17 year old cat diagnosed diabetic

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kujo

Member Since 2023
Hi, I’m new here and was hoping for some advice, assurance.

My cat has been diagnosed with diabetes 2 months ago. He lost 500 grams before diagnosis and has now put it all back on since being given Caninsulin, 3 units in the morning and 2 units at night. His coat looks amazing now also. He does still have quite high readings though so he should be on 3 units day and night which we did try a few weeks back. I need to go back to get another blood glucose reader attached to him and we will then trial the 3 units day and night again.

He still has a ferocious appetite and I am feeding him 4 little cans per day (diabetic and low carb food)I have taken him off dry food completely hence why I think he has such a big appetite (diabetes is also responsible for this of course). He used to graze on dry food all day so he has struggled with the dry being taken away!

As I mentioned earlier, the vet tried him on 3 units of Caninsulin both day and night and his numbers often dropped into a good reading but I was concerned as he sometimes did go quite low and I realise he won’t be able to have a blood glucose monitor attached to him forever. I realise that 3 units twice daily is probably his ideal dose and may reduce his hunger cravings and get him into good glucose readings but I’m just scared as I hate not being able to monitor the readings. What do you suggest? How did everyone get around this?
 
@kujo
Welcome I assume you don't live in the US since you are using Caninsulin , in the US it's called Vetsulin
Tap on the blue link
Here is the link so you can set up your signature and spreadsheet
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.


The signature is at the end of everyone's post in gray ,information about our cats
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Also almost all of us use human meters that's what our numbers are based on
If you have any BG readings you can enter them on the spreadsheet so the members can see what's going on

Just to show you about the Spreadsheet
Don't be nervous about the spreadsheet
About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers



You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

Vetsulin is not really a good insulin for cats. It is really a dog insulin and as a cat’s metabolism is much faster than a dogs, it does not last the 12 hours of a cycle. You would be much better to get either Lantus or Prozinc insulins, both of which are recommended for cats. They are longer lasting, more gentle insulins.

Re the feeding and food…are you giving the food 1/2 hour before the dose of insulin. This is important as vetsulin hits fast and the cat needs to have food aboard. And as the insulin works strongly for the first 4 or 5 hours, I would make your cat is getting at least 2 snacks of low carb food in during the first 4 hours after the dose…both cycles.
I would also feed him more than you are at the moment if he is still losing weight. Until a cat is regulated they can remain hungry and loss weight.

We also don't suggest giving different doses of insulin for each 12 hour cycle

If you need help setting up our spreadsheet just ask we have a member who will be happy to do it for you
 
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kujo said:
As I mentioned earlier, the vet tried him on 3 units of Caninsulin both day and night and his numbers often dropped into a good reading but I was concerned as he sometimes did go quite low and I realise he won’t be able to have a blood glucose monitor attached to him forever. I realise that 3 units twice daily is probably his ideal dose and may reduce his hunger cravings and get him into good glucose readings but I’m just scared as I hate not being able to monitor the readings. What do you suggest? How did everyone get around this?
Click to expand...
Sounds like you are use the Freestyle Libre which is actually a human meter
I would suggest you go buy a human meter and start to home test
You need to test first thing in the AM to be sure it's a safe number to shoot,Same goes for the PM cycle. You don't want to have a hypo on your hands.
Then get a few tests in during each 12 hour cycles,
If you can let us know where you live we can suggest a human meter to buy,
The test strips for a pet meter are too expensive and you will go through a lot
and if you do switch to Lantus we can suggest where to buy it
Most members us the generic version of Lantus since it's less expensive

Another thing we do not increase by whole units, we adjust the doses by 0.25 units at a time
That's why we buy syringes with half unit markings

A lowcarb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 5% carbs or lower
I have always fed Tyler either 2 or 3 % carbs, but that's just me


Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.
So ignore that
I have always used a human meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar


Learn how YOUR kitty is responding to insulin:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
  • How to do a Curve - a simple explanation
I suggest you set up your hypo kit in case you need to bring your cats BG up
For your Hypo kit
Med and High Carb food and some honey/karo
If you can get these where you live


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.
 
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kujo said:
He still has a ferocious appetite and I am feeding him 4 little cans per day (diabetic and low carb food)I have taken him off dry food completely hence why I think he has such a big appetite (diabetes is also responsible for this of course). He used to graze on dry food all day so he has struggled with the dry being taken away!
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@kujo
What is the name of the diabetic food and the name of the low carb food?

You might want to read about Vetsulin/Caninsulin here compared to Lantus or Prozinc
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

Lantus read all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

Prozinc
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

Just keep asking questions , if I can't answer them I can tag a few experienced members for you. My Tyler has been in remission since 1-24-21 and I know he wouldn't be in remission if I would have taken my vets advice. I took the advice from the experienced members here and got him in remission


Here are the guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of diabetes in both dogs and cats. the AAHA no longer recommends Caninsulin/Vetsulin for treating feline diabetes.
 
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Let's start over.

In the US, Caninsulin is marketed as Vetsulin. It is NOT Lantus (i.e., glargine) which is what Diane noted initially. (She has since edited her post.) In the UK and some of the other European countries and to some extent in Canada, vets have been required to prescribe Caninsuln as a first line choice since it is an insulin that was developed for animals (and if you guessed dogs from the name, you'd be correct) and not humans. There has been a relaxation of this in Canada since in most provinces, other insulin is available without a prescription. In the UK, vets can now prescribe Prozinc which is also an animal-specific insulin.

In the US, the guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn no longer recommends Canisulin/Vetsulin. The reason is just what you've been experiencing. It has a rapid and harsh onset and it does not provide adequate duration (i.e., it wears off) before the end of the 12-hour cycle due to a cat's fast metabolism. This translates to number dropping fast and hard. It also makes it more challenging to get a cat regulated on this particular insulin. That said, some cats can do well on Caninsulin. Depending on what your options are, you may want to discuss an insulin change with your vet. Many of the members here use Lantus or its generic version, glargine, or Prozinc.

There is not really an "ideal" dose of any insulin. In part, this can be due to cats having the potential to go into remission. Even with a cat that is tightly regulated, there may need to be adjustments or micro-adjustments made to the dose. Getting a glucometer will allow you to keep track of your cat's blood glucose level without having to have a continuous glucose monitor attached all the time. We are huge proponents of home testing. We can provide you with hometesting materials so you can learn how to test your cat's blood manually.

Not only do we hometest, most of the members here make dose changes independent of their vet. This is a link to the dosing guidelines we use for Caninsulin/Vetsulin.

If your kitty is not happy with only 2 meals per day, most of our members feed their cats several small meals during the day. There really is no need to only feed twice a day. However, with Caninsulin, you need to feed your cat, wait 20 - 20 min, and then give an insulin shot. Because this is a fast acting insulin, food needs to be on board in advance of a shot.

Please let us know how we can help.
 
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Your cat is likely still ravenous because its diabetes is still unregulated. If you’d be willing to set up a spreadsheet and plug in some of the numbers you’ve gotten with the libre, we can review and see where he’s at. Most vets make dose adjustments by full units while we do them by 1/4 units. It could be that your cat would do better on 2.5 x2 a day or even 2.75. We also make the dose adjustments based on how low the dose is taking your cat in a 12-hour cycle and not the preshot numbers. You’ve been given a lot of info here and I know it can be overwhelming so take your time digesting it.

as far as food, smaller meals throughout the day are easier on their pancreas and also help avoid big sugar spikes. Dry food is not good for any cats but especially diabetic cats. It’s too high carb for them. That’s like feeding your diabetic child a diet of chips, ice cream and sweets. Do you think you can transition him out of it and to wet food only? I wouldn’t do that until you’re either home testing or have a new libre on as it can drop their bg by 100 points or more.

With a diabetic cat you need:
  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins. As Sienne said, Vetsulin is no longer recommended in the US
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

FOOD CHART have a look on this chart and choose foods that are under 10%.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions!
 
Well the monitor is now attached. I fed him his usual early morning tin of fancy feast chicken, we got the monitor attached at 10am and the first reading came back as 14mmol/L p, an hour later it was 9 then 7 which is very good. I then fed him his mid afternoon feed and 2 hours later it was right up to 21 and then 27 before I gave him his next insulin shot. Am I making a mistake in feeding him tinned food mid afternoon. Should I just be giving him boiled chicken as an afternoon snack and only feeding him the tinned foods pre-insulin morning and night ?
 
kujo said:
Well the monitor is now attached. I fed him his usual early morning tin of fancy feast chicken, we got the monitor attached at 10am and the first reading came back as 14mmol/L p, an hour later it was 9 then 7 which is very good. I then fed him his mid afternoon feed and 2 hours later it was right up to 21 and then 27 before I gave him his next insulin shot. Am I making a mistake in feeding him tinned food mid afternoon. Should I just be giving him boiled chicken as an afternoon snack and only feeding him the tinned foods pre-insulin morning and night ?
Click to expand...
Morning, you can feed your cat either, if you feed the fancy feast you can give 2 teaspoons of it , as Ale said above
feeding smaller meals throughout the day are easier on their pancreas and also help avoid big sugar spikes.
Most members feed the snacks @+2 and +4. or @+3 and +5
Same for the night cycle
Glad you are using Lantus and not Caninsulin
Can you please set up your signature ,I gave you the instructions in my post #2 and explained how the spreadsheet works.
The help us help you link in my post #2 will explain how to set up our spreadsheet so you can track your cats BG . In case you ever need help we need to be able to see the spreadsheet
If you need help setting it up just ask, we have a member who will be happy to do it for you
 
The bg will go up and down throughout the day that’s normal and especially around meal times and as the insulin starts to wear off. That’s why we say to withhold the food at least two hours before the preshot tests, for you with the libre that means before the shots. That’s because we want to make sure those shot time bg numbers are not influenced by food and the dose is safe to give. Those are the only times you withhold food. Other than that, they can eat normally throughout the day.

If your cat is ravenous, it’s not yet regulated like I said on my previous post. We can help with that. if you could setup your spreadsheet, we’d be able to give you dosing advice. Do you need help with that?
 
So normally I give him 1 tin of low carb food at 5am, I will give insulin about 7am. I then give a half tin mid morning and the other half mid afternoon, followed by a tin for dinner about 5pm, insulin shot at 7pm and then another tin of food before bed at 10pm. He also has boiled chicken through the day as a snack. I have a feeling this is over feeding him (4 tins a day plus chicken) but since being taken off dry food completely he is not used to it and will sit in the kitchen meowing as he used to be a grazer with his dry food.
If somebody could help with the spreadsheet it would be appreciated.
 
Tagging @Bandit's Mom to help you with the spreadsheet.

what’s his ideal weight? A good rule of thumb is 20 times ideal weight to get the daily caloric intake however, unregulated cats can’t process the nutrients in food as I’ve said so they eat but are still hungry and what’s worse will lose weight. I wouldn’t feed any less until his diabetes is regulated. It’s very important for diabetic cats to eat enough so they stay healthy.
 
@kujo from the info you sent me for setting up your SS & Signature, I see that you are feeding FF pates and Tiger Royal Glycobalance. Glycobalance (both wet and dry) is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. You want to switch him completely to FF pates.

However, a change to a low carb diet can significantly impact a kitty's BG numbers and greatly reduce the insulin needed. So any transition in diet when already on insulin, has to be made gradually and with careful monitoring of the BG and insulin requirements. We have had cats that have gone off insulin with just a change from high carb kibble to a low carb canned diet.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
@kujo from the info you sent me for setting up your SS & Signature, I see that you are feeding FF pates and Tiger Royal Glycobalance. Glycobalance (both wet and dry) is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. You want to switch him completely to FF pates.

However, a change to a low carb diet can significantly impact a kitty's BG numbers and greatly reduce the insulin needed. So any transition in diet when already on insulin, has to be made gradually and with careful monitoring of the BG and insulin requirements. We have had cats that have gone off insulin with just a change from high carb kibble to a low carb canned diet.
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Hi, I don’t understand. The Royal Canin is for diabetic cats.
 
kujo said:
Hi, I don’t understand. The Royal Canin is for diabetic cats.
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Yes, many vets ask you to switch to a "prescription diabetic" food, but there's nothing in prescription food that miraculously treats diabetes. Many of them are expensive, too high in carbs (especially the dry ones) and the ingredients tend to be of low quality. Glycobalance canned is 14% carbs as compared to FF pates which are3% carbs or lower!
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yes, many vets ask you to switch to a "prescription diabetic" food, but there's nothing in prescription food that miraculously treats diabetes. Many of them are expensive, too high in carbs (especially the dry ones) and the ingredients tend to be of low quality. Glycobalance canned is 14% carbs as compared to FF pates which are3% carbs or lower!
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Ok thank you for explaining.
 
Bhooma ( bandit's mom ) is right the Royal Canin is 14% carbs, once you gradually start to remove it and with careful monitoring of the BG you can then remove that from your signature, so members still won't think Tiger is still eating it
To remove it click on your name up top then tap on signature , you can then remove it and tap save. Again you need to remove it gradually and monitor carefully :cat:
 
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My vet and nutritionist both told me to put Minnie on that as well and once I found out the carb percentage, I transitioned her back to FF.

I included this chart in my first post, take a look at it again: FOOD CHART have a look on this chart and choose foods that are under 10%.
 
Ok I am confused. I have followed the same feeding regime as yesterday. He had some really good readings this afternoon and I have just tested him and in 2 hours it has gone from 7.2 up to high 20’s and he hasn’t eaten anything except for some boiled chicken.
 
A cat’s bg won’t be the same every day. It varies for a wide variety of reasons including stress. Don’t expect to see the same pattern daily because you’ll drive yourself crazy.

have you plugged the numbers into the spreadsheet? I see 11/8 all filled out but that’s today so were those yesterday’s numbers?

did you pick a dosing method? If you’re going to follow SLGS, that 83 you saw yesterday means he earned a .25 reduction today so his dose after they should be 2.75. if you’re seeing higher numbers today, he could he bouncing from the low 80’s. It's a kitty's self defense mechanism. Here is the description:

Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
 
Thank you. What feeding schedule should I go by. Currently he gets a tin early in the morning, then I’ve just been feeding him chicken through the day before he gets a tin for an early dinner and then a tin at night right before bed (3 tins total for the day). Have I not been feeding him enough during the day by just giving some chicken. The vet said I need to show him tough love by minimising the quantity of food as he was getting 4 tins a day in total plus some chicken.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
A cat’s bg won’t be the same every day. It varies for a wide variety of reasons including stress. Don’t expect to see the same pattern daily because you’ll drive yourself crazy.

have you plugged the numbers into the spreadsheet? I see 11/8 all filled out but that’s today so were those yesterday’s numbers?

did you pick a dosing method? If you’re going to follow SLGS, that 83 you saw yesterday means he earned a .25 reduction today so his dose after they should be 2.75. if you’re seeing higher numbers today, he could he bouncing from the low 80’s. It's a kitty's self defense mechanism. Here is the description:

Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
Click to expand...
Spreadsheet is now updated. Vet has said 3 units while this monitor is on.
 
@kujo
Hi have you picked a dosing method to follow for Lantus yet ,either SLGS or TR
They will tell you when you need to either increase or decrease
As Ale mentioned in her post #22
If you’re going to follow SLGS, that 83 you saw yesterday (11-8) means he earned a .25 reduction today so his dose after that should be 2.75.
You should have given 2.75 units on 11-8 for the PMPS cycle
Here is the link for lantus, read all the yellow stickys, especially the one that explains the 2 dosing methods, when you decide please add it to your signature and your spreadsheet up top

Do you have the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings?

I remembered that I saw a recent post from a member from Australia that found a place to order U-100 syringes with the half unit markings
I copied it for you and here is what she said

Really great news! My half unit syringes arrived today in one piece and they’re exactly what I need for mum.

This means there is now a way to get these into the country.

Here is the link for where I bought them from:
https://au-healthcare4all.glopalstore.com/bd-micro-fine-syringes-demi-u100-0-3ml-30g-x-8mm-x100

They are from the HealthCare4All site and they use Glopal to ship to Australia. It only took one week to get to me as I ordered it last Saturday. I did pay the £55 international express post though and it arrived via FedEx just a moment ago.
bd_microfine_insulin_syringes_demi_0-3ml_lg.webp
 
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This is why cats go unregulated for so long because vets have no dosing methods to help you. You need to pick one of the 2 we go by here and follow it. We dose by the nadirs as we’ve explained before. Your cat dropped under 90 and it needs a dose reduction.

the feeding schedule doesn’t matter. You’re focusing on that but your cat is ravenous right now do the focus needs to be on getting it regulated. What’s the logic for you vet saying to stay with the same dose no matter the bgs? How is that a plan to get your cat regulated?
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@kujo just checking to see if you read my post #25 ?
about the reduction and choosing a method to follow ?
To add it to your signature tap on your name up too then tap in the word signature and add the dosing method you want to follow and and tap save also please add it to your spreadsheet up top tap save
Link to the dosing methods
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
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Yes, I will discuss it with my vet when they call today.
 
Just another question, I am going to go back to feeding some wet during the day as I feel that it may stop the bounce effect. After the AM insulin when would be the best times to give some small serves of wet food?
 
Hello everybody, I’ve been gone for a little while. Tiger has put on weight and is now at 4.7 Kilograms (he was as low as 4 kilograms when first diagnosed). He remains on 4 units of Lantus twice daily. I have a vet appointment later in the week to have another Libre monitor attached. His coat is so much better than when he was first diagnosed but he does remain very hungry. I was hoping for some advice as to what I need to be asking the vet. I guess his glucose readings will determine the next step. When he last had a Libre on he was still recording high readings as you can see from his spreadsheet.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
You can attach a Libre yourself. The FB group includes instructions for attaching them.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2894089194158745
Someone previous recommended that you learn to test your cat's BG using a hand held meter. have you considered ths?
I ask since your spreadsheet has no data since Dec 11. What dose have you been recently been injecting?
Click to expand...

Thank you for that suggestion, However it would not be possible. At the vet they need 2 people to apply the libre and they need to put a towel over the top half of his body as he becomes quite aggressive when it’s applied. I am interested in doing the hand held meter but am a bit worried about taking his blood myself.

He has been on 4 units of Lantus twice daily. There have been no hypo events in this time. I have noted for the past couple of weeks he is not demolishing his food straight away anymore. He will eat half and go back for the rest a bit later. Hopefully a good sign? As I mentioned earlier he has put all the weight back on plus a bit more and his coat is much better. I’m just hoping his blood glucose readings are lower when we go to see the vet.
 
kujo said:
However it would not be possible. At the vet they need 2 people to apply the libre and they need to put a towel over the top half of his body as he becomes quite aggressive when it’s applied.
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Do you have a friend/neighbor who could help attach a Libre? For cats it is really a two person job. For my Wiggles I give him 50mg gabapentin about 2 hours before attaching one. With my Merle I could probably do it myself and with no meds.
 
Ok, I’ve been putting it off for too long. After todays appointment and Libre fitting, I’ve decided I’m going to begin home testing with a glucometer. I can’t have a libre on him all the time. I guess I’ve been putting it off as I’m a bit scared how he will react to the pole in his ear. The videos here are really helpful. This is the monitor I’m going to buy.
https://www.pharmacydirect.com.au/a...MIncX24LzTgwMVACSDAx2tEQe1EAQYASABEgKM1fD_BwE
I’m assuming the lancets that go with it are suitable for a cat?
 
kujo said:
https://www.pharmacydirect.com.au/a...MIncX24LzTgwMVACSDAx2tEQe1EAQYASABEgKM1fD_BwE
Click to expand...
I can't load the page. I get this error:'
Access to www.pharmacydirect.com.au was denied
You don't have authorization to view this page.

HTTP ERROR 403

Thus can't comment on the lancets or suitability of the meter. I suspect it uses standard lancets. With regards to meter, you want one that has affordable strips. In the US strips for pet meter like the AlphaTrak are ~$1 each while the strips for Walmart's meter are $0.18 each
 
kujo said:
Ok, I’ve been putting it off for too long. After todays appointment and Libre fitting, I’ve decided I’m going to begin home testing with a glucometer. I can’t have a libre on him all the time. I guess I’ve been putting it off as I’m a bit scared how he will react to the pole in his ear. The videos here are really helpful. This is the monitor I’m going to buy.
https://www.pharmacydirect.com.au/a...MIncX24LzTgwMVACSDAx2tEQe1EAQYASABEgKM1fD_BwE
I’m assuming the lancets that go with it are suitable for a cat?
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@Bron and Sheba (GA) any insight given you’re in Australia too?
 
A few interesting happenings over the past few days.
New Libre was applied. High readings first day as you’d expect from the vet visit. Numbers over the past couple of days in the mid to high teens (4 units of Lantus).
Have noticed his ferocious appetite has eased a bit, Is not as aggressive to get his food. Still very eager to eat it when it’s put down but will eat some, go away and come back a few times before he’s eaten it completely whereas before it would be all gone within 5 minutes of putting it down.
Have noticed he’s laying down in weird places, tiled floor, kitchen etc. It has been very warm here lately and the house can get warm too. He does tend to lay down on the tiles a bit in summer but not this much in the past. Anyway I took him to the vet as a precaution as I got worried about dehydration maybe. Couldn’t get in to his normal vet for a week so went to another vet a bit further from home as I was wanting to be safe. They couldn’t examine him properly as he got quite aggressive (as usual). The only thing they could examine was colour of gums which they said was fine and colour of urine normal.
He has put on weight over the past few months since commencing insulin, in fact he’s now heavier than his original weight when first diagnosed in August. I think I am maybe over feeding but he is on a strict low carb wet diet thanks to the advice of people on here. Dry food cut completely out. Anyway, overnight I gave him half a tin of fancy feast pate instead of the full tin and was pleasantly surprised to wake up to a reading of 15 instead of the usual 25+.
I will update the spreadsheet today now the Libre is fitted.
 
kujo said:
So normally I give him 1 tin of low carb food at 5am, I will give insulin about 7am. I t
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Normally it's better to feed his main meal at shot time with Labtus so that would be at 7am and 7pm.

Feeding him at +10 in the cycle, which is when there is less insulin in his system has the undesired effect of boosting, his BG up, with Lantus, in an ideal world we want a PS that's low, this in turn leads to the nice flat cycles that this type of insulin is famous for

With la tus you would test, feed and shoot all within about 10minites.

I fed my guy, who is 24, now , 16 at diagnosis, on the following schedule (more or less)

Amps 75g 2% (7am)
+2 25g
+3 25g
+6 25g
Pmps (7pm)
+2=25g
+3 25g
+5 25

I tried not to feed in the second half of the cycle if I could help it, if he was pestering for food he'd get a zero carb snack (poached chicken breast or freeze dried treat) , sometimes it was necessary to if his BG required it.
kujo said:
Hello everybody, I’ve been gone for a little while. Tiger has put on weight and is now at 4.7 Kilograms (he was as low as 4 kilograms when first diagnosed). He remains on 4 units of Lantus twice daily. I have a vet appointment later in the week to have another Libre monitor attached. His coat is so much better than when he was first diagnosed but he does remain very hungry. I was hoping for some advice as to what I need to be asking the vet. I guess his glucose readings will determine the next step. When he last had a Libre on he was still recording high readings as you can see from his spreadsheet.
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Perhaps you could update with the recent readings?
kujo said:
Have noticed his ferocious appetite has eased a bit, Is not as aggressive to get his food. Still very eager to eat it when it’s put down but will eat some, go away and come back a few times before he’s eaten it completely whereas before it would be all gone within 5 minutes of putting it down.
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Would you say he's lethargic? Do you think he has something else going on.

If he's not eating as usual, being lethargic )or off, and his BG is high I would be concerned.

Have you got the means to test his urine for ketones at home?
 
Gill & George said:
Normally it's better to feed his main meal at shot time with Labtus so that would be at 7am and 7pm.

Feeding him at +10 in the cycle, which is when there is less insulin in his system has the undesired effect of boosting, his BG up, with Lantus, in an ideal world we want a PS that's low, this in turn leads to the nice flat cycles that this type of insulin is famous for

With la tus you would test, feed and shoot all within about 10minites.

I fed my guy, who is 24, now , 16 at diagnosis, on the following schedule (more or less)

Amps 75g 2% (7am)
+2 25g
+3 25g
+6 25g
Pmps (7pm)
+2=25g
+3 25g
+5 25

I tried not to feed in the second half of the cycle if I could help it, if he was pestering for food he'd get a zero carb snack (poached chicken breast or freeze dried treat) , sometimes it was necessary to if his BG required it.

Perhaps you could update with the recent readings?

Would you say he's lethargic? Do you think he has something else going on.

If he's not eating as usual, being lethargic )or off, and his BG is high I would be concerned.

Have you got the means to test his urine for ketones at home?
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Thank you for your help. Yes I understand. I will get the dose/feeding times adjusted to the same. I will also aim to feed the chicken in the second half of the cycle.
He had amazing numbers yesterday. The best he’s ever had.
I think he’s all ok in regards to the lethargy. Just his usual quirky behaviour. Since he was a kitten he has always had periods where he will repeatedly lay somewhere a bit different, A few weeks ago it was the bathroom mat, before that under the chair in the spare room, before that the mat near the back door. In winter, as usual it was under the blanket on the lounge. Previously he’d jump on the bed (which he did this morning). Once I found him in the towel cupboard in the bathroom!
I have updated the spreadsheet.
 
kujo said:
I have updated the spreadsheet.
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Thanks, nice nadir yesterday, with that 58. Don't be alarmed if he is up for a few cycles, it looks like he's bouncing, he may stay high for upto 6 cycles. I wouldn't take the dose up with a nadir in the 50's wait to see where his nadirs fall after the bounce has cleared (max 6 cycles).

A bounce is caused by the liver reacting to lower than normal number, it 'panics' and liberates stored glucose into the blood stream.

A bounce can be triggered when

  • Kitty drops fastK
  • Kitty drops into numbers lower than they are used to (this can be normal healthy numbers not a hypo number)
  • Kitty has a longer than usual run of Lower numbers.
It can last upto a maximum of 6 cycles, but can be shorter.


With Latus on this site we dose based on how low the dose is taking the cat (nadir), so I would wait to see what happens when the bounce clears before you take the dose up

Are you still feeding royal canin diabetic?
 
Gill & George said:
Thanks, nice nadir yesterday, with that 58. Don't be alarmed if he is up for a few cycles, it looks like he's bouncing, he may stay high for upto 6 cycles. I wouldn't take the dose up with a nadir in the 50's wait to see where his nadirs fall after the bounce has cleared (max 6 cycles).

A bounce is caused by the liver reacting to lower than normal number, it 'panics' and liberates stored glucose into the blood stream.

A bounce can be triggered when

  • Kitty drops fastK
  • Kitty drops into numbers lower than they are used to (this can be normal healthy numbers not a hypo number)
  • Kitty has a longer than usual run of Lower numbers.
It can last upto a maximum of 6 cycles, but can be shorter.


With Latus on this site we dose based on how low the dose is taking the cat (nadir), so I would wait to see what happens when the bounce clears before you take the dose up

Are you still feeding royal canin diabetic?
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Thank you for the really helpful information. Finally I feel we are getting somewhere!

I stopped the Royal Canin after I was told on here that it was too high in carbs. I need to remove it from my signature.

He is a bit higher today, I assume from the bounce as you mentioned. Spreadsheet updated.
 
kujo said:
I stopped the Royal Canin after I was told on here that it was too high in carbs. I need to remove it from my signature.
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Great, it's got too many carbs to be appropriate.
kujo said:
Not bad overnight dropping to 10 but a huge spike at +11.
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Sometimes they try to break the bounce and don't quite make it.

Paws crossed he does soon.

How are you getting on with trying to home test?

Try playing with his ears and giving him a carb free treat straight away. If you can get him associating having his ears massaged with a treat you may find it easier to do the ear poke, less stress all round for all of you.
 
Gill & George said:
Great, it's got too many carbs to be appropriate.

Sometimes they try to break the bounce and don't quite make it.

Paws crossed he does soon.

How are you getting on with trying to home test?

Try playing with his ears and giving him a carb free treat straight away. If you can get him associating having his ears massaged with a treat you may find it easier to do the ear poke, less stress all round for all of you.
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I have been playing with his ears and he’s fine with it. I will need to try very soon. Do you use a human glucometer or a pet one?
 
I use a human meter.

I Followed TR and the study it's based on used human meters so to make life simpler I used a human meter, and actually when George was diagnosed, 2015, most people used human meters on the board.

It's cheaper, and strips are more easily available.

I used a freestyle freedom lite.


And a SD code free.
 
Gill & George said:
I use a human meter.

I Followed TR and the study it's based on used human meters so to make life simpler I used a human meter, and actually when George was diagnosed, 2015, most people used human meters on the board.

It's cheaper, and strips are more easily available.

I used a freestyle freedom lite.


And a SD code free.
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Thank you. He seems to be doing a lot of bouncing. His numbers weren’t bad today but then they bounced. Right now he is dropping again so he will probably bounce overnight.
 
Its been an interesting couple of days. The weather has been cooler and he is back to his normal self although still laying in the floor at times but his demeanour is back to normal.
I thought I’d try the feeding pattern above, a tin for breakfast and then small 25g portions through the day.
Today he spent a large part of the day with single figure readings and at one stage I thought he might be getting too low! Still gets high in that last hour or so pre-shot.
 
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