Curve

Pterodactyl

Pterodactyl

Member
I'm supposed to be doing the glucose curve now that Milo has been on prozinc 1u twice daily for over a week. I dont have money for the vet again, so I was hoping someone here could help me with this. I hope my spreadsheet is ok. We are only 2 tests into the curve right now, but I'm seeing high numbers.
 
Uh oh. I can’t see your spreadsheet. You need to give permission to “anyone with the link” to see it.

As for the curve, don’t stress, just test every 2 hours during the cycle. So for the a.m. cycle you would test at AMPS, +2, +4, +6, +8, +10 and then at PMPS.
 
And I am really glad you posted over here on the ProZinc forum. I see you got some good help over on Health, but I can help you more easily over here. Welcome to ProZinc land.
 
He is indeed very high today in his BG. Do you have any other tests from this past week that you can input into your spreadsheet?
 
I don't yet! Testing seems to be a struggle for us. He also likes to hide places so I can't find him when I need to. I'm going to keep trying though! Is this enough info to know he should be getting more than 1u? Sorry I'm still learning and honestly it all kind of freaks me out!
 
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Well no, we can’t know simply from one day. I am sorry. The problem is that we don’t have any other data from previous days. Let’s say that yesterday he had dropped into “low” numbers (which could mean actual low numbers or just numbers that his body perceives as low since he’s not used to being in lower numbers any more) and today he was bouncing into high numbers as a result. Do I think he may need a dose increase? Yes. But we must keep him safe and we need some more information to do that. You need to try to get a test before every insulin injection (to make sure his BG is high enough to give insulin) and get at least one test during each cycle. Hopefully at least for the daytime cycle you can find his nadir (lowest point in the cycle.) Once we know his nadir, we can decide upon increasing or decreasing the dose.
 
Pterodactyl said:
I don't yet! Testing seems to be a struggle for us. He also likes to hide places so I can't find him when I need to. I'm going to keep trying though! Is this enough info to know he should be getting more than 1u? Sorry I'm still learning and honestly it all kind of freaks me out!
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Are you giving him treats when testing or attempting to test? What kind of problems are you having? Just the hiding?
 
Yea the hiding is definitely a problem, I haven't seen him in 6 hours. I give him treats, yes. He just really doesn't like the ear thing. If I even start warming his ear, he knows and wants to fight me. Then of course it takes me 1076 pricks to get it right. He doesn't mind the shots though. I feel like I'm failing him. I've noticed he is getting really weak in his hind legs. Financially I'm struggling to make it at all right now. I've considered finding him a new home, but that would just be too heartbreaking.
 
Wow. That sounds overwhelming. I am so sorry. I think you just need to try once or twice to get blood from his ear and if it doesn’t work then just try again later. Don’t push it just yet. You will get better at it and so will he. They sent you the photo of where you are aiming on the ear and gave you tips over on the health forum, I believe. I cried every time I tried to get an ear test and failed- for a week or more. I finally got one. It took a few weeks for me to get better at it. You aren’t using the lancing device are you? A lot of cats hate the loud sound (right in their ear).

Just try your best to get a preshot test at this point. If you can only get one other test per day (gradually whenever you can) during the cycle then that would be helpful. Try for a +4 one day and a +6 the next day. If we can fill in some gaps like a checkerboard then we can piece together some information on how he’s doing. I don’t know how you managed to get those tests yesterday! No wonder he was hiding. It’s all new for him as well, so let’s give him time to adjust.
 
Sorry it all makes me very emotional! I think I'm going to have to keep him out of the basement to get enough tests done. He likes to go down there and sleep all day, undisturbed, and I generally can't find exactly where he is down there. I will keep you updated and I will keep updating the Spreadsheet! Thank you
 
Pterodactyl said:
Sorry it all makes me very emotional! I think I'm going to have to keep him out of the basement to get enough tests done. He likes to go down there and sleep all day, undisturbed, and I generally can't find exactly where he is down there. I will keep you updated and I will keep updating the Spreadsheet! Thank you
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I understand. He probably doesn’t feel all that great in those high BG numbers. If you can start filling in a little data over the next few days we will probably be able to safely adjust his dose.
 
I just don't think I'm cut out for this. If I even go near his ear he flinches and tries to leave. It makes me feel really bad. I don't think I can get enough tests to do this curve thing, I've not got it in me.
 
But you did a really good job getting those tests on the 13th and 14th. You can do this. Be patient with yourself and try to get a test. Any test. I do understand how badly it makes you feel when they run away. It’s happened to me many times for all kind of things (giving medications, for example.). It’s just the worst feeling. You love them and only want to help them and then they don’t understand and start running away like you were an enemy. I am sure you can get past this but it may just take you longer than we would like. If you can just try to get some tests and fill in a few blanks then we can try. Most importantly to begin with would be the preshot tests. I’m so sorry this is so hard.
 
Yes I will try my best to get a +6. I don't have anything to test ketones with. He was negative for them at the vet a couple weeks ago. Thanks for bearing with me!
 
Pterodactyl said:
I got a 129 just now at +6 but I'm thinking I didn't get enough blood..?
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It’s entirely possible that he did drop to 129. Usually if you don’t have enough blood the meter will give you an error message. Normally, we always advise that, if you get a number you don’t trust, just go ahead and retest. In your case though, it’s just great that you got a test. I think that blue number - the 129 - was Milo’s nadir (or close to it) and that means we don’t want to increase the dose yet. I think he’s dropping into numbers that his body isn’t used to and then bouncing up into higher doses. It’s the body’s protective mechanism.
 
Oh, and sometimes if you only get a small drop of blood, you can kind of gently squeeze the blood from the ear up toward the place where you lanced the ear — to work a little more blood out. We call it milking the ear. Of course, again, that’s probably for future information How did the test go today? Did you give a treat/treats?
 
The test today went about the same. Unfortunately no improvement, but I'll keep trying. He seems so lethargic all the time. He used to go outside every day and he hasn't even tried to go out in a couple weeks now. I feel like I'm making him suffer. He always looks so sad :(
 
Pterodactyl said:
The test today went about the same. Unfortunately no improvement, but I'll keep trying. He seems so lethargic all the time. He used to go outside every day and he hasn't even tried to go out in a couple weeks now. I feel like I'm making him suffer. He always looks so sad :(
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You are not the one making him suffer. The diabetes is making him feel ill and you are getting up to speed on how you can help him feel his best again.
 
And don’t forget to please put your test numbers into his spreadsheet. The blue test (129) from today isn’t on there and I don’t know if there were any others.

It’s not uncommon for cats in high numbers to be very lethargic. Then sometimes cats who are experiencing lower numbers closer to the normal range for a cat (approximately 50-110 or 120) to feel lethargic again until their body gets reaccustomed to those numbers It doesn’t happen with every cat, but I do see it frequently.
 
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Thank you again for taking the time to help us with this. This morning Milo gave me a scare. I'm still not sure what happened but I fed him and walked away, when I came back, Milo was standing very awkwardly like he was going to jump up in the air but was just paused there. I picked him up and he was stiff as a board! I carried him to my bed and he could hardly stand up. Almost like he was drunk. He is extremely wobbly still. I know I should test him but I feel like he is already freaking out I don't want to make it worse. I'm also afraid to give him a shot now. Good lord this is stressful and heartbreaking! And scary!
 
Ok this has gotten way worse! Milo can no longer stand up without falling down! His blood sugar is 410. I'm panicking. His coordination is way messed up. He cant even get up. He still has an appetite but can't hold himself steady enough to eat very well.
 
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Oh my! I can’t believe it. What the heck happened? I don’t understand. This can’t be just from diabetes? What did the vets say? I am sooo upset. Sooo sad. This is the most tragic and heartbreaking news. Oh, I am so sorry for you. Milo was so precious and he is gone. What a loss!
 
I'm still trying to make sense of it all myself. The vet did say she didnt think it was diabetes related, she didn't really know what it was, but she said possibly meningitis. She told me my choices were to send him home with antibiotics and watch him suffer more and have a slim chance he'll ever get any better, or to euthanize. He was so scared and literally couldn't do anything but barely kick his legs. Like a beached whale. I had to carry him to his litterbox this morning. I just didn't want him to hurt but I dont know if I made the right choice I am just in pieces about this I cant even make sense of it yet.
 
Pterodactyl said:
I'm still trying to make sense of it all myself. The vet did say she didnt think it was diabetes related, she didn't really know what it was, but she said possibly meningitis. She told me my choices were to send him home with antibiotics and watch him suffer more and have a slim chance he'll ever get any better, or to euthanize. He was so scared and literally couldn't do anything but barely kick his legs. Like a beached whale. I had to carry him to his litterbox this morning. I just didn't want him to hurt but I dont know if I made the right choice I am just in pieces about this I cant even make sense of it yet.
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This is just the worst thing. I understand how you feel.. especially not knowing. I know… I can tell that you chose to try to end Milo’s suffering so he could be at peace— even though it ripped your heart out to make that choice. It was a choice of love. I am more saddened than I can express that it ended this way. It’s just not right. That’s a very feeble way of saying it, but I feel it’s so wrong that things happened this way- and happened so suddenly like that.
 
I just wanted him to go with me having no regrets and I have so many. I'm am just unspeakably devastated by it all. I'm not sure how I'll make it through this, I feel physical pain from the heartbreak my poor sweet boy I'm so so sorry!
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I have been thinking a lot about you and Milo. Sending you love. I am totally confused by what happened. I wish you had answers.
 
The vet said she thought it seemed like meningitis. It never came to me to tell her that my moms dog bit him on the head months prior. I thought it had healed up. Now that I'm not in a panic, it all makes sense. He was suffering all that time and I thought it was just diabetes and that I was helping him. The sad truth is he was in so much pain and I has no idea. Had I got antibiotics when it happened, he would still be here. I will never live this down, it will haunt me forever. My pain is beyond words.
 
You knew something was wrong. Just last Sunday and before) you said that he just looked so sad. We all thought it must be the diabetes because it does happen that they are lethargic. I am so sad. You only know what you know at the time. We can’t do anything differently unless we know what is going on and why. Do you know that the dog bite could have caused meningitis? What happened after he was bitten? Was he diabetic at the time?
 
Yes I'm pretty sure it was the bite. I didn't think of it when she asked if he had been injured because it appeared to be healed and it had been so long ago. Yes, he was diabetic at the time, though I hadn't started him on insulin yet. After he was bitten, his whole face swelled up really bad, but that gradually went away and appeared to all be ok. The puncture healed over and his swelling went away. I thought it was ok but underneath the surface it was reeking havoc. I will never forgive myself. I don't know why they didn't notice it when he had his bloodwork done several weeks ago?
 
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So he didn’t have antibiotics when he was bitten? But he healed up. I am also surprised that the vets didn’t notice something amiss when he was there not long ago. I am so so sorry. I really feel for you because I understand all the pain and guilty feelings that you are going through. I have been through it.
 
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