New member Nov 2, 2023 for our sugarcat Sputnik

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Sputnik & Jill & Darwin

Sputnik & Jill & Darwin

Member Since 2023
Hi all,

We have been following the facebook group for this and was told it would be helpful to join this message board. We've been doing everything recommended there, but live remotely (Cortes Island, BC), so can't access vet care in short time.

We are using a pet meter to measure BG and caninsulin.

We will be switching to Lantus as per advice on the FB group, at the earliest opportunity. We are the 2-week mark in using insulin and I have the spreadsheet filled out.

Looking for dosing advice. Thanks in advance!

Jill
 

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That's two ferry rides away from the nearest vet and I doubt you could call out the ferry in the middle of the night for an animal. You will need to have lots of strips for your hypo kit on hand.

I'll leave it to other, more experienced people, to give dosing advice. Just wanted to say 'welcome.' I grew up just north of Qualicum.
@Wendy&Neko
@Suzanne & Darcy

Bye-the-bye, pet strips can be crazy expensive in Canada. Human meter strips are just under half the cost.
 
Can you link the spreadsheet to your signature? If you’re using the FB template, it’s different to than what we use here.

Here is the helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
 
Welcome to FDMB. I may have been one of the FB members that recommended you to join here also. You may want to get a human meter also for testing. As mentioned above, the strips for the pet meter are expensive and not easily available. With a human meter, if you get low on strips you should be able to buy more at your local pharmacy. You do not want to be unable to test in the event of an emergency. Also if you have an emergency or urgent question, please post them on this board too. Since we have members all over the world, someone is usually online that may can help you.

Please ask any questions you have about caring for your cat. We have a lot of members with experience in dealing with multiple medical issues our cats can have in addition to feline diabetes. There is also a lot of information on insulin, diet and home testing here.
 
We already bought a human meter to use once our pet strips are done. Thank you for this advice.

We are switching to Lantus tonight (our pharmacy just got it for us). Do we use the same amount (i.e., 1 unit twice a day)?
 
Jillian Lang said:
We already bought a human meter to use once our pet strips are done. Thank you for this advice.

We are switching to Lantus tonight (our pharmacy just got it for us). Do we use the same amount (i.e., 1 unit twice a day)?
Click to expand...
@Wendy&Neko
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Suzanne & Darcy
@tiffmaxee

I see you said you will continue to use the pet meter until you use up all the test strips
When you start to use the human meter let us know

Do you have the U-100 syringes with half unit markings for lantus?
We adjust the doses by 0.25 units at a time
Jillian once you switch to lantus and ate done using the pet meter the last 2 color codings will need to be changed to reflect a human meter, also in your signature you need to put lantus and the date you started using it, , name of the human meter
On your SS where you have Caninsulin puts / lantus and date and the human meter
Then if you can put a blank line above the date you start lantus and just put Switched to lantus and highlight it so members can spot that

I'm going to tag Bhooma for you one of our wonderful members who can do all of this for you if you have trouble doing it when you switch to the human meter
Just let us know
When she see's this/she will send you a message in your inbox above
@Bandit's Mom

You may want to read all about lantus here , all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
 
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Insulin is usually switched one to one. Unless you are told otherwise by more experienced members, your starting dose is 1 unit twice a day.
I think people more experienced than myself will suggest an increase within a few days. Need to see what the numbers are once the Lantus depot builds.

Are you testing for ketones?
 
Hello from the metro Vancouver area. Been on Cortes a few times, visiting via sailboat. Lovely place to live. Saw lots of humpback whales around there.

What type/brand of syringes do you have for the Lantus? It has to be U-100 syringe (orange cap) vs U-40 used for Caninsulin. Want to make sure you got that part right or you'll be giving 2.5 times as much insulin if you use the U-40's (red cap).
 
ADMIN We overdosed our kitty by 2.5x because we used the red (U40) syringe instead of orange (U100) when we switched from Caninsulin to Lantus. But his numbers are ok, I think. We updated the spreadsheet, so could you please have a look and advise? We will keep testing him today to monitor things.

NB: The confusion arose because I had asked if it's the same amount. I meant volume, but the answers were for number of units (using an insulin specific syringe). Just thought I'd mention this misunderstanding in case it can help others.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello from the metro Vancouver area. Been on Cortes a few times, visiting via sailboat. Lovely place to live. Saw lots of humpback whales around there.

What type/brand of syringes do you have for the Lantus? It has to be U-100 syringe (orange cap) vs U-40 used for Caninsulin. Want to make sure you got that part right or you'll be giving 2.5 times as much insulin if you use the U-40's (red cap).
Click to expand...


Thank you! Yes, we did misunderstand that and overdosed him due to that. Thank you for this important clarification. Luckily, his BG numbers have been very high, so an increased dose was probably warranted, but this isn't the way to do it!
 
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Red & Rover (GA) said:
Insulin is usually switched one to one. Unless you are told otherwise by more experienced members, your starting dose is 1 unit twice a day.
I think people more experienced than myself will suggest an increase within a few days. Need to see what the numbers are once the Lantus depot builds.

Are you testing for ketones?
Click to expand...

I’m confused - do we use the same volume of Lantus as Caninsulin? We were dosing 1/20th of a 0.5cc red capped syringe = 0.025cc of Caninsulin.

One “unit” on that syringe, if I’m understanding the terminology correctly.

Thanks for listening!

Darwin
 
1 unit of Caninsulin is the same volume as 2.5 units of Lantus. If you use the orange capped U-100 syringes, you will see it is a smaller syringe than the U-40 syringe. You want to switch to the same number of units, ie. 1 unit of Lantus on a U-100 syringe if using 1 units of Caninsulin with a U-40 syringe. If you are still using the red capped U-40 syringes to dispense the Lantus, please mark the spreadsheet as 2.5 unit per dose when you switched to Lantus, not 1 unit. You can buy BD Ultrafine II insulin syringes in most pharmacies. You want the ones with the purple and yellow markings on the box. As soon as you can, please get the new syringes. You can also buy them on line.

In the mean time, if you have to still use the red capped U-40 syringes, please dose as 0.5 units on those syringes. That'll mean the equivalent of 1.25 units of Lantus, and might be OK until you get the proper syringes. I think 2.5 units of Lantus is too much insulin. You see how he got down to 120 last night, that leads me to believe he got even lower overnight.

A cat's body can react to low blood sugar numbers by doing what we call a bounce, which produces temporary higher numbers. As a result, we determine how to change the Lantus dose based on how low the dose takes the cat. This is the definition of a bounce:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Does you pet meter provide numbers in mg/dL or mmol/L? If the later, you can just enter those numbers on the World tab of the spreadsheet, and it will automatically covert to mg/dL for you.
 
ADMIN Ok, I think we've caught up with what you are saying now. We changed insulin type and then the meter (as per your recommendations), so it's been confusing (especially since we are new to this). I put all info about insulin and meter in the signature as you requested. Also put lines in the spreadsheet to indicate these things.

The newest issue we're dealing with is the new meter is in different units than the pet meter. So, we're not sure the spreadsheet is working as designed. Can you please take a look at it and advise?

Based on Googles conversions, we think his numbers are too low to give insulin right now (i.e., his 9pm dose). So, we're skipping this one. Please let me know if you concur.

Thanks in advance... and in the past! <3
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
1 unit of Caninsulin is the same volume as 2.5 units of Lantus. If you use the orange capped U-100 syringes, you will see it is a smaller syringe than the U-40 syringe. You want to switch to the same number of units, ie. 1 unit of Lantus on a U-100 syringe if using 1 units of Caninsulin with a U-40 syringe. If you are still using the red capped U-40 syringes to dispense the Lantus, please mark the spreadsheet as 2.5 unit per dose when you switched to Lantus, not 1 unit. You can buy BD Ultrafine II insulin syringes in most pharmacies. You want the ones with the purple and yellow markings on the box. As soon as you can, please get the new syringes. You can also buy them on line.

In the mean time, if you have to still use the red capped U-40 syringes, please dose as 0.5 units on those syringes. That'll mean the equivalent of 1.25 units of Lantus, and might be OK until you get the proper syringes. I think 2.5 units of Lantus is too much insulin. You see how he got down to 120 last night, that leads me to believe he got even lower overnight.

A cat's body can react to low blood sugar numbers by doing what we call a bounce, which produces temporary higher numbers. As a result, we determine how to change the Lantus dose based on how low the dose takes the cat. This is the definition of a bounce:
Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Does you pet meter provide numbers in mg/dL or mmol/L? If the later, you can just enter those numbers on the World tab of the spreadsheet, and it will automatically covert to mg/dL for you.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the information, much appreciated! This is a steep learning curve for me, as I don't have any experience with using syringes and I thought a "unit" was a standard volume independent of which syringe you used. Jillian Lang and I are partners, looking after Sputnik. We gave him 2.5x as much Lantus as we were giving him of Caninsulin for his first 4 shots after switching to Lantus before being sorted out on that error here.

Our spreadsheet is a bit of a mess, as we've switched insulins, and also now from a pet meter to a human meter. His pre-shot measurement tonight was 3.9 mmol/L (70 mg/dL) so we're not giving him the shot. I've started a new spreadsheet.

Cheers
 
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When you are first new, we recommend not giving insulin if he's below 200 (11.1). So correct, no insulin tonight, and you need to reduce the dose tomorrow. That 3.9 means the dose was too high.

I'm going to tag Bhooma @Bandit's Mom to see if she can help you get the spreadsheet sorted.

Nice to meet the other half of team Sputnick. :) I used to faint at the sight of blood, testing and syringes were way out of my comfort zone at first too.
 
Darwin Olmstead said:
Our spreadsheet is a bit of a mess, as we've switched insulins, and also now from a pet meter to a human meter. His pre-shot measurement tonight was 3.9 mmol/L (70 mg/dL) so we're not giving him the shot. I've started a new spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
Hi and welcome to FDMB :-)

I can't see the New Spreadsheet - it says Access Denied. I can help combine the spreadsheets and also incorporate the change in insulins as well as meters. I see you've also switched to mmol/L. Was the pet meter reading in mg/dl or were you converting to mg/dl manually? If you follow mmol/L, you would enter the values in the World (mmol/L) tab and the values in the US (md/dl) are automatically populated.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Hi and welcome to FDMB :)

I can't see the New Spreadsheet - it says Access Denied. I can help combine the spreadsheets and also incorporate the change in insulins as well as meters. I see you've also switched to mmol/L. Was the pet meter reading in mg/dl or were you converting to mg/dl manually? If you follow mmol/L, you would enter the values in the World (mmol/L) tab and the values in the US (md/dl) are automatically populated.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help. I've changed the permissions on the new spreadsheet - it should be viewable now.

The pet meter gave readings in mg/dL, the human meter is in mmol/L. In the new spreadsheet, I've entered the values on the second tab.

Cheers,
 
Darwin Olmstead said:
Thanks for your help. I've changed the permissions on the new spreadsheet - it should be viewable now.

The pet meter gave readings in mg/dL, the human meter is in mmol/L. In the new spreadsheet, I've entered the values on the second tab.

Cheers,
Click to expand...
Hi Darwin and Jill
looking at your spreadsheet I noticed you have two dates for Nov 5th, you have no Nov 6th

Also on the US tab where you have 3.9 (70} and 9.1 ( 163 . can you change them to US numbers ? Thanks :cat:

Have you read about Lantus ,especially which dosing method you want to choose to follow?
They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed, when you decide can you add it to your signature and also on your spreadsheet up top
Read all the yellow stickys about Lantus here
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
 
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Thank you! I changed Sputnik's SS to have only one Nov 5 line. Can you please combine the spreadsheets in any way that makes sense to you? Then we'll just continue on however you ask us to. Thank you so much for all of this help!
 
Jillian Lang said:
Thank you! I changed Sputnik's SS to have only one Nov 5 line. Can you please combine the spreadsheets in any way that makes sense to you? Then we'll just continue on however you ask us to. Thank you so much for all of this help!
Click to expand...


Hi I see Bhooma said in her post #25
I can see it now :) You want to add the readings from the time you started Lantus, so anyone looking at the SS knows that this only your 4th day on Lantus.

Would you like me to combine the spreadsheets?
Only because I have no clue what you are talking about lol
She's great at spreadsheets
I'll tag her for you ok
Have you decided on what dosing method you want to follow yet?
@Bandit's Mom
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi I see Bhooma said in her post #25
I can see it now :) You want to add the readings from the time you started Lantus, so anyone looking at the SS knows that this only your 4th day on Lantus.

Would you like me to combine the spreadsheets?
Only because I have no clue what you are talking about lol
She's great at spreadsheets
I'll tag her for you ok
Have you decided on what dosing method you want to follow yet?
@Bandit's Mom
Click to expand...
Yes please. Combine them if that helps you guys understand what’s going on. Thank you!
 
Jillian Lang said:
Can you please combine the spreadsheets in any way that makes sense to you? Then we'll just continue on however you ask us to. Thank you so much for all of this help!
Click to expand...
I have sent you a request for edit access to your SS. It will come to the gmail account associated with the SS. Check the spam folder as well since it sometimes goes straight there! :-)
 
Jillian Lang said:
Yes please. Combine them if that helps you guys understand what’s going on. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Made the changes to the SS. Please take a look and if you'd like to change anything, please do so. :-)
You can now take off the edit access.

From today, you can enter the data in mmol/L in the World sheet and the data in the US sheet will be populated automatically.
 
@Darwin Olmstead
Hi Darwin , just wondering if you got the U-100 syringes with the half unit marking yet?
When you read the yellow stickys about lantus , you will see there are 2 dosing methods to choose from either SLGS or TR. They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed. When you decide please add it to your signature and your spreadsheet up top.

bd_320440__64513-1520533063-jpg.66488
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Darwin Olmstead
Hi Darwin , just wondering if you got the U-100 syringes with the half unit marking yet?
When you read the yellow stickys about lantus , you will see there ate 2 dosing methods to choose from either SLGS or TR. They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed. When you decide please add it to your signature and your spreadsheet up top.

bd_320440__64513-1520533063-jpg.66488
Click to expand...
Hi Dianne,

No, not yet. We'll likely have to wait until one of us is in town (we're on a remote island, 2 ferries away from the closest city). I found these on Amazon, but they're not exactly the same.

81UYTDi4oZL._SL1500_.jpg


613woe37wxL._SL1080_.jpg


Cheers,
 
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Darwin Olmstead said:
Hi Dianne,

No, not yet. We'll likely have to wait until one of us is in town (we're on a remote island, 2 ferries away from the closest city). I found these on Amazon, but they're not exactly the same.

81UYTDi4oZL._SL1500_.jpg


613woe37wxL._SL1080_.jpg


Cheers,
Click to expand...

These look fine from Amazon
https://www.amazon.ca/Elimedical-Veterinary-Insulin-Shipping-03V2913B/dp/B07H5QT4K4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1Q1LK04DBIHSB&keywords=U-100 ultra-fine&qid=1699382203&sprefix=u-100 ultra-fine,aps,165&sr=8-1
Here is the pic of them
419IHJwKjSL._SY445_.jpg


81UYTDi4oZL._SX425_.jpg
 
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Darwin Olmstead said:
Hi Dianne,

No, not yet. We'll likely have to wait until one of us is in town (we're on a remote island, 2 ferries away from the closest city). I found these on Amazon, but they're not exactly the same.

81UYTDi4oZL._SL1500_.jpg


613woe37wxL._SL1080_.jpg


Cheers,
Click to expand...
Hi @Darwin Olmstead
since you are still using the U-40 syringes for lantus I would note that in the remarks section on the spreadsheet ,have you read what @Wendy&Neko said in her post #18 Edi . then don't add what I said to add this in the remarks section of your SS. Don't want to screw you up :cat:

In the mean time, if you have to still use the red capped U-40 syringes, please dose as 0.5 units on those syringes. That'll mean the equivalent of 1.25 units of Lantus, and might be OK until you get the proper syringes.

I know you and Wendy has been helping you about the syringes, Wendy I just wanted to tag you to be sure that Darwin is giving the correct dose using the U-40 syringes ,since he's waiting on his order from Amazon for the U-100 syringes

As you know I know nothing about this lol
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
These look fine from Amazon
https://www.amazon.ca/Elimedical-Veterinary-Insulin-Shipping-03V2913B/dp/B07H5QT4K4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1Q1LK04DBIHSB&keywords=U-100 ultra-fine&qid=1699382203&sprefix=u-100 ultra-fine,aps,165&sr=8-1
Click to expand...

Thanks, those are the ones I tried to upload pics of - I'll order a box today!

Strange about the pictures, I could see them in my browser when I loaded them as a link but if I tried dragging & dropping or uploading the file it said I couldn't do it.

Thanks again,
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi @Darwin Olmstead
since you are still using the U-40 syringes for lantus have you read what @Wendy&Neko said in her post #18

In the mean time, if you have to still use the red capped U-40 syringes, please dose as 0.5 units on those syringes. That'll mean the equivalent of 1.25 units of Lantus, and might be OK until you get the proper syringes.
Click to expand...
Yes, the info in #18 was very valuable! We have been using the U-40s at 0.5 units for the last 3 shots.
 
I just wanted to let you know that we spent a lot of time with the vet today and everything you say on this forum is what they suggest. I'm sure you already know this.

Also, we checked into a drug called Phenylpropanolamin for the urinary incontinence, but they said that the risk of high blood pressure in a cat with so many issues already rules that out as a good option. The Lantus is our best bet for getting that under control and only time will tell as we aren't "there" yet. Also, the urinary incontinence could be neurological and/or due to age and just not able to be helped.

Just thought I'd update on where we're at. Thank you for all you do for all of us!
 
ADMIN We just completed a curve. We did get and are using the U100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings. Can use you please give us some dosing advice? Thanks in advance!
 
Jillian Lang said:
ADMIN We just completed a curve. We did get and are using the U100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings. Can use you please give us some dosing advice? Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
I can tag some members for you that should be around at this hour to look at your curve
Also is there anyway you can get a more tests in during the day and night cycle , just not doing a curve
@Bandit's Mom
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
Jillian Lang said:
Also, we checked into a drug called Phenylpropanolamin for the urinary incontinence, but they said that the risk of high blood pressure in a cat with so many issues already rules that out as a good option. The Lantus is our best bet for getting that under control and only time will tell as we aren't "there" yet. Also, the urinary incontinence could be neurological and/or due to age and just not able to be helped.
Click to expand...
I do not have experience with urinary incontinence, but I do know that some diabetic cats pee in other places because they can't get to the litter box due to neuropathy. Is Sputnik having any issues with hind leg neuropathy? How long has he had incontinence?


Jillian Lang said:
ADMIN We just completed a curve. We did get and are using the U100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings. Can use you please give us some dosing advice? Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Looks like he might have been bouncing today so the curve yielded high and flat numbers. Which is why we suggest spot checks to see if you can catch lows from which he is bouncing. I think you can take his dose up to 1.5U. Even with SLGS you do not hold a dose more than a week if the numbers aren't where you want them to be.
 
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