????!!! EXTREME UNEXPECTED HIGH BG???!!

[CORKY]

Could someone please explain to me this terrible high increase in Corky's BG, when it has been so great as far, I hope I'm not told to raise the dose, because as it is with 1.25u by the +10 starts decline way too fast, He has had his low Car on the AMPS and small at +7 Very frustrated lot of dissolution
I am very restless, concerned.

 

[Basic's Mom]

Could someone please explain to me this terrible high increase in Corky's BG, when it has been so great as far, I hope I'm not told to raise the dose, because as it is with 1.25u by the +10 starts decline way too fast, He has had his low Car on the AMPS and small at +7 Very frustrated lot of dissolution
I am very restless, concerned.

Hi, Maria. You may want to set an alarm to get some of the later PM numbers until you have his optimum dose. Looks like he is bouncing. Getting those later PM numbers could show you how low he truly is going. If you want me to attach some links that helped me understand bouncing I can. Looks like his +5 number caused the bounce. You aren't doing anything wrong, bounces happen though.

If you are following the SLGS method, you follow those instructions for increasing or decreasing. I can attach that link if you would like.

 

[CORKY]

Hi, Maria. You may want to set an alarm to get some of the later PM numbers until you have his optimum dose. Looks like he is bouncing. Getting those later PM numbers could show you how low he truly is going. If you want me to attach some links that helped me understand bouncing I can. Looks like his +5 number caused the bounce. You aren't doing anything wrong, bounces happen though.

If you are following the SLGS method, you follow those instructions for increasing or decreasing. I can attach that link if you would like.

please do send me all you can. So, you are telling me that tonight number are going to be lower than his usual after 10PM testings? OMG!! no sleep tonight, so, if I understand as fast as the BG went up is how fast is going to drop?

 

[Basic's Mom]

please do send me all you can. So, you are telling me that tonight number are going to be lower than his usual after 10PM testings? OMG!! no sleep tonight, so, if I understand as fast as the BG went up is how fast is going to drop?

No, I'm not saying that. I can't predict that. What I am saying is there are a lot of blanks as the evening goes on, and it is possible he is getting lower than you have caught. His lows help you determine his dose, not highs.

And you can sleep. I suggested setting an alarm each evening to get a few of those numbers. If you look at the numbers you do have in the PM, they are decreasing as time passes. It is possible, he has gotten lower and you haven't caught it. Like a fill in the blanks, if that makes sense.

Here is the extremely informative breakdowns on bouncing. Read the threads in their entirety. The latter in particular.

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/chronic-somogyi-rebound-myths-and-facts.281026/

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...s-371-2-439-4-416-6-427-9-418-pmps-380.78047/

 

[CORKY]

No, I'm not saying that. I can't predict that. What I am saying is there are a lot of blanks as the evening goes on, and it is possible he is getting lower than you have caught. His lows help you determine his dose, not highs.

And you can sleep. I suggested setting an alarm each evening to get a few of those numbers. If you look at the numbers you do have in the PM, they are decreasing as time passes. It is possible, he has gotten lower and you haven't caught it. Like a fill in the blanks, if that makes sense.

Here is the extremely informative breakdowns on curves. Read the threads in their entirety. The latter in particular.

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/chronic-somogyi-rebound-myths-and-facts.281026/

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...s-371-2-439-4-416-6-427-9-418-pmps-380.78047/

but I always test every 2 hours, am I to test all night every hour, I'll do it if necessary

 

[Basic's Mom]

but I always test every 2 hours, am I to test all night every hour, I'll do it if necessary

You can still test every 2 hours while you are awake.

Look at his PM results after +5. If I were you, I would start filling in some of those blanks. Not all of them, all night long. Get one +9 and then the following night get a +10, etc. You aren't doing anything wrong. Those numbers could give you a clue as to how low he is getting at night. That is what his dose is based off of. His lows, not highs.

The bounce information could also help you understand what he's doing. Looks like he clears his bounces quickly.

 

[CORKY]

You can still test every 2 hours while you are awake.

Look at his PM results after +5. If I were you, I would start filling in some of those blanks. Not all of them, all night long. Get one +9 and then the following night get a +10, etc. You aren't doing anything wrong. Those numbers could give you a clue as to how low he is getting at night. That is what his dose is based off of. His lows, not highs.

The bounce information could also help you understand what he's doing. Looks like he clears his bounces quickly.

Indeed he did, he is a very healthy cat outside of the diabetes, and when he's so low after 10:00PM where is his last test, I continue 203 more test will not go to sleep until I and myself, fel safe, we go to sleep at 10:00PM (or testing) except when numbers are way too scary for me to sleep. The articles, I read them, to me they have a lot of controversy, but off course, I do know about the bounce, is just that he caught me off guard, such high numbers and after all this time, he is already stabilizing by 10PM he'll be ok. thank you for everything , your a DOLL

 

[Basic's Mom]

You are welcome.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Feed him a snack now at +2 please. Low carb. You probably already did.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I’m not completely convinced that this is bouncing, per se, but it may be what I sometimes call a mini-bounce. It doesn’t last very long, which is good. As long as he keeps going down from there high pink amps during the cycles, then try not to worry. Let’s see if he will settle down over the next few days.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Are you feeding him after his nadir? A lot of these cycles look like there’s what we call “loss of duration” and that can ne caused by feeding much food after the lowest point in the cat’s cycle. For Corky, that is usually anywhere between +4 and +6. Usually he nadirs before +6 but sometimes he nadirs at +6 (which means six hours after his shot.). So I would not advise feeding him after +6. No more small meals, but it is okay to give a small piece or two or a treat that you should always give after each BG test. What do you give for testing treats?

 

[CORKY]

Are you feeding him after his nadir? A lot of these cycles look like there’s what we call “loss of duration” and that can ne caused by feeding much food after the lowest point in the cat’s cycle. For Corky, that is usually anywhere between +4 and +6. Usually he nadirs before +6 but sometimes he nadirs at +6 (which means six hours after his shot.). So I would not advise feeding him after +6. No more small meals, but it is okay to give a small piece or two or a treat that you should always give after each BG test. What do you give for testing treats?

you are most likely correct, I have not given him any actual treats since I stopped the Temptation treats, when at the beginning I was told to stop, so at 10PM, I give both cats 1/2 a can of the fancy feast, (I bought the Purely Fancy East Natural hand-Flaked tuna treats), I have been given him, 2 small meals like that, at 1PM (+7 ) and after the PMPS (+4) so you feel I should not give him these, and instead a treat? if so what other treat can I buy that does not have HC and not too expensive

I do have Fancy Feast dry farm raised turkey and salmon food, can that be used as a treat?

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

you are most likely correct, I have not given him any actual treats since I stopped the Temptation treats, when at the beginning I was told to stop, so at 10PM, I give both cats 1/2 a can of the fancy feast, (I bought the Purely Fancy East Natural hand-Flaked tuna treats), I have been given him, 2 small meals like that, at 1PM (+7 ) and after the PMPS (+4) so you feel I should not give him these, and instead a treat? if so what other treat can I buy that does not have HC and not too expensive

I do have Fancy Feast dry farm raised turkey and salmon food, can that be used as a treat?

The Purely Fancy Feast Hand Flaked Tuna are fine to use as treats since they are 100 percent tuna and that will be low carb.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I have been given him, 2 small meals like that, at 1PM (+7 ) and after the PMPS (+4) so you feel I should not give him these, and instead a treat?

You need to move the 1 o’clock p.m. snack up earlier. +7 is too late to feed Corky anything EXCEPT the Purely FF tuna treats when you test his BG.

To answer this question specifically, I would recommend feeding Corky as follows:
6 a.m. & 6 p.m. main meal of the day with insulin shot.
8 a.m. & 8 p.m. (+2) 1/8 to 1/4 can Fancy Feast (amount depends upon how much Corky needs to eat each day.)
10 a.m. & 10 p.m. (+4) another small meal of 1/8 to 1/4 of Fancy Feast.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Let me know if that message above makes sense to you? This would be a daily feeding schedule that can be followed most days. Exceptions would be if his BG drops too quickly (like 100 points in a SINGLE hour, for example) or if he drops too low, which I haven’t seen on his spreadsheet on this dose. Also, if you have to go out at +2 or +4, you can feed the snacks a little early (or use a timed feeder to dispense the small meals.). My main point is to feed him earlier in the cycle when the insulin is at its strongest. Feeding after about +5 in Corky’s case looks to be a bad idea for him based on the spreadsheet data that we have now.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Now, finally, I just looked at his spreadsheet and am pleased to see the green on there. Makes me happy. He is a little bit higher today but not bad as he hit blue. You are doing well, and I am proud of you for shooting the 1.25 dose.

 

[Basic's Mom]

Are you feeding him after his nadir? A lot of these cycles look like there’s what we call “loss of duration” and that can ne caused by feeding much food after the lowest point in the cat’s cycle. For Corky, that is usually anywhere between +4 and +6. Usually he nadirs before +6 but sometimes he nadirs at +6 (which means six hours after his shot.). So I would not advise feeding him after +6. No more small meals, but it is okay to give a small piece or two or a treat that you should always give after each BG test. What do you give for testing treats?

I didn't know not to give food after +6. Basic's nadirs are typically between +4-+6. I always feed him every 6 hours.

You need to move the 1 o’clock p.m. snack up earlier. +7 is too late to feed Corky anything EXCEPT the Purely FF tuna treats when you test his BG.

To answer this question specifically, I would recommend feeding Corky as follows:
6 a.m. & 6 p.m. main meal of the day with insulin shot.
8 a.m. & 8 p.m. (+2) 1/8 to 1/4 can Fancy Feast (amount depends upon how much Corky needs to eat each day.)
10 a.m. & 10 p.m. (+4) another small meal of 1/8 to 1/4 of Fancy Feast.

Thank you so much for explaining this the way you did. I had a post started because I wanted to ask you questions about this, but didn't want to hijack Corky's post. I don't need to ask you anything now because you broke down everything. So, thank you. I've been feeding Base too late in his cycle. I'm hopeful the new time changes will help his BG.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I didn't know not to give food after +6. Basic's nadirs are typically between +4-+6. I always feed him every 6 hours.

Thank you so much for explaining this the way you did. I had a post started because I wanted to ask you questions about this, but didn't want to hijack Corky's post. I don't need to ask you anything now because you broke down everything. So, thank you. I've been feeding Base too late in his cycle. I'm hopeful the new time changes will help his BG.

I’m so glad! Feeding after nadir can definitely shorten the duration of the insulin and cause numbers to rise more quickly than they otherwise would. Also helps to stabilize BG in general and helps to prevent steep drops in those cats who tend to dive, which doesn’t tend to be as much of a problem with Lantus or the other depot insulins, but I definitely have seen it and have had to help people who have diving kitties on Lantus.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

I didn't know not to give food after +6. Basic's nadirs are typically between +4-+6. I always feed him every 6 hours.

Thank you so much for explaining this the way you did. I had a post started because I wanted to ask you questions about this, but didn't want to hijack Corky's post. I don't need to ask you anything now because you broke down everything. So, thank you. I've been feeding Base too late in his cycle. I'm hopeful the new time changes will help his BG.

It looks like Basic is a bit of a bouncy kitty isn’t he? You are doing an amazing job of testing, Sybil. Also, I see he’s having a flat yellow cycle today which may mean an “active cycle” tonight, so keep an eye on him tonight.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Message for Sybil regarding Basic: it looks like you have held this dose long enough for SLGS and you have wiggle room to do a .25 increase because he is having blue nadirs (and higher blue nadirs at that.)

I do not think it was necessarily a bad day to do a curve — how can you predict that he would be in flat yellows. All data is good data.

I would go ahead with the food transition that you would like to do; I would not wait until January 8. It will be good to see if basic has good normal Bloodwork on January 8. His last labs were when he was sick and had high liver values so I would expect the new labs to be much better if he seems to be feeling better and eating well. My cat had DKA and hepatic lipidosis as well. I noticed Basic had hepatic lipidosis. We had a feeding tube as well. It saved his life.

My cats will get diarrhea with the dry Dr. Elsey’s chicken if I give them much of it or too often. I always assumed it’s because they aren’t used to much kibble. I don’t currently have any diabetic cats, but I feed LC (mostly Weruva BFF pate lovers) wet food because of the low phosphorus which is easy on the kidneys as well as being LC.

Sorry, Maria. I meant to find this and put it on Sybil’s thread over on the other forum!
I will reply over there if there’s more. Sybil, you can tag me on your thread, too.

 

[Snickers and Chrissy]

You need to move the 1 o’clock p.m. snack up earlier. +7 is too late to feed Corky anything EXCEPT the Purely FF tuna treats when you test his BG.

To answer this question specifically, I would recommend feeding Corky as follows:
6 a.m. & 6 p.m. main meal of the day with insulin shot.
8 a.m. & 8 p.m. (+2) 1/8 to 1/4 can Fancy Feast (amount depends upon how much Corky needs to eat each day.)
10 a.m. & 10 p.m. (+4) another small meal of 1/8 to 1/4 of Fancy Feast.

I didn't know about loss of duration. This is new and interesting news to me. Thanks for mentioning all this. I'm wondering if I should be following a similar schedule with Snickers, but I also don't want to hijack Corky's thread.

 

[CORKY]

You need to move the 1 o’clock p.m. snack up earlier. +7 is too late to feed Corky anything EXCEPT the Purely FF tuna treats when you test his BG.

To answer this question specifically, I would recommend feeding Corky as follows:
6 a.m. & 6 p.m. main meal of the day with insulin shot.
8 a.m. & 8 p.m. (+2) 1/8 to 1/4 can Fancy Feast (amount depends upon how much Corky needs to eat each day.)
10 a.m. & 10 p.m. (+4) another small meal of 1/8 to 1/4 of Fancy Feast.

perfect, I set my alarms for those feeding hours until I get use to the times, so basically I will be omitting the 12:00 +6 ? he will be 8 hours without food?

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

perfect, I set my alarms for those feeding hours until I get use to the times, so basically I will be omitting the 12:00 +6 ? he will be 8 hours without food?

No don’t let him go 8 hours without food. Feed him at +5 or just before you leave the house (so around +5.5). Either one is perfectly fine. If you went back and read the old December thread you will see that +5 is fine, depending on your schedule. Remember, the main point is to not feed meals after his usual nadir time. So it’s not hard and fast “feed at 8 a.m. and 10 a.m. and 12:00 a.m. or else!!) If one day he eats at 7:30 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. that’s perfectly fine, too.). But cats are creatures of habit and so are we. So it probably will help to keep to the schedule unless you are not going to be at home (like today.) so DON’T STRESS over it, but just get the idea of feeding the last main snack of the cycle before his typical nadir time. Okay?

 

[CORKY]

No don’t let him go 8 hours without food. Feed him at +5 or just before you leave the house (so around +5.5). Either one is perfectly fine. If you went back and read the old December thread you will see that +5 is fine, depending on your schedule. Remember, the main point is to not feed meals after his usual nadir time. So it’s not hard and fast “feed at 8 a.m. and 10 a.m. and 12:00 a.m. or else!!) If one day he eats at 7:30 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. that’s perfectly fine, too.). But cats are creatures of habit and so are we. So it probably will help to keep to the schedule unless you are not going to be at home (like today.) so DON’T STRESS over it, but just get the idea of feeding the last main snack of the cycle before his typical nadir time. Okay?

Great think I got it, thanks
P.S> How would you like me to Title my next Thread??

 

[CORKY]

No don’t let him go 8 hours without food. Feed him at +5 or just before you leave the house (so around +5.5). Either one is perfectly fine. If you went back and read the old December thread you will see that +5 is fine, depending on your schedule. Remember, the main point is to not feed meals after his usual nadir time. So it’s not hard and fast “feed at 8 a.m. and 10 a.m. and 12:00 a.m. or else!!) If one day he eats at 7:30 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. that’s perfectly fine, too.). But cats are creatures of habit and so are we. So it probably will help to keep to the schedule unless you are not going to be at home (like today.) so DON’T STRESS over it, but just get the idea of feeding the last main snack of the cycle before his typical nadir time. Okay?

I think Corky and Coco have a plan to kill me!! I place only tsps. of food in their [plate and they stand in front of me like saying, This is it? I don't think so!, they licked the bowl to the core