9/26 Molly: AMPS 340, +1 302, +3 144, +5.5 66, +9 179, PMPS 288

[Molly's Momma]

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9-25-molly-amps-239-pmps-393-1-409.281942/#post-3108245

Will be doing AMPS at 12:00 PM EST (working down to 11AM-11PM cycles if not 9AM-9PM)

ETA 3:11 AM: wanted to clarify, I'm going to work on getting back to 11AM-11PM cycles (9AM-9PM is the prime goal) gradually by doing 11h/11.5h cycles instead of every 12 hours, until I reach the desired AM-PM 12-hour cycle.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

Will be doing AMPS at 12:00 PM EST (working down to 11AM-11PM cycles if not 9AM-9PM)

ETA 3:11 AM: wanted to clarify, I'm going to work on getting back to 11AM-11PM cycles (9AM-9PM is the prime goal) gradually by doing 11h/11.5h cycles instead of every 12 hours, until I reach the desired AM-PM 12-hour cycle.

The mind boggles! The PM shot is technically in the AM. I will be waiting for you to get to 11am/pm. LOL

I've added the rows for Sep 10th to 22nd in the SS. When possible, could you please add the number of units you gave on those dates?

 

[Molly's Momma]

The mind boggles! The PM shot is technically in the AM. I will be waiting for you to get to 11am/pm. LOL

I've added the rows for Sep 10th to 22nd in the SS. When possible, could you please add the number of units you gave on those dates?

Bandit's Mom,

Oh gosh I know!! That one day where I overslept completely threw our schedule off. But we should be back to the 11AM/11PM tomorrow!

Thank you SO much!! I truly appreciate you doing that for me. I've updated her SS along with all the notes and times I was writing down prior to the beginning of home-testing. Feel free to take a peek at it and let me know if there's any questions you may have. I just did a quick PMPS +7 and she's at 393. Should I wait until 12 PM as planned or go ahead and consider that her AMPS and give her a full 1.0u ? She has not eaten yet. Thinking about giving her some tuna as a surprise (as long as that won't give her a spike, please let me know further about this). Thank you in advance!

 

[Bandit's Mom]

Should I wait until 12 PM as planned or go ahead and consider that her AMPS and give her a full 1.0u ? She has not eaten yet. Thinking about giving her some tuna as a surprise (as long as that won't give her a spike, please let me know further about this). Thank you in advance!

I don't think you want to give the next dose 7 hours from the last one. Might be a good idea to wait till 12pm

ETA: Since she dropped to 49 on 1U, she earned a reduction to 0.75U. The high numbers you are seeing now is her body's reaction to dropping low. We call it bouncing. Bounces can take up to 6 cycles to clear. I would hold the 0.75U at least 8 cycles, if not 10 before re-evaluating her dose.

 

[Molly's Momma]

I don't think you want to give the next dose 7 hours from the last one. Might be a good idea to wait till 12pm

ETA: Since she dropped to 49 on 1U, she earned a reduction to 0.75U. The high numbers you are seeing now is her body's reaction to dropping low. We call it bouncing. Bounces can take up to 6 cycles to clear. I would hold the 0.75U at least 8 cycles, if not 10 before re-evaluating her dose.

Yes, ma'am! I will wait until 12PM to do her AMPS and will continue dosing 0.75u for the next 10 cycles. Is there a thread in LLB that explains cycles and bounces? I definitely want to read up on that some more . I also purchased some Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken (15% med carbs) as per a recommendation from another member on my 9/25 thread in case of hypo emergencies.

As of right now, Molly is very upset with me that I haven't given her breakfast yet lol! I'm looking forward to her AMPS and I'm feeling more and more confident each day.

I'm so glad I found FDMB

 

[Molly's Momma]

AMPS 340 @ 12 PM / Gave 0.75u along with 1 tbsp Friskies Pate

 

[Bandit's Mom]

Is there a thread in LLB that explains cycles and bounces?

Here's the explanation for Bouncing from the Sticky The Basics: New to the Group? Start here!

• Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Here is also another explanation by a member:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-8-346-increased-tonight.234063/#post-2618868

As of right now, Molly is very upset with me that I haven't given her breakfast yet lol! I'm looking forward to her AMPS and I'm feeling more and more confident each day.

Does she get food only with the shots? Nothing in between?

 

[Molly's Momma]

Does she get food only with the shots? Nothing in between?

She gets "mini" meals throughout the day. I try to do about 1-2 TBSP every other hour (sometimes 2-3 if she's feeling ravenous lol). Should I be feeding her more? Should I do more like 1/4 a can 4x daily? I used to feed her 1/2 a can during shot time for a total of 1 can per day plus some extras (tuna, treats for taking her shots, etc) but she hasn't finished a 1/2 can in one sitting since before her hospitalization/DX.

 

[Bandit's Mom]

She gets "mini" meals throughout the day. I try to do about 1-2 TBSP every other hour (sometimes 2-3 if she's feeling ravenous lol). Should I be feeding her more? Should I do more like 1/4 a can 4x daily? I used to feed her 1/2 a can during shot time for a total of 1 can per day plus some extras (tuna, treats for taking her shots, etc) but she hasn't finished a 1/2 can in one sitting since before her hospitalization/DX.

Many small meals a day is good. But is she getting only 1 can a day? That seems too little. Where is she in terms of her ideal weight?

Also, if she has had a history of ketones/DKA, you want to get urine testing strips and test her urine at home for ketones. Here are tips to catch and test a urine sample:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub

You also want to feed 1.5x the number of calories to keep ketones at bay and also add a little water to her food to increase fluid intake.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...and-diabetic-cats-a-primer-on-ketones.239971/

 

[Molly's Momma]

Many small meals a day is good. But is she getting only 1 can a day? That seems too little. Where is she in terms of her ideal weight?

We are actually wanting her to gain more weight considering she lost almost half her body weight (10.4lbs - 6.4lbs) prior to her hospitalization (main reason for bringing her in that led to her DX) so it's such a relief to know that I can give her more!! She will get half a can thinned with some water when I return from picking the kiddo up from school (around +3 or +4). I just did her +1 test and it's at 302, hopefully it gets to some blues or greens later in the day.

Also, if she has had a history of ketones/DKA, you want to get urine testing strips and test her urine at home for ketones. Here are tips to catch and test a urine sample:

Are the urine testing strips next to the glucose meters at the stores? I remember seeing ketone test strips but I can't remember if they were blood testing strips or urine testing strips. Thank you for the linked guide!!

 

[Bandit's Mom]

Are the urine testing strips next to the glucose meters at the stores? I remember seeing ketone test strips but I can't remember if they were blood testing strips or urine testing strips. Thank you for the linked guide!!

You get blood ketone meters with strips but most of us just use urine testing strips (Ketostix) to test for ketones.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Ketone-Test-Strips-50-Count/33574014

 

[Molly's Momma]

+3 144

 

[Molly's Momma]

You get blood ketone meters with strips but most of us just use urine testing strips (Ketostix) to test for ketones.

Thank you so so much! I will grab some of these tomorrow when I do my errands.

 

[Molly's Momma]

+5.5 66 | 1/2 can wet paté mixed with 1/2 cup water

 

[Molly's Momma]

+9 179

 

[Wendy&Neko]

That +3 144 to +5.5 66 was quite the drop. I'm glad you fed her then. When you see a big drop, and it might not be nadir yet (hard to say when that is yet for Molly), I would have gotten a test soon, like within the hour, to make sure the food stopped her from dropping more. It was interesting to hear she was vocal at +3. She might have felt her numbers dropping fast and might have been trying to get attention, ie. food. Some cats will let you know when they are dropping low and fast.

I notice that you gave a Temptation treat at +1. Just so you know, those are very high carb. If you can, a low carb treat would be better. Like a freeze dried all meat treat.

 

[Molly's Momma]

That +3 144 to +5.5 66 was quite the drop. I'm glad you fed her then. When you see a big drop, and it might not be nadir yet (hard to say when that is yet for Molly), I would have gotten a test soon, like within the hour, to make sure the food stopped her from dropping more. It was interesting to hear she was vocal at +3. She might have felt her numbers dropping fast and might have been trying to get attention, ie. food. Some cats will let you know when they are dropping low and fast.

I notice that you gave a Temptation treat at +1. Just so you know, those are very high carb. If you can, a low carb treat would be better. Like a freeze dried all meat treat.

That's a wonderful point! I will keep that in mind for next time, I ended up testing her at +9 with 179 and her PMPS just now was 288 so I'm grateful she didn't drop too low. I'll definitely test on the hour marks when I see a big drop like that from now on. Thank you so so much! And as for the temptation treats, I just now threw them in the trash!! I will be going to the store tomorrow to look for better options. I read something about Fancy Feast having a single-ingredient treat as well. Please, if you have any recommendations send them my way.

 

[Molly's Momma]

PMPS 288 gave 0.75u

 

[Bandit's Mom]

+3 144

She was clearing the bounce this AM and bounce clearing cycles can have additional downward momentum. That 200 point drop from AMPS to +3 was an early indicator that this was going to be an active cycle. Some cats dive at onset. Bounces can be triggered not just by them dropping to numbers their bodies are unused to but also by sharp drops. We use food to "flatten the curve".

Using Food to Manipulate the Curve

PMPS 288 gave 0.75u

She might just bounce again from the greens she saw today. I see you gave the shot at 10:30pm. Are you moving shot time to 9am/9pm?

 

[Molly's Momma]

Are you moving shot time to 9am/9pm?

Yes, ma'am! Mainly, because I was afraid I was going to fall asleep and didn't want to risk her missing a shot/dose. I will do her AMPS at 10:00 AM tomorrow and hopefully Thursday's 9/28 AMPS can be at 9 AM