New Members - LilyandWhit (kinda long)

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LilyandWhit

Member Since 2023
Hello!

My name is Whitney and Lily is my recently diagnosed with DM purrchild. I've been a cat mom to many wonderful kitties with other issues, but this is my first DM kitty in a two cat home. Kitty boy, Saroo is 6.5 years old (9 m/o stray that adopted me in 2017), she tolerates him (he is alpha), he wants to play with her all the time, she wants to play on her terms, so we work hard to keep him not bored.

For transparency here is her full history.

History:
Lily is 11.5 years old, currently about 9 lbs, but used to be 12 lbs (Jan 2023) (large kitty) and when we got her 6 years ago in August of 2018, she was 15 lbs.

Her previous owners were in their late 80s/early 90s when they got her and both passed away within a year of each other in 2017 (kitty dad)/2018 (kitty mom). When we took her in (a week after her kitty mom passed), we had no vet records, and a very sad kitty. It took 8 months for her to acclimate to living with us and she historically hides. While with them she was fed friskies gravy type foods. We transitioned her to a high protein/low carb diet of Weruva Chicken Frick-a-zee and Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets Classic Pate around October/November of 2018.

In August of 2019, (after I was out of town for a week), she licked all her fur off her belly, the vet and I thought it was a skin issue, we began treating with Apoquel, which she was on for 18 months. She was great during the shutdown, because I was home (I'm a teacher) but the licking continued and she began chewing hotspots around stressors (fireworks, returning to teaching in person, if my schedule changed, etc.) which landed us at the vet roughly every 8-10 weeks for about 6 months for antibiotics and an occasional steroid shot (I was very cautious about this).

In March of 2021, further testing showed that she had struvite crystals in her urine and a very inflamed bladder lining. We began (and have continued) 100mg of Gabapentin 2x a day and Dasuquin 2x a day (until this past Mon -we have reduced to 1x a day). We also switched her food to Purina Pro Vet St/Ox wet and dry food (dry food has been an automatic feeder 4xs a day at 6 hour intervals - roughly 20 pieces per serving) wet food has been 1 can a day split into 2 feedings (6:30 AM/6:30 PM). We have maintained this for 2.5 years. She has also been on 5mg of prozac a day since July of 2021 to stop the biting/creation of hotspots. Totally different cat, now, not hiding and more social!

I took her to the vet 9/18 for a facial abscess (first one ever!) and discovered she had lost 2.7 lbs. (She isn't a kitty who likes being picked up and the initial weight loss wasn't as noticeable due to her body structure.) We did bloodwork and found that her blood sugar was high, further testing on Thursday came back with elevated pancreas numbers, so we began the process of insulin administration Tuesday 9/26 PM at 1u every 12 hours. We are using Lantus.

I'm using a Reli-On Glucometer (Alpha track 3 ordered and on it's way) and new food is on it's way - Purina Pro Vet DM as it will continue to reduce struvite formation. (though I still don't like some of the ingredients...)

As for home testing, I'm home today with plans to test at +3, +6, and +9 just to see what this 1 u is doing.
Initial reading Tuesday 7:07pm was 385, food @7:15, 1 u given at 7:45pm, +3 (11:35pm) was 344. Wed 6:45 AM was 406, fed @ 6:55, 1u given at 7:30, and had to leave for school. When I got home I tested at 6:50pm and she was at 393, fed at 7:05 - and she threw it all up within 20 mins (history of vomiting), called the e-vet and they said wait till she keeps food down, so I gave her food in increments from 8-8:30, then gave 1u at 9pm (but I forgot to test), checked before I went to bed at 12:15 am and she was at 412. This morning at 8:15am she was at 432. so we shall see what it looks like at +3.

Happy to have this forum!

-Whitney
 
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Hello,

I had to stall last night because Lily threw up all her food (3 episodes) within 15 mins after eating, this is not uncommon with her, so I called the e-vet in my town to get advice. They said to give her food in a bit, and if she kept it down, then give insulin. She is on 1 unit of Lantus every 12 hours. I'm a teacher and I stayed home from school today due to a migraine, but was able to monitor her. Transitioning to Purina Pro DM this weekend - currently feeding Purina Pro vet St/ox wet food. (she doesn't get dry food right now because of a healing abscess)

Because of the vomiting, she got her shot last night at 9:00pm; this morning her shot was given at 8:45am.

My question is about tonights shot and tomorrow morning- can I give her a shot an hour and 15 minutes early tonight at 7:30pm so I can dose her at 7:30 am tomorrow and go to school?

Here are her numbers (sorry, I'll make a spreadsheet this weekend, I'm not great with excel but DH is!):
9/26/23
7:07pm - PMPS BG 385 fed 1/2 can of food @ 7:15pm 1u @ 7:45pm +4 BG 344

9/27/23
6:45 am - AMPS BG 406 fed 1/2 can of food @ 6:55 am 1u @ 7:30 am
6:50 pm - PMPS BG 393 fed 1/2 can of food @ 7:05 pm stalled due to vomiting (see above) 1u @ 9pm after about 1/2 can of food fed in small intervals over an hour. (forgot to test again before shot) 9/28/23 12:15 am +3.15 BG 412

9/28/23
8:15 am - AMPS BG 432 fed 1/2 can @8:35 am 1u given at 8:45am. +3 @ 11:45AM BG 420 (-12); +6 2:45pm BG 392 (-28)

+10 BG is 374 (-18) Total drops so far: 58 points

Thank you!
 
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We ask new members to post first on the main/health forum and set up a spreadsheet before moving here. . You have a signature which is the other thing we need. The mods will likely combine the two posts this there but until that happens keep this thread going. You don’t need diabetic food. Most are high carb and dry RX food is really high carb. Wet low carb food is best so if your cat eats it willingly ditch the dry and look at the food list for food. Pates are usually low carb and many here feed Fancy feast.

It will take 5-7 days for the depot to build to see how this dose works. With SLGS you hold the dose for 7 days and then do a curve. Any drop under 90 calls for a dose reduction of .25.
You need to follow SLGS if feeding any dry food.

Did she have ketones when diagnosed or was DKA mentioned? If so you don’t want to skip a dose. You don’t want to shoot more than 15 minutes early each cycle or 30 minutes all at once every 24 hours. Shooting an hour early can act like a dose increase and being new to insulin we don’t know how she will react. You don’t need to wait to give insulin after testing. You can test and unless the bg is low shoot while she’s eating. That will give you a little extra time to see her bg before you go to work. Cats usually hit the nadir, lowest point in the cycle between +4-6 but for some it’s later or earlier. Lantus usually kicks in around +2. Will you be able to get a +2 before you leave for work?


What caused the abscess? Was it in her mouth and did she have a dental? Any other medical issues?

I just saw you did post on main. I’m going to read it You may have answered some of my questions. That is why we link posts for continuity. I’ll let the mods know.
 
Welcome Whitney and Lily, sorry no one has answered you yet. I'm going to tag some experienced members for you but first

Here is the link so you can set up your signature and spreadsheet
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
The blue link will also explain how to set up our spreadsheet, if you need help setting it up just ask, I can tag a member for you to set it up
 
Hello!

My name is Whitney and Lily is my recently diagnosed with DM purrchild. I've been a cat mom to many wonderful kitties with other issues, but this is my first DM kitty in a two cat home. Kitty boy, Saroo is 6.5 years old (9 m/o stray that adopted me in 2017), she tolerates him (he is alpha), he wants to play with her all the time, she wants to play on her terms, so we work hard to keep him not bored.

For transparency here is her full history.

History:
Lily is 11.5 years old, currently about 9 lbs, but used to be 12 lbs (Jan 2023) (large kitty) and when we got her 6 years ago in August of 2018, she was 15 lbs.

Her previous owners were in their late 80s/early 90s when they got her and both passed away within a year of each other in 2017 (kitty dad)/2018 (kitty mom). When we took her in (a week after her kitty mom passed), we had no vet records, and a very sad kitty. It took 8 months for her to acclimate to living with us and she historically hides. While with them she was fed friskies gravy type foods. We transitioned her to a high protein/low carb diet of Weruva Chicken Frick-a-zee and Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets Classic Pate around October/November of 2018.

In August of 2019, (after I was out of town for a week), she licked all her fur off her belly, the vet and I thought it was a skin issue, we began treating with Apoquel, which she was on for 18 months. She was great during the shutdown, because I was home (I'm a teacher) but the licking continued and she began chewing hotspots around stressors (fireworks, returning to teaching in person, if my schedule changed, etc.) which landed us at the vet roughly every 8-10 weeks for about 6 months for antibiotics and an occasional steroid shot (I was very cautious about this).

In March of 2021, further testing showed that she had struvite crystals in her urine and a very inflamed bladder lining. We began (and have continued) 100mg of Gabapentin 2x a day and Dasuquin 2x a day (until this past Mon -we have reduced to 1x a day). We also switched her food to Purina Pro Vet St/Ox wet and dry food (dry food has been an automatic feeder 4xs a day at 6 hour intervals - roughly 20 pieces per serving) wet food has been 1 can a day split into 2 feedings (6:30 AM/6:30 PM). We have maintained this for 2.5 years. She has also been on 5mg of prozac a day since July of 2021 to stop the biting/creation of hotspots. Totally different cat, now, not hiding and more social!

I took her to the vet 9/18 for a facial abscess (first one ever!) and discovered she had lost 2.7 lbs. (She isn't a kitty who likes being picked up and the initial weight loss wasn't as noticeable due to her body structure.) We did bloodwork and found that her blood sugar was high, further testing on Thursday came back with elevated pancreas numbers, so we began the process of insulin administration Tuesday 9/26 PM at 1u every 12 hours. We are using Lantus.

I'm using a Reli-On Glucometer (Alpha track 3 ordered and on it's way) and new food is on it's way - Purina Pro Vet DM as it will continue to reduce struvite formation. (though I still don't like some of the ingredients...)

As for home testing, I'm home today with plans to test at +3, +6, and +9 just to see what this 1 u is doing.
Initial reading Tuesday 7:07pm was 385, food @7:15, 1 u given at 7:45pm, +3 (11:35pm) was 344. Wed 6:45 AM was 406, fed @ 6:55, 1u given at 7:30, and had to leave for school. When I got home I tested at 6:50pm and she was at 393, fed at 7:05 - and she threw it all up within 20 mins (history of vomiting), called the e-vet and they said wait till she keeps food down, so I gave her food in increments from 8-8:30, then gave 1u at 9pm (but I forgot to test), checked before I went to bed at 12:15 am and she was at 412. This morning at 8:15am she was at 432. so we shall see what it looks like at +3.

Happy to have this forum!

-Whitney
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

Thank you ladies
 
We also switched her food to Purina Pro Vet St/Ox wet and dry food (dry food
I looked up the carbs for the wet on the Chewy site
What is the break down of phosphorus, protein, sodium and carbs,on a dry matter basis?
Answer by • Feb 18, 2019
This cat food has a Protein content of 50.45% on a dry-matter basis, a Carbohydrate content of 14.05% on a dry-matter basis, a Phosphorus content of 0.92% on a dry-matter basis, and a Sodium content of 0.71% on a dry-matter basis.

This is too high in carbs


The dry food
What is the carbohydrate % for this food as well as % dry matter phosphorus and magnesium? Thank you
Answer by • Dec 30, 2019
The carbohydrate content is 24.77% on an as fed basis and 27.06% on a dry matter basis. The phosphorus content is 1.14% on an as fed basis and 1.24% on a dry matter basis. The magnesium content is 0.08% on both an as fed basis and a dry matter basis.

This is also too high in carbs
 
Purina Pro Vet DM as it will continue to reduce struvite formation. (though I still don't like some of the ingredients...)

Yes the Purina Pro Vet DM wet is 6% carbs


The kibble

What is the % carbohydrate?
Answer by • Mar 30, 2022
This formula has a maximum carbohydrate content of 18.0%.
Too high in carbs
 
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I don't know if you want to try these
Hi Tyler was blocked once, had to take him to the ER ,

the mucus plug, was blocked ,I needed to change his food.
He's been in remission since 1-24-21
The food that was suggested by the ER was too high in carbs so I found this and have been feeding this , never raised his BG and knock on wood hadn't been blocked since

Purina Pro Plan Urinary Tract Health Beef & Chicken Entree flavor Pate

Purina Pro Plan Urinary Tract Health Chicken Entree

They are both low carb and low in phosphorus


The Purina Pro Plan Urinary Tract Health is low carb and low phosphorus
Beef and Chicken Entree pate
Carbs are around 4.80
Phosphorus is 1.44 dry matter

They also have Chicken Entree in Gravy which isn't pate it like tiny pieces of chicken like the size of a chicklet piece of gum lol remember them, they are like tiny tiny chunks
Carbs are 4.5
Phosphorus 0.78 dry matter

So he doesn't get bored I give him some Tiki Cat Succulent Chicken in Chicken Consume , they are shreds of chicken
Carbs 0.338
Phosphorus 0.93

Knock on wood hasn't had a problem since Nov 2022


The Chicken Entree
https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Pro-Plan-Urinary-Formula/dp/B003R0LM2U
I have a Pet Smart by me so I just run in there to pick them up
Petco has them too
At least you can buy a few cans and see if she likes it

Here's the Beef & Chicken Entree
https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Pro-Plan-Urinary-Formula/dp/B0170YQ822

My vet said this was a good food to feed Tyler
@LilyandWhit
 
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We ask new members to post first on the main/health forum and set up a spreadsheet before moving here. . You have a signature which is the other thing we need. The mods will likely combine the two posts this there but until that happens keep this thread going. You don’t need diabetic food. Most are high carb and dry RX food is really high carb. Wet low carb food is best so if your cat eats it willingly ditch the dry and look at the food list for food. Pates are usually low carb and many here feed Fancy feast.

It will take 5-7 days for the depot to build to see how this dose works. With SLGS you hold the dose for 7 days and then do a curve. Any drop under 90 calls for a dose reduction of .25.
You need to follow SLGS if feeding any dry food.

Did she have ketones when diagnosed or was DKA mentioned? If so you don’t want to skip a dose. You don’t want to shoot more than 15 minutes early each cycle or 30 minutes all at once every 24 hours. Shooting an hour early can act like a dose increase and being new to insulin we don’t know how she will react. You don’t need to wait to give insulin after testing. You can test and unless the bg is low shoot while she’s eating. That will give you a little extra time to see her bg before you go to work. Cats usually hit the nadir, lowest point in the cycle between +4-6 but for some it’s later or earlier. Lantus usually kicks in around +2. Will you be able to get a +2 before you leave for work?


What caused the abscess? Was it in her mouth and did she have a dental? Any other medical issues?

I just saw you did post on main. I’m going to read it You may have answered some of my questions. That is why we link posts for continuity. I’ll let the mods know.

I'm sorry, I read a lot today on here, didn't mean to cause confusion. :) I'll edit my post and see if I can link it.

The vet thinks the abscess was from a bite, (possibly my other cat was trying to play too rough?). We were feeding a LC wet food prior to the struvite issues that developed :( This is why I felt it necessary to try the Purina DM. What we are currently feeding is med carb (13%). I've been following this chart for all my cats since 2016. The inflamed bladder has been a constant challenge.
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

No ketones or DKA.

Unfortunately I won't be able to test before leaving, I have to be there by 8:05 :( Not every PM the same, so I'm trying to figure out how to walk everything back. The vomiting is what pushed this tonight/tomorrow :(

Thank you for your response :)
 
Welcome Whitney and Lily, sorry no one has answered you yet. I'm going to tag some experienced members for you but first

Here is the link so you can set up your signature and spreadsheet
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.
The blue link will also explain how to set up our spreadsheet, if you need help setting it up just ask, I can tag a member for you to set it up
Thank you, I plan on getting the spreadsheet up and running this weekend :) I did read the helping us help you link (and almost everything else today, still processing it though :)
 
What is carbohydrate level per can?
Answer by • Aug 26, 2021
This recipe has a carbohydrate content of 3.14 grams per 100 kilocalories. It has a carbohydrate percentage of 13.56% on a dry matter basis.

Looks like this one is also too high in carbs the wet food


The kibble

What is the % carbohydrate?
Answer by • Mar 30, 2022
This formula has a maximum carbohydrate content of 18.0%.
Too high in carbs

Thank you, yes I knew the current food is a bit high, Purina Pro DM is 6, don't remember about the dry, and FF exacerbated the struvite issue , so I'm trying to avoid that whole mess on top of this new diagnosis. The kibble I give like "treats" to her. We have automatic dry feeders, currently off and kitty boy's food is up so she can't eat it. I will have to transition them both to the DM ($$) or whatever I land with.
 
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I don't know if you want to try tgesec
Hi Tyler was blocked once, had to take him to the ER ,

the mucus plug, was blocked ,I needed to change his food.
He's been in remission since 1-24-21
The food that was suggested by the ER was too high in carbs so I found this and have been feeding this , never raised his BG and knock on wood hadn't been blocked since

Purina Pro Plan Urinary Tract Health Beef & Chicken Entree flavor Pate

Purina Pro Plan Urinary Tract Health Chicken Entree

They are both low carb and low in phosphorus


The Purina Pro Plan Urinary Tract Health is low carb and low phosphorus
Beef and Chicken Entree pate
Carbs are around 4.80
Phosphorus is 1.44 dry matter

They also have Chicken Entree in Gravy which isn't pate it like tiny pieces of chicken like the size of a chicklet piece of gum lol remember them, they are like tiny tiny chunks
Carbs are 4.5
Phosphorus 0.78 dry matter

So he doesn't get bored I give him some Tiki Cat Succulent Chicken in Chicken Consume , they are shreds of chicken
Carbs 0.338
Phosphorus 0.93

Knock on wood hasn't had a problem since Nov 2022


The Chicken Entree
https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Pro-Plan-Urinary-Formula/dp/B003R0LM2U
I have a Pet Smart by me so I just run in there to pick them up
Petco has them too
At least you can buy a few cans and see if she likes it

Here's the Beef & Chicken Entree
https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Pro-Plan-Urinary-Formula/dp/B0170YQ822

My vet said this was a good food to feed Tyler
@LilyandWhit

Thank you, I'll do some more research, I didn't buy a lot of the DM, one case to try. I really don't want to cause a flare in her bladder, she was never blocked, but was in a great deal of pain and would self-mutilate. She also holds her urine for forever. :( It's how she has been since we got her.
 
or could I dose her an hour early tonight, monitor at +2 and +4 so I can dose at 15 mins early at 7:30?

Her BG spiked to 433 at 8:00, I did give 1 u 45 mins early at 8 - just did a read and she is at 551 (+2.5)

It's just me doing all the stuff...
 
Whitney -- when you have a chance, please get a spreadsheet set up. The link is in Diane's post #6. We are very numbers oriented so having a spreadsheet is very helpful and many of us, myself included routinely look at member's spreadsheets and are very hesitant to provide advice without seeing the spreadsheet.

Just so you're aware, to move a shot time with Lantus, you typically want to do so gradually. If you can, please get some tests before you leave for the day and do leave food out for Lily.

Also, until you eliminate the dry food from Lily's diet, you can only use SLGS for dosing. TR requires that a cat is on a low carb, canned food diet.
 
Thank you, I'll be working on the spreadsheet today. Definitely staying with SLGS for now.

Do you have a reccomendation on how much wet food to leave? (Especially with a 2 cat household?)

She has always been a kitty who eats ALL of her food at one time, (typically very fast!) which is why we give a little time before the shot so she doesn't regurgitate. :(
 
Please let us know if you need help with your spreadsheet. I'm tagging Bhooma (@Bandit's Mom) in case you need help.

It sounds like you have a good plan for how to feed Lily and then give insulin. You may want to consider a different bowl for her food. They actually make bowls that force a cat to eat a bit more slowly.

There's no strict rule for how much to feed your cat. On Lisa Pierson, DVM's feline nutrition website, she uses this formula to calculate calories per day based on your cat's weight. The formula is: Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70. However, if your cat is active, you may need to feed more. The best idea is to keep an eye on your cat's weight and if Lily needs more calories, feed her more. If she needs less, decrease the amount.
 
Thank you!
We use elevated bowls for both kitties, but I will get the one to help slow her down, I've been giving her 1 tbs at a time of wet food so she eats a little slower and takes a breath or two.

Just added the spreadsheet to my signature :)
 
The dry DM is keeping Lily's numbers in a less than desirable range -- but I suspect you know that. I'd encourage you to get a +2 or +3 test every night before you go to sleep (aka a "before bed" test). Many cats experience lower numbers over night so you want to be reasonable confident that you're catching any drop in numbers. Insulin onset with Lantus typically begins at +2 although every cat is different (ECID).

You hold the dose for a week. After 14 cycles, if Lily's numbers are not where you want them, you will need to consider increasing the dose to 1.25u.
 
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