will read more. From what I read before we started giving the cats FortaFlora last week and I was thinking about Q10 even though I did not know it helped with inflammation or platelets. I have it for myself but neglect to take it. I take better care of my cats than myself which I shouldn't but it is easier with them. My glucose is likely to be sky high at my doctor's appointment next week because of the stress and related stress eating. I'm not on insulin yest but taking a medication but let's stick with Lulu's situation.
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Forti flora yes! That’s a probiotic, single strain, many people shun or even scoff at it because of it, but cats tend to like it.
More generally, I’ve read that the object of feline microbiome has been disregarded for up to very recently. It’s been a couple - maybe more like 5 to 10 - years that research has started on it, and it has startled vets, because for cats, as for humans and as for any mammal I guess (here a scientific mind is welcomed to fill in all my enormous gaps), the link between gut microbiome and brain, and consequently liver and kidneys and all the rest, is very very strong and plays an enormous role in general health. It’s very good to feed gut’s bacteria!
I’m exactly like you, my cats get so many extras and I try to take care as much as I possibly can of them, and I usually forget to take my own medication and supplements etc… I really hope that your BG will be ok… I tested mine yesterday phew it was within range…
 
Lulu's person said:
Thank you. May I put this thread in another forum on the FDMB board as well or is my only choice moving this one out of the ProZinc forum? You are correct that I am familiar with feline DM and Prozinc and even using the board's fantastic information since our crisis in January. But I am new to the participating in the forum and still trying to learn how it works. Is there an index of forums and sub-forums I could look at to better understand how it works?
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I don’t know the rules but my guess would be you can post in the Health forum where @Suzanne & Darcy recommended and copy the URL from this post and paste it so if anyone cares they can come over here. Maybe restate your questions about Lulu, mention your original post got too long so starting a new one, put URL from original and URL from this one.

you will get more attention in the Health board probably. I’ll look for you everywhere ;)

edit: just remember to check both forums since you may get replies in both places. :bighug: To you and Lulu
 
To make sure it’s in the Feline Health forum go to the main forum page then to the Feline Heslrh tab then at the bottom is new post button. I’ll see if I can link the place
 
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Daphne and Aida said:
Forti flora yes! That’s a probiotic, single strain, many people shun or even scoff at it because of it, but cats tend to like it.
More generally, I’ve read that the object of feline microbiome has been disregarded for up to very recently. It’s been a couple - maybe more like 5 to 10 - years that research has started on it, and it has startled vets, because for cats, as for humans and as for any mammal I guess (here a scientific mind is welcomed to fill in all my enormous gaps), the link between gut microbiome and brain, and consequently liver and kidneys and all the rest, is very very strong and plays an enormous role in general health. It’s very good to feed gut’s bacteria!
I’m exactly like you, my cats get so many extras and I try to take care as much as I possibly can of them, and I usually forget to take my own medication and supplements etc… I really hope that your BG will be ok… I tested mine yesterday phew it was within range…
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, after I bought the Forti Flora I read it might or might not be the best but I guess I will stick with it. The cats like it. Now I am looking at Coenzyme Q-10 for her. Everything is so confusing. I use a Freetsyle reader every few weeks or months for myself (Lulu would not tolerate it). Mine has always been good but my A1C is high sometimes @ doctor. Continuous Glucose monitors like Freestyle are not covered by insurance except for extreme diabetics but it helps me keep track before I get so bad that insurance will cover it. It seems it would help prevent diabetes and reduce their costs but insurance never makes much sense.
 
SmallestSparrow said:
View attachment 71057View attachment 71057
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Thank you for the list of forums, I started another one on the Main forum. I was so confused the first time I did not even know where it went but I like being on the Prozinc forum too. I am trying to do everything right and hope it is okay to have her on both. This is such wonderful source, full of helpful information that I have been using for months. Now I finally joined and have found so many fantastic, knowledgeable and loving people. I am very happy to be here.

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lulu-has-diabetes-and-addisons-disease.294276/
 
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A HgbA1C is a long term look at glucose levels, similar to a fructosamine test a vet might do for a diabetic cat. So it’s possible to do occasional spot checks with a meter yet miss the days sugar isn’t quite as good, and have a mildly elevated Hgb A1C. Also, no meter is as accurate as a lab test.

I hope everyone’s sugar levels are ideal, people and pets!
 
SmallestSparrow said:
A HgbA1C is a long term look at glucose levels, similar to a fructosamine test a vet might do for a diabetic cat. So it’s possible to do occasional spot checks with a meter yet miss the days sugar isn’t quite as good, and have a mildly elevated Hgb A1C. Also, no meter is as accurate as a lab test.

I hope everyone’s sugar levels are ideal, people and pets!
Click to expand...

Her Fructosamine was slightly elevated in March was 357 range 143-373 <405 good regulation
 
I might have lost this info in the flow of posts here, but did you actually told us how Lulu is doing? Is she any better?
I really really hope for both of you that you both are healthy!

Insurance companies… At least here in Europe they do tend to function the way they should, although the last year or so I had to pay an enormous “contribution” to basic prevention tests in France, (we have a type of cancer in the family and we have to get regularly tested) and my sister in Germany didn’t pay a cent for the same test.
I still have to see how things have become here in Greece since the crisis and the IMF interventions.

Tell us how is she doing?
 
Daphne and Aida said:
I might have lost this info in the flow of posts here, but did you actually told us how Lulu is doing? Is she any better?
I really really hope for both of you that you both are healthy!

Insurance companies… At least here in Europe they do tend to function the way they should, although the last year or so I had to pay an enormous “contribution” to basic prevention tests in France, (we have a type of cancer in the family and we have to get regularly tested) and my sister in Germany didn’t pay a cent for the same test.
I still have to see how things have become here in Greece since the crisis and the IMF interventions.

Tell us how is she doing?
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Insurance used to be simple until it changed to "health care" here in the USA. It only paid for serious accidents or illnesses but it paid. It did not even cover my c-Section back then but I still liked it better. I guess it is crazy everywhere now. Fortunately we are able to have Cadillac insurance coverage by driving an old Ford; otherwise I think my husband would have been dead twice. I hope you are able to get your test soon and with insurance, it is essential. Tests for cancer are what saved my husband's life. My sister did not get the best tests and she was diagnosed too late. My brother missed one test and he was diagnosed too late too.

Lulu is holding her own; still dehydrating and needing sub-Qs and losing weight with glucose charts good most of the time except for the occasional low nadir, flat curve or too low PMPS to shoot. We do not shoot under 200 because she has crashed at that level. We sometimes give her a skinny shot or token shot depending on the PS reading. As far as activity, appetite, eating, pooping and mood she is doing great. Her recent blood work was not bad, only a few strange things out of normal. It is posted on the previous thread. She is getting a little weaker and a little slower but she still acts younger than her kittens or our other two geriatrics. She is our energizer bunny in spite of her potentially critical issues. The weight loss and dehydration are our biggest concerns. Why???? That is what we do not know.
 
Lulu's person said:
Fortunately we are able to have Cadillac insurance coverage by driving an old Ford; otherwise I think my husband would have been dead twice. I hope you are able to get your test soon and with insurance, it is essential. Tests for cancer are what saved my husband's life. My sister did not get the best tests and she was diagnosed too late. My brother missed one test and he was diagnosed too late too.
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A CADILLAC insurance coverage?? Like your car partly pays for your health care? That’s so crazy! I’d honestly never heard of such a thing before! Talking about privatizing everything, that is really really crazy…

I am so sorry for the double loss of your sister and brother…

Lulu's person said:
Lulu is holding her own; still dehydrating and needing sub-Qs and losing weight with glucose charts good most of the time except for the occasional low nadir, flat curve or too low PMPS to shoot. We do not shoot under 200 because she has crashed at that level. We sometimes give her a skinny shot or token shot depending on the PS reading. As far as activity, appetite, eating, pooping and mood she is doing great. Her recent blood work was not bad, only a few strange things out of normal. It is posted on the previous thread. She is getting a little weaker and a little slower but she still acts younger than her kittens or our other two geriatrics. She is our energizer bunny in spite of her potentially critical issues. The weight loss and dehydration are our biggest concerns. Why???? That is what we do not know.
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And the vet has no idea either about both issues of dehydration and weight loss? Maybe seeing an internist? There’s also this vet that specialises in Cushings disease, but he might have an idea, since both Addisons and Cushings are located at the adrenal glands. His name is Dr. Steve Marsden DVM, an Integrative Veterinarian, he works 100% holistic/Chinese medicine although he says that he also gives conventional veterinary advice. His web-site: www.AskDrSteveDVM.com, and then the facebook group where you can directly present the case and ask for advice: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1158575954706282

I had asked there for Aida, but I think that I’m a sceptic regarding holistic medicine and I didn’t follow his advice. Aida is good so far. No idea if she truly has Cushings, since her response to insulin is great.
 
Daphne and Aida said:
A CADILLAC insurance coverage?? Like your car partly pays for your health care? That’s so crazy! I’d honestly never heard of such a thing before! Talking about privatizing everything, that is really really crazy…

I am so sorry for the double loss of your sister and brother…


And the vet has no idea either about both issues of dehydration and weight loss? Maybe seeing an internist? There’s also this vet that specialises in Cushings disease, but he might have an idea, since both Addisons and Cushings are located at the adrenal glands. His name is Dr. Steve Marsden DVM, an Integrative Veterinarian, he works 100% holistic/Chinese medicine although he says that he also gives conventional veterinary advice. His web-site: www.AskDrSteveDVM.com, and then the facebook group where you can directly present the case and ask for advice: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1158575954706282

I had asked there for Aida, but I think that I’m a sceptic regarding holistic medicine and I didn’t follow his advice. Aida is good so far. No idea if she truly has Cushings, since her response to insulin is great.
Click to expand...
Daphne and Aida said:
I might have lost this info in the flow of posts here, but did you actually told us how Lulu is doing? Is she any better?
I really really hope for both of you that you both are healthy!

Insurance companies… At least here in Europe they do tend to function the way they should, although the last year or so I had to pay an enormous “contribution” to basic prevention tests in France, (we have a type of cancer in the family and we have to get regularly tested) and my sister in Germany didn’t pay a cent for the same test.
I still have to see how things have become here in Greece since the crisis and the IMF interventions.

Tell us how is she doing?
Click to expand...
 

Daphne and Aida said:
A CADILLAC insurance coverage?? Like your car partly pays for your health care? That’s so crazy! I’d honestly never heard of such a thing before! Talking about privatizing everything, that is really really crazy…

I am so sorry for the double loss of your sister and brother…


And the vet has no idea either about both issues of dehydration and weight loss? Maybe seeing an internist? There’s also this vet that specialises in Cushings disease, but he might have an idea, since both Addisons and Cushings are located at the adrenal glands. His name is Dr. Steve Marsden DVM, an Integrative Veterinarian, he works 100% holistic/Chinese medicine although he says that he also gives conventional veterinary advice. His web-site: www.AskDrSteveDVM.com, and then the facebook group where you can directly present the case and ask for advice: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1158575954706282

I had asked there for Aida, but I think that I’m a sceptic regarding holistic medicine and I didn’t follow his advice. Aida is good so far. No idea if she truly has Cushings, since her response to insulin is great.[/QUOT

Yes, in the USA some people would rather drive a new Cadillac on credit and forget about medical insurance. My mother died of cancer when I was 18 so I learned the hard way how important good medical treatment is. Private insurance is much better here than most Government plans. Our VP and presidential candidate wants to put everyone on Medicare and get rid of private insurance. That sounds crazy and scary to me. Different countries; different ideas and different medical care. Who knows what is best but I do like the choice we have here now.

Addison's and Cushing's are both adrenal conditions but they are almost opposite of each other. Good reference information on either has been helpful. Lulu was great on insulin for 8 years before she had this sudden downfall and low blood glucose. Her Addison's diagnosis is indicated but not certain but at this point we have to try everything within reason. I hope Aida stays well on her insulin. Thank you for the holistic vet but I think I'll stick with my vet, I'm a skeptic about holistic medicine too but I have tried a few for my own aches and pains...nothing serious.
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Oh I just saw your response buried in your quote! :)
Yes both conditions are somehow “opposite”.
I have never tried holistic for myself, one of my sister is married to a holistic doctor, their children aren’t vaccinated, they got Covid multiple times, everything is treated with herbs and homeopathic stuff. It works for them so far, although they do need a LOT of time for recovery. I guess with medicine, as with many things, psychology plays a huge part in everything!
 
Daphne and Aida said:
How is Lulu doing?

About the platelets that Smallest Sparrow mentions


Feloro also had at some point, I followed online advice after reading on Tanya’s website about Q10 supplementation and its positive antioxydative effects.
The info from the site is here: https://felinecrf.org/treatments_waste_products_regulation.htm#coq10

Some additional studies that I had found specific to platelets:
From 2022: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9604356/
1997: https://journals.lww.com/cardiovasc...ry_coenzyme_q10_supplementation_alters.3.aspx
2023 more general about thrombocytosis: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10812056/
Click to expand...
 
Daphne and Aida said:
How is Lulu doing?

About the platelets that Smallest Sparrow mentions

@SmallestSparrow

Feloro also had at some point, I followed online advice after reading on Tanya’s website about Q10 supplementation and its positive antioxydative effects.
The info from the site is here: https://felinecrf.org/treatments_waste_products_regulation.htm#coq10

Some additional studies that I had found specific to platelets:
From 2022: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9604356/
1997: https://journals.lww.com/cardiovasc...ry_coenzyme_q10_supplementation_alters.3.aspx
2023 more general about thrombocytosis: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10812056/
Click to expand...

My vet says the platelets test results are unreliable and he is not concerned. IMHO it might be related to her dehydration. He also says he questions any supplements because they are not FDA tested or approved and studies have shown that many do not contain what the advertise. But he says to use our own judgement on that.

Lulu got an antibiotic from the vet today, just in case her blood work indicated infection vs. just inflammation. It can't hurt a this point and it will be good to know that there is no hidden infection causing or exasperating her condition. The prednisone she started last week has seemed to reduce her stress and make her feel better. She is being less clingy and acting more like her old independent self but not hiding so that is good. I almost miss her being on my lap all day every day as she has been doing. So far there is no negative effect of the prednisone increasing her blood glucose and it is to soon to know if it is helping some unknown inflammation. So we are hitting the possibilities from both sides and hoping one or the other helps her continuous weight loss and dehydration. Please, everyone cross your fingers.
 
Dehydration can absolutely cause the platelet count to be artificially higher. In cats, it's actually more common to see a low result - and there was a study done that showed that low platelets are always the result of platelet clumping in the blood sample. There are several reasons for this, but the individual cat's stress level absolutely plays a part. I do agree on supplements. I think there is a lot of "noise" on the internet about various supplements, but very little to no evidence that they actually help.

I think the antibiotic is a good idea. Pred, of course, has some immunosuppressant qualities (although likely not strong ones at the low dose you're giving). But it does mean that you have to stamp on any possible infection pretty fast. So giving an antibiotic if there are signs of potential infection makes sense in an older cat. If she were 2 years old instead of 20, I might be more cautious to avoid any opportunity to build antibiotic resistance. But at 20, the chances of one course of antibiotics building enough resistance to be problematic is minimal. I'm very happy to hear that her glucose isn't being negatively affected by the pred at this point. Of course, as we all know, what's happening today with a cat is often not a great predictor of what may happen tomorrow...but it sounds like a case of so far, so good which is great to hear. I really hope that the antibiotic, or the pred, or a combination of both continues to have her feeling more like her independent self.
 
manxcat419 said:
Dehydration can absolutely cause the platelet count to be artificially higher. In cats, it's actually more common to see a low result - and there was a study done that showed that low platelets are always the result of platelet clumping in the blood sample. There are several reasons for this, but the individual cat's stress level absolutely plays a part. I do agree on supplements. I think there is a lot of "noise" on the internet about various supplements, but very little to no evidence that they actually help.

I think the antibiotic is a good idea. Pred, of course, has some immunosuppressant qualities (although likely not strong ones at the low dose you're giving). But it does mean that you have to stamp on any possible infection pretty fast. So giving an antibiotic if there are signs of potential infection makes sense in an older cat. If she were 2 years old instead of 20, I might be more cautious to avoid any opportunity to build antibiotic resistance. But at 20, the chances of one course of antibiotics building enough resistance to be problematic is minimal. I'm very happy to hear that her glucose isn't being negatively affected by the pred at this point. Of course, as we all know, what's happening today with a cat is often not a great predictor of what may happen tomorrow...but it sounds like a case of so far, so good which is great to hear. I really hope that the antibiotic, or the pred, or a combination of both continues to have her feeling more like her independent self.
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Thank you. We are at a loss of what to do about the dehydration except keep using the lactated ringers daily. I wish she didn't fight it so much but she gets lots of treats afterwards and definitely feels better. She does get very stressed at the vet so maybe that is one reason he was not terribly concerned about the platelets. We age giving her the probiotics and I think Q-10 couldn't hurt. I have some for myself and will try to find some in a small enough does for her. I wonder if human quality is better that feline quality?

I did not know that Pred had an immunosuppressant effect. That may be why her 18 year old kitten, Caledoinia is having flareups with her chronic eye condition. We haven antibiotic eye solution for the flare ups (they are not too bad) but she seems to need it more often since she went on pred for cancer and spinal spondalosis. So far she seems comfortable and in no pain. I've gotten a spread sheet up for Lulu with the help of another very kind and helpful member here. She entered the current month but now I can fill in her history...not back to January when she suddenly went off of 4 units. She actually came to wake me up back then with symptoms of hypoglycemia that first time so I jumped into action with the Karo and to the ER in the middle of the night. That is where her photo on here was taken after she had recovered from a near death experience. It is such a precious "please take me home" face and I was so happy to see it even in jail with the "party hat".

You are right on track with the up and down situations every day. Sometimes I think it is just my imagination or her begging for treats. The ups and downs are not hardly noticeable but I keep my eye on her condition constantly in case of another hypoglycemic crisis. She hasn't had a real crisis since January but she has been too low for comfort a few times...on 3/4 unit. I think the pred could be a good thing to get her nadirs up and get her AMPS & PMPS high enough that we do not have to skip shots. Your help is a blessing, thank you.
 
Lulu's person said:
. I wonder if human quality is better that feline quality?
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I’ve wondered about pharmacy control also but then, supplements like coq-10 etc not have very stringent standards for humans either. If I can find something made for cats I’d prefer that bc then I don’t have to worry about flavoring etc—many human spiranolactone tablets have a very strong mint flavir/smell.
Edit: this past early summer Walgreens switched from the Amneal company generic spiranolactone to a different brand. Very very minty. I called them and they had another less minty brand—I went back and bought that. Also very very minty. It was too hot to order from chewy. I spent a day calling pharmacies near and far and finally found one that had 100 tablets. I begged them to hold it until my vet was back in office to prescribe. When I picked it up and explained the situation (stressing to look for a bottle put aside by the nice female weekend pharmacist) the guy looked at me like I was crazy (as I explained the other brands I’d tried) but when he handed it to me asked me to open bottle so he could smell it…I warily said “ok, smell but don’t taste, I need all of these to last until it’s cold enough here for Chewy to ship more”.
 
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We are making progress! :) You need to change the permissions on the spreadsheet to be “anyone with the link has access.” Of course, it’s read only access. People with the link cannot change your SS.
 
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SmallestSparrow said:
I’ve wondered about pharmacy control also but then, supplements like coq-10 etc not have very stringent standards for humans either. If I can find something made for cats I’d prefer that bc then I don’t have to worry about flavoring etc—many human spiranolactone tablets have a very strong mint flavir/smell.
Edit: this past early summer Walgreens switched from the Amneal company generic spiranolactone to a different brand. Very very minty. I called them and they had another less minty brand—I went back and bought that. Also very very minty. It was too hot to order from chewy. I spent a day calling pharmacies near and far and finally found one that had 100 tablets. I begged them to hold it until my vet was back in office to prescribe. When I picked it up and explained the situation (stressing to look for a bottle put aside by the nice female weekend pharmacist) the guy looked at me like I was crazy (as I explained the other brands I’d tried) but when he handed it to me asked me to open bottle so he could smell it…I warily said “ok, smell but don’t taste, I need all of these to last until it’s cold enough here for Chewy to ship more”.
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I found some Q 10 for cats on Amazon. 10 mg That sounds like a very low dose???
 
Lulu's person said:
I found some Q 10 for cats on Amazon. 10 mg That sounds like a very low dose???
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Idk. I haven’t researched it but if it’s made for cats probably ok. I’ll try to look tonight since I’ve chickened out of a shot tonight (yeah yeah all you old hands I’m a coward but let sleeping adrenals lie is what I always say. )
 
Lulu's person said:
I found some Q 10 for cats on Amazon. 10 mg That sounds like a very low dose???
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The internet tells me 10mg per 10 pounds of body weight so if true you’d probably need to split the pill. You may want to post a question about dose of coQ-10 on the general health forum because I’m sure there are people using it especially those with cats with heart issues.

this is a link to the general health forum https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-welcome-main-forum.28/
 
I think the papers I posted (here? On another thread about Lulu?) do mention the dosage used during the studies. Trying to find on my own notes, still messy in the new flat!
So sorry for your loss Suzanne…

Edit: that was fast! SO, I’ve noted that 10mg is the conservative dose that is recommended.
I use human Q-10 because I’d read that they are more controlled than the ones made for animals. The capsules come in human dose strength (30mg), so I split it in three (approximately, 10mg for Feloro, 10mg for Aida)
 
I don’t mean to argue with anyone’s advice but I’ve only found a recommendation of 10mg per 10 pounds of weight here’s one site
https://www.drugs.com/vet/coenzyme-q10-10mg.html
And I attach the bottle instruction from another below.

I think since most cats are about 10 pounds most people will say 10 mg.

But lulu is not 10 pounds. She’s not even 5 pounds so unless OK by your vet —-if it were me I’d err on the conservative side and go with 5 mg at least to start (I’d be hesitant to do more without a vet’s approval. This can be done by splitting a 10 mg tablet or approximating half out of a 10mg capsule.

If anyone has experience using this at 10mg strength in a 4.5 pound cat then I bow to their experience.
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I hope she’s doing ok
 

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SmallestSparrow said:
I don’t mean to argue with anyone’s advice but I’ve only found a recommendation of 10mg per 10 pounds of weight here’s one site
https://www.drugs.com/vet/coenzyme-q10-10mg.html
And I attach the bottle instruction from another below.

I think since most cats are about 10 pounds most people will say 10 mg.

But lulu is not 10 pounds. She’s not even 5 pounds so unless OK by your vet —-if it were me I’d err on the conservative side and go with 5 mg at least to start (I’d be hesitant to do more without a vet’s approval. This can be done by splitting a 10 mg tablet or approximating half out of a 10mg capsule.

If anyone has experience using this at 10mg strength in a 4.5 pound cat then I bow to their experience.
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I hope she’s doing ok
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Of course, you're totally right! I was just giving the note I had made from the papers I had read, with the dose for MY cats! I should have thought about it before sharing, sorry for the confusion!

And I agree 100%, if you're to give more, talk about it with your vet Betsy. Q10 is good, but its effect is strong. It shouldn't be stopped at once for example but tapered off slowly. I guess it would be good to also start it slowly, I mean start with a token and slowly up the dose to 5mg daily.

Some special spoons help measure either 1/8th or 1/16 of a teaspoon. I use the 1/8 to dose the supplements for my cats. Found them on amazon.fr, I guess that you'll have a much bigger choice on amazon.com.
I made a conversion table at one point with each one of the supplements, calculating the strength and the recommended daily dose in mg converted in this special spoon, and I got used to using it.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
My cat who passed July 12 received 20 mg. CoQ10 daily. I used Vetri Science Cardio Strength. My veterinary cardiologist approved of this dose.
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I'm so sorry you lost your fur baby. I'm preparing but I know from experience we are never prepared. I'll ask the vet about dose. I was hoping to pill her because she is so finicky about eating.
 
Daphne and Aida said:
Of course, you're totally right! I was just giving the note I had made from the papers I had read, with the dose for MY cats! I should have thought about it before sharing, sorry for the confusion!

And I agree 100%, if you're to give more, talk about it with your vet Betsy. Q10 is good, but its effect is strong. It shouldn't be stopped at once for example but tapered off slowly. I guess it would be good to also start it slowly, I mean start with a token and slowly up the dose to 5mg daily.

Some special spoons help measure either 1/8th or 1/16 of a teaspoon. I use the 1/8 to dose the supplements for my cats. Found them on amazon.fr, I guess that you'll have a much bigger choice on amazon.com.
I made a conversion table at one point with each one of the supplements, calculating the strength and the recommended daily dose in mg converted in this special spoon, and I got used to using it.
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I used to take mega doses but would not want to overdose Lulu. I'm also waiting until she finishes her antibiotics to keep from causing too much med changes at once. Thank you all for your input. I was thinking 10 mg was not enough and now I know it is probably too much. I wish I could find a tablet I could cut in half. She is good at taking pills, not so much having things added to her food. Maybe the vet will know. I doubt it he is not into supplements. I'll keep looking.
 
Daphne and Aida said:
Of course, you're totally right! I was just giving the note I had made from the papers I had read, with the dose for MY cats! I should have thought about it before sharing, sorry for the confusion!

And I agree 100%, if you're to give more, talk about it with your vet Betsy. Q10 is good, but its effect is strong. It shouldn't be stopped at once for example but tapered off slowly. I guess it would be good to also start it slowly, I mean start with a token and slowly up the dose to 5mg daily.

Some special spoons help measure either 1/8th or 1/16 of a teaspoon. I use the 1/8 to dose the supplements for my cats. Found them on amazon.fr, I guess that you'll have a much bigger choice on amazon.com.
I made a conversion table at one point with each one of the supplements, calculating the strength and the recommended daily dose in mg converted in this special spoon, and I got used to using it.
Click to expand...

I think I might get the liquid and start with a token. Maybe she will not turn up her nose at it. She is getting so spoiled with all of the foods we keep trying but she is still losing weight. She is so skinny it makes me want to cry but she is happy. I noticed in the past few days she is getting weaker, missing her jumps a few times. I hope it is just the antibiotics but probably not. Just keep on trying, I wonder if the insulin is even working to get the glucose into her cells. It is clearly working too well off and on with her blood glucose levels plummeting too much sometimes. We have to avoid that at all costs but I hate missing a shot when she is too low. Vets all say don't shoot her below 200 and we are more cautious at night when we can't watch her.
 
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