New Member Lulu, diabetic 20 year old cat

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I will grant the ER found his tumor (somewhat accidentally) so I’m grateful to them. But…I took him bc he’d stopped eating. While normally thin and muscular he’d put on a lot of weight so I was terrified he’d destroy his liver. They admitted him and said if he didn’t eat they’d put a tube down. I got a hotel room down the road. I went constantly to ask how he was doing. They always had an excuse why they hadn’t yet started feeding him. I was in tears as I pleaded with the night vet to please start feeding my tubby cat who’d not eaten in going on four days. They finally let me go back to see him to try to get him to eat. My heart broke when I saw his entire cage covered with a 2x3’ bright pink caution sign.
For his ACTH stim tests it takes a village: our wonderful vet to oversee and calculate doses, his favorite two techs, one to massage him (and stealthily hold him), the other (best at blood draws), and me holding chicken breast in front of his nose. And him on gabapentin. He’s a huge boy with big polydactyl paws and the first time we used this system he wasn’t as groggy. So he reached both paws up to bring my hand closer. His paws cover half of my hand (I have small hands) —everyone else in the room gasped but he never lets his claws out with me. Next time we doubled his gabapentin.
That was basically what the first ER did with Roxi during her Addison's crisis. Roxi had got to 18 lbs while having Cushing's because she was simply starving all the time. We'd got her down to 14 lbs before surgery by being incredibly strict with her food. She lost weight post-surgery, which we expected...but during that crisis she dropped to 6.6 lbs. And she isn't a small cat (her ideal weight is around 11-12 lbs). So her liver was already at risk...and then they put her on D5W and made no attempt to get her to eat. Of course, her electrolytes were all jacked up into the bargain. But we really thought she was on her way out.

Your boy sounds a lot like Rosa (my previous diabetic). She, and her twin Regan, had been feral as kittens. And with Rosa, that feral came out at the vet. She never, ever hurt anyone but she was incredibly skilled at making them think she might. But even in her most feral-appearing moments, the one thing I knew for certain was that she would not hurt me under any circumstances. So I would hold her for blood draws etc - this was before I worked in the vet field - because she would allow things to be done if I was holding her.

We handled Roxi rather differently. By then I was working in a clinic. So she would get a kitty muzzle and I would always be the one to draw her blood - that way if she got the muzzle off and took a sneaky snap at anyone, it would be me because I was the one standing in front of her. She was never concerned about hurting me or my husband, so we were as much at risk as anyone else. But if anyone was going to get bitten, I made sure it was going to be me. She's since lost all her teeth so I don't worry quite so much.
 
I also agree with the ultrasound but to check for IBD. My cat Simon was losing weight a couple years ago. All of his bloodwork was normal. My vet referred us to an internal med vet. They did an ultrasound and also a test to see how well he was absorbing nutrients from his food. That turned out to be the issue. We originally started on a prescription hydrolyzed food and it worked. However I eventually switched to a homemade diet using a recipe from a FB group for IBD cats. He has been on that diet for over 2 years and is doing great. Even though he is not diabetic, the recipe is low carb and works for diabetic cats.
It sounds worth checking. Maybe she does need to see a specialist. Thank you.
 
At the time, I remember being more angry than scared if I'm honest. I could see the problem, but for some reason the ER vets either couldn't see it or refused to see it. I yelled at one of them on the phone, then drove straight down there and broke her out AMA. On the way there, I'd called the other ER, explained the situation and got their buy in on taking a chance on starting meds. We'd just put her through a $12000 surgery - there was no way I was going to watch them sit on their hands while she died right in front of them.

Our old ER was good but had issues. The ER we took Lulu to is a new emerging chain. We have used them in two states and been very pleased compared to our previous ER vet. I don't know if it is allowed to recommend something on here but they actually have tiny rooms where you can spend time with your pet when they are not getting treatment and even stay the night with your pet in fold out beds and the works, not the Ritz but absolutely fantastic compared to leaving a sick fur baby alone. We were allowed to watch all procedures and tests without leaving her side and the results were almost instantaneous. X-ray's were easy and without sedation but we could still watch through the window.
 
Why do they do this!! When my boy was in the ER for a week and would not eat for days I kept sounding the alarm on the fact that he was not eating. It took until Wednesday evening (four days after being admitted) them to implant an E tube and only then did he begin to improve. He did get hepatic lipidosis too, so that made the recovery longer.

How is Lulu today @Lulu's person ?

Lulu is exhausted today, as are we, she threw up some liquid this morning and is not eating well and dehydrated. Her glucose reading was too low (mid 100's) for 3/4 unit shot last night and the night before or even a token shot. We gave her fluids with the new better syringe method twice already today, gave her an appetite stimulant so she finally ate some. She is sleeping on my lap now purring softly now. I hope it is a purr of contentment. I think so. She looks more comfortable than she has been all day.

We just couldn't wait until next Wed. for the prednisolone for her so we cut a 5mg. pill into 1/32 pieces and gave her 1/32. Sounds crazy. Her glucose was 63 at 2:00 (approximate nadir). Now I am confused if our vet prescribed .5mg or .05mg of prednisolone. So if we erred, we erred on the safe side. Kind of having brain fatigue here and it is hard to think. But her prednisolone has to come from the compounding RX because it is such a small dose. Anyway, worst case would be high glucose and I don't think that can hurt as long as we watch her and test her, which we will.

I am sympathetic with all of your ER and vet's seemingly lack of concern or even lack of quality care. I love our vet but I think he has just written Lulu off as just another old cat who is wasting away. He might be right but delaying potential help because of possible negative results could in itself be fatal. But I give him the benefit of the doubt on such a "rare" combination of issues. Even the experts probably don't know how to skirt around the conflicting contraindications but they might be more helpful. See my previous post on our new ER Vet. Clinic. We might just have to go there for quality near emergency tests and advice or go to the Vet clinic at the University. They have been great with complex pet issues in the past.
 
Our old ER was good but had issues. The ER we took Lulu to is a new emerging chain. We have used them in two states and been very pleased compared to our previous ER vet. I don't know if it is allowed to recommend something on here but they actually have tiny rooms where you can spend time with your pet when they are not getting treatment and even stay the night with your pet in fold out beds and the works, not the Ritz but absolutely fantastic compared to leaving a sick fur baby alone. We were allowed to watch all procedures and tests without leaving her side and the results were almost instantaneous. X-ray's were easy and without sedation but we could still watch through the window.
That has to be a VEG hospital. We had one of our younger ones to the brand new local one here a few months ago. We got there around 1 am and as ER experiences go, it was great. I'd been up since 5 am so they took Holly out of the room for most things so I could sleep. Then again, it's not like I don't get to do blood draws and X rays every day and she wasn't critical, so I didn't feel the need to have everything done in the room. But in between the things that needed to be done, she got to hang out with us and chill out. I would absolutely recommend them.
 
Lulu is exhausted today, as are we, she threw up some liquid this morning and is not eating well and dehydrated. Her glucose reading was too low (mid 100's) for 3/4 unit shot last night and the night before or even a token shot. We gave her fluids with the new better syringe method twice already today, gave her an appetite stimulant so she finally ate some. She is sleeping on my lap now purring softly now. I hope it is a purr of contentment. I think so. She looks more comfortable than she has been all day.

We just couldn't wait until next Wed. for the prednisolone for her so we cut a 5mg. pill into 1/32 pieces and gave her 1/32. Sounds crazy. Her glucose was 63 at 2:00 (approximate nadir). Now I am confused if our vet prescribed .5mg or .05mg of prednisolone. So if we erred, we erred on the safe side. Kind of having brain fatigue here and it is hard to think. But her prednisolone has to come from the compounding RX because it is such a small dose. Anyway, worst case would be high glucose and I don't think that can hurt as long as we watch her and test her, which we will.

I am sympathetic with all of your ER and vet's seemingly lack of concern or even lack of quality care. I love our vet but I think he has just written Lulu off as just another old cat who is wasting away. He might be right but delaying potential help because of possible negative results could in itself be fatal. But I give him the benefit of the doubt on such a "rare" combination of issues. Even the experts probably don't know how to skirt around the conflicting contraindications but they might be more helpful. See my previous post on our new ER Vet. Clinic. We might just have to go there for quality near emergency tests and advice or go to the Vet clinic at the University. They have been great with complex pet issues in the past.
I would think they'd want 0.5 mg. 0.05 - honestly you might as well not bother. Have they ordered a liquid formula for you? Depending on how that is compounded, they might want you to give 0.05 ml. But 0.05 ml could be any mg amount depending on the mg/ml of the compound.
 
That has to be a VEG hospital. We had one of our younger ones to the brand new local one here a few months ago. We got there around 1 am and as ER experiences go, it was great. I'd been up since 5 am so they took Holly out of the room for most things so I could sleep. Then again, it's not like I don't get to do blood draws and X rays every day and she wasn't critical, so I didn't feel the need to have everything done in the room. But in between the things that needed to be done, she got to hang out with us and chill out. I would absolutely recommend them.

Yes, it is VEG. We were pleased with the attention, quality of care, equipment, etc. here at home so went to them in Florida too. The private room and sleeping facilities were just frosting on the cake...and we got to go to the sympathy room when I was crying about Caledonia's diagnosis that we did not expect. She has cancer and spondylosis of the spine but is hanging in there along with her mother, Lulu so far. Hopefully the other 3 have a few years left in them.
 
I would think they'd want 0.5 mg. 0.05 - honestly you might as well not bother. Have they ordered a liquid formula for you? Depending on how that is compounded, they might want you to give 0.05 ml. But 0.05 ml could be any mg amount depending on the mg/ml of the compound.

You are right, it is more complex than we knew or know. The Rx has been sent to the compounding pharmacy. We ill check the dosage on Monday to be sure it is right and what the vet intended. Thank you for the information. We will see what her PSGL reading is at 8:00.
 
You are right, it is more complex than we knew or know. The Rx has been sent to the compounding pharmacy. We ill check the dosage on Monday to be sure it is right and what the vet intended. Thank you for the information. We will see what her PSGL reading is at 8:00.
I would have done what you did. waiting until Wednesday would have been impossible for me. That ER sounds amazing. I wish we had one like that in my small town but I’m so blessed to have an amazing vet in this little place that I wouldn’t trade for anything in the world. I wonder the same thing when Methos curls next to me to purr but I also think he happy we’re still fighting the good fight. I hope miss lulu perks up soon
 
I would have done what you did. waiting until Wednesday would have been impossible for me. That ER sounds amazing. I wish we had one like that in my small town but I’m so blessed to have an amazing vet in this little place that I wouldn’t trade for anything in the world. I wonder the same thing when Methos curls next to me to purr but I also think he happy we’re still fighting the good fight. I hope miss lulu perks up soon
I would also have done the same thing. I'm not good at waiting if I know one of our cats isn't feeling their best, especially when they're already fragile.

VEG are definitely expanding. They started only a few years ago in just 2 state (IIRC). Their first WA facility opened either late last year or early this year - it had been in the pipeline for a while according to VEG staff I spoke to in one of the FB vet tech groups I'm in and they're already up to 3 hospitals that are local enough to me to make the drive. And they do seem to be pretty open to requests from the public - maybe you could ask if they're likely to open a hospital near you any time soon. Their website is veterinaryemergencygroup.com At least for now, they're owned by an independent LLC unlike the majority of ERs that are now owned by Mars and were started by a long-time ER vet who wanted to do things a better way for owners, pets and staff.
 
Hi @Lulu's person!


That is exactly what happened - but I did get notified of the PM. Obviously answering in the thread because the board rules don't allow medical advice to be given privately. Thank you for the suggestion.

I do indeed have a cat with both Addison's and DM. Her Addison's is the result of an adrenalectomy for a tumor that was causing Cushing's - her surgery was about 6 years ago now. Her remaining adrenal never recovered sufficient function so she is now reliant on steroids. She did, in fact, have an Addison's crisis which I attribute to the first IM who she saw and who was managing her case pre- and post-surgery. He had seen the warning signs on her weekly blood work, but instead of starting treatment he chose to give it "one more week". When she went into crisis, he then refused to approve starting treatment until he had personally examined her, leaving her hospitalized for 5 days on fluid therapy only and quite obviously actively dying due to lack of any real treatment. We pulled her from there and took her to another ER half a mile away where they saved her life.

According to Roxi's second IM, this combination should not really be possible in cats. His feeling was that because she had already been a long-term diabetic, there was just too much underlying destruction of beta cells in her pancreas for it ever to recover insulin production. With that said, I have not seen the kind of breakdown on an ACTH stim result that you have there so I have no idea if there is high progesterone in her results. According to the information on the results you have, high progesterone could be the cause of raised glucose levels which may not actually be true diabetes. That might at least partially explain the difficulty in finding a dose that adequately manages her glucose at all times.

Roxi started her Addison's journey on both prednisolone and Desoxycorticosterone pivalate (commonly known as DOCP and sold under the brand names of Zycortal and Percorten-V). DOCP is generally preferred over fludrocortisone for dogs and cats and is administered by a sub-q injection every 25-35 days (depending on the pet's individual response). For her, we were gradually able to wean her off the prednisolone - again, her IM specialist was not fully able to explain why she was OK off that one because most cats do need both and atypical Addison's (the condition that only requires one steroid) needs prednisolone but not DOCP. We do keep a small amount of pred on hand for stressful events as we were told she would likely need it if she was under stress. Fortunately, because I work in a clinic, she doesn't suffer huge amounts of stress when she comes to work with me for blood work etc because she can see me the whole time and has got used to the idea that sometimes she will spend the day at work with me.

If Lulu was my cat, given how borderline her glucocorticoid level was post-ACTH and the fact that she was stressed at the time (and therefore likely producing to her maximum capacity), I would ask to try a low dose of pred. Because Addison's tends to cause dehydration due to blood work imbalances, especially in electrolytes, this may be enough to at least partially resolve the dehydration and reduce the amount of fluids you need to give. I would also ask about switching the fludrocortisone for DOCP - it's easier to administer and works better in cats. Fludrocortisone doesn't control sodium levels well in cats, and often leaves the sodium level low compared to DOCP which could very easily be a major cause of her dehydration.

If you have other questions that I haven't answered here, please let me know - when I reply once to a thread, I do then start getting notifications. I had to learn most of what I know as we went along given how rare Addison's is in cats - if what I learned the hard way can be helpful to you, I'm more than happy to share information.
 
Thank you, I thought I replied to you but now I'm not sure. My stress is probably off the charts with worry about her. Learning the board rules and operation as I go. Sorry for any goof ups. I do not know why our vet is being so cautious about the prednisolone but we increased it today to a larger minuscule amount, .2 mg because yesterday .1 did not increase her glucose and she was so low she only got a token shot last nigh. . It has been so low we had to skip PM shots two days before that. He does not want to use DOCP because we need to monitor the dose closely right now and she would not like having to go to the vet for shots. His caution could be because I was rushing him 6 months ago during her initial low glucose crises and he said his unresearched advice based on her charts alone would have probably killed her. DM and Addison's is an anomaly. We are both learning as we go along. I am concerned about her sodium being too low, hence the dehydration, but the blood work is normal, only the Ph/K ratio is off. She acts hungry all of the time and eats but is still losing weight. I am getting desperate. Yesterday I gave her what I though was probably too much quail egg treats but her Glucose still did not got up PM. On 3/4 unit, with no PM shot she begins the day at 250-300, has a nadir around 60 and is under 200 PM. Because of her multiple low glucose episodes we do not shoot under 200. I don't know how we can cut it any lower so just hope the prednisolone helps. Unbelievable after 7+ years on 4 units with no problems. Her weight has gone from 7.8 lbs to 5.0 since Jan. This cannot continue and we are in a panic. I am going to try to find an IM specialist tomorrow. I am glad Roxie is doing so well, that is wonderful. Lulu is 20 so no surgery or even extensive testing can be done. I don't want to make her miserable without hope for long term improvement which she won't have because of her age. The goal is to keep her happy and comfortable as long as we can.
 
Thank you, I thought I replied to you but now I'm not sure. My stress is probably off the charts with worry about her. Learning the board rules and operation as I go. Sorry for any goof ups. I do not know why our vet is being so cautious about the prednisolone but we increased it today to a larger minuscule amount, .2 mg because yesterday .1 did not increase her glucose and she was so low she only got a token shot last nigh. . It has been so low we had to skip PM shots two days before that. He does not want to use DOCP because we need to monitor the dose closely right now and she would not like having to go to the vet for shots. His caution could be because I was rushing him 6 months ago during her initial low glucose crises and he said his unresearched advice based on her charts alone would have probably killed her. DM and Addison's is an anomaly. We are both learning as we go along. I am concerned about her sodium being too low, hence the dehydration, but the blood work is normal, only the Ph/K ratio is off. She acts hungry all of the time and eats but is still losing weight. I am getting desperate. Yesterday I gave her what I though was probably too much quail egg treats but her Glucose still did not got up PM. On 3/4 unit, with no PM shot she begins the day at 250-300, has a nadir around 60 and is under 200 PM. Because of her multiple low glucose episodes we do not shoot under 200. I don't know how we can cut it any lower so just hope the prednisolone helps. Unbelievable after 7+ years on 4 units with no problems. Her weight has gone from 7.8 lbs to 5.0 since Jan. This cannot continue and we are in a panic. I am going to try to find an IM specialist tomorrow. I am glad Roxie is doing so well, that is wonderful. Lulu is 20 so no surgery or even extensive testing can be done. I don't want to make her miserable without hope for long term improvement which she won't have because of her age. The goal is to keep her happy and comfortable as long as we can.
I would definitely try to find an IM specialist. Fludrocortisone, unfortunately, just doesn't work well in cats. so her dose of that wouldn't relate directly to a DOCP dose anyway if you were to switch later on. And you can inject DOCP at home - I know a number of pets (mostly dogs) where the owner gives the injections themselves once a month. I completely understand not wanting too many vet visits or invasive testing. Even at 16, Roxi is now fragile enough that we won't do any additional invasive testing. I'll do blood work because I can draw the blood myself and not stress her out, but anything more than that is not an option for her any more. At 20, I would still do an IM appointment because they might be able to get a big improvement based just on her blood work, but if they wanted surgery/biopsies etc, I would almost certainly be declining those.
 
I also agree with the ultrasound but to check for IBD. My cat Simon was losing weight a couple years ago. All of his bloodwork was normal. My vet referred us to an internal med vet. They did an ultrasound and also a test to see how well he was absorbing nutrients from his food. That turned out to be the issue. We originally started on a prescription hydrolyzed food and it worked. However I eventually switched to a homemade diet using a recipe from a FB group for IBD cats. He has been on that diet for over 2 years and is doing great. Even though he is not diabetic, the recipe is low carb and works for diabetic cats.

We had a Simon too, a feral tiny kitten rescued near death's door. He grew into a huge great boy and lived a long healthy life. I would rather not stress Lulu with any more test if we can help it. Going to the vet is very stressful for her and she has been a lot in the past months. IBD seems possible It seems I could try the food you mentioned, I'm sure our vet would prescribe it. Or we could try the homemade diet. Something is wrong with her losing so much weight and it isn't ketosis or unregulated insulin. I know it could be an unidentified cancer or something that is untreatable but still want to try what we can. I read online that it involves changing the type of proteins and possibly trying B-12 and probiotics. Would you share your diet information with me please? We can try but she is getting so finicky that she wants treats instead of food. I'm glad we found the quail egg treats that are almost pure protein. She loves them and it should not be bad for diabetics.
 
This is the recipe I use https://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/balanced-recipe-for-use-with-raw-or-cooked-proteins.html. I cook my meat first in an Instant Pot with only water and then cool it to grind my meat. Use the cooking water to mix in the supplements. I buy all of them off Amazon. You can also use raw meat instead.

There are also premixed supplements you can mix with the meat instead. Since I am trying to switch all of mine to homemade buying the supplements instead of premix is a better option for me.

Here are links to premixes:

TCFeline https://thetotalcat.com/

EZComplete https://www.foodfurlife.com/#/

Alnutrin. https://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/alnutrin_supplements.html
 
I would definitely try to find an IM specialist. Fludrocortisone, unfortunately, just doesn't work well in cats. so her dose of that wouldn't relate directly to a DOCP dose anyway if you were to switch later on. And you can inject DOCP at home - I know a number of pets (mostly dogs) where the owner gives the injections themselves once a month. I completely understand not wanting too many vet visits or invasive testing. Even at 16, Roxi is now fragile enough that we won't do any additional invasive testing. I'll do blood work because I can draw the blood myself and not stress her out, but anything more than that is not an option for her any more. At 20, I would still do an IM appointment because they might be able to get a big improvement based just on her blood work, but if they wanted surgery/biopsies etc, I would almost certainly be declining those.

Thank you so much for the food information.

Do you have any information that I could give to my vet to support DOCP instead of Fludrocortisone? I'm researching it but I know my vet will not want to make two changes in meds close together.

Her curve went up 100 points overall after the second day of our prednisolone oral experiment so we stopped. The first day looked good on .1 mg but we increase it to .2mg the second day and she is still higher after 2 days off. Waiting; SLGS We should get the Rx transdermal formula tomorrow. I hope it works better.
 
I'm sorry to ask but I'm learning how to navigate the board. I thought I saw a mention of a liver smoothie for IBD, now I can't find it anywherenow. I bought some special duck (new protein) canned food for Lulu to try to gain weight and she would not eat it We started probiotics. She just wants the Quail egg and cranberry treats I found on Amazon. They seem perfect for a DM cat (almost pure protein) and she absolutely loves them.
 
I'm sorry to ask but I'm learning how to navigate the board. I thought I saw a mention of a liver smoothie for IBD, now I can't find it anywherenow. I bought some special duck (new protein) canned food for Lulu to try to gain weight and she would not eat it We started probiotics. She just wants the Quail egg and cranberry treats I found on Amazon. They seem perfect for a DM cat (almost pure protein) and she absolutely loves them.

I think here…I bookmarked it also!

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-liver-shake-for-sick-cats.30432/
 
Do you have any information that I could give to my vet to support DOCP instead of Fludrocortisone? I'm researching it but I know my vet will not want to make two changes in meds close together.
Here's one article that's fairly easy to read. Let me know if you need more https://www.dvm360.com/view/adrenal-disorders-cats-more-you-know

It's pretty much expected that glucose levels will increase in a diabetic cat on pred. Unfortunately, if pred is required for other reasons, sometimes you simply have to give the pred and adjust the insulin dose around it. Transdermal, if it works (it doesn't work for all cats) will unfortunately have exactly the same systemic effect.
 
Here's one article that's fairly easy to read. Let me know if you need more https://www.dvm360.com/view/adrenal-disorders-cats-more-you-know

It's pretty much expected that glucose levels will increase in a diabetic cat on pred. Unfortunately, if pred is required for other reasons, sometimes you simply have to give the pred and adjust the insulin dose around it. Transdermal, if it works (it doesn't work for all cats) will unfortunately have exactly the same systemic effect.

Bless you. Can't wait to try the delicious liver shake for Lulu. If she does not gain some weight soon it will be too late. We expected to have to increase the insulin when adding prednisone but think we had better wait for the Rx. Our trial with cutting up a pill seemed okay until the second day and we want to be able to discuss insulin adjustments with the vet. I suppose it is good news that she had a reaction to the prednisone, her glucose went up so it might indicate it is working and more insulin will help her metabolize her food. It may just be a shot in the dark. Her curve was better today, just 100 pts. higher all around which isn't bad for a cat who tends to go low instead of high all of a sudden. I hope transdermal works for her; it has has been wonderful hyperthyroid treatment for our Oscar for several years.
 
You may want to consider looking into a Vetrinary internal medicine specialist to see if they do telehealth consultation. I’d suggest finding one either Google, closest Vet school, or even asking your vet. If discussing w your vet (if you consider they’d not be offended) explain you know lulu is complicated and rather than push him to do things he may feel uncomfortable about does he think it would be worthwhile for you to make a telehealth appointment for a specialist to review her case and make recommendations for him in providing care. If he is feeling out of his league this offers him some guidance without losing you as a client. and it reassures you if lulu needs more or different meds.

My other cat, Tammuz, was scheduled for I-131 and his initial eval was the week California locked down for Covid. So he was cancelled. As it became apparent we’d be locked down for a long long time, they started doing evals by just reviewing records sent from local vet, talking to pet parent, and telling vet if any other tests required. All of his post treatment fu were the same; since we were locked down longer than most idk if it was due to lockdown or they realized it was easier for cats and them using telehealth. In any case, if you explained to clinic her age, how stressful, how fragile etc I have to hope they’d agree nothing more would be gained by them touching her. It’s her blood work that’s important. If you go this route I’d make sure they see the stim test results you posted earlier because that shows not only the cortisol and aldosterone results but also the two sex hormones I mentioned earlier that were abnormally increased. The specialty clinic who did tammuz’s I-131 charged for the telephone consultation, including the initial and follow ups in the single bill I paid for his treatment.

as methos has become more and more complicated I offered to do this for Methos if she ever felt we were exceeding her comfort level for off label treatments but so far she’s been able to craft something (I think she’s checked a couple of times with an internist she knows when we first did some of his labs because those tests aren’t usually done on cats)
 
You may want to consider looking into a Vetrinary internal medicine specialist to see if they do telehealth consultation. I’d suggest finding one either Google, closest Vet school, or even asking your vet. If discussing w your vet (if you consider they’d not be offended) explain you know lulu is complicated and rather than push him to do things he may feel uncomfortable about does he think it would be worthwhile for you to make a telehealth appointment for a specialist to review her case and make recommendations for him in providing care. If he is feeling out of his league this offers him some guidance without losing you as a client. and it reassures you if lulu needs more or different meds.

My other cat, Tammuz, was scheduled for I-131 and his initial eval was the week California locked down for Covid. So he was cancelled. As it became apparent we’d be locked down for a long long time, they started doing evals by just reviewing records sent from local vet, talking to pet parent, and telling vet if any other tests required. All of his post treatment fu were the same; since we were locked down longer than most idk if it was due to lockdown or they realized it was easier for cats and them using telehealth. In any case, if you explained to clinic her age, how stressful, how fragile etc I have to hope they’d agree nothing more would be gained by them touching her. It’s her blood work that’s important. If you go this route I’d make sure they see the stim test results you posted earlier because that shows not only the cortisol and aldosterone results but also the two sex hormones I mentioned earlier that were abnormally increased. The specialty clinic who did tammuz’s I-131 charged for the telephone consultation, including the initial and follow ups in the single bill I paid for his treatment.

as methos has become more and more complicated I offered to do this for Methos if she ever felt we were exceeding her comfort level for off label treatments but so far she’s been able to craft something (I think she’s checked a couple of times with an internist she knows when we first did some of his labs because those tests aren’t usually done on cats)

I plan to ask my vet to consider a referral to one of the two nearest vet universities as soon as he calls us with her most recent blood panel results. We should get the low dose prednisone Rx today as well. A telehealth consultation would be ideal since she gets terribly stressed going to the vet. I'm sure our vet will call both places for us to see which would be better and if that can be done. Thank you for suggesting it. I was hesitating because I would hate to take her on a 2-3 hour trip without knowing that I will see someone who can help with her conflicting treatments of her rare combination of ailments. We have been to both Universities before with other cats and had wonderful results. I just don't want to stress her anymore at her age. The insulin and subQs are bad enough for her. We just want to make the rest of her life as comfortable as possible while looking for ways to make her more comfortable. Incidentally, we started using syringes for her subQs and it is easier for her. So much so that we are also using it on her 18 year old kitten, Bojo with CKD. She likes it better too. It is a little more difficult for us but takes much less time for the fur babies and they like that a lot. Strange because we have never had a cat object so much to bag administered subQs before.
 
I plan to ask my vet to consider a referral to one of the two nearest vet universities as soon as he calls us with her most recent blood panel results. We should get the low dose prednisone Rx today as well. A telehealth consultation would be ideal since she gets terribly stressed going to the vet. I'm sure our vet will call both places for us to see which would be better and if that can be done. Thank you for suggesting it. I was hesitating because I would hate to take her on a 2-3 hour trip without knowing that I will see someone who can help with her conflicting treatments of her rare combination of ailments. We have been to both Universities before with other cats and had wonderful results. I just don't want to stress her anymore at her age. The insulin and subQs are bad enough for her. We just want to make the rest of her life as comfortable as possible while looking for ways to make her more comfortable. Incidentally, we started using syringes for her subQs and it is easier for her. So much so that we are also using it on her 18 year old kitten, Bojo with CKD. She likes it better too. It is a little more difficult for us but takes much less time for the fur babies and they like that a lot. Strange because we have never had a cat object so much to bag administered subQs before.
If you’ve been seen both places then they probably have a file on you (not lulu but they know you) so hopefully that will make them even more amenable to a telephone consult. There’s no way I’d take methos anywhere either for the same reasons.

I was just taught (sort of, no cat to demo on but I get the idea) how to do the bag IV fluids. Maybe I will ask about how to do the syringe one. Not sure if I could do a syringe version through since it’s only me. Luckily Tammuz is drinking again, not as much as I’d like but enough
 
If you’ve been seen both places then they probably have a file on you (not lulu but they know you) so hopefully that will make them even more amenable to a telephone consult. There’s no way I’d take methos anywhere either for the same reasons.

I was just taught (sort of, no cat to demo on but I get the idea) how to do the bag IV fluids. Maybe I will ask about how to do the syringe one. Not sure if I could do a syringe version through since it’s only me. Luckily Tammuz is drinking again, not as much as I’d like but enough

I would not recommend the syringe method unless the cat is extremely stressed or upset by the bag IV fluids. I don't think I could do it alone. The bag method takes a little bit longer but it is easier to administer for the person doing it. The syringe is good if time is of the essence or the cat does not tolerate the regular bag method. It just happens that two of our cats prefer it even though it take three needle sticks instead of one because it is over sooner. Cats are amazing and unpredictable creatures and a blessing for those of us who have them in our lives.
 
Lulu/ Age 20 / DX 2018/ Prozinc / CareSens N / LC wet Fancy Feast Pate / SLGS since Jan 2024/ hypoglycemia, dehydration & weight loss since Jan 2024 / fludrocortisone for Addison's since Jul 2024

Added above to Signature page. So sorry about your loss of Tyler. I know Lulu and the rest of our feline menagerie 4 other geriatrics are all on borrowed time.

Lulu had no problems on 4 units of Prozinc for over 7 years. All of a sudden in January she had to be given Karo and rushed to the ER for BG of 37. It continued all month with more ER visits until we got the dose down to 3/4 unit and never shooting a reading of under 200. She has been on 3/4 -1 unit since with some fat shots, some skinny shots and some skipped shots because she was too low to shoot. Her curves are good except for the occasional too low to shoot, no DKA and she is as spry as ever. We recently went back to 3/4 unit from 1 because she had too many days of too low to shoot and a nadir of 47 last week (non symptomatic but scary).

We found the Prozinc information in January and I am sure it saved her life. Our biggest concern is her continued dehydration and weight loss. We give her Ringers 2x daily now and weigh her before and after. We feed her lunch after checking her nadir because she is starving all day and we wan



I would not recommend the syringe method unless the cat is extremely stressed or upset by the bag IV fluids. I don't think I could do it alone. The bag method takes a little bit longer but it is easier to administer for the person doing it. The syringe is good if time is of the essence or the cat does not tolerate the regular bag method. It just happens that two of our cats prefer it even though it take three needle sticks instead of one because it is over sooner. Cats are amazing and unpredictable creatures and a blessing for those of us who have them in our lives.
 
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I did a copy and paste of Lulu's latest bloodwork I don't know why the last page is and attachment. Hope you can read it and let me know what you think about it. She started her new Rx for prednisolone. So far so good but no improvement. Thank you all for caring about my sweet Lulu.
 
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No. He called yesterday but we missed the call and he hasn't returned our call yet. The message said the wbc could be inflammation ( it was normal in March) but did not mention the platelets (they were high normal in March). The neutrophils has to do with inflammation, stress or infection too (low normal in March. Monocytes were high in March but normal now. The office is now closed for a wedding until Monday. Grrrrr.
 
No. He called yesterday but we missed the call and he hasn't returned our call yet. The message said the wbc could be inflammation ( it was normal in March) but did not mention the platelets (they were high normal in March). The neutrophils has to do with inflammation, stress or infection too (low normal in March. Monocytes were high in March but normal now. The office is now closed for a wedding until Monday. Grrrrr.
 
In the species that walks upright thrombocytosis (increased platelets) is often reactive (like he said about the wbc, is increased because of something else going on)—often due to an inflammatory process or malignancy. Methos has had an elevated wbc for some time with a reactive pattern—probably from his tumor but since he’s also had very high fPL it could be an inflamed pancreas as well.

In (human) patients I’d be concerned about potential for clots when platelets are that high (idk at what level it’s an issue for cats) so pending a chance to talk with your vet maybe have a high index of suspicion if she behaves in anyway like she’s got a clot.

I hope she starts to improve soon :bighug:
 
If it's not too much of an imposition, could you please start a new thread? We try to cap a thread at 50 posts so it's not so long that people skip over what may be important information.

Thanks.
 
I think the confusion is with where you're posting. If you were going to continue to post on Health (this forum), the thread you started at the beginning of Sept. is now over 80 posts long. The new thread you started on Addison's and diabetes is on the Prozinc forum.
 
I just want to make sure you get the most number of people seeing your thread(s) and possibly helping you with the Addisons and other health issues.
 
Would it be possible for a moderator to help @Lulu's person move the thread to wherever it fits best and close/direct folks from the previous thread or however you keep them pruned to 50-ish replies. I think the tech part is the issue. Thanks so much!
 
I started a new thread for Lulu on the FDMB board. I hope that is what I was supposed to do. If possible I would like to keep this thread for ProZinc problems because of her current low readings again and being too low for her PM shot too often. We are using very strict SLGS, The vet is concerned about the new meds increasing her glucose with effects on her insulin dose. I may need help. Thank you.

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...diabetic-20-year-old-cat.293867/#post-3205317

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lulu-has-diabetes-and-addisons-disease.294276/
 
The vet is concerned about the new meds increasing her glucose with effects on her insulin dose. I may need help. Thank you.
Please do post over on the ProZinc forum if you have specific dosing questions— although now that I say that, I do not believe you have a spreadsheet? We cannot give much in the way of assistance without data to look at because it would not be safe or in Lulu’s best interest at all.
 
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