? STALLING PLZ HELP 7/13 Pudge AMPS 240 + 3 192 +5 180 +6 161 +8 133 +11/12 127 +12 139

kitten68

kitten68

Very Active Member
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...203-pmps-237-3-200-5-152-8-146-10-180.292063/

started 2.5 U last night.

cycles were a bit tough yesterday. things didn't hold ~ but wanted to see how things were/acclimate with new insulin pen.. was hoping they would cause it was some nice blues that night. never know I guess or maybe someone can say :) (know it obviously should be no different pen to pen.. just thinking the other had been opened for almost a month and a half.. eh)

I just couldn't guarantee being in.. why I stalled. wanted to do it a day or two ago.. but had some things I had to be away for. :/ REALLY regret it and REALLY hoping it didn't mess w momentum. mostly I just hate seeing him feel bad.. just expecting the best.

not feeling great yet. also a little nervous to see where it takes us.. but in a good way. just apparently need to get comfortable and be prepared just in case things go too low.. just part of this im telling. :(

3 months today..
 
It looks like there wasn't any reason you needed to switch to a new pen. I hope you didn't throw the last one out. If it was able to get Pudge into greens, it's still good and hasn't lost efficacy.

kitten68 said:
was hoping they would cause it was some nice blues that night. never know I guess or maybe someone can say
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A lot of times, when we first increase the dose, instead of the BG going lower (like we think it should), it can go higher for a cycle or two. We don't know why it happens, but it happens enough that we have a name for it! "New Dose Wonkiness".

Looks like Pudge is at least heading in the right direction so far today so try to relax a little, get out for a walk or do something for you while Pudge is in safe numbers and not likely to drop into dangerously low ones. It's important to take care of YOU too!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
It looks like there wasn't any reason you needed to switch to a new pen. I hope you didn't throw the last one out. If it was able to get Pudge into greens, it's still good and hasn't lost efficacy.


A lot of times, when we first increase the dose, instead of the BG going lower (like we think it should), it can go higher for a cycle or two. We don't know why it happens, but it happens enough that we have a name for it! "New Dose Wonkiness".

Looks like Pudge is at least heading in the right direction so far today so try to relax a little, get out for a walk or do something for you while Pudge is in safe numbers and not likely to drop into dangerously low ones. It's important to take care of YOU too!
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hi!! :)
oh no! it ran out is why.. haha. I tried getting every drop.. and the negative principle just sucked things back in (I think its called..) I was like !!! cause it looked like there was more. then I could see it was empty.. that is great to know tho. :) keep in mind..

mm! last night was kinda like that.. I think.. lemme see. yeah it just stayed... ugh. for us it didn't move much.. good to remember this too, that's right. I just feel bad its taking so long to feel good more consistently.. (got started on Vetsulin first.... :facepalm::rolleyes:... I know some ppl have good success with it, but idk. then the last dose showed good things but then tapered off and wanted to increase sooner but I couldn't) this week has been very busy w some things and its been long and things just feeling heavy.. I should. there's a lot I need to do. but im trying to do it all and its overwhelming rn.. :blackeye: but thanks for saying.. idk I just feel like im failing this week. can't keep up.
 
hm!
well. no shot number on TR is 50, right?.. :bookworm:

only cycle 2 tho of increase to 2.5.. guess will see what PMPS is.. but suppose hes getting it. :woot: wonder what things will look like once depot fills…. :bookworm:

my only thing is hoping i dosed enough on the 2.25 so that the increase isnt too much.. ugh. o_O
 
kitten68 said:
no shot number on TR is 50, right?
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Not necessarily. For newer cats without a lot of data, if the Pre-shot is under 150, you should stall, DON'T feed and re-test in 20-30 minutes to see which way the BG is going. Use that time to ask here for some help. Changing the title to something like "STALLING! NEED HELP!" will usually get somebody's attention and once you have help, you can go back and edit the title line again.

It also depends on how able you are to test (however long may be necessary)
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Not necessarily. For newer cats without a lot of data, if the Pre-shot is under 150, you should stall, DON'T feed and re-test in 20-30 minutes to see which way the BG is going. Use that time to ask here for some help. Changing the title to something like "STALLING! NEED HELP!" will usually get somebody's attention and once you have help, you can go back and edit the title line again.

It also depends on how able you are to test (however long may be necessary)
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im hearing to take advantage of lower numbers.. no shot is under 50.. quite confusing. and its only the second cycle too.. depot hasnt filled yet. :bookworm: thats my thing.. idk. will do that. he was 133 at +8 but thats happened before..

kind of dreading this whole thing. treating lower numbers is a little scary but hearing its the best… intending it goes without a hitch. :blackeye:
 
That 150 "stall point" is just for newer members who don't have a lot of testing data or experience in knowing how your cat reacts to both insulin and food.

As you get more testing done and learn more about how Lantus works on Pudge, that "stall point" starts to come down. Eventually, if you're doing TR, you will want to shoot anything over 50.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
That 150 "stall point" is just for newer members who don't have a lot of testing data or experience in knowing how your cat reacts to both insulin and food.

As you get more testing done and learn more about how Lantus works on Pudge, that "stall point" starts to come down. Eventually, if you're doing TR, you will want to shoot anything over 50.
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what to maybe do tonite if below 150?..
 
You've shot as low as 149 previously, so you have some data on what happens then. If you are worried the PS number, do NOT feed, and post asking for help.
 
He's been pretty flat since +8. When you shoot your lowest yet, always good to get a +1 and a +2. I won't be here though to help if you need it. Take down the 911 now, then if things are going low at +1, ask for help again then.

kitten68 said:
right we have.. even on TR?..
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Once people have the data to do so, on TR they can shoot as low as 50.
 
Can you monitor tonight? If yes and if you have a hypo kit, you can shoot the full dose. Feed some now and keep Pudge a little hungry so you can feed a tsp or two at +1 and +2.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
He's been pretty flat since +8. When you shoot your lowest yet, always good to get a +1 and a +2. I won't be here though to help if you need it. Take down the 911 now, then if things are going low at +1, ask for help again then.


Once people have the data to do so, on TR they can shoot as low as 50.
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omg this is stressful. :( Well. hes going to eat.. depot hasnt filled tho.. ok will do this.
 
hes 139 now. (Been about 25 min since last test..)
Wait another 15-20 and test again? Or is rising?.. (what about variance w this?..)
 
Did you shoot? He has been pretty flat for the last few hours. You've seen how Lantus gives flat cycles when you shoot low.
Some cats react to an increase in the very first cycle while some cat take as long as 10 cycles to show you what they can do. Another ECID thing.
 
….. sigh. i didnt know some of this info; i wasnt sure what to do so just skipped..

i know some are gonna be mad at me about this. :( idk what to tell ya.. i dont have data. i didnt know some of what i do now, now i do.. which happens. i dont know numbers until the right before, right.

i feel confused and lost most of the time w low numbers because i really dont know how to cope w a hypo event. am on my own. anyway.. good to know that reactions can happen first cycle. depot doesnt necessarily matter. good to know now.. im just finding this very difficult to manage. i was fearing this time, because of not knowing how to handle numbers until you know, but am trying not to.. i did do 149.. but 127 freaked me out a little. its apparently what i want.. but im just confused.

is the truth pretty much get used to/know how to treat hypo?

i got nothin.. will see how he does tonite. :(
 
kitten68 said:
i feel confused and lost most of the time w low numbers because i really dont know how to cope w a hypo event. am on my own. anyway.. good to know that reactions can happen first cycle. depot doesnt necessarily matter. good to know now.. im just finding this very difficult to manage. i was fearing this time, because of not knowing how to handle numbers until you know, but am trying not to.. i did do 149.. but 127 freaked me out a little. its apparently what i want.. but im just confused.
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I don’t know if it would be helpful, but have you checked out Kuro’s spreadsheet and what Matt/Nia are doing with her? As they’ve worked their way down on PS numbers, they’ve calculated what 10% below the last lowest shot was… and that becomes their next “safe to shoot” number. Takes some of the guesswork out as you work your way down. :) So for example, if your lowest was 149 then you’d subtract 14 and you could try shooting 135. Then if you shot 140, or 137, or 146, it would drop a bit lower, etc. I believe their current low is 102, so they’ll shoot as low as 92, but it took multiple rounds of lowering the safe to shoot number to get there. Might be something to check out and/or think on.

You’re doing a good job! It’s a lot to take on and learn! :bighug:
 
kitten68 said:
I can do my best too.. my hypo kit tho is lacking. :/ have raw honey?.. that fine???
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honey is OK, also Karo syrup (corn syrup) and even maple pancake syrup but those are all simple sugars and while they'll bring the BG up pretty quickly, they also can wear off very quickly.

It's a good idea to have a few cans of high and medium carb food in the house. Medium is 11-15%, High is 16%+. Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers beef flavor is 20%. What I used to do was use a marker and write the carb percentage on the top of the food so if I was freaking out, at least I didn't have to go through every can in the house trying to find what I wanted. Then I'd pop the top, put it back down and "squeeze" the gravy part into another bowl. The gravy is where most of the carbs are and just a few teaspoons of gravy is usually enough to bring them back above 50 and it tends to hold them up a little longer than the simple sugars do. It also means you can give a few teaspoons of the gravy but IF you need to intervene again, they aren't so full of food that they won't eat.

There's more information on what you need in a "hypo kit" and how to treat a hypo in the Sticky's in the Main Health forum

You're doing great and trust me, it will get better! This is a lot of new things being thrown at you and it's entirely normal to freak out a bit! We all did the same thing when we were new!
 
JL & Cooper said:
I don’t know if it would be helpful, but have you checked out Kuro’s spreadsheet and what Matt/Nia are doing with her? As they’ve worked their way down on PS numbers, they’ve calculated what 10% below the last lowest shot was… and that becomes their next “safe to shoot” number. Takes some of the guesswork out as you work your way down. :) So for example, if your lowest was 149 then you’d subtract 14 and you could try shooting 135. Then if you shot 140, or 137, or 146, it would drop a bit lower, etc. I believe their current low is 102, so they’ll shoot as low as 92, but it took multiple rounds of lowering the safe to shoot number to get there. Might be something to check out and/or think on.

You’re doing a good job! It’s a lot to take on and learn! :bighug:
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this sounds good.. will think on it :)
thanks so much.. overwhelmed lately. :(
 
Angela & Cleo said:
Don't be so hard on yourself. This is a lot especially in the beginning. I'm sure Pudge will recover :bighug::bighug:
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thank u so much.. sigh. :blackeye: appreciate that.
im trying to think now. continue w 2.5 again?.. hes back up mid 200s.. will see when test PS.. ugh.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
honey is OK, also Karo syrup (corn syrup) and even maple pancake syrup but those are all simple sugars and while they'll bring the BG up pretty quickly, they also can wear off very quickly.

It's a good idea to have a few cans of high and medium carb food in the house. Medium is 11-15%, High is 16%+. Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers beef flavor is 20%. What I used to do was use a marker and write the carb percentage on the top of the food so if I was freaking out, at least I didn't have to go through every can in the house trying to find what I wanted. Then I'd pop the top, put it back down and "squeeze" the gravy part into another bowl. The gravy is where most of the carbs are and just a few teaspoons of gravy is usually enough to bring them back above 50 and it tends to hold them up a little longer than the simple sugars do. It also means you can give a few teaspoons of the gravy but IF you need to intervene again, they aren't so full of food that they won't eat.

There's more information on what you need in a "hypo kit" and how to treat a hypo in the Sticky's in the Main Health forum

You're doing great and trust me, it will get better! This is a lot of new things being thrown at you and it's entirely normal to freak out a bit! We all did the same thing when we were new!
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was gonna add the honey to his LC food to make MC/HC food.. (he got sensitivities.. :/) :woot: if have to….. can giving just small amounts here be ok? understand w food as well holds then over too longer in this case..

have looked there.. will do again. vet had me buy Nutri Cal also.. that useful at all?

and thank u so so much…. :bighug: thats nice to hear haha.. Have felt like im messing up half the time. ugh.. hes back up in mid upper 200s.. assuming to try 2.5 again..
 
good morning.
if anyone is willing or can maybe suggest..

back in the mid upper 200s (+10..)
assuming to try 2.5 again.. (?) wish i had gotten a +2 last night just to see where the number would have been w onset.. but did not have the idea to at the time w all the rush and uncertainty.. sigh. have a bit more info finally.. appreciate it.

anyway. thanks a lot.. appreciate u all.

and if someone can lend a word:
since double digits are numbers u work towards apparently.. and not supposed to do certain numbers until u know, what do u do in cases like mine, which is everyones at some point really, when u may not have enough data and are not comfortable shooting a lower than anticipated number on TR? i mean.. this is nowhere. reduce amount? stall? risk/test a hypo event? :(….. what to do, if could plz advise.

or maybe it is somewhere.. plz remind me if can.. thanks..

update: ah.. reading stickie now. so idea is to just stall/seek help? ok..
 
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Bandit's Mom said:
Did you shoot? He has been pretty flat for the last few hours. You've seen how Lantus gives flat cycles when you shoot low.
Some cats react to an increase in the very first cycle while some cat take as long as 10 cycles to show you what they can do. Another ECID thing.
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thanks so much.. kept asking this and no one said much on it yet lol *cries.. thanks for saying. and no ended up not.. trying to decide now for AM. wish had gotten a +2 to see what the number would have been but alas.. did get +3.. went up to 178..
 
kitten68 said:
vet had me buy Nutri Cal also.. that useful at all?
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In the event of a hypo, you could use it, but it's basically a bunch of simple sugars that would bring up the BG but wouldn't hold it up very long. Probably could be used if Pudge dropped really low to get into his bloodstream quickly, but you'd want to follow up with food, which takes a little longer to break down and get into the bloodstream but will also hold him up longer.
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Chris & China (GA) said:
In the event of a hypo, you could use it, but it's basically a bunch of simple sugars that would bring up the BG but wouldn't hold it up very long. Probably could be used if Pudge dropped really low to get into his bloodstream quickly, but you'd want to follow up with food, which takes a little longer to break down and get into the bloodstream but will also hold him up longer.
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right :cat: - meant added w food also.. or could just be used and then fed some food?
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
In the event of a hypo, you could use it, but it's basically a bunch of simple sugars that would bring up the BG but wouldn't hold it up very long. Probably could be used if Pudge dropped really low to get into his bloodstream quickly, but you'd want to follow up with food, which takes a little longer to break down and get into the bloodstream but will also hold him up longer.
View attachment 70552
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OH! when it comes to food.. and raising the BG.. what numbers are to be expected or are good to get from the food?.. am assuming it depends on how low and the type.. but if wanting to raise BGs.. whats a good number for raising? just as long as it goes up and stays there?
 
kitten68 said:
but if wanting to raise BGs.. whats a good number for raising? just as long as it goes up and stays there?
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If he drops below 50, you want to give him a few teaspoons of high carb food and then retest in 20-30 to make sure he's above 50. If he is, you test again in another 30 minutes and if he's still doing OK, test one more time an hour later. So any time you have to intervene with high carb food OR simple sugars, you need to test for the next 2 hours. (30 min + 30 min + 60 min).

If during that 2 hours, he drops below 50 again, that 2 hour clock starts over.

Generally, I always went with the gravy part of a "Gravy Lovers" if China was in the 40's and saved the simple sugars for when she dropped below 40, but that's something you just have to learn about YOUR cat. What works best for Pudge. Keeping good notes in the "remarks" section of your spreadsheet will help because you'll be able to go back and see what worked (or didn't work) the last time.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
If he drops below 50, you want to give him a few teaspoons of high carb food and then retest in 20-30 to make sure he's above 50. If he is, you test again in another 30 minutes and if he's still doing OK, test one more time an hour later. So any time you have to intervene with high carb food OR simple sugars, you need to test for the next 2 hours. (30 min + 30 min + 60 min).

If during that 2 hours, he drops below 50 again, that 2 hour clock starts over.

Generally, I always went with the gravy part of a "Gravy Lovers" if China was in the 40's and saved the simple sugars for when she dropped below 40, but that's something you just have to learn about YOUR cat. What works best for Pudge. Keeping good notes in the "remarks" section of your spreadsheet will help because you'll be able to go back and see what worked (or didn't work) the last time.
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thanks so much!! :bighug: i keep this in mind.. right. :blackeye::cat:
 
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