? 9/23/23 Lucy BG 106 help with test/shot

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Margie99

Margie99

Member Since 2023
Good morning I have started a new thread and as requested. I hope I’m doing this right! My AMPS is 106 that was with no food for 10 hours.
I forgot to wait for someone to tell me what I should do. I gave her a little bit of her KD wet and a small amount of the tiki wet. She just ate a very very small amount. This is been concerning me. I’m wondering if something else is going on with her? But she’s otherwise acting OK
 
I will be filling out my spreadsheet on my computer in just a little while. Thank you so much Bhooma!
 
Thank you for checking in. She did eat a good amount at 11:20. She had 2 tablespoons of the tiki cat chicken. (She’s really not that interested in her KD wet anymore…) She’s also had about a tablespoon of some dry which is a mix of the R/D K/D AND TIKI senior. Does that seem OK?
She’s also had much more energy. She was awake the majority of the morning. Normally she would just be fast asleep. She’s just more alert. Thank you again I’m planning to test her at +7 and +9 as well.
 
Hi Margie, Did I mention yesterday about getting some Ketostix from walmart or a pharmacy to check there are no ketones in the urine. I would feel more comfortable with you checking this seeing she has stopped the insulin fairly abruptly.
The reason is that diabetic cats can get ketones if they are not getting enough insulin and enough food...and it can progress to more serious things if not picked up early. I think it is unlikely she will have them but it is much better to check now. And I would encourage food.
I'm looking forward to seeing the SS data.
Do you live in the US? there are some low carb dry options if you think she will not eat all wet food.
 
Hi
No, I did not know about the keto sticks but I will pick some up. Are there symptoms I should be looking for with ketones?
Yes, I am in California.
PMPS 89
I did purchase tiki cat, senior health, dry food, chicken, and herring meal recipe. She really likes that I’ve been trying to find out what the carbohydrate content is in that food - asking on all their forums emailed them but I do know that they generally have low carbohydrate dry food from everything that I’ve seen with a percentage of a little over 20%. So I’m hoping that’s going be the same for the senior recipe. That being said, I would say she has probably had about a good tablespoon of that today which if my calculations are fairly correct is about 30 cal. She had a little bit of her KD wet this morning but she doesn’t really seem to want it. She has eaten all but about a tablespoon and a 1/2 of the canned tiki cat silver chicken Which I believe does not have any carbs and is 71 cal.
Any recommendations, of course are greatly appreciated regarding food.
I do believe I’ve learned enough at this point that I am not going to give her her insulin tonight with this number - she is otherwise more active and sleeps less since yesterday. She’s playful, she grooms, she’s otherwise acting like she feels good.
Thank you!!!
 
Let us know the result of the ketone test. It needs to be read 15 seconds after dipping it into the urine against the colours on the side of the bottle.
Can’t see any data on the SS yet.
Correct call to give no insulin.
Can you test 3 hours after you gave the PMPS meal (actually the PMBG) please so we can see if the BG goes down. That can indicate the the pancreas is working. And we know it is working but it would be interesting to see result.
Called the PMBG when you are taking the Preshot BG but not giving insulin.
 
I will get the testing strips tomorrow first thing.
Can I test her BG at 2.5 hours tonight? or is that too early?
Thank you again - I really cannot stop thanking all of you for your kindness and support - I feel so lucky to have found my way here :)
 
Hi Margie99,

Looks like you are getting some great advice! I just wanted to give you the link to some of the food lists:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

This is one of the sheets I found helpful with a list of low carb wet foods:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nMBzt57Zi0PcAJ-gSt0NxrTyc3Twi7A0L8o2H2gGkoM

You might be able to find low carb wet flavors she likes to mix in (I had luck buying several singles at the store and trying them out).

When I was looking into low carb dry foods it appears the lowest carb ones were the freeze dried foods like the Stella and Chewys is <4%

On Chewy they have this Q&A:

What is the actual carb % of this food?
Answer by [Chewy]
• Aug 21, 2020
Tiki Cat Born Carnivore Chicken & Herring Grain-Free Dry Cat Food has a carbohydrate content of approximately 11.4% on an as fed basis and 12.4% on a dry matter basis.

This is for the non-senior version of what I think you got. Chewy lists this nutritional info for it:

Caloric Content
3750 kcal/kg, 476 kcal/cup

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 43.0% min
Crude Fat 19.0% min
Crude Fiber 3.5% max
Moisture 10.0% max
Taurine 0.13% min
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 1.75% min
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.25% min


Where the senior version is(from tikicat site https://tikipets.com/product/tiki-c...hreds/senior-cat/chicken-herring-meal-recipe/):

Calorie Content
3785 kcal ME/kg
484 kcal ME/cup

Crude Protein (min) 40%
Crude Fat (min) 19%
Crude Fiber (max) 3.5%
Moisture (max) 10%
Phosphorus (min) 0.8%

Vitamin A (min) 30,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (min) 1,000 IU/kg
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* (min) 3.75%
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* (min) 2.5%

So it looks like the silver senior version has 3% less protein but not increase in fat or fiber or moisture so I suspect that means carbs got a boost. Maybe that means 16%? They sure don't make it easy. They oddly list that food in the mousse and shreds but maybe it's because it's new. It looks dry to me.

I hope everything goes well for Lucy!
 
Last edited:
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I’ll tag @Diane Tyler's Mom for information about low carb dry food. She lives in the US
Click to expand...
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE

Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90


I see the Dr Elsey's chicken is out of stock on both sites , it's lower than the salmon flavor


https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...8QFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw1btO3hygdQ_XQmpOJMpN6i

Also tap on this link it's from Dr Elseys site and lists all the carbs for the kibble you can
 
Last edited:
Shane and Baby said:
Hi Margie99,

Looks like you are getting some great advice! I just wanted to give you the link to some of the food lists:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

This is one of the sheets I found helpful with a list of low carb wet foods:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nMBzt57Zi0PcAJ-gSt0NxrTyc3Twi7A0L8o2H2gGkoM

You might be able to find low carb wet flavors she likes to mix in (I had luck buying several singles at the store and trying them out).

When I was looking into low carb dry foods it appears the lowest carb ones were the freeze dried foods like the Stella and Chewys is <4%

On Chewy they have this Q&A:

What is the actual carb % of this food?
Answer by [Chewy]
• Aug 21, 2020
Tiki Cat Born Carnivore Chicken & Herring Grain-Free Dry Cat Food has a carbohydrate content of approximately 11.4% on an as fed basis and 12.4% on a dry matter basis.

This is for the non-senior version of what I think you got. Chewy lists this nutritional info for it:

Caloric Content
3750 kcal/kg, 476 kcal/cup

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 43.0% min
Crude Fat 19.0% min
Crude Fiber 3.5% max
Moisture 10.0% max
Taurine 0.13% min
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 1.75% min
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.25% min


Where the senior version is(from tikicat site https://tikipets.com/product/tiki-c...hreds/senior-cat/chicken-herring-meal-recipe/):

Calorie Content
3785 kcal ME/kg
484 kcal ME/cup

Crude Protein (min) 40%
Crude Fat (min) 19%
Crude Fiber (max) 3.5%
Moisture (max) 10%
Phosphorus (min) 0.8%

Vitamin A (min) 30,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E (min) 1,000 IU/kg
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* (min) 3.75%
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* (min) 2.5%

So it looks like the silver senior version has 3% less protein but not increase in fat or fiber or moisture so I suspect that means carbs got a boost. Maybe that means 16%? They sure don't make it easy. They oddly list that food in the mousse and shreds but maybe it's because it's new. It looks dry to me.

I hope everything goes well for Lucy!
Click to expand...
Oh my goodness, this is so helpful! Thank you so very very much:-)
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE

Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90


I see the Dr Elsey's chicken is out of stock on both sites , it's lower than the salmon flavor


https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...8QFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw1btO3hygdQ_XQmpOJMpN6i

Also tap on this link it's from Dr Elseys site and lists all the carbs for the kibble you can
Click to expand...

Thank you so much I’m going to look into these! I don’t understand why carbohydrate content is not listed regularly on cat food. I guess it just puts our research skills to work! Thank you again.;-)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
yes, that would be fine
Here is your previous thread for continuity https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/sept-21-2023-lucy-bg-77-help.281824/
Click to expand...

I just tested and BG 96 - I also forgot that I gave a bit more wet food about 1.5 hours ago :-( I have been trying to be really good writing down when, and how much she eats. and I forgot that. She did just exhibit a really good appetite, she ate pretty much all that was left of her can of tiki cat wet and a rounded tsp of her k/d wet - she ate with gusto! I will test her tomorrow for ketones for sure.
 
89 and 96 are basically the same with meter variance.
That is really good she is eating well. That is important.
I can see you have been given lots of options for food by Diane and Shane
Have a good sleep:)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
89 and 96 are basically the same with meter variance.
That is really good she is eating well. That is important.
I can see you have been given lots of options for food by Diane and Shane
Have a good sleep:)
Click to expand...
That is good to hear. I appreciate so much all of the expert advice, it alleviates so much stress and worry. Yes, I’m going to be doing some investigating tomorrow of the different food options available. Thank you so much.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Hi. I wondered how you were doing. I mainly look in on the LLB forum. I see she’s still in not,Al bg without insulin. I think she has an excellent chance at becoming food controlled if she will eat lc food.
Click to expand...
I think I’m understanding most of these abbreviations, and in my heart I am feeling the same thing. I am clearly not that experienced but I wanted to get her off the high carb food because I knew it wasn’t good for her and I knew it would change what was happening with the insulin, I didn’t think it would happen this fast. I was going to try to do it slowly, but here we are and she has for the last two nights not been sleeping in her bed, but sitting out in her catio watching the raccoons, she’s just… Better. :-)
 
tiffmaxee said:
That is exactly what we want to see, her feeling good. We used to ask about the 5 p’s as a cat’s well being is not just about bg. We want to see them peeing. purring. playing , pooping peeing, and preening happily. More of my typos were corrected by me. ;)
Click to expand...
I love that! The five P’s that is great to hear a holistic way of looking at health and well-being. I’m so grateful for all of you.:-)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Margie don’t forget to add the data into the SS please. We are very data driven.
Click to expand...

I absolutely will. I’m just waking up and put it in my phone - as soon as I get my computer going this morning I am absolutely going to and I should note I the first time I tried testing was 9/20 in the middle of the day as a practice, so I only have data as of 9/21 so if it looks like a bunch is missing from before I don’t have any :-)
 
I have been reading through the forum. It looks like I should be testing AM and PM right now? She may be in a OTJ Trial? Am I correct? I just ordered the Vital Essentials freeze dried treats to help with testing. I have portioned out her food for the day and hoping to have her eat 1-1/2 cans Tiki Cat Chicken and approximately 2 tbsp of Tiki Cat Senior Dry (she loves this one). If this continues to go well, she will still be diabetic but diet- controlled. I would need to test her AM and PM weekly for the 1st month and thereafter, should all go well (praying), test her monthly, forever - am I on the right track here? Also, going to do my best to catch her peeing to test ketone levels - I just missed one pee. Thank you for being here and helping me.
 
Yes, there is currently an out-of-stock situation with Dr. Elsey's Cleanprotein dry cat food. I am in the forum today searching for alternatives as I did not remember all of them, only that 2 of them I tried caused gastro upset. Thanks for the listing.
On the Dr. Elsey's issue, eBay is now selling the 2lb bag for $109! Clearly gouging due to the predicament we find ourselves in. (During COVID, the Dr. Elsey's turkey flavor was "temporarily out of stock" and never came back. That was my cat's fave.) Amazon yesterday was also selling the 2lb bags for $25 (regular price for this size is $17.) I reported both sellers for price gouging.
I have been able to keep Sister regulated for 2 years using this food, so I get panicky when it is not regularly available. Perhaps I should have been hoarding it.
 
Just wanted to share some information for anyone using DASUQUIN For Cats Joint Health Supplement Sprinkle Capsules - I spoke with the pharmacy tech at Nutramax and she said each capsule contains 154mg carbohydrate. This product has really helped Lucy, but out of fear of giving more Carbs, I have withheld it over the last 4-days and I can see her front leg limp is coming back. I think it is safe to continue to provide her one capsule each day (thinking 1/2 in the AM and 1/2 in the PM). Any thoughts on this from more experienced folks?
 
Great there are no ketones. Keep testing every couple of days for the moment. We want to make sure none appear while we monitor her without insulin.
Is she eating well?. That is important.
I would give the DASUQUIN again and see how she goes with it. You don’t want another problem reappearing when you have a treatment for it. If it does raise the BGs there are other treatments you could look at.
 
Thank you. OK I will keep testing for keytones. Start her back on her joint supplement see how that goes. She is eating - getting through one can of tiki cat wet which is 71 cal and I’m giving her 2 tablespoons of the tiki cat dry, plus she’s getting some freeze dried treats. I think she’s probably not happy about the lack of carbs and she’s protesting a little but she does come to eat. I did order “young again, zero carb dry food”. I guess I could say she has an appetite. She’s eating, but not like she was two weeks ago when she had all her carb rich food.
 
I’m giving her the dry which is low carb because it is the one thing that she will definitely eat but I don’t want to load her up on that so if my calculations are right she’s getting about 60 cal of dry - 70 of the wet probably about 10 or so of the freeze dried treats so about 140 cal - Prior to that she was getting 150 to 160 does that seem OK?
 
Margie99 said:
I’m giving her the dry which is low carb because it is the one thing that she will definitely eat but I don’t want to load her up on that so if my calculations are right she’s getting about 60 cal of dry - 70 of the wet probably about 10 or so of the freeze dried treats so about 140 cal - Prior to that she was getting 150 to 160 does that seem OK?
Click to expand...
I don’t think 140 calories is enough. How much does she weigh?
Cats should eat between 24 and 35 calories per pound of weight a day. Or 45 calories per kg a day on average.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I don’t think 140 calories is enough. How much does she weigh?
Cats should eat between 24 and 35 calories per pound of weight a day. Or 45 calories per kg a day on average.
Click to expand...
So she is 13 pounds she’s a small cat she needs to weigh 10 she probably be good at 9 but 10 is ideal. I read on the cat info page that it was 15 cal times the wy they’re supposed to be (?)
I don’t want to maintain her at 13 pounds, because she’s really round - she is small. So I am trying to help her lose weight, which that restricted diet food from hills did not help at all. So if she needs to be losing weight, should those calories be the same (24-35)?
 
Margie99 said:
So she is 13 pounds she’s a small cat she needs to weigh 10 she probably be good at 9 but 10 is ideal. I read on the cat info page that it was 15 cal times the wy they’re supposed to be (?)
I don’t want to maintain her at 13 pounds, because she’s really round - she is small. So I am trying to help her lose weight, which that restricted diet food from hills did not help at all. So if she needs to be losing weight, should those calories be the same (24-35)?
Click to expand...
Ok if you are trying to get her to lose weight then it is different but you don’t want her to lose weight quickly and certainly not while we are seeing if she is ok with no insulin.
Another equation is 30 times body weight in kg +70. Then to lose weight, offer 70% of that.
I’m not very experienced in getting cats to lose weight as I try and keep my cats lean after my experience with FD. I’ll tag @tiffmaxee as she may be able to help more. but I would not actively try and get her to lose weight while we are transitioning her off insulin.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Ok if you are trying to get her to lose weight then it is different but you don’t want her to lose weight quickly and certainly not while we are seeing if she is ok with no insulin.
Another equation is 30 times body weight in kg +70. Then to lose weight, offer 70% of that.
I’m not very experienced in getting cats to lose weight as I try and keep my cats lean after my experience with FD. I’ll tag @tiffmaxee as she may be able to help more. but I would not actively try and get her to lose weight while we are transitioning her off insulin.
Click to expand...



oh my. OK this is so much to consider.
So I’ve been trying to help her lose weight for the last year so she’s been on anywhere from 170 to 150 cal a day during that time and during the time she has been receiving insulin, she has been on a 150 to 160 cal a day diet.

Should I be giving her more of the tiki cat dry that has some carbs to make up for what she’s not eating with the wet food so she’s back to 150/60 cal a day?

Or should I be giving her even more calories because she’s not getting insulin?

I’m feeling confused and I’m feeling worried now, however, she is behaviorally doing well. I hope I’m making sense. I’m just so worried so often that I’m doing something wrong. Thank you again for everything. It’s so much to learn, and I appreciate all of this advice. Thank you for tagging @tiffmaxee
 
Don’t be worried. You are not doing anything wrong.
She is well and that is the main thing.
For the next few weeks I would feed her what she should be getting for her ideal weight. Then when it’s been established that she is fine without insulin you can think about her losing some weight.
You will always have to keep her on a low carb diet and test each month forever because she is still a diabetic, she is just a diet controlled diabetic.
How does that sound?. And let’s see what @tiffmaxee thinks.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Don’t be worried. You are not doing anything wrong.
She is well and that is the main thing.
For the next few weeks I would feed her what she should be getting for her ideal weight. Then when it’s been established that she is fine without insulin you can think about her losing some weight.
You will always have to keep her on a low carb diet and test each month forever because she is still a diabetic, she is just a diet controlled diabetic.
How does that sound?. And let’s see what @tiffmaxee thinks.
Click to expand...

thank you so much for the words encouragement. And yes that sounds great. Thank you.
 
Margie99 said:
oh my. OK this is so much to consider.
I’m feeling confused and I’m feeling worried now, however, she is behaviorally doing well. I hope I’m making sense. I’m just so worried so often that I’m doing something wrong. Thank you again for everything. It’s so much to learn, and I appreciate all of this advice. Thank you for tagging @tiffmaxee
Click to expand...
Sending Big Hugs. We have all been where you are. You are doing great! You follow advice and understand what you need to do. You are miles ahead of peeps who never find this forum. ♥️
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE

Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90


I see the Dr Elsey's chicken is out of stock on both sites , it's lower than the salmon flavor


https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...8QFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw1btO3hygdQ_XQmpOJMpN6i

Also tap on this link it's from Dr Elseys site and lists all the carbs for the kibble you can
Click to expand...

I just received this information from TikiCat regarding carb content on the Dry Senior Chicken and Herring Meal :
Tiki Cat Dry Senior Carb content.jpg
 

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