? 6-7-24 Tyler/ Does Forti Flora really help with diahhrea Most likely Tyler has Stomach Cancer

Hi Diane and Tyler!

I'm just reading this meow and my heart breaks for you. I wish there was something we could do for you and Tyler. In the meantime I'm sending lots of PAWsitive thoughts and prayers your way ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
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Hey @Diane Tyler's Mom, any progress with the S Boulardii?

For Kona, I didn't do it exactly 1/4 a capsule every 2 hours like that blogger suggested, but I did it maybe every 4 hours or so when I gave her snacks. I definitely didn't do it overnight. She ate it just fine mixed with gravy in her food, no issues.

I was also doing the Pro-Protalin at the same time as the Vet recommended, so I was throwing the kitchen sink at her. Probiotics are typically okay to not worry about overdoing it.

I don't come on the forum as much as I'd like to, but I wanted to stop by and check in. I'm thinking about you and Tyler. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

If you want to try the Pro-Protalin as well, let me know. Maybe check with your vet and then I'll ship it to your house in a heartbeat. Just send me a private message and I'll order it now!
 
Jason - Kona's Dad said:
Hey @Diane Tyler's Mom, any progress with the S Boulardii?

For Kona, I didn't do it exactly 1/4 a capsule every 2 hours like that blogger suggested, but I did it maybe every 4 hours or so when I gave her snacks. I definitely didn't do it overnight. She ate it just fine mixed with gravy in her food, no issues.

I was also doing the Pro-Protalin at the same time as the Vet recommended, so I was throwing the kitchen sink at her. Probiotics are typically okay to not worry about overdoing it.

I don't come on the forum as much as I'd like to, but I wanted to stop by and check in. I'm thinking about you and Tyler. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

If you want to try the Pro-Protalin as well, let me know. Maybe check with your vet and then I'll ship it to your house in a heartbeat. Just send me a private message and I'll order it now!
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Hi Jason so far the JarrowsvS Boulardii is doing squat
Started it on Monday
My vet should be calling me in Thurs or Fri.
I'll talk to her about the Pro- Pectalin .
Thanks so much Jason :bighug::bighug:
 
Diane

I’m very sorry to hear about Tyler. If all the information provided here, I would say Wendy has given you the best guidance. I prefer Visbiome over Proviable. The tests for the B vitamins has to be done faster and it goes to Texas A&M and so it’s a bit pricey between the blood draw and the tests so I think Wendy is spot on to try the S. boulardi and see how it works.

I have a friend that was rather in the same boat as you and she gave her cat budesonide and it really helped. That has been probably four years ago and the cat is still doing quite well. She just recently switched her to Smalls partially cooked cat food and has even been able to reduce the budesonide. I have looked at the %calories from carbs and they are really low so it’s a good LC food but the beef has way too much phosphorus in it for a cat that might have CKD so I’d avoid that and the fish.

It’s interesting he’s concentrating his urine but they suspect CKD. Honestly, my two very healthy cats always have a trace of protein in their urine and we’ve run the urine protein:creatinine ratios and they are always normal. My vet thinks it’s because they eat a balanced raw diet. If the protein in his urine is just trace, it might not be too significant but hard to tell without the UPC which is pricey.

I don’t see any values for protein in urine or his USG on his lab SS. There is nothing about his labs that screams CKD to me. I also don’t understand what she means by muscle wasting might mask CKD. I’ve never heard that and my cats who have clearly had CKD and muscle wasting had elevated creatinine and BUN, decreased USG. He’s also not anemic so I don’t know why his gums would be pale and I also don’t understand why she’s having you give him so much fluids. That’s the amount and frequency a cat in Stage III CKD would get.

When you lift his scruff does it stay up or quickly pop back into place?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Diane

I’m very sorry to hear about Tyler. If all the information provided here, I would say Wendy has given you the best guidance. I prefer Visbiome over Proviable. The tests for the B vitamins has to be done faster and it goes to Texas A&M and so it’s a bit pricey between the blood draw and the tests so I think Wendy is spot on to try the S. boulardi and see how it works.

I have a friend that was rather in the same boat as you and she gave her cat budesonide and it really helped. That has been probably four years ago and the cat is still doing quite well. She just recently switched her to Smalls partially cooked cat food and has even been able to reduce the budesonide. I have looked at the %calories from carbs and they are really low so it’s a good LC food but the beef has way too much phosphorus in it for a cat that might have CKD so I’d avoid that and the fish.

It’s interesting he’s concentrating his urine but they suspect CKD. Honestly, my two very healthy cats always have a trace of protein in their urine and we’ve run the urine protein:creatinine ratios and they are always normal. My vet thinks it’s because they eat a balanced raw diet. If the protein in his urine is just trace, it might not be too significant but hard to tell without the UPC which is pricey.

I don’t see any values for protein in urine or his USG on his lab SS. There is nothing about his labs that screams CKD to me. I also don’t understand what she means by muscle wasting might mask CKD. I’ve never heard that and my cats who have clearly had CKD and muscle wasting had elevated creatinine and BUN, decreased USG. He’s also not anemic so I don’t know why his gums would be pale and I also don’t understand why she’s having you give him so much fluids. That’s the amount and frequency a cat in Stage III CKD would get.

When you lift his scruff does it stay up or quickly pop back into place?
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Hi Marje, good to hear from you. I just checked his scruff and it does quickly pop back into place.
His gums feel tacky to me when I touch them .
I have been giving the Jarrows S boulardii with MOS since Monday
He still has diahhrea.
I'm following the Emergency Stop Version that I found on the links I posted on my post #48.
At the Er we weighed 10 lbs 2 ounces that was 5-31
I just weighed him this morning I got 10 lbs
He's still eating really good
Playing
Tail is always up in the air
Peeing good
It's just the diahhrea
I'm going to cut the fluids in half and give 50 mls .
He fights me every time really bad when I put him on the table that sometimes I can't even get the needle in him,so I met him go and try later .
Thank you for your feedback
At this point I'm going to just keep doing what I'm doing because of my financial situation, which I feel terrible about.
As soon as I see him not doing well I know what I have to do which breaks my heart.
After being in remission for 3 years and 4 months and now this is like a punch in the stomach.
Thank you Marje :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
I don’t see any values for protein in urine or his UPC or USG either on the labs
I only see under Urinalysis is
Urine Protein. 30 mg/dl
I put it at the bottom of the labs page and above those tests I put From ER 5-31-24 Urinalysis
Thank you Marje
I never knew
The tests for the B vitamins has to be done faster and it goes to Texas A&M , so when a vet does it ,it has to be sent to Texas A&M ?
They don't check it in house or sent to idexx ,zoetis or antech?
I know nothing about this
@Marje and Gracie
@Wendy&Neko
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Marje, good to hear from you. I just checked his scruff and it does quickly pop back into place.
His gums feel tacky to me when I touch them .
I have been giving the Jarrows S boulardii with MOS since Monday
He still has diahhrea.
I'm following the Emergency Stop Version that I found on the links I posted on my post #48.
At the Er we weighed 10 lbs 2 ounces that was 5-31
I just weighed him this morning I got 10 lbs
He's still eating really good
Playing
Tail is always up in the air
Peeing good
It's just the diahhrea
I'm going to cut the fluids in half and give 50 mls .
He fights me every time really bad when I put him on the table that sometimes I can't even get the needle in him,so I met him go and try later .
Thank you for your feedback
At this point I'm going to just keep doing what I'm doing because of my financial situation, which I feel terrible about.
As soon as I see him not doing well I know what I have to do which breaks my heart.
After being in remission for 3 years and 4 months and now this is like a punch in the stomach.
Thank you Marje :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
I don’t see any values for protein in urine or his UPC or USG either on the labs
I only see under Urinalysis is
Urine Protein. 30 mg/dl
I put it at the bottom of the labs page and above those tests I put From ER 5-31-24 Urinalysis
Thank you Marje
I never knew
The tests for the B vitamins has to be done faster and it goes to Texas A&M , so when a vet does it ,it has to be sent to Texas A&M ?
They don't check it in house or sent to idexx ,zoetis or antech?
I know nothing about this
@Marje and Gracie
@Wendy&Neko
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Without there being a reference range, I don’t know what “urine protein 30” means. This must be in-house. The labs typically report it as either neg, trace, or #+ with the # being 1,2,3 etc.

Yes, the only lab I’m aware of that goes the GI Panel is Texas A&M. They also just do cobalamin and folate which is cheaper. I don’t think you need a test for pancreatitis but it wouldn’t hurt to do one for exocrine pancreatic insufficiency although he likely hasn’t developed that. You could discuss it with your vet.

As Wendy mentioned, the S. boulardi doesn’t work if the cobalamin (B12) is low. Typically, vets give B12 shots (which you can give at home) for cats with intestinal issues, IBD, or not eating well. I hadn’t read that. In fact, this research states:

Cats with gastrointestinal lymphoma and normal serum cobalamin survive longer than those with hypocobalaminemia
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Here is more info supporting that.

It’s certainly up to you in discussions with your vet but I would consider his age, whether you plan to treat any lymphoma (which hasn’t been diagnosed), and how to improve his QOL if you don’t treat the lymphoma even if it meant the lymphoma might progress. I would have to see some fairly recent and exhaustive research to convince me that B12 would be a negative for a cat that might potentially have cancer. JMHO.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Without there being a reference range, I don’t know what “urine protein 30” means. This must be in-house. The labs typically report it as either neg, trace, or #+ with the # being 1,2,3 etc.
Click to expand...
@Marje and Gracie
I want to thank you for all your help
I just found the urine protein said negative on the labs and the USG which said >1.050. I added it to his labs
Plus I added other stuff down toward the bottom
They gave me 2 sets of blood work where I found the urine protein, then gave me another copy and it wasn't on that one
I don't want to keep asking questions , you and Wendy provided me with a lot of information and I thank you.
I'll talk to my vet about everything
Again thank you so much :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Marje and Gracie
I want to thank you for all your help
I just found the urine protein said negative on the labs and the USG which said >1.050. I added it to his labs
Plus I added other stuff down toward the bottom
They gave me 2 sets of blood work where I found the urine protein, then gave me another copy and it wasn't on that one
I don't want to keep asking questions , you and Wendy provided me with a lot of information and I thank you.
I'll talk to my vet about everything
Again thank you so much :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
With a USG of 1.050, and considering his other kidney values, IMHO, I would put CKD lower on the list of concerns. Pls let us know what your vet thinks.
 
I’m late to reading this. How’s Tyler doing? One of my cats recently had diarrhea so awful she lost everything she ate and was losing weight rapidly. The biopsy was inconclusive. I used Jarrod’s emergency method and started Visbiome and it stopped the diarrhea. I had to give her nausea medication and since she was not diabetic she was given prednisolone . My vet has no clue as to what was wrong with her but I was able to taper and stop prednisolone.

Any improvement? I’m hoping the answer is yes! Did you get budesonide? :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
tiffmaxee said:
I’m late to reading this. How’s Tyler doing? One of my cats recently had diarrhea so awful she lost everything she ate and was losing weight rapidly. The biopsy was inconclusive. I used Jarrod’s emergency method and started Visbiome and it stopped the diarrhea. I had to give her nausea medication and since she was not diabetic she was given prednisolone . My vet has no clue as to what was wrong with her but I was able to taper and stop prednisolone.

Any improvement? I’m hoping the answer is yes! Did you get budesonide? :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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@tiffmaxee
Hi Elise no I didn't get anything
Tyler is still doing good, like I said he's eating really good, playing, grooming, using the litter box, his tail is always up in the air lol.
Some days his poops are formed and other days diahhrea.
Bhooma gave me a suggestion about a go fund me for Tyler but I don't want to have to put him through a biopsy to confirm it's scl, that may sound horrible but that's how I feel. Then if I start the chemo from what I have read I would have to take him in for blood work pretty often.
He's 16 years . The other things some members suggested would probably knock him out of remission, then starts the insulin again.
I'm really on a fixed income.
He's still 10 lbs so he hasn't lost any more weight.
So that's my plan.
still giving B-12 and probiotics.
The vet I used to go to left the practice, and the owners moved to Vetco , in Petco
I talked to Dr Sass who was Tyler's vet and sent her the report ,she did say if he's low in B-12 then the probiotics would not help with the diarrhea which I was told here. She said why not just give him the B-12 anyway and the probiotics which I'm doing. The test for the B-12 she told me would be around $300
As long as he hasn't lost any weight and is eating well and using the litter box . he's not dehydrated either so I'll let him be
Thanks for asking Elise :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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I would not do a biopsy but a go fund me might forgive you the money to treat as if he has scl with budesonide and the chemo pill. Wendy was one that treated Neko without a biopsy. It often leads to remission. My lymphoma kitty was on chemo but when an infection trashed her kidneys she was on on,y prednisolone and did pretty well for about a year. She had intermediate cell which is more aggressive than scl which Tyler might very well have given his age. Just a thought. If you don’t want to go that route I totally understand. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
tiffmaxee said:
I would not do a biopsy but a go fund me might forgive you the money to treat as if he has scl with budesonide and the chemo pill. Wendy was one that treated Neko without a biopsy. It often leads to remission. My lymphoma kitty was on chemo but when an infection trashed her kidneys she was on on,y prednisolone and did pretty well for about a year. She had intermediate cell which is more aggressive than scl which Tyler might very well have given his age. Just a thought. If you don’t want to go that route I totally understand. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks Elise, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing, I don't want to have to start him on insulin again if any of the meds knock him out of remission. I may sound like a horrible mom saying that but as long as he's happy and not losing weight and keeps eating I'm going to stay with that
@tiffmaxee :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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tiffmaxee said:
Wendy was one that treated Neko without a biopsy.
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Clarification, I could not do a biopsy with Neko. Biopsy requires anaesthesia and with her heart condition that would have killed her right away. Prednisolone might well have killed her too, hence the budesonide.

Diane Tyler's Mom said:
The other things some members suggested would probably knock him out of remission
Click to expand...
If you are talking about budesonide, it had zero impact on Neko's BG numbers. We've had a number of cats here with GI issues that arrived on pred, switched to budesonide then went into remission. Same on the SCL group Elise and I are on. It can be a treatment for IBD or SCL - you don't need to figure out which you are dealing with. If Tyler was one of the unlucky few that became diabetic again on budesonide, you stop it.

Having said that, the fact that Tyler isn't losing weight is huge!
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Clarification, I could not do a biopsy with Neko. Biopsy requires anaesthesia and with her heart condition that would have killed her right away. Prednisolone might well have killed her too, hence the budesonide.


If you are talking about budesonide, it had zero impact on Neko's BG numbers. We've had a number of cats here with GI issues that arrived on pred, switched to budesonide then went into remission. Same on the SCL group Elise and I are on. It can be a treatment for IBD or SCL - you don't need to figure out which you are dealing with. If Tyler was one of the unlucky few that became diabetic again on budesonide, you stop it.

Having said that, the fact that Tyler isn't losing weight is huge!
Click to expand...
I'll talk this over with my old vet, I just hate she moved far away from me.
But if I hacpve to take him to see her , she's the only one I trust.
I could take him closer to me , saw some good reviews about a vet that's only about 15 minutes from me.
You're right if I see his BG starts to rise I can stop the budesonide.
Thanks for all your help
@Wendy&Neko
@tiffmaxee
:bighug: :bighug::bighug:
 
Just popping in to say I've been thinking about you and Tyler, glad to see the update you gave in comments above. Seems like he is doing ok. Sending hugs, love, and prayers!
 
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