Bouncing Beau

Sharon555

Sharon555

Active Member
I hope this worked!

Yes! This has been a very strange cycle today. Last night was also a little odd with the 203 @ 6.5 and then an AMPS of 130. With the 246 he just had at +8, I hope he doesn’t go much higher to finish the day. I just wish we could get back to some consistency again.
 
Sharon555 said:
I hope this worked!

Yes! This has been a very strange cycle today. Last night was also a little odd with the 203 @ 6.5 and then an AMPS of 130. With the 246 he just had at +8, I hope he doesn’t go much higher to finish the day. I just wish we could get back to some consistency again.
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Definitely things are a little wacky. We need to see if we can figure out why. But the good news is that Beau is doing great overall.
 
I’m going to copy the post I made to the Feline Diabetes group when FDMB was down.
It was a stressful afternoon, to say the least. We made it through and ended up at 275 at @ +9. I’m assuming it was from the 15% carb FF gravy, as well as bouncing from his super low numbers.

Is there anything I could/should have done differently?

I guess Beau has now earned a dose reduction to 3U.


https://www.facebook.com/groups/felinediabetes/permalink/10160848176310202/
 
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What did you feed today and when? When he was at 68, did he get food? What kind?
ETA: I read through your notes and the only thing I think I would have done differently is that I would have gone for the HC gravy type food as soon as he was below 50. 15-20 percent. You did very well, and I am proud of you! Beau is a lucky boy to have you.
 
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
What did you feed today and when? When he was at 68, did he get food? What kind?
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He started the day with his usual LC FF food. At +4 and 68, he ate more of his usual LC. I tried feeding him at +2, but he wasn’t interested. At +5.25, when he tested 47, he got more LC with a drop of Karo. Thirty min later, at +6 he was 46 and he had more LC without any Karo. I was concerned at +6.5 because he dropped to 43. I fed him the gravy from a 15% FF, along with another drop of Karo. At +7, he was up to 50 so I didn’t feed him anymore. Then 74 @ +7.5
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
What did you feed today and when? When he was at 68, did he get food? What kind?
ETA: I read through your notes and the only thing I think I would have done differently is that I would have gone for the HC gravy type food as soon as he was below 50. 15-20 percent. You did very well, and I am proud of you! Beau is a lucky boy to have you.
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Thank you for that input. I’ll do that next time. I wasn’t sure if I should do the HC, or the Karo added to his usual LC.

When I look back at the last couple of weeks after the reduction to 3.25, it looks like it just took his body awhile to adjust and finally get used to it.

In addition, he was up to 275 at +9. I guess that’s due to both the HC food this afternoon and a bounce from that big drop to 43.

We’ll start that reduction to 3U tonight.
 
Sharon555 said:
He started the day with his usual LC FF food. At +4 and 68, he ate more of his usual LC. I tried feeding him at +2, but he wasn’t interested. At +5.25, when he tested 47, he got more LC with a drop of Karo. Thirty min later, at +6 he was 46 and he had more LC without any Karo. I was concerned at +6.5 because he dropped to 43. I fed him the gravy from a 15% FF, along with another drop of Karo. At +7, he was up to 50 so I didn’t feed him anymore. Then 74 @ +7.5
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You did great. I just think I would have moved to the HC 15/20+ foods when he first went lime. But it seems evident that Beau needs a reduction. So that is a good thing!
 
Also, he had nadirs of 50 both yesterday and the day before. I thought he might drop into lime then, but he didn’t, so I was a little surprised. And I didn’t do anything to intervene, just fed him some of his usual LC.
 
Sharon555 said:
Also, he had nadirs of 50 both yesterday and the day before. I thought he might drop into lime then, but he didn’t, so I was a little surprised. And I didn’t do anything to intervene, just fed him some of his usual LC.
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Exactly, you did right. If he doesn’t drop below 50 he doesn’t earn the reduction— and he didn’t drop below 50 the last few days even though you only gave LC… so I really can see how today’s activity took you by surprise. Beau just decided that he needed a reduction! Congratulations on the reduction. :D
 
Well, we’ve been on quite a rollercoaster ride since dropping into lime day before yesterday. Following a 90 at +8 early this morning (I just happened to test him when I woke up), he had an AMPS of 97. I shot the new dose of 3U. I fed his usual LC at 2.5 when he tested 65. He then surprised me with 47 at +4, after which I fed him some HC (15%). Just tested at +5 and he’s up to 57.

Do I need to reduce dosage yet again, so soon? Or should I wait to see what he does the next few cycles? This is definitely a new situation for us.
 
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Yes. Please do reduce again down to 2.75 units. If he has that low of a preshot again like this morning, consider a reduced dose.
 
Good job today. The only thing I think I would have done differently would be that, when he got a 65 that early in the cycle (at +2.5) I would have gone ahead and fed a higher carb food because it was so early in the cycle and he had a lot of time for the insulin to be at its peak and push him down lower. I probably would have gone with a medium carb of around 15 percent. And I would retest in 30 minutes. Now when he hit the lime green, I would have given HC of 20 percent or so and maybe a drop of karo syrup as well. But most importantly is to retest in 20-30 minutes after giving HC when they’re in limes — to make sure that the BG is stable or rising.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Good job today. The only thing I think I would have done differently would be that, when he got a 65 that early in the cycle (at +2.5) I would have gone ahead and fed a higher carb food because it was so early in the cycle and he had a lot of time for the insulin to be at its peak and push him down lower. I probably would have gone with a medium carb of around 15 percent. And I would retest in 30 minutes. Now when he hit the lime green, I would have given HC of 20 percent or so and maybe a drop of karo syrup as well. But most importantly is to retest in 20-30 minutes after giving HC when they’re in limes — to make sure that the BG is stable or rising.
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OK. So, I’ll reduce again tonight to 2.75u.
I’ll remember that when we get a lower number so early in the cycle, as we did this morning, that I’ll feel him some HC. It makes sense.

We haven’t yet tested PMPS, but he did jump to 252 at +10. I’m hoping he hasn’t gone too much higher.
 
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How do you think Beau is doing? We are 6 cycles in after the second reduction, dropping him to 2.75. He did have a surprising drop into green last night, but we’ve had so much pink and yellow. I know his body has been going through a lot between two drops into lime, two reductions in 3 days and bouncing. He’s been all over the place. Should we have stayed at 3U? Do I need to be more patient and wait a few more cycles to see where he settles in? I’m just a little stressed and worried about where he is right now.
 
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Hi Sharron! Me again. You probably were hoping to hear from someone else!

Anyway, Beau hasn’t been doing too badly with the blues and the greens. Remember that we must be mindful of how low a particular dose is taking our cats and not just look at the preshot numbers. Having said that, I understand that we are talking about your special boy Beau here and not just numbers and colors on a spreadsheet! It can be emotionally taxing and stressful to see those colors on the spreadsheet, because we want the very best for our sweet cats! Believe me, I get that! Last night’s cycle was excellent, and he came very close to having a green nadir today. Since he had a green nadir last night, do you think you could wait a few more cycles to see how he does? You can always go back up. It’s not unusual to have cats bounce back and forth between doses either. You did do the right thing to reduce his dose the second time.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Hi Sharron! Me again. You probably were hoping to hear from someone else!

Anyway, Beau hasn’t been doing too badly with the blues and the greens. Remember that we must be mindful of how low a particular dose is taking our cats and not just look at the preshot numbers. Having said that, I understand that we are talking about your special boy Beau here and not just numbers and colors on a spreadsheet! It can be emotionally taxing and stressful to see those colors on the spreadsheet, because we want the very best for our sweet cats! Believe me, I get that! Last night’s cycle was excellent, and he came very close to having a green nadir today. Since he had a green nadir last night, do you think you could wait a few more cycles to see how he does? You can always go back up. It’s not unusual to have cats bounce back and forth between doses either. You did do the right thing to reduce his dose the second time.
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Thank you for responding. I am always very happy to hear from you. You’ve always been very helpful and encouraging. Your advice keeps me going and helps me stay calm and think with my brain and not my heart.

Beau did come very close to having a green nadir today, which was encouraging. Then he jumps up to a PMPS of 313, which caused me to burst into tears. I’ll keep him where he is for several more cycles, which I did feel was probably the right thing to do. I know his body has been through a lot the last several days and I’m sure it needs time to adjust. I guess as long as we either have or flirt with greens, I should be happy.
 
@Suzanne & Darcy Well, here we are 2 weeks later. I hung on for a few more cycles after the reduction to 2.75u and was happy I did because things leveled out. We’ve had lots of blue and green with a handful of really good cycles. Most bouncing has been not too high and quickly resolved. This morning I was surprised by a 48 at 5.5 after a 115 at +4. So, we’ll do another reduction, down to 2.5u. I’m a little nervous because Beau has still had several yellows, mostly at PMPS and early in the PM cycle. And then there were those dreaded pinks.
I would like to know your opinion on where we’ve been the last couple of weeks and where today finds us, if you don’t mind.
 
Well, yes that 48 is just under 50, but you did the right thing. You can always go back up again if it looks like he needs that. The nice thing is that you are following MPM so you won't have to wait a week. You can wait six cycles or a few more if you need to and then increase back up. Sometimes cats will go back and forth between doses a bit (frustrating, isn't it?)
 
I like all that green on his spreadsheet for the last several weeks. You must have absolute nerves of steel shooting those low numbers. But Beau doesn't seem to be a diver and he has hit green and for the most part stayed there for a long time during the cycles.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I like all that green on his spreadsheet for the last several weeks. You must have absolute nerves of steel shooting those low numbers. But Beau doesn't seem to be a diver and he has hit green and for the most part stayed there for a long time during the cycles.
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Yes, once he settled in after several cycles, we had lots of blue and green. That made me happy. Anytime he did drop lower and spike, he cleared it pretty quickly. I was definitely surprised by that 48! Although that cycle full of pinks worried me. But his next cycle last night was yellow and now today, he seems to have cleared the spike and we have some blue. Now I can relax some. I’ll wait 6 to 8 cycles and see how he does. Hopefully he’ll stay mostly in the blues and have some greens. I would love to stay at this reduction, but if we lose the green nadirs I’ll move him back up.

I'm always a little nervous shooting the green, but, as you said, he doesn’t seem to be a diver. As long as his PS isn’t under 70 I feel pretty confident. I also keep a close eye on him, doing plenty of testing. Thanks to your advice, if he hits the 50s I give him some MC. For him, that’s 6 or 7%. It seems to keep him from dropping further.
 
Yes. Those pinks are just a bounce from a low number. His bounces seem to take a while to take effect and, fortunately, he starts to work his way back down after one cycle or so.

Technically, anything under 10 percent carbs is still considered low carb — but I often advise people to give what I call “higher end low carb food” meaning 7, 8, 9 percent. It depends on how carb-sensitive a cat is. That seems to work for Beau to keep him surfing in green. Good move.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. Those pinks are just a bounce from a low number. His bounces seem to take a while to take effect and, fortunately, he starts to work his way back down after one cycle or so.

Technically, anything under 10 percent carbs is still considered low carb — but I often advise people to give what I call “higher end low carb food” meaning 7, 8, 9 percent. It depends on how carb-sensitive a cat is. That seems to work for Beau to keep him surfing in green. Good move.[/QUOTE

Thanks! It’s one of the things we’ve learned.

We’ve just had a PMPS of 185, which pleases me. He spent all afternoon in the blues. I’m looking forward to seeing how he does at 2.5u.
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That was weird! My reply went rogue!

Anyway, using those “higher end low carbs” work well for Beau because of his sensitivity. Just one of those things we’ve learned along the way.

We are both happy to have spent the afternoon in the blues with a PMPS of 185.
I’m looking forward to seeing how he does with the reduction to 2.5u. :cool::D
 
Beau’s nighttime cycles after the reduction to 2.5 were decent with blue, but he had only one green nadir. I kept hoping his daytime cycles would improve once they were steadily yellow, but they have crept up steadily without a blue in sight. I think it’s clear that I need to increase his dosage back up to 2.75. He’s just not ready for 2.5.
 
Here we are 10 days into the reduction to 2.75. His nighttime cycles have been good, mostly green nadirs. But the daytime cycles have me baffled. We did have a couple hiccups, but other than that, they are much higher than the nighttime cycles. Like today, starting at 116, then 290 and 317. Such big jumps and nothing different about the day. And he didn’t drop that low last night. Any thoughts?
 
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He seems to bounce a lot after he hits green. He doesn’t stay high long usually, but he definitely is bouncy lately. Very frustrating. However, he is spending a lot of time in good numbers, particularly in his nighttime cycles. So that’s the positive.
I see you have an FIP kitty to treat. Are you using the GS-441524? I have a friend who just cured two fosters of FIP. I have another friend whose cat has ocular FIP, was doing well, but relapsed.
 
He is definitely bouncing more than usual, I think, which is frustrating. But I am very encouraged by those nighttime greens. If he could only hit them during the day. You know how I am, I just worry about how those higher numbers, even yellows, affect how he feels. We’ll just keep plugging along. I’m not even thinking his dose needs to be increased. I know that would just push him too low.

I am treating a former foster for wet FIP. The adopter found out he had wet FIP on Monday. She “just can’t handle” treating him, so I drove over two hours to pick him up Tuesday morning. She’s deciding if she wants him back when treatment is over or turn him over to us. I have a feeling she doesn’t want him; doesn’t want to deal with it. He’s only 6 months old. Sweet Jasper would be better off with me.

I treated one of my fosters last year for dry FIP. It turned out she was resistant to the GS and went through 120 days of treatment, then relapsed. She was then on a pill treatment, molnuvirapir, for another 84 days. She did amazingly well on the pills. She completed her 84 day observation and was adopted by a friend. It’s been a year since she was adopted and she’s very healthy.
 
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