10/31 Mouse Dental Surgery Day PMPS 405, +2 289, +4 176

Phoenix R.

Phoenix R.

Very Active Member
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...25-130-3-81-4-66-5-75-72.283068/#post-3119148

Mouse's dental surgery went well and we were actually able to bring her home before noon. She hasn't been super interested in eating (understandably, the poor girl got all of her front teeth removed, canines and little front teeth, she didn't have any back teeth I guess), has only taken a couple tiny licks of her watered down baby food. I did give her a couple of mls by syringe when we got home from my wife's appt this afternoon and gave her her metacam dose. I waited a half hour and gave her another 5mls and will feed her again shortly. How much and how often do I need to make sure she eats? What dose of insulin should I give her tonight? I'm nervous about giving her full dose as I'm sure it'll be challenging to get her to eat tonight. Her BG this morning was 280 when we arrived at vets office, 400s on a pet meter after surgery, 515 shortly after we arrived home, 457 three hours after being home.
 
How long until PMPS time?

It's good you tested when she got home, the 3 hours later. The before PMPS test will be telling. One of the possible induction drugs actually lowers BG, so if the vet used that one, we'd be a bit more cautious on insulin dose. Last thing you want is a dropping cat who doesn't feel like eating. Today she's got a combination of bounce (probably), vet stress, mouth inflammation, and lack of insulin dose impacting her numbers.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
How long until PMPS time?

It's good you tested when she got home, the 3 hours later. The before PMPS test will be telling. One of the possible induction drugs actually lowers BG, so if the vet used that one, we'd be a bit more cautious on insulin dose. Last thing you want is a dropping cat who doesn't feel like eating. Today she's got a combination of bounce (probably), vet stress, mouth inflammation, and lack of insulin dose impacting her numbers.
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Normal PMPS is 8:30, last night was 8 was considering doing 7:30 or 8 for her new ps time so I can get to bed earlier.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
What time zone? I'm trying to figure out how much time from now? Updating the spreadsheet will help.
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Central time zone, if we did a 7:30pm shot then that would be in about 42 minutes. She didn't get a shot this morning so wasn't sure how to enter the couple of numbers from today, I also don't know what time the vet took their reading and it was done on a pet meter
 
Maybe half a dose? That's what vets suggest for cats who cannot eat due to anaesthesia. Insulin does more than counter the carbs in her food.
Phoenix R. said:
She didn't get a shot this morning so wasn't sure how to enter the couple of numbers from today, I also don't know what time the vet took their reading and it was done on a pet meter
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Put NS (or no shot) or Skip in the units cell. Plus a note in the Remarks saying she had a dental today. For the pet meter reading, just put AT after the number.

Got a PMPS test yet?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Maybe half a dose? That's what vets suggest for cats who cannot eat due to anaesthesia. Insulin does more than counter the carbs in her food.

Put NS (or no shot) or Skip in the units cell. Plus a note in the Remarks saying she had a dental today. For the pet meter reading, just put AT after the number.

Got a PMPS test yet?
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Yup her PMPS was 405, gave half dose already. Gave gabapentin dose and still working on feeding got 10 cc's of watered down ff savory centers in her so far...
 
Phoenix R. said:
Yup her PMPS was 405, gave half dose already. Gave gabapentin dose and still working on feeding got 10 cc's of watered down ff savory centers in her so far.
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If you only gave half her usual dose, she's more than high enough that you shouldn't really have to worry too much about getting a certain amount of food into her. I'd let her rest and recuperate tonight and get her pain under better control and see how she feels in the morning. If her mouth is sore (which makes sense), I'd be concerned that I might hurt them if I tried to syringe feed.

Get a test at +2 and let's see how she's doing then.

We're not big fans of Metacam here due to a black box warning due to kidney problems, but gabapentin is usually a pretty good drug to sedate them some.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
If you only gave half her usual dose, she's more than high enough that you shouldn't really have to worry too much about getting a certain amount of food into her. I'd let her rest and recuperate tonight and get her pain under better control and see how she feels in the morning. If her mouth is sore (which makes sense), I'd be concerned that I might hurt them if I tried to syringe feed. +2 will be in about an hour, I'll post result.

Get a test at +2 and let's see how she's doing then.

We're not big fans of Metacam here due to a black box warning due to kidney problems, but gabapentin is usually a pretty good drug to sedate them some.
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Should I just try to feed every couple hours? Maybe a few cc's? Is it ok to give metacam short term or atleast for the first couple of days post op?
 
@Phoenix R. asked me to post this picture of Mouse. Looks like she's had a tough day!
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Wendy&Neko said:
You might want to read through this post, it also talks about dosing:
Getting a little food into her will be good. But you don't need to force it if she's not willing to eat.
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Thank you I will have to read that tomorrow... I'm so exhausted I can't even focus.
Chris & China (GA) said:
Your spreadsheet says her PMPS was 220. If that's accurate, looks like she's going to have a pretty quiet night.
If she'd dropped from 405 to 289 in 2 hours, I'd be concerned that she's dropping too fast.

Which one is correct?
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405... I fixed it on her SS ... My brain lapsed when I filled that in... Was trying to do too many things at once
 
Phoenix R. said:
Should i give a little MC to try to slow the drop?
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Is the Special Kitty she's eating (on her own) MC or LC?

From Phoenix: Looks like she finished her normal snack amount of 1½tsp LC , so I'll stick with the special kitty for tonight and fingers crossed she'll keep eating her full snacks... My plan is to test and offer snacks for +3, +4 and +5... I'm hoping after that we'll be good and I can get some sleep. Should I plan to give her full 1 unit dose in the morning or go with .5u again until I know she's for sure eating fine on her own?

My reply: if she's over 200, I'd give the 1U as long as you can test as much as may be necessary and have all the stuff for a hypo kit. I think you could probably wait until +4 to test again tonight now that she's eating on her own. Offer more food at +3 and if she eats, wait until +4 to test again. If she's still doing good then, maybe you could get some sleep
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
That's fine....let's see if she's slowing down how much she drops now that she's at least eating on her own.
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+4 176
She only took a few licks of her +3 snack and a few of her +4 snack but I think she's getting tired... She definitely looks tired, I know I am... It's been a very long day for both of us. I guess I can set an alarm for +6 to check her again then.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Just leave some food out and call it a night. :bighug:
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I agree....if it would make you feel better you could give her something a little higher carb (not high carb...MC)

You both need some sleep. Tomorrow is another day. 1 snack of higher carb food isn't going to cause her any problems going forward.

ETA...Looks like @Bandit's Mom is going to check in on you too. If you need her, she's Bhooma Varadrajan in the FB group.
 
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Bandit's Mom said:
Just leave some food out and call it a night. :bighug:
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I ended up going to lay down, set 2 alarms to get up to check her again and neither one woke me up. Most of her +4 snack was still in her dish this morning. I **** 1 unit this morning because she had started to lick her food that I offered but then she decided to go on strike so I gave a feeling its going to be another long, difficult and frustrating day...
 
Phoenix R. said:
I ended up going to lay down, set 2 alarms to get up to check her again and neither one woke me up. Most of her +4 snack was still in her dish this morning. I **** 1 unit this morning because she had started to lick her food that I offered but then she decided to go on strike so I gave a feeling its going to be another long, difficult and frustrating day...
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Hang in there. :bighug: Bandit also was very fussy about food after her dental and she didn't even have any extractions. For the sake of your sanity, you could go down to 0.75U. She hasn't earned a reduction, but think of it as a temporary vacation dose.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Hang in there. :bighug: Bandit also was very fussy about food after her dental and she didn't even have any extractions. For the sake of your sanity, you could go down to 0.75U. She hasn't earned a reduction, but think of it as a temporary vacation dose.
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I already gave 1 unit this morning :nailbiting: I just wish she would cooperate... I'm tired and feel like crap today but have a ton of stuff I need to do. Should I try putting some mirataz on her ear to see if that'll jump start her?
 
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