12/26/23 New here (Jasmine)

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SneakyPete

Member Since 2023
Jasmine is a 15 year old long haired tuxedo who I met at a pet store in 2017 after her owner passed away. Due to her matted fur she was a patchy mess surrounded by playful kittens. I had recently gone through a separation and was still putting my life back together when I saw her in what i thought to be in a similar situation. I feared she may never be adopted and still to this day believe we saved each other. A year later in 2018 she was diagnosed with diabetes. For the better part of 5 years she had 0 incidents. I moved from upstate NY to Brooklyn in September and everything has changed. She has been to the ER 5 times in as little as 4 months. She has had her insulin changed from Vetsulin to Lantus, her dosage reduced multiple times, and she has been called a spicy meatball by a tech once. I was even told to be hopful that she may be in remission but her recent hypoglycemic incident on Christmas eve shattered those hopes. It has been such an emotional rollercoaster that seemingly happened out of nowhere and I find myself overwhelmed with how fast it has spiraled and all the potential variables. I discovered this forum by accident but I'm really hoping for some comfort and some advice from others who may have at one time found themselves in a similar situation. I desperately want to be hopeful but the recent events and close calls have me terrified that I don't have much time left with her.
 
Welcome to the group. I'm sorry that you and Jasmine are going through this right now. You are in the right place.

I'm going to tag some senior members that can help you out with fine medical details.

What you are going through is very overwhelming, isolating, and scary. It is absolutely a rollercoaster of emotions. Just know you aren't alone. Many members here has been in a very similar situation.

@Sienne and Gabby (GA) @Wendy&Neko @Marje and Gracie @Suzanne & Darcy
 
Hello and welcome. Jasmine is one gorgeous kitty! From one slightly spicey at vet long haired tuxedo girl caregiver to another. My girl was also started on Caninsulin (Vetsulin just branded differently in the US), then we switched to Lantus. By the way, that was a good move. Vetsulin is a good insulin for dogs.... Either Lantus or Prozinc best for cats. How long ago did she switch to Lantus? And what dose of insulin is she on now?
I was even told to be hopful that she may be in remission but her recent hypoglycemic incident on Christmas eve shattered those hopes
A hypo incident means her current insulin dose is too high and needs to be lowered. What are the reasons you've been going to the ER with her?

What food are you feeding her now? Has there been any change in diet?
 
By the way, that was a good move. Vetsulin is a good insulin for dogs.... Either Lantus or Prozinc best for cats. How long ago did she switch to Lantus? And what dose of insulin is she on now?
Jasmine was initially perscribed Vetsulin (2 units twice a day) by a vet in the small upstate town I lived in when she was diagnosed diabetic in 2018. She switched to Lantus in September of this year at the suggestion of an Internist at the hospital here in Brooklyn. She said the same thing about Vetsulin being not so good for cats. Jasmine initially started in September on 1 unit of Glargine (which I've been told is the generic version of Lantus) twice a day but after her most recent hypo she is on .5 (twice a day) which makes me nervous having to just "eyeball" the dosage.
 
A hypo incident means her current insulin dose is too high and needs to be lowered. What are the reasons you've been going to the ER with her?
It's alot of information to type on a phone so in an effort of getting it all accurate I'll respond to this with my laptop later today.
 
Jasmine initially started in September on 1 unit of Glargine (which I've been told is the generic version of Lantus) twice a day but after her most recent hypo she is on .5 (twice a day) which makes me nervous having to just "eyeball" the dosage.
Are you in the US? You can get insulin syringes that have half unit markings, so you don't have to eyeball a .5. That's what most of us use on this forum. :) I believe most people here get them from Walmart, but I get mine from the Jewel Osco pharmacy down the street from me. For some reason, Walgreens didn't have them and seemed confused about it (about a lot of things, actually), but I think that might have been the specific clerk, and not a reflection on all Walgreens or their employees :)
 
Oh, and do you home test at all? That will keep Jasmine safe from going hypo again and can help get the diabetes under control. Most of us here use human glucose meters called Relion, which are sold at Walmart. They're cheap, like $9. And you can get 100 test strips for roughly $17.

Links to the meter and test strips so you can take a look.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-P...100-Count/575088197?athbdg=L1102&from=/search

And if you were going to get the meter and test strips, you might as well make your life easier and get the insulin syringes with half unit markings too. :)
 
@Snickers and Chrissy - I believe she's in the US. She mentioned moving to Brooklyn from. upstate NY. If there's not a Walmart near you, any human meter is fine to use. We tend to mention the Walmart meter because the strips are inexpensive. However, the strips for any human glucometer are considerably less expensive than those for a pet meter.

I'm very glad your new vet switched Jasmine to glargine. You may want to take a look at the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board. The notes contain information about how Lantus works as well as has a post describing our dosing methods. It's very helpful reading.

I'm a bit confused about why you think a hypoglycemic episode means your cat may not be approaching remission. As Wendy noted, a drop into low numbers is a signal that your dose is too large. We recommend reducing the dose by 0.25u. (There are no syringes that are calibrated in less than 0.5u so you will have to eyeball the dose.) What may be immediately apparent is that when a cat drops into lower numbers, there is a physiological response that causes blood glucose numbers to spike upward. We refer to this as a "bounce." It's a protective reaction by the liver and pancreas -- a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones are released if numbers drop too low, too fast, or into a lower range your cat is no longer used to. As an example, my cat started the day in the 400s, dropped into the 40s, and by her next shot time, her numbers were in the 400s. Despite the high numbers, the drop into the 40s indicated that I needed to reduce the dose.

If you're not already home testing, we are vocal advocates for doing so. It is the best way to ensure your cat is in safe numbers. Since you're already seeing Jasmine drop into low numbers, it's even more important. We have lots of resources on home testing if you need them. In addition to home testing, we encourage members to keep track of their data in a spreadsheet. This is a link to our post on helping us to help you. It has instructions on how to set up your spreadsheet along with information to add to your signature so we dong keep pestering you for what insulin you're using, what you're feeding Jasmine, etc.

Please let us know if you have questions. The members here are very generous with their time and knowledge. We're here to help.
 
Are you in the US? You can get insulin syringes that have half unit markings, so you don't have to eyeball a .5. That's what most of us use on this forum. :) I believe most people here get them from Walmart, but I get mine from the Jewel Osco pharmacy down the street from me. For some reason, Walgreens didn't have them and seemed confused about it (about a lot of things, actually), but I think that might have been the specific clerk, and not a reflection on all Walgreens or their employees :)
Thank you! I will definitely be searching for them. One of the many vets I've spoken to neglected to tell me about 0.5 syringes which concerns me.
 
Thank you! I will definitely be searching for them. One of the many vets I've spoken to neglected to tell me about 0.5 syringes which concerns me.
Just to note that, as Sienne mentioned, on this forum we tend to adjust the dose by .25 units, and there are no syringes with .25 markings. Just the whole and half units. So if/when adjusting by .25, we still eyeball that. But it's a lot easier when you have the syringes with the half unit marks :)

I think a lot of vets just don't think to mention you can get them with the half unit markings, but they are pretty common so you shouldn't have a lot of trouble finding them. :)
 
My vet didn't tell me about them either. I learned for this group. While it is concerning, you'll find that happens often. I got Relion syringers with the half unit marks from Walmart. My walmart didn't require a prescription for them. I recently had to order more and got them from Amazon. I prefer them too because the needle is 2mm longer. UltiCare VetRx U-100 Pet Insulin Syringes, Comfortable & Accurate Dosing of Insulin for Pets, Compatible w/Any U-100 Strength Insulin, Size: 3/10cc, 31G x 5/16’’, w/Half Unit Markings, 60 ct Box https://a.co/d/79XSu74

How is Jasmine doing today?
 
This is what the packaging looks like: either box is fine
They won't say it half unit on the box but the are . open then and look before you leave the store, can't be ordered on line , need to go into the store
:




upload_2021-9-5_23-18-9-jpeg.62508
 
Just so you know exactly what to look for with the syringes:
Using syringes with a pen, cartridge, or vial:
  • U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for drawing Lantus, Levemir, or the Biosimilars from vials, cartridges, and pens.
  • BD Ultra-Fine, CarePoint Vet, Monoject, GNP, UltiCare Vet Rx, Sure Comfort, and ReliOn are just some of the brands available with half unit markings.
  • Syringes come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges are 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest
 
Hello and welcome. Jasmine is one gorgeous kitty! From one slightly spicey at vet long haired tuxedo girl caregiver to another. My girl was also started on Caninsulin (Vetsulin just branded differently in the US), then we switched to Lantus. By the way, that was a good move. Vetsulin is a good insulin for dogs.... Either Lantus or Prozinc best for cats. How long ago did she switch to Lantus? And what dose of insulin is she on now?

A hypo incident means her current insulin dose is too high and needs to be lowered. What are the reasons you've been going to the ER with her?

What food are you feeding her now? Has there been any change in diet?
Short answer to both questions is she gets Tiki cat wet aloha friends about 1/2 a can twice a day and grazes a bit of Tiki cat Born Carnivore indoor health. Previously she had Tiki Cat compliments and broth twice a day and grazed on Purina cat chow naturals.

I apologize in advance for the lengthy message but I wanted to be as accurate as possible.

- 9/2019 Jasmine was diagnosed as being a diabetic and I was instructed by a small vet clinic to give 2 unites of Vetsulin twice a day (typically 10am / 10pm). No bg scanning or ketone dipsticks were mentioned. She was free fed Purina cat chow naturals because she had been a grazer all her life and I had no luck with scheduled feeding because she would only nibble and walk away. She received her insulin in the morning with tiki cat compliments which she typically only at 1/4 pouch and she would insist on 1 tsp of milk in a tiny saucer. From 9/2019 to 7/2023 she had regular checkups at the local vet. Fructosamine tests and regulation / curves were done every 6 months. during those 4 years her dosage rose from 2.0 - 2.5 which is where it remained when I moved to NYC in 9/2023. Prior to moving none of the vets I saw mentioned anything about at home testing or ketones and since she never showed any symptoms, maintained a healthy weight, was active I never thought twice about it.

- 9/01/2023 I moved from upstate NY into an apartment in Brooklyn with my girlfriend and her 4 year old heeler mix puppy who had been living there for 10 years. (we slowly introduced the 2 of them over several months and they seemed to get along without much issue.

- 9/07/2023 in the morning out of the blue (no change in diet, or insulin amounts or any other variables that I can think of other than the apartment) she exhibited concerning signs. (wobbly, confused, dialated pupils) so I rushed her to a clinic on the same block as where I live. They took her BG level and noticed they were very low (40's if i remember correctly). they gave her fluids to stabilize her and suggested to attach a freestyle libre to her to monitor her Bg level. They told me that it was relatively accurate so I agreed. He advised me not to give insulin that evening but to try and give her 2 units in the morning (instead of 2.5) based on what the Libre reading was. Also scheduled an appointment with an internist at a recommended hospital.

-9/08/2023 Jasmine ate as normal and the meter read about 256 so she received 2 units of vetsulin at 10am. By 7pm Freestyle Libre noted low BG and since the vet that treated her was closed I rushed her to the local Emergency room where she was treated for low BG. they stabilized her and advised me to discontinue insulin if the Freestyle Libre reads lower than 150-200.

-9/09/2023 - 9/10/23 are a little hazy because it was so chaotic and the digital records i received are not the greatest. (I changed her food to tiki cat wet aloha friends / grillers and her dry food to Tiki cat Borne Carnivore indoor health. She typically ate about 1/4 of the can per meal and continued to graze her dry food throughout the day and evening.) If I remember correctly she read slightly over the 200 suggestion so I gave her 1 unit of Vetsulin in the morning after she ate normally. I honestly dont remember the evening of the 9th but on 9/10 she showed little appetite but her BG were still above 200 so I believe she got 1/2 a unit of vetsulin and by 4pm showed signs of Hypoglycemia and freestyle read 63. Gave her nutrical to boost her BG and rushed her to Emergency room where she was treated again and discharged. I spoke to the vet who told me that as long as she is below 350-400 range I shouldn't worry about insulin considering her recent admissions.

At this point i was terrified of giving insulin and from 9/11 - 9/15 she received no insulin as I monitored her Libre and her physical symptoms. Her Libre typically read between 250-350 and she generally seemed ok.

-9/15/23 she showed signs of lethargy, weakness, and lack of interest in most things so I took to the ER at which point they discovered elevated ketones. They suggested monitoring in house with fluids to get the ketones back down. Jasmine remained in the ER until the evening of 9/17/23 when she was discharged and was able to return home.

-9/19/23 Finally had an appointment with an internist (different hospital) who suggested we change from Vetsulin to Lantus due to Vetsulin not being the best for cats and suggested overnight monitoring at the hospital to ensure a correct insulin dose. Tested for pancreatic cancer, chronic lung disease, heart issues... all came back negative besides a heart murmur which I was told not to be too concerned with at the moment but it would be something to have checked out by a cardiologist down the road. She remained in the hospital until the afternoon of 9/21/23 when she was discharged now receiving 1 unit of Glargine (which I was told is the generic brand of Lantus). I was also told about ketodiastix as a non invasive way to check ketones and basic BG and also a glucometer such as Alphatrak to get blood sugar readings. I purchased a tidy cats breeze litter system to be able to monitor via her urine and an Alpha Trak 3 just incase I couldn't get urine readings.

-9/21/23 - 12/10/22 Jasmine was receptive yet suspicious of the litterbox but I was able to successfully obtain readings. Ketones were negative and trace amounts of Glucose present and she appeared to be happy, active, playful ..etc. There were periods I was unable to test her due to my own health issues but I always kept a close eye on her physical condition.

- 12/11/23 Given normal routine of wet food / insulin @ 10am but around 4pm showed signs of hypoglycemia. treated her at home with a drop of Nutrical on her gums and some wet food which she ate and since I was unable to test her for a few days I tried to to use the AlphaTrak and I couldn't get the control to be within the correct range for cats. I monitored her and made plans to take her to ER but she seemed to get better after about 20 minutes. I skipped her insulin dose that evening.

- 12/12/23 She showed normal behavioral signs, mooching for food in the morning and energetic so I gave her 1/2 unit of Glargine with her breakfast and monitored her through the day and ordered a new AlphaTrak. She appeared to return to normal throughout the day however I was still unable to get a urine sample but I also didn't want her to develop ketones so I gave her 3/4 unit of glargine with her normal dinner.

-12/13/23 - 12/20/23 Jasmine received her normal dosage of 1 unit of Glargine twice a day and continued to show a healthy appetite and normal behavior. She became suspicious of the breeze pellets so I had to switch back to normal litter for fear she may withhold and cause a health problem. The AlphaTrak was delayed so all I could do was overanalyze her every behavior throughout each day.

- 12/21/23 Received 1 unit of Glargine with normal food at 10am. Exhibited signs of hypoglycemia so I took her to the ER after Nutrical and food seemed to not have much effect. They confirmed low BG, got her stable and suggested she stay overnight for monitoring.

- 12/22/23 remained in ER and I was told they suspected she was in remission so they after stabilizing her BG they slowly weened her off insulin and continued to monitor. Her sugar seemed to stabilize off insulin and I was told the wonderful news of her successful remission with the caveat that there was no guarantee she would not relapse. I was also informed that Jasmine is mildly anemic but not anything concerning. She was cleared for discharge at 5pm on 12/23/23. After bringing her home she seemed not like herself. Very weak and tired and just seemed uninterested in anything but I thought it was just fatigue from being in the ER so frequently and I figured maybe in the morning her mood will get better.

-12/24/23 She had little appetite in the morning and continued throughout the day to just be weak and uninterested in anything. She seemed to just lay next to the water bowl and continuously drank a lot of water so I called the ER and they advised to bring her in. Admitted into the ER and shown to have Ketones (1.4 if I remember correctly). More testing, checking again for pancreas issues and restarted insulin this time 1/2 unit of Glargine twice a day.

-12/26/23 She was discharged after a lengthy conversation with another vet about possible long term plans and once home I immediately saw an improvement in her behavior. She was back to mooching and had energy.
 
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My vet didn't tell me about them either. I learned for this group. While it is concerning, you'll find that happens often. I got Relion syringers with the half unit marks from Walmart. My walmart didn't require a prescription for them. I recently had to order more and got them from Amazon. I prefer them too because the needle is 2mm longer. UltiCare VetRx U-100 Pet Insulin Syringes, Comfortable & Accurate Dosing of Insulin for Pets, Compatible w/Any U-100 Strength Insulin, Size: 3/10cc, 31G x 5/16’’, w/Half Unit Markings, 60 ct Box https://a.co/d/79XSu74

How is Jasmine doing today?
Thank you very much I plan on ordering them ASAP
She hasn't been doing the greatest to be honest. She did eat this morning but it seemed to take a bit of work but it may also have been my failed attempt at getting blood maybe angered her. She has been sleeping most of the day and up until now hasn't used the litterbox (she just did). I am really struggling with getting blood from her and I plan on doing a lot of reading on this forum for tips and tricks but any suggestions in the meantime? She didnt really seem to eat much of her food but I also tried and failed to get blood again before dinner. Because she ate so little and I dont have a reading I'm thinking of skipping her 1/2 unit dose this evening. Thoughts on if this sounds like a good idea or not are welcome. She has a 3:00 appointment with an internist tomorrow and Im also thinking about having them put a freestyle libre on her temporarily while I learn to get blood from her. At least this way I have a basic idea of what her BG is rather than being completely in the dark.
 
Oh, and do you home test at all?
I had used Ketodiastix to measure ketones and BG as advised by her internist. Before finding this forum I was convinced a lancet would hurt her and didn't fully understand the benefit of a Glucometer over ketodiastix. Since her discharge yesterday I have attempted at getting blood and testing but I have yet to be successful. I plan on reading over the forums for tips and tricks because I realize that this needs to be the plan going forward for both Jasmines well being and my mental health wellbeing.
 
Here's tips on home testing.

Warming her ear will help you the most. Sock with rice in the microwave (just test it on your arm first to make sure tt isn't too hot.) If you don't have a microwave, empty pill bottle with warm water or a warm papertowel.

Hometesting tips
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Also, watch the videos linked there. The strips suck up the blood typically. I wasn't doing it right initially.

When you see the photo of the sweet spot on that link, pay attention. That is where you want to test.

Also, you want 26 or 28 gauge lancets.
 
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@Snickers and Chrissy - I believe she's in the US. She mentioned moving to Brooklyn from. upstate NY. If there's not a Walmart near you, any human meter is fine to use. We tend to mention the Walmart meter because the strips are inexpensive. However, the strips for any human glucometer are considerably less expensive than those for a pet meter.

I'm very glad your new vet switched Jasmine to glargine. You may want to take a look at the sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board. The notes contain information about how Lantus works as well as has a post describing our dosing methods. It's very helpful reading.

I'm a bit confused about why you think a hypoglycemic episode means your cat may not be approaching remission. As Wendy noted, a drop into low numbers is a signal that your dose is too large. We recommend reducing the dose by 0.25u. (There are no syringes that are calibrated in less than 0.5u so you will have to eyeball the dose.) What may be immediately apparent is that when a cat drops into lower numbers, there is a physiological response that causes blood glucose numbers to spike upward. We refer to this as a "bounce." It's a protective reaction by the liver and pancreas -- a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones are released if numbers drop too low, too fast, or into a lower range your cat is no longer used to. As an example, my cat started the day in the 400s, dropped into the 40s, and by her next shot time, her numbers were in the 400s. Despite the high numbers, the drop into the 40s indicated that I needed to reduce the dose.

If you're not already home testing, we are vocal advocates for doing so. It is the best way to ensure your cat is in safe numbers. Since you're already seeing Jasmine drop into low numbers, it's even more important. We have lots of resources on home testing if you need them. In addition to home testing, we encourage members to keep track of their data in a spreadsheet. This is a link to our post on helping us to help you. It has instructions on how to set up your spreadsheet along with information to add to your signature so we dong keep pestering you for what insulin you're using, what you're feeding Jasmine, etc.

Please let us know if you have questions. The members here are very generous with their time and knowledge. We're here to help.

I will definitely be reading through the sticky notes of the Lantus board.

I guess I've just been so overwhelmed by all the trips to the ER and different vets that I lost sight of the fact that she is going down in dosage which is good.

I have only just begun to home test using a glucometer and I really need to read up on everything because I know this is the best plan moving forward for both Jasmine and I. I will also look at the link you sent and set that up so everyone can see the information. I truly appreciate yours and everyone elses help during this difficult time. Thank you.
 
I don't want to keep throwing links and info at you. Let me know when you want more or if you have questions.

I do want to ask if you have a hypo kit ready in case she dips again. @SneakyPete

Also, you are very welcome.

No worries about the links I would've spent a majority of the day reading through the entire forum for tips had my mother in law not been over. In the past I've used Nutrical and given her wet food and monitored for 20 minutes to see if that helps and if it doesn't its a trip to the ER. What else should I include in the kit?
 
I also want to give you this link. Ways to help stimulate appetite.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/suggestions-on-how-to-stimulate-kittys-appetite.130770/

I had to get ondansetron (anti nausea pill) and an appetite stimulant for my cat because he wouldn't eat. I tried most of these tricks first though. It is important to not let Jasmine go too long without consuming calories.

Since no one is popping on, I will tell you what I would do about her dose tonight. If she were my cat and I was in your shoes and I couldn't get a reading, I would have to skip the shot. You have no way of knowing her numbers and shooting her could be very dangerous. She's already had a hypo event. Often times, cats become more sensitive to insulin after a hypo event.
 
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also. Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up.

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As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.

When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear. Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear

You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops.

Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets.

A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device I find it better to see where I'm aiming. Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with.

Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty.

She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.
Most all of us use a human meter since that's what our numbers are based on
Those Alpha Trak test strips are too expensive, plus you need to order them and always be sure you have enough stock
I have always used a human meter.

VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar


This human meter is what most members use here
Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197

At least you can run into Walmart and get them

By the way if you do get the Libre put on that's actually a human meter so why not get the Relion Meter , but it's up to you if you want to use the Alpha Trak , just trying to save you some money :cat:
 
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If you can fill out your signature that would be helpful ,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray
Tap in the blue link and be sure to mention in your signature ketones
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help
If you need help setting it up just ask
The link will also tell you how to set up the spreadsheet and explains how to use it, it's very easy , look at anyone's
If it wasn't for the experienced members here giving me their advice I know Tyler wouldn't be in remission since 1-24-21
 
What meter do you have? Not being able to get a test it is best to skip. My vet taught me using a needle instead of a lancet and I always got blood right from the start. I used 25 gauge needles.
 
Next time you're at the store you can pick up some of these also for your hypo kit
For your Hypo kit
Med and High Carb food and some honey/karo



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
 
I haven't fully been able to explore the forum but I was wondering if there is a post about freestyle Libre or an overall opinion on them? Since Jasmine has an appointment tomorrow and I have been struggling with getting blood, I was thinking of asking the vet to give her a Freestyle Libre that way I at least have something while I learn to prick blood rather than not knowing. Jasmine has had one before but I'm curious about their accuracy or if it will lead to false numbers. Thank you in advance for your opinions and advice.
 
Do what works for you and Jasmine. I had to stop using them. My cat hated going to the vet to replace the faulty ones. I put his last one on myself and it didn't last 2 days, but it also would be anywhere from 30-100 points off from my handheld meter. Both are human meters. We have people in the forum that use them. Most of those people also have handheld ones too to cross reference with.
 
You can check this out
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...stration-explanations-tips-discussion.221630/


Also this link too
About the Freestyle Libre
Tap on the blue link , there is a discussion about it
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-diagnosed-with-diabetes.274874/#post-3051322

I found this written by another member
I had the Libre it’s very easy to use but from what I know it’s a temporary use . The sensor is suppose to last for 14 days but rarely does , I got 9 days out of my first sensor before it had to be replaced . Here are you Pros and Cons
Pros - Once on very easy to read . You can read anytime . You can you the reader or your cell phone . The sensor reads BG every 15 minutes on it own but you still have to wave your reader or cell phone to get a reading
and your Vet can access through a computer watching day through the night .
Cons - The sensor is put on with surgical glue some kitties can have a reaction to the glue .
You have to cross your fingers your cat will keep the sensor on and not scratch it off .
The sensor may not last for 14 days and are about $ 40.00 dollars to replace .
If you can’t use your cell phone to read the sensor the reader is about $65.00 dollars


Found this also
Recommend that you join the Freestyle Libre for dogs and cats FB group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/libreforpets
 
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Peter --

If you need a hand with dosing, it would be helpful if you could get a spreadsheet set up and if you have any blood glucose data, fill it in. We are very numbers driven. Most of us are reticent to give dosing recommendations without seeing what your cat's blood glucose levels looks like. To be honest, it's also the best way for you to be in control of what's going on with Jasmine's diabetes so you can make informed decisions. I'm tagging Bhooma (@Bandit's Mom) in case you need help with getting a spreadsheet set up.

I'm also going to dump a lot of information on you so you can ask questions when dealing with the vets and so you can do what you can at home. You have been incredibly observant about getting Jasmine in to see the vet when it was critical to do so.

The dilemma here is the ketones vs lower blood glucose (BG). First, ketones are nasty and they can recur with little warning. Some cats are just more prone to developing them than others and the period immediately after an episode of DKA is a vulnerable time. What also makes them a headache is that there is diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) and euglycemic DKA. The latter occurs when your cat's blood glucose levels are normal vs DKA where the numbers are generally high. We've seen more instances of DKA than euglycemic DKA. The basic recipe for all DKA involves an infection or inflammation + not enough insulin + not enough calories. I am wondering if a source of infection/inflammation has been ruled out. Even something like gingivitis (inflammation of the gums due to tartar build-up) or pancreatitis (not uncommon in diabetic cats) or a urinary tract infection could be contributing.

Chances are that Jasmine was not ready to have her insulin discontinued or that she was experiencing euglycemic DKA. We tend to use different parameters for when a cat is ready to stop insulin. If you've had a chance to look at the Lantus sticky notes, the dosing methods post discusses when and how to reduce insulin. The parameters we use (at least for Tight Regulation and the other method poaches that information) are based on published research. Most vets consider normal blood glucose levels "too low" for a diabetic cat -- even a cat going into remission. In part, this is a matter of their not telling their clients that home testing is a good idea. They tend to keep cats in a higher BG range than what is normal for a non-diabetic. (It would be like telling a human that it's OK to have their blood pressure at 160/90 and you don't need medication. It's not OK.) Those higher ranges also mean that you're not calling your vet because your cat is hypoglycemic but it's costing you for emergency vet visits and hospitalizations and it's causing a huge amount of stress for you and your cat.

Getting Jasmine to eat is also a factor. Ketones develop because your cat isn't getting enough calories and as a result, is metabolizing stored fat. The fat metabolic process causes ketones to be produced. I would suggest higher calorie foods or talking to the vet about an appetite stimulant (e.g., mirtazepine) if Jasmine isn't eating well. Ketones can also make your cat feel lousy. An anti-nausea medication (e.g., Cerenia or ondansetron) may help. If your cat is nauseated, you want to give the anti-nausea medication prior to an appetite stimulant. Also, getting as much water as possible into your cat can help. Adding water to her food is one way to do that. Water helps to dilute and flush the ketones out of her system.
 
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Sounds like the ER visits are a result of trying to find the balance between too high an insulin dose (causing hypo) and too little - which can set you up for ketones. For Jasmine, it is going to be important to home test so we can dial in what insulin dose she needs, at a particular time. Note, insulin dose requirements can and do change with cats, so there will always be some fine tuning. If you are at all technical, it's not that hard to do oneself.

We have several people who have had success with the Freestyle Libre, and also some failures. You just have to try and see if it works for your cat. Knowing how to home test with a meter is a good skill to have, in case the Libre dies or kitty gets it off. You don't need to use a pet meter - they are too expensive. Plus our dosing methods were all written with human meters, before the pet meters were invented and heavily marketed.
 
Pros - Once on very easy to read . You can read anytime . You can you the reader or your cell phone . The sensor reads BG every 15 minutes on it own but you still have to wave your reader or cell phone to get a reading
and your Vet can access through a computer watching day through the night .
Cons - The sensor is put on with surgical glue some kitties can have a reaction to the glue .
Now the Libre 2 sensor in some countries automatically sends BGs to your phone app when within range (20 ft); no periodic scanning required The countries include UK and Canada and I think Australia. The Libre 3 automatically sends BGs to your phone.
Do not uses surgical/tissue glue. It is unnecessary and messes up the skin when the sensor is removed. The FB group referenced contains all the info need to successfully attach a Libre that lasts for the full 14 days. Mu Merle currently has one that was attached on Christmas.
 
Just a quick update on Jasmine. After skipping the dose last night due to lack of appetite (she did end up eating some more food later in the evning) she got a 1/2 unit glargine at 10am, her Bgs at the 3:30 visit were low 300's and no ketones present. They did not have any libres so I'll have to wait on that or take to my other vet to install but they had a tech walk me through steps for getting blood. Hopefully with the links provided in this forum + the visual walk through I can successfully get some readings in the next few days. I just want to thank everyone for their support over the past few days.
 
I always had to pick up the libre from the pharmacy and take it to my vet. If they didn't suggest that, they may not usually install them. I may take it my vet that has installed them.

I'm glad she's eating better amd no presence of ketones.

You've got this, Pete. Jasmine, keep improving girl.
 
I am wondering if a source of infection/inflammation has been ruled out. Even something like gingivitis (inflammation of the gums due to tartar build-up) or pancreatitis (not uncommon in diabetic cats) or a urinary tract infection could be contributing.
The Internist mentioned that she suspects possible pancreatitis but they have been unable to detect it. They did check for uti, kidney disease and other infections and so far everything has come back negative. Gingivitis may be something they overlooked but I'm not sure if they ruled that out or not.
 
When testing for pancreatitis, timing is everything. If you are early in the process, you get a false negative. Take a look at the lab results to make sure that the vet ordered a Spec fPL or did a Snap fPL in the office. This is a link to our Primer on Pancreatitis. It give a list of symptoms that may be helpful.

One of our long time members mentioned there's a Facebook group for pet Libre users. You may find that helpful, as well. I'm not a member and it's a closed group.
 
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