New member, kitty diagnosed and I feel lost

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MissBigglesmom

MissBigglesmom

Member Since 2024
Hello! My cat was recently diagnosed with diabetes on 1/12/24 and we started insulin on 1/16/24. I feel as though my vet didn’t really give me much guidance and after doing my research on this forum I decided to start her on lantus. Before her diagnosis, her symptoms were excessive urination, slight incontintence when sleeping, sleeping a lot and drinking a lot. She has been adjusting well and I have been testing her myself at home. I’m noticing as the days go on her incontinence has become really bad. I have to keep her in one room because she is leaking urine everywhere. Her glucose levels have come down dramatically. When diagnosed it was 505 and this am it was 195. She really dislikes the DM food so I fed her some fancy feast this afternoon because she barely ate her food this am. Her BG was 195 this am and now 114. I guess my concerns are:
Will the incontinence eventually subside?
Do I have to feed her the prescription Purina dm food or is fancy feast ok?
What level should I not give her a dose at? I don’t want to send her into a hypo?
Any feedback would be appreciated. My baby just turned 17 and two weeks ago she lost her sister to heart failure and kidney failure. I feel so bad for her and I just want to make sure I’m doing everything I can to keep her happy and comfortable.
 
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Welcome to LLB, the best place for help with a diabetic cat. You are way ahead of many since you test at home. We would love to see you set up a spreadsheet that we all you here to track bg. Once set up we can help with dosing.

Hardly anyone here uses DM or any vet foods as there’s no magic and the dry is actually quite high in carbs. I see again you are ahead because you are feeding wet DM which I think is either low or medium carb but as you have found out most cats do not like it. Most feed either Frisky’s or fancy feast pates or raw food.

The incontinence will disappear once regulated if diabetes is the cause. Are her kidney values normal? Sometimes peeing outside the box can be due to ckd or a uti. Sorry for the loss of her sister. It sounds like Mrs. B. does not have those issues.

We use two dosing methods here and since you are feeding all wet food you can follow whichever one you like. I’ll link the dosing sticky.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
 
Hi! Biggles had normal kidney values and negative for uti with urine sample(sterile, directly from bladder). She isn’t “actively” urinating, it’s just coming out of her when she walks around and sleeps. I plan to call her vet again in the am. I’m happy to see her numbers dropping but now I’m afraid of giving her the pm dose. I don’t want her going hypo on me.
 
How long until her next shot? Do you have a hypo kit? Do you have plenty of test strips, high cab food and honey or Karo?

MissBigglesmom said:
This is next on my to do list! I actually have been keeping track. I just need to input all her data into this new SS. Thanks!
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You don’t need to put in all info now. The last two weeks would be great.
 
tiffmaxee said:
How long until her next shot? Do you have a hypo kit? Do you have plenty of test strips, high cab food and honey or Karo?


You don’t need to put in all info now. The last two weeks would be great.
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I do not have high carb food but I do have honey and plenty of test strips. She has only been on insulin for 5 days. Tuesday evening will make a full week of shots
 
We use hours after insulin so if you shoot at 5:30, 6:30 would be +1 and 7:30 would be +2 and so on.
 
That’s a really good nadir (low point in the cycle) for just the 5th day on lantus. The depot takes 5-7 days to see what a dose does. Since you are using a pet meter you would reduce the dose to .75 if the bg falls under 68 if following TR and 90 if following SLGS. you would stall, not feed, and recheck in 20-30 minutes if the bg is under 200. Post your test results at pmps and ask for help if under 200 or not sure whether to shoot.
 
Ok I will test at 5pm before feeding her and giving insulin. I normally feed her then shoot 30 mins after. That’s what the vet instructed.
 
tiffmaxee said:
With Lantus no need to wait. Most of us test, feed, shoot,all within 5-10 minutes. If lower than usual you stall to see if the bg comes up on its own WITHOUT FOOD.
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BG of 127 so I went ahead and fed her a can of fancy feast pate. Still unsure if I should shoot
 
I would not have fed. You were at +11.5 so I would have not fed and test at pmps. Then if still under 200 we advise not feeding and checking again in 20-30 minutes. Now the next test will be food influenced. When new we suggest holding food for 2 hours before shot time. If too low continue to hold food and recheck.

What is the lowest bg you have shot so far?
 
Most feed several small meals each cycle. It’s just suggested you withhold food 2 hours before shots.
 
Welcome to FDMB.

You've been getting some good guidance. Without seeing more information about how your kitty is responding to insulin, I would likely suggest that you err on the side of safety and skip the shot. I would suggest getting a few tests tonight to see how Mrs. Biggles does without the evening insulin dose. Don't be surprised if she's back in high numbers. When a cat's numbers drop lower than where she's used to, the liver and pancreas overreact by releasing a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones. This causes numbers to spike.

Elise is correct in terms of stalling. However, I'm being overly cautious since you haven't had a chance to put together a spreadsheet. In addition, if you stall, the AM shot will be due 12 hours after the time you give the last injection. Your schedule would need the flexibility to accommodate a delayed shot.
 
Oh boy, I def messed that one up I’m going to hold her dose for tonight. Her next dose would be scheduled for tomorrow morning at 5:30 am. I hope this doesn’t mess her up too much. I’m trying! I’m really really trying! My schedule is not that great. I leave at 6am and I am gone all day till 5pm.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I would not have fed. You were at +11.5 so I would have not fed and test at pmps. Then if still under 200 we advise not feeding and checking again in 20-30 minutes. Now the next test will be food influenced. When new we suggest holding food for 2 hours before shot time. If too low continue to hold food and recheck.

What is the lowest bg you have shot so far?
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Her lowest BG was today it was 114. Too be honest my bet never even told me what her numbers should be. I’m completely in the dark with this entire situation. She also told me a normal BG for cats is 250 but i have been reading otherwise.
 
You did not mess up. Given your schedule I would suggest you look at our dosing methods and start with SLGS. I too would have suggested you skip because it the bg was food influenced but also because that’s a low number to shoot without data as the AT meter reads lower than a human meter.

I am not surprised your vet did not give you more guidance. Many don’t or worse yet give the wrong guidance. A cat that dues nit have diabetes will have bg between 68-120 with mostly under 100 on a pet meter. I’m curious if your vet ran a fructosamine and what you were feeding before starting insulin. Do you have a copy of her labs?
 
I suggest you read the stickies on the lantus forum. There’s a lot so don’t get overwhelmed. D start with the dosing methods and then The Basics.
 
tiffmaxee said:
You did not mess up. Given your schedule I would suggest you look at our dosing methods and start with SLGS. I too would have suggested you skip because it the bg was food influenced but also because that’s a low number to shoot without data as the AT meter reads lower than a human meter.

I am not surprised your vet did not give you more guidance. Many don’t or worse yet give the wrong guidance. A cat that dues nit have diabetes will have bg between 68-120 with mostly under 100 on a pet meter. I’m curious if your vet ran a fructosamine and what you were feeding before starting insulin. Do you have a copy of her labs?
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I was told she ran a full senior panel and that her BG was 505 but not in ketoacidosis which is a good thing. She recommended to start with the prescription food while I decided about the insulin. I asked if a diet change would be helpful and if I could hold off on the insulin and she said no, that it wasn’t a good idea. I do not have a copy of her labs on hand.
 
You did not mess. up!! You did exactly the right thing. You didn't know exactly what to do so you posted and asked for help. When you're still trying to get all of this figured out, that's what we tell new members to do.

There is a huge volume of information to learn. It's completely overwhelming. It's going to take a while to establish a routine and to get comfortable with all of what you are learning.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB.

You've been getting some good guidance. Without seeing more information about how your kitty is responding to insulin, I would likely suggest that you err on the side of safety and skip the shot. I would suggest getting a few tests tonight to see how Mrs. Biggles does without the evening insulin dose. Don't be surprised if she's back in high numbers. When a cat's numbers drop lower than where she's used to, the liver and pancreas overreact by releasing a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones. This causes numbers to spike.

Elise is correct in terms of stalling. However, I'm being overly cautious since you haven't had a chance to put together a spreadsheet. In addition, if you stall, the AM shot will be due 12 hours after the time you give the last injection. Your schedule would need the flexibility to accommodate a delayed shot.
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I just made a SS, hopefully I did it right.
 
Welcome Meagan and Mrs Biggles, love her name
For your hypo kit
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.
 
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MissBigglesmom said:
My schedule is not that great. I leave at 6am and I am gone all day till 5pm.
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Have you thought about getting an automatic feeder while your at work so you can program it to open at certain times so Mrs Biggles can have wet food available . They have auto feeders for wet food that come with ice packs. If you like I can suggest some , just ask :cat:
@MissBigglesmom
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Welcome Meagan and Mrs Giggles, love her name
For your hypo kit
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.
Click to expand...
I plan to get some more fancy feast pate since she is eating more of that wet food compared to the Purina DM. I will also grab some higher carb food. I need her to eat, she has lost a but of weight. She was previously on Iams dry food and was a complete grazer. This is big change for her. She seems to nibble at her wet food through out the day. By the time her next feeding comes the bowl is finally empty.
 
Meagan --

Can you do your best to get a test in before your AM shot? Otherwise, you're shooting blind. In other words, you have no idea whether numbers are too low to warrant giving insulin.

And the spreadsheet looks good!
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Meagan --

Can you do your best to get a test in before your AM shot? Otherwise, you're shooting blind. In other words, you have no idea whether numbers are too low to warrant giving insulin.

And the spreadsheet looks good!
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I did a test this am and it was 275. The problem is that she was a hard food grazer before this so she doesn’t eat all of her food in one sitting. I leave her food down until it’s all gone and that is pretty much right before the next feed. I remember someone saying no food two hours before the test but I hate withholding her food from her so early in on this journey.
 
Let me clarify.

If the plan is to give Biggles her shot at 5:30 AM, you want to be sure that she doesn't eat after 3:30 AM. If you test and then put her food down, she may eat a bit and it's fine to give her a shot. I would feed Gabby while her head was in her food bowl. She had all of her meals in installments -- usually 3 smallish amounts over the course of my getting ready to head out to work. In other words, if Biggles doesn't eat all of her food, it's OK. For most cats, Lantus doesn't start to work for approximately 2 hours. So if she's back and forth to her bowl, it's fine. The idea with getting the AMPS test is that it tells you if her numbers are too low to safely shoot.

I would suggest a timed feeder. It will allow you to leave food in the feeder overnight but the feeder won't open after 3:30 AM. It will also allow you to have food available for Biggles when you're not home. I'd look at a model like the Petsafe 5.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Let me clarify.

If the plan is to give Biggles her shot at 5:30 AM, you want to be sure that she doesn't eat after 3:30 AM. If you test and then put her food down, she may eat a bit and it's fine to give her a shot. I would feed Gabby while her head was in her food bowl. She had all of her meals in installments -- usually 3 smallish amounts over the course of my getting ready to head out to work. In other words, if Biggles doesn't eat all of her food, it's OK. For most cats, Lantus doesn't start to work for approximately 2 hours. So if she's back and forth to her bowl, it's fine. The idea with getting the AMPS test is that it tells you if her numbers are too low to safely shoot.

I would suggest a timed feeder. It will allow you to leave food in the feeder overnight but the feeder won't open after 3:30 AM. It will also allow you to have food available for Biggles when you're not home. I'd look at a model like the Petsafe 5.
Click to expand...

I will look into the timed feeder and NOT feed 2 hours before shots. Thanks!
 
MissBigglesmom said:
I will look into the timed feeder and NOT feed 2 hours before shots. Thanks!
Click to expand...


some info on auto feeders always add a little water to the wet food
Here is an auto feeder that hold 5 slots and comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C500-Digital-Automatic/dp/B01AUYLVU8/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuM_y2p79_AIVDvrICh1_xAy6EAAYASAAEgJBDfD_BwE&hvadid=178540036693&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6990619631848479728&hvtargid=kwd-12652445711&hydadcr=10635_9894649&keywords=petsafe 5-meal automatic pet feeder&qid=1675560889&sr=8-6

Extra ice packs so you can keep them in the freezer ready to go
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Rep...5c-bd5c-e23f6094563c&pd_rd_i=B091HTXNHR&psc=1

This one has 3 slots with one ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Automatic-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01MXDFB28

Extra ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Replace...cb-974a-deec2fb8a80c&pd_rd_i=B07KFP7PRG&psc=1

You can even order the stainless steel inserts for the 5 slot if you don't like your kitty eating out of plastic, from what I have heard plastic could cause acne on some cats
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Sta...36-830d-6cc20f385409&pd_rd_i=B0B3MS1MWR&psc=1
 
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