1/7 Tiger AMPS 395,177+6.25 290+9 pmps 430

Marje, here is my question.
Tiger has similar patterns that Staci showed on her Libre. Deep dives and climb.
You know he has to eat every 6 hours because of tummy.
During the day it seems to affect him as soon as I feed him, at AM+6. At night, he eats kibble at +3 and doesn’t affect it. He then eats at +6 (3am) but his numbers seem to already be on the rise shortly before he eats.

Any suggestions/ observations?
 
Marje, one more question.
I just can’t get him used to a new schedule.

before FD, he ate 7:30 am, 2:30pm, 5:00 pm, 11pm snack and 3am snack.
I am having a terrible time with the 5pm, dinner. His shot is 8 pm and I can barely get him to 7pm for dinner.
Is it terrible to feed that early? He usually grazes for an hour or two anyway.
 
Question for anyone…
Both times he has been at 2 units, all he does is sleep. Wakes to eat but no scratching or playing.
At any lower dose he is fine. Playing, scratching, and wanting attention. Really saddens me to see him like this.
Anyone else have this happen?
 
Marje, one more question.
I just can’t get him used to a new schedule.

before FD, he ate 7:30 am, 2:30pm, 5:00 pm, 11pm snack and 3am snack.
I am having a terrible time with the 5pm, dinner. His shot is 8 pm and I can barely get him to 7pm for dinner.
Is it terrible to feed that early? He usually grazes for an hour or two anyway.
Deb

We’ve had guests tonight and now it’s late so I hope you will accept my apology and allow me to respond tomorrow. I still have to feed our cats their late dinner and clean up. Thank you for your patience.
 
Question for anyone…
Both times he has been at 2 units, all he does is sleep. Wakes to eat but no scratching or playing.
At any lower dose he is fine. Playing, scratching, and wanting attention. Really saddens me to see him like this.
Anyone else have this happen?
Hi Deb, just my own observation...with Ivy, who is a 12.5 year old lady....she pretty much sleeps all day (and night too). She's really only active around meal time. If I had to guess, it seems to be an age thing. Ivy has been a sleeper even before FD. She's an only cat, so no siblings to play with or stimulate her. Dose doesn't seem to matter to Ivy.

But...if Tiger was more active, then maybe you have something there.:bighug::bighug:
 
Marje, here is my question.
Tiger has similar patterns that Staci showed on her Libre. Deep dives and climb.
You know he has to eat every 6 hours because of tummy.
During the day it seems to affect him as soon as I feed him, at AM+6. At night, he eats kibble at +3 and doesn’t affect it. He then eats at +6 (3am) but his numbers seem to already be on the rise shortly before he eats.

Any suggestions/ observations?
Thanks for your patience in letting me respond to this today.

I only see two significant drops and that’s on PM 1/3 and PM 1/6. While some of the others might seem large to you, remember there is a 20% variance between meter readings so even 441 to 360 is just slightly over 20% less from 441.

Our general recommendation for working with Lantus is to feed small minimeals at PS, +1, +2, +3 to start and then see how that works with the curve. If you are only feeding every six hours, you aren’t working the insulin properly. Cats should not eat within two hours prior to a PS test (unless the BG is below 50) so that BG is not influenced by food. In addition, any time you are feeding after mid cycle, especially with HC, you are shortening his duration and his BG is going to rise quickly. If the BG is headed up anyway because he has lost duration, and then he starts to bounce because of a BG in the 100s that he isn’t used to, then he’s going to go up really high. I can tell he’s losing duration because he started HI last night but gradually came down to 240.

Since I don’t know what his “tummy issues” are (what has he been diagnosed with?), it’s hard to give you advice on this. However, I can tell you that if you are feeding him at PS and then not feeding him again for six hours, you aren’t going to be able to control the curve like you want and you’ll see these patterns continue. Likewise, feeding him after nadir, other than a very LC, freeze-dried type snack, is doing to stop his duration.

I do understand, though, the difficulty in changing feeding patterns. Some cats will adopt to it right away like my Gracie did. However, I am thankful my boy is not diabetic because, no matter how hard I try, he does not want to get onto a feeding schedule like my little female is on. He’s a “grazer” cat (he gets no dry food) and by that I mean he just likes to eat a few bites when he’s hungry but he does not like to sit down four times a day and eat a full portion of food like my little one does.

It might help me more if I knew what his “tummy issues” are and what you are doing to address them.

It might take him a little time to adjust to a new dose but their little bodies don’t like these high numbers. Beyond that, I don’t know why he sleeps more; cats do sleep about 18 hours a day but you know him best so know if his pattern has changed. I don’t really think there is anything about a 2u dose, that he obviously needs, other than adjusting to it.
 
Thanks for your patience in letting me respond to this today.

I only see two significant drops and that’s on PM 1/3 and PM 1/6. While some of the others might seem large to you, remember there is a 20% variance between meter readings so even 441 to 360 is just slightly over 20% less from 441.

Our general recommendation for working with Lantus is to feed small minimeals at PS, +1, +2, +3 to start and then see how that works with the curve. If you are only feeding every six hours, you aren’t working the insulin properly. Cats should not eat within two hours prior to a PS test (unless the BG is below 50) so that BG is not influenced by food.

Tiger is also a grazer. He usually grazes on his meal for 3 hours. Does this count for the +1, +2, +3? We try so hard to stretch his ps feeding to just before he gets his shot but he wants to eat an hour before and gets mad and refuses to eat at ps. Catitude!


In addition, any time you are feeding after mid cycle, especially with HC, you are shortening his duration and his BG is going to rise quickly. If the BG is headed up anyway because he has lost duration, and then he starts to bounce because of a BG in the 100s that he isn’t used to, then he’s going to go up really high. I can tell he’s losing duration because he started HI last night but gradually came down to 240.

I am giving him 5% at his mid meal at am +6 as much as possible. At night he gets about a tbls of kibble. Right now it’s like a 20% kibble but working on switching to LC kibble. Dr Kelsey’s gave him burps badly so trying Young Again and testing as treats.

Since I don’t know what his “tummy issues” are (what has he been diagnosed with?), it’s hard to give you advice on this. However, I can tell you that if you are feeding him at PS and then not feeding him again for six hours, you aren’t going to be able to control the curve like you want and you’ll see these patterns continue. Likewise, feeding him after nadir, other than a very LC, freeze-dried type snack, is doing to stop his duration.

We have had test after test but nothing proven, he gets excess bile in his tummy if it gets empty. Several vets recommended giving cerenia and not to let him go over 6 hours without food. Proof he needs this shows when last week his auto feeder was empty and we didn’t know it for 2 nights. He got very sick and needed a vet visit for a shot. He gets a half of cerenia every other day. This routine has worked for years.

I do understand, though, the difficulty in changing feeding patterns. Some cats will adopt to it right away like my Gracie did. However, I am thankful my boy is not diabetic because, no matter how hard I try, he does not want to get onto a feeding schedule like my little female is on. He’s a “grazer” cat (he gets no dry food) and by that I mean he just likes to eat a few bites when he’s hungry but he does not like to sit down four times a day and eat a full portion of food like my little one does.

Yup, Tiger is just like your boy.

It might help me more if I knew what his “tummy issues” are and what you are doing to address them.

It might take him a little time to adjust to a new dose but their little bodies don’t like these high numbers. Beyond that, I don’t know why he sleeps more; cats do sleep about 18 hours a day but you know him best so know if his pattern has changed. I don’t really think there is anything about a 2u dose, that he obviously needs, other than adjusting to it.

Sorry I did something wrong. I replied to each part of this but it only put my last part at the bottom. Please see my reply to each concern within copied post above.

Thankfully, he seems more active today, actually played and hopped around with his ball! Maybe just getting used to dose.

not sure how I will fix the feeding issues, feels like I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Thanks for any help and taking your time with this!
 
Last edited:
Sorry I did something wrong. I replied to each part of this but it only put my last part at the bottom. Please see my reply to each concern within copied post above.

Thankfully, he seems more active today, actually played and hopped around with his ball! Maybe just getting used to dose.

not sure how I will fix the feeding issues, feels like I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Thanks for any help and taking your time with this!
Usually with minimeals, we give them in portions to help work with the insulin so you might give a bigger portion at PS and then less portions for the others but if he’s eating over those three hours, that is at least helpful. It isn’t good that he eats an hour before PS. I wonder if you moved his shot time back one hour if that would help? In other words, if he wants to eat at 7, make that his shot time instead of 8?

And you said, somewhere I think, that he doesn’t like freeze dried LC food of any type instead of dry? I know in another condo, other members suggested several types which were freeze dried but more like dry food.

Have they done a bile acid assay test on him? It might be worth it to do one and if that shows an issue, there is a medicine called ursodiol that can be given longterm. And you are sure it’s bile and not just tummy acid he’s throwing up? Because it’s not uncommon for cats to get acid tummies overnight and vomit in the morning if they don’t have any food. I wonder if he would even eat some boiled chicken as a late cycle snack instead of dry food? Gracie loved that!

I’m glad he’s feeling better today. With FD, we have to deal with the parameters that we have. There is the “ideal” way to manage it but then there is also the “adaptive” way which means addressing the specifics of the kitty involved so the CG is not run ragged, stressed, and exhausted.
 
Usually with minimeals, we give them in portions to help work with the insulin so you might give a bigger portion at PS and then less portions for the others but if he’s eating over those three hours, that is at least helpful. It isn’t good that he eats an hour before PS. I wonder if you moved his shot time back one hour if that would help? In other words, if he wants to eat at 7, make that his shot time instead of 8?

We will think about doing that if he doesn’t get accustomed to the change. Downside less sleep for us.

And you said, somewhere I think, that he doesn’t like freeze dried LC food of any type instead of dry? I know in another condo, other members suggested several types which were freeze dried but more like dry food.

I don’t know yet. I ordered some and just got it. Was waiting a bit to try it as I am testing the LC kibble now. Don’t want to do both at the same time or won’t know which isn’t working if there is a problem.

Have they done a bile acid assay test on him? It might be worth it to do one and if that shows an issue, there is a medicine called ursodiol that can be given longterm. And you are sure it’s bile and not just tummy acid he’s throwing up? Because it’s not uncommon for cats to get acid tummies overnight and vomit in the morning if they don’t have any food. I wonder if he would even eat some boiled chicken as a late cycle snack instead of dry food? Gracie loved that!


It’s been over a year since last tests so I don’t remember them all but seems like they checked everything between the vet and the ER.
I would have to be up to give it to him but I may have to if LC kibble doesn’t work.

I’m glad he’s feeling better today. With FD, we have to deal with the parameters that we have. There is the “ideal” way to manage it but then there is also the “adaptive” way which means addressing the specifics of the kitty involved so the CG is not run ragged, stressed, and exhausted.

Right now I feel all three!



Thank you for all the time you are taking with me. Your knowledge is amazing!
 
Right now I feel all three!
Thank you for all the time you are taking with me. Your knowledge is amazing!

Yes…you are correct…change only one thing at a time. It would surprise me if anyone checked his bile acid assay. I don’t see a lot of vets doing that. But it’s just a suggestion and hopefully they all provided you with all of his tests so you can see what they did.

I’m happy to help and the knowledge….tip of the iceberg :smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:
 
Back
Top