1/17 Tiger AMPS 377, +1 387

Deb and Tiger said:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-4-5-159-5-5-147-6-137-7-170-pmps-408.285684/

After that nice string of blues yesterday, Tiger decided to have a flat ride in the 300s last night. I would guess he’s bouncing….

He ate a great breakfast and then promptly puked it up. One of those, too fast, too much cat pukes. Now to get something in his tummy ps…..

Have a great day everyone!
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Hi Deb, yep, probably a bounce you’re right. Sorry to hear Tiger puked up his breakfast.
One thing I try is I put a little bit out for Ivy let her eat it, put a little more in her bowl, Let her eat it.
I do that a few times at each meal because otherwise she will inhale the whole thing at once and then she tends to puke if she’s in a hurry like that.
Just an idea because you want him to eat before we give their shot and keep it down.
Different tactics work for different cats. Have a safe surf today. Stay warm :bighug::cat::bighug:
 
Thanks Staci that does work. When he’s been going along so well, I kind of forget in the morning rush and just put it down all at once. He hasn’t done that in so long. Luckily he’s usually fine afterward and I give him a few LC kibble and he eats his breakfast just fine. Which he did this morning. I should just make it a habit like you and do it all the time. Thanks for the reminde.

Hope you and Ivy have a wonderful day today. Stay warm while you’re out and about!
 
I have a question, I hope someone can explain to me. Tiger is finally starting to get into the blues and while exciting, I am a bit confused about the parameters for shooting. I understand the premise but he has to acutually be over 200 to shoot? And after stalling and waiting, still not being able to shoot seems like we take a step back from where we want to be. What am I missing?

most I see are on TR and don’t have that problem it seems. Maybe I’m slow but I would like to understand where this takes him to ever get lower. I understand the steps but not the process to lowering the bg.

I find myself hoping he goes up at PS so I can feed and shoot, which feels wrong.

Right now he is right where he was 2 nights ago and that night we did a token dose. I feel we’re not getting anywhere if it happens again.

thanks for any info.
 
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It’s now one hour until he is due for his shot. His bg is 185, down from his last reading .. I know if it’s under 200 we have to decide what to do, don’t dose, stall or token dose. The other night the token just set him back and his bg up In the long run how does the token dose effect it? Do I start counting the seven days again? Does it help his body adjust to the dose? I would like to understand so I can make educated decisions when no one is around! Thanks if you can help me with this?
 
Hi Deb, I would think if you’re around 200 you’re definitely safe to shoot a full dose. With SLGS technically you can shoot any number down to 90. You’re not there yet.
But of course please monitor closely and have carbs ready if needed since all these new numbers are new to you and Tiger!
I hope some more experienced members will chime in to give more detailed support :)
 
One more thing… maybe in your title when you need immediate help say “need help now, Shoot?”
Or something more urgent… this all takes time to get the hang of how it all works. :)
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Hi Deb, I would think if you’re around 200 you’re definitely safe to shoot a full dose. With SLGS technically you can shoot any number down to 90. You’re not there yet.
But of course please monitor closely and have carbs ready if needed since all these new numbers are new to you and Tiger!
I hope some more experienced members will chime in to give more detailed support :)
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oh thank you so much! I thought it was close enough too but….
Unfortunately my question has been up for 2 1/2 hours and 17 views but no on replied, so Ty! I do wonder how token shots play into the grand scheme of it all. Off to feed the poor baby!
 
Deb and Tiger said:
oh thank you so much! I thought it was close enough too but….
Unfortunately my question has been up for 2 1/2 hours and 17 views but no on replied, so Ty! I do wonder how token shots play into the grand scheme of it all. Off to feed the poor baby!
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I understand. I’ve been there too with no reply. It’s very scary. I’m sorry no one replied earlier. :(

Token shots sometimes are necessary. But you want to try to avoid unless really necessary. They just disrupt the depot. But they happen! :)
But safety is most important. 200 is safe so you’ll be fine. And you can watch Tiger on the Libre. :)

Give sweet Tiger a belly rub from me :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Can you put “need help asap” and use question mark in your header now? Please to try to get help.
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All good. When he does this, I give a few kibble and wait about 10 minutes and give him a bit of food, which I did. I got to shoot about 20 minutes late and he’s resting now . I I’ll try to get more food in him before bed, within next two hours.
I won’t sleep much tonight.

I feel so bad that all these changes to diet and feeding times is causing tummy troubles that have been in check for a couple years.
I feel like I’m making his life miserable.

Thanks Staci.
 
Deb and Tiger said:
All good. When he does this, I give a few kibble and wait about 10 minutes and give him a bit of food, which I did. I got to shoot about 20 minutes late and he’s resting now . I I’ll try to get more food in him before bed, within next two hours.
I won’t sleep much tonight.

I feel so bad that all these changes to diet and feeding times is causing tummy troubles that have been in check for a couple years.
I feel like I’m making his life miserable.
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Ok good. I’m glad to hear that. Good you know how to manage his digestive issues. Poor baby.
It will get better, Deb. It’s so new and it’s hard.
Give him little snacks maybe to help get food into him. :)
Sending you a hug. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Ok good. I’m glad to hear that. Good you know how to manage his digestive issues. Poor baby.
It will get better, Deb. It’s so new and it’s hard.
Give him little snacks maybe to help get food into him. :)
Sending you a hug. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thank you so much! It’s been a rough day. Started with puking and ending with it. Yes after all this time, I can sort of manage his tummy issues. I have to figure out how to manage that and the diabetic schedule. Right or wrong I will have to make decisions the best I can and not wait for others input. It’s just I’ve lost the other two babies not that long ago and don’t want to do something wrong with Tiger. Hope tonight goes smooth.
 
Deb and Tiger said:
Thank you so much! It’s been a rough day. Started with puking and ending with it. Yes after all this time, I can sort of manage his tummy issues. I have to figure out how to manage that and the diabetic schedule. Right or wrong I will have to make decisions the best I can and not wait for others input. It’s just I’ve lost the other two babies not that long ago and don’t want to do something wrong with Tiger. Hope tonight goes smooth.
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I’m so sorry to hear you’ve recently lost 2 of your sweet. That’s so heartbreaking. :(
I know you will do everything you can to help Tiger. I can see your strength.
He’s very lucky you’re his mama. And you will find help here. I just feel bad it was a slow night and not enough help came your way fast enough.
But you did great. Try to get some rest. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Hi Deb, glad Staci was here for you. You're doing very well :bighug:
Since Tiger is recently diagnosed and you're still gathering data, it's suggested that when you get a preshot under 200 you stall without feeding and test again. With SLGS and eventually, you will lower that to 90. I'm glad you shot the full dose. As you saw the other night, a token dose just wasn't quite enough.
Did he eat a little more for you?
 
Angela & Cleo said:
Hi Deb, glad Staci was here for you. You're doing very well :bighug:
Since Tiger is recently diagnosed and you're still gathering data, it's suggested that when you get a preshot under 200 you stall without feeding and test again. With SLGS and eventually, you will lower that to 90. I'm glad you shot the full dose. As you saw the other night, a token dose just wasn't quite enough.
Did he eat a little more for you?
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Thank you @Angela & Cleo for jumping in :bighug::bighug:
 
Angela & Cleo said:
Hi Deb, glad Staci was here for you. You're doing very well :bighug:
Since Tiger is recently diagnosed and you're still gathering data, it's suggested that when you get a preshot under 200 you stall without feeding and test again. With SLGS and eventually, you will lower that to 90. I'm glad you shot the full dose. As you saw the other night, a token dose just wasn't quite enough.
Did he eat a little more for you?
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He did eat about a Tbl of food about an hour ago and some LC kibble.

So the number to shoot will decrease? I wondered how we would ever get into low numbers if we always have to wait for 200. Does it go down slowly and when?

so do I restart the 7 days at this dose from after the token shot?

I try to stall but he also has tummy issues and can’t wait too long to eat or he vomits the food up. It such a tightrope to walk.

We had tummmy issues a little over a weeek ago and all he would eat was 15% wet food. Now that’s all he wants, yet his numbers are doing better than with the lower carb food. Does this make any sense?

Thank you Angela for responding. I really do appreciate it! Sorry for all the questions….
 
Sorry Deb, I was asleep when you wrote this.

Deb and Tiger said:
So the number to shoot will decrease? I wondered how we would ever get into low numbers if we always have to wait for 200. Does it go down slowly and when?
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You will learn to lower the no shoot number as you gain data and confidence. For example, 1/14 PM cycle you shot a token dose when the PMPS was 179. As you said above, the token dose wasn't enough. So how to you feel about lowering from 200 to 175 for now?

Deb and Tiger said:
so do I restart the 7 days at this dose from after the token shot?
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When following SLGS, a skip or token dose does not restart the count. That is something done with TR because it is an aggressive protocol with frequent increases and a lower (under 50 for a newly diagnosed diabetic) reduction point. Because you're using the Libre, you have plenty of data to see how the dose is or isn't working. You're looking for nadirs in the 90-150 range.

Deb and Tiger said:
I try to stall but he also has tummy issues and can’t wait too long to eat or he vomits the food up. It such a tightrope to walk.
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Maybe start looking at his PS# 30 minutes before it's due? Then compare that number to nadir (lowest point in the cycle) and the readings leading up to it. For example the ps#s of 190ish are higher than the 141 at +9. That to me looks like the AM shot was wearing off and perfectly safe to shoot the full dose.
Another thing to try and remember is that Lantus usually doesn't start working until around 2 hours after you give the shot therefore you have time to get food into your boy before onset. Does that make sense?

Keep asking questions :).

Also, something I do every morning while I have my coffee is I read The Basics: New to the Group? Start here!
 
Deb and Tiger said:
We had tummmy issues a little over a weeek ago and all he would eat was 15% wet food. Now that’s all he wants, yet his numbers are doing better than with the lower carb food. Does this make any sense?
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Hi Deb, so glad Angela answered your questions.
About 15% food, that will definitely raise his BG as it’s higher carbs.
I rarely use 12% when I want to really put the brakes on a fast drop for Ivy but try to stay with 9% early in the cycle when the insulin is kicking in and the strongest, if needed.
Later in cycle I try to stay with her regular 6% food.
But of course ECID, every cat is different.
:bighug::bighug:
 
Angela & Cleo said:
Sorry Deb, I was asleep when you wrote this.


You will learn to lower the no shoot number as you gain data and confidence. For example, 1/14 PM cycle you shot a token dose when the PMPS was 179. As you said above, the token dose wasn't enough. So how to you feel about lowering from 200 to 175 for now?


When following SLGS, a skip or token dose does not restart the count. That is something done with TR because it is an aggressive protocol with frequent increases and a lower (under 50 for a newly diagnosed diabetic) reduction point. Because you're using the Libre, you have plenty of data to see how the dose is or isn't working. You're looking for nadirs in the 90-150 range.


Maybe start looking at his PS# 30 minutes before it's due? Then compare that number to nadir (lowest point in the cycle) and the readings leading up to it. For example the ps#s of 190ish are higher than the 141 at +9. That to me looks like the AM shot was wearing off and perfectly safe to shoot the full dose.
Another thing to try and remember is that Lantus usually doesn't start working until around 2 hours after you give the shot therefore you have time to get food into your boy before onset. Does that make sense?

Keep asking questions :).

Also, something I do every morning while I have my coffee is I read The Basics: New to the Group? Start here!
Click to expand...

No problem I was asleep when you wrote! Barely, he kept threatening to dive last night so I kept watch! Sometimes libre gives to much info….lol

Lowering the ps number makes so much sense! Yes I think 175 would make it more attainable to get lower numbers overall. I never saw this spelled out about lowering it and how to do it.

I am not sure how to tell when to hold the dose exactly. Does there have to be nadirs below 150 every cycle?
Like this week, there have been some cycles that did go below 150 but there were some that did not. However, it has been an abnormal week for him, Libre not working, changing libre (trip to vet) stomach problems etc. Because of these things could I choose to hold this dose another week to see if it levels out without other contributing factor?

I already do his PS 30 minutes before as he grazes and takes 20-30 minutes to eat his meal. I did not know about comparing it to nadir, but that makes sense. I just didn’t know what to do because the one day (1/14) ps was his nadir….

Thankfully it takes 2 hours because sometimes it takes him that long to finish his meal.

it may not look like it with all my questions, but I do read it over and over, along with other stickies and other posts. I really am trying to learn.

I cannot tell you how much you’ve helped with this info. It will lessen my stress so much! Thank you for taking your time to explain things at my level!!! . You’re an Angel!

Sorry for so many more question….
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Hi Deb, so glad Angela answered your questions.
About 15% food, that will definitely raise his BG as it’s higher carbs.
I rarely use 12% when I want to really put the brakes on a fast drop for Ivy but try to stay with 9% early in the cycle when the insulin is kicking in and the strongest, if needed.
Later in cycle I try to stay with her regular 6% food.
But of course ECID, every cat is different.
:bighug::bighug:
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Oh Staci ty for flagging my post to Angela! Two things I haven’t figured out how to do is, flag someone and break up my replies into sections addressing a post one section at a time.

As far as food, Tiger knows how to play me! We were doing so good gradually lowering to LC food and then he got sick about 2 weeks ago. To get any food in, I fell back to the Friskies 15% that he has eaten all his life. No that’s all he will eat! I am now mixing a bit of it in with the lower carb. Today we sat here 2 hours with him refusing. I finally mixed in a little Friskies and he just now ate. With that tummy, I have to get food in.

I know better but he doesn’t! I am going to up his cerenia to every day vs every other day to try to get completely over this spell. He has been on 1/2 cerenia every other day as a sort of maintenance plan but he actually can have up to one pill every day if needed.

Thanks again for being my savior! My guardian Angel!
 
Deb and Tiger said:
Oh Staci ty for flagging my post to Angela! Two things I haven’t figured out how to do is, flag someone and break up my replies into sections addressing a post one section at a time.

As far as food, Tiger knows how to play me! We were doing so good gradually lowering to LC food and then he got sick about 2 weeks ago. To get any food in, I fell back to the Friskies 15% that he has eaten all his life. No that’s all he will eat! I am now mixing a bit of it in with the lower carb. Today we sat here 2 hours with him refusing. I finally mixed in a little Friskies and he just now ate. With that tummy, I have to get food in.

I know better but he doesn’t! I am going to up his cerenia to every day vs every other day to try to get completely over this spell. He has been on 1/2 cerenia every other day as a sort of maintenance plan but he actually can have up to one pill every day if needed.

Thanks again for being my savior! My guardian Angel!
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I’m so happy to help in any way I can, Deb. It’s my pleasure. Just want to see you and Tiger be safe and happy :bighug::bighug:
 
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