4/10 | Lord Fuzzy Bottom |PMPS 126

Min and Lord Fuzzy Bottom

Min and Lord Fuzzy Bottom

Member Since 2024
Yesterday's Condo: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-9-2024-lord-fuzzy-bottom-6-50.288589/#post-3168643

Morning,
Ok his numbers are back up- as expected. Could be because he was eating the dry kibble the vet sent home with us, Science Diet Adult Cat (yes, I am aware it is very high in carbs), or could be because he didn't get insulin last night, I did check him at about 7.5 hours after the vet had last checked him. Their reading at 4pm was 143. My readings at 11:29pm was 371 with ReliOn and 389 with AlphaTrak2.

Another user on the boards sent me their old AlphaTrak2 glucose monitor so I'm taking readings for both. Fuzzy's bg this morning for the ReliOn was HI- so over 600. The AT2 was 701. (I am considering setting up a second spreadsheet for the AT2 using the other template so everything will be better. But the vet doesn't want to listen to me really pertaining to numbers with a human monitor. They said I will get skewed numbers with human monitor- so I figure doing both with 1 stick is best idea)

He is eating real well (he loves the science diet). He did drink the juice from 1/4 can of fancy feast.

Just need to make it through today and he has his curve tomorrow. I want note though that this entire time since he's been diagnosed, yesterday and this morning is the first times I've seen him acting more like himself. More playful and such. My son did tell me that late in the night Fuz came to him in the kitchen meowing up a storm and he is wondering if perhaps he was telling him that his bg was spiking. It seems like the same thing he has done to me before his numbers go into the black or when they are in the black.

I actually asked the vet if I could SEE the amount of insulin he is getting. They thought I was weird, but I wanted to know. So they got an insulin syringe and filled it with 4 units of water or sterile solution and dribbled it into my palm. It was a DROPLET!!! I've seen droplets that size land on the coffee table after his injections! The vet said that apparently the pen accounts for that. I don't know, I haven't been having that issue any more since I am doing a count of at least to 5 after his pen hits 0.

I think my next plan of action is get through the curve tomorrow, then start trying to procure a set of good calipers and some insulin needles that have been tested with the calipers so I can make sure everything is correct.
 
Just out of curiosity (and I can't seem to find a definitive answer online),
When does a cat no longer have DKA?
Is it when there are no longer ketones showing up? Is it something the vet has to decide? Is it certain bg numbers?
 
Hi, I love your cat's name! Just a suggestion, put a ? in the title and add "DKA question" to your title so the admins/more experienced members can offer some advice. For my Jack, his ketones go up with higher BG numbers. I don't know much about the DKA other than that. I really hope Fuzzy's numbers come down soon :bighug:
 
Min and Lord Fuzzy Bottom said:
When does a cat no longer have DKA?
Click to expand...
DKA shows in blood work, with his electrolytes being out. However, he can still be in danger of DKA for a long time yet. We've seen far too many kitties get DKA, then go back into it if cat stops eating, too little insulin is given, or an infection/inflammation rears up. Which is why your idea of going back down to 1 unit (as you mentioned yesterday), is not a good idea. Doing those "resets" have led to other kitties going DKA again. Having said that, I'm really happy to see you tested ketones today and they are negative. :)

Min and Lord Fuzzy Bottom said:
he has his curve tomorrow.
Click to expand...
The numbers won't be worth making any dose decisions on, because as you guessed, the depot has been depleted by last night's skip. 4 units is currently too much insulin as his numbers yesterday told you. The spot checks you have done give a better idea how the dose is doing than the curve likely will tomorrow.

Syringes are actually very easy to use. You might want to get some now and practice with them. You can fill a syringe with water and try injecting an orange. Calipers are nice, but optional. A lot of people don't use calipers. My cat was sensitive to really tiny changes, so I did use them when she got to smaller doses. It also helped because then I knew hubby and I were injecting the same amount of insulin when it was his turn.

Have you ever tried LFB with the Dr. Elseys' Clean Protein dry (low carb) or Young Again (also low carb)?
 
Ok, I just did Fuzzy's +6 numbers and they are going down! The ReliOn monitor was 292 and the Alpha Trak2 was 327.
I also ordered a blood ketone monitor that should be here tomorrow. I had read that the ketones can still be present but not showing up in urine, so I would like to be 100% sure. I don't know how his numbers are going down if he missed a dose yesterday, but I am thankful they are. And he is eating that high carb stuff from the vet's office. The stuff they gave me isn't for diabetics or anything. I just seriously do not understand how his numbers are going down after hitting over 600. The past times it would take a few rounds before I would see numbers below 600. This has been only 1 round.

I will ask tomorrow if he is still in DKA. How does one go about getting syringes? Do you just go to the pharmacy and ask for them or do you need a prescription when getting from a pharmacy? I figured you would need a prescrip so they don't think you are off doing heroin or something. And when I've asked for a syringe before-years ago for glass painting- they would only give me one without a needle.

I haven't tried those foods yet. It may take me a little bit to get to trying them. I am learning very quickly those foods don't have small 'sample' bags that are cheap. You have to put down 50.00+ on a bag and hope your baby eats it. I will look into them though.
 
Min and Lord Fuzzy Bottom said:
How does one go about getting syringes? Do you just go to the pharmacy and ask for them or do you need a prescription when getting from a pharmacy?
Click to expand...
Depends where you live. Your vet can give you a prescription.

Min and Lord Fuzzy Bottom said:
I just seriously do not understand how his numbers are going down after hitting over 600.
Click to expand...
The answer is the insulin depot, plus you can sometimes see a little action the cycle or two after a skipped shot.

I thought I heard you can get a sample of Young Again. Some places let you return a bag for full price if kitty doesn't like it. Ask before you buy.
 
Ok, so his PMPS is 126 with the ReliOn and 154 with the Alpha Trak2. So, we are skipping tonight's dose. He is eating the 'hospital food' kibble (science diet adult cat). I don't know what to think. Like, shouldn't his numbers be higher right now? He skipped yesteerday's pm dose and only had the 4 units this morning and his bg was above 600 this morning. I'm seriously confused what is going on.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
The answer is the insulin depot, plus you can sometimes see a little action the cycle or two after a skipped shot.
Click to expand...
I just seen your post. Maybe the insulin depot is what is controlling his numbers currently.

Edit: also, I went ahead and ordered a small bag of one of those types of catfood. It was pretty reasonable and I was able to get it on amazon.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
FYI - having to skip all the time is another sign the dose is too high. Much better to shoot a lower dose all the time so you don't have to skip. Especially with recent DKA.
Click to expand...
Agree wholeheartedly.

The 50 the other day also indicated that a dose reduction was warranted.

@Min and Lord Fuzzy Bottom Are you still planning to take Fuzzy in to the vet for a curve tomorrow? With two skipped shots recently (including tonight), it’s not going to give an accurate representation of the 4u dose (and it’s already pretty clear that the 4u dose is too high). I’m actually surprised they didn’t advise a dose reduction the other day when you took him in after getting the 50…
 
I am going to take him in. I am going to suggest a dose reduction myself. I think there was user error in the beginning and I think the vet attempted to over correct by upping the dose and it wasn't needed. I could be wrong. I don't know. Currently Fuzz's bg is 206 with the ReliOn and 279 with the Alpha Trak2.

I am a bit anxious about tomorrow's visit because the vet told me not to check his bg every 6 hours. Only do it before his shots. But the way I see it is I can monitor how things are going and plus me checking it is getting us more on schedule for when things are leveled out. I don't want to be scolded or them thinking I am abusing him. I have stopped using the paw pad and am strictly checking the ear. Yes, I am using 2 monitors, but it is one stick and I 'load' the ReliOn first because it needs a larger droplet than the Alpha Trak2. The numbers don't line up so I don't know which one to really follow so I was going to take the Alpha Trak in tomorrow and have them match it against their monitor so I can verify it. I dunno. I startled myself awake at 11pm tonight thinking I had overslept and forgotten to give him his insulin. Basically my brain thought it was already 5am.

But yea, I am going to bring up that it is supposed to be a depot insulin and skipping doses isn't good and I don't think they are getting a true reading and wouldn't it be better to maybe try 2u- 2x a day instead of 4u potentially 1x a day. And then make adjustments as needed going by how he reacts. But I think there was user error in the beginning. After I WATCHED the tech do it exactly, I've been fairly consistent and not having leaking or droplets coming out. Which with as small amount of insulin as he is getting the amounts I would see would almost be equal to the entire amount he would be getting. Plus, I am capable of doing a curve myself and will for my own records. I think having that would allow me to speak with the vet and have backup to stand my case. I want to see what happens tomorrow and let them see. Surely if he spikes over night again and they see this and then see his slow decline through the day and then incline in the eve- they will be like 'ok he needs his dose adjusted'. Or if this is still the depot acting, which tomorrow AM dose will be the 4th dose including the first skipped one. It might still be the depot acting and I intend on mentioning it. I am going to type up my thoughts and questions and print it out for the vet to see and respond to.
 
Don't be afraid of the vet's response about testing. Lord Fuzzy Bottom is your cat. I'm sure if the vet had a young diabetic child he'd be testing more often too. As you've seen, the preshot tests don't give nearly enough of an idea on how the dose is doing. Plenty of times I've seen cats dive from high preshots down to earn a reduction and zoom back up again at the end of the cycle. Once such cat, named Neko, earned her first reduction I think it was around 470 she started the cycle.

Testing is not abusing your cat, it is loving him and keeping him safe. Pretty soon LFB will get the connection. Cats generally learn that treat are coming when you get out the test kit. Neko used to purr through her tests.

I totally agree you should be doing the curves at home. Besides saving you tons of money, it'll be more representative of the numbers he'll get at home where he lives. I had a non diabetic cat who was so stressed at the vet he tested around 230. And 53 at home the next day. :D It was an unfamiliar ER vet, who called me with blood work results the next day saying I might have a diabetic cat. Umm, no! Lots of cats test higher at the vet, and you don't want to dose based on those higher numbers.

Don't be upset about the user error in shooting at the beginning. It's not uncommon, seen worse. A vet at Neko's clinic told me a story about a cat that went through insulin really quickly. He asked the cat's owners to show him the dose on the syringe. They were giving 20 instead of 2 units. :eek: That's what the vet's soon to be former vet tech had showed them to do. :banghead: Luckily for the cat, he had a secondary condition that meant he needed a higher dose, and it didn't kill him.
 
That all makes sense. Hopefully the vet will see the value of the data you’re collecting and will begin to encourage the effort. If not, well… we do what we need to do. ;)

Remember, human and pet meters have slightly different “normal” ranges, with human meters generally running a bit lower. It’s not the absolute number that matters, but the trends, and knowing what readings are too low and therefore warrant intervention. Trying to compare results from a human meter and a pet meter, or even from two human meters, can drive you crazy. But you’re certainly not the first member whose vet said human meters aren’t accurate, nor the first to take readings from two meters simultaneously. That’s fine. Usually once one gets more settled into testing and giving shots, you also end up settling on a particular meter. And it certainly never hurts to have a backup.

Good luck with the vet visit.

Also, I’m just curious…are you priming the insulin pen before every use?
 
Maybe you could also consider another vet who is more open to your thoughts. They should be really happy with the extra data you have! I also wonder wby they won’t encourage you to do the curve at home since LFB mught be extra stressed at the vets and that could mess with the BG numbers.

My first vet was very strict and not open to listening to any of my research or the advice from this forum. The vets I go to now are better, but even then they also told me at one point to stop testing so much and even stop the insulin! The difference is these vets understand Falafel is my cat and I think there is an element of trust/respect that I want to do what is best for her and I’m commited. Based on the multiple vets I’ve talked to since Falafel’s DX, I think a lot of them assume owners aren’t equipped/can’t handle the load of a diabetic cat so they try to simplify things.
 
Completely and totally agree with everyone else on here. IMHO, a dose decrease is warranted which will bring about less skipped doses. This will help even him out instead of such huge ups and downs. Getting him on a lower carb dry food will make a big difference too. You may find another dose decrease is warranted after the food change. I absolutely do not agree with your vet that you should only test before a shot. You need to figure out when your kitty peaks/nadirs and you need more testing info for that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top