09/11 Fistuk AMPS 353, +4 302, +6 263

Fistuk & Shelly

Fistuk & Shelly

Member Since 2023
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/10-09-fistuk-amps-326.281402/#post-3103077

Good morning :)

I think Fistuk is going through a dark night of the soul. Or just defending the pinks. Whatever it is he's just not moving away from his post :/

He's been quite sleepy yesterday. It's all about food, drinking lakes, peeing, and needles... At least there are no ketones, at least he's not refusing food (I've managed daily to increase the food intake), but he's hardly eating by himself. I've increased the Onda. dose to 2mg as Wendy suggested. Lets see if it makes a difference.
 
shellys said:
He's been quite sleepy yesterday.
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That can happen in higher numbers. As well as the excess peeing and drinking.

shellys said:
At least there are no ketones, at least he's not refusing food (I've managed daily to increase the food intake), but he's hardly eating by himself. I've increased the Onda. dose to 2mg as Wendy suggested. Lets see if it makes a difference.
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So he's happy to be syringe-fed but not eating by himself? At one point I was giving Bandit 2mg of Ondansetron every 8 hours.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
That can happen in higher numbers. As well as the excess peeing and drinking.
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Yes, I can already tell when he's in the neighbourhood of 18-19 by his energy, the way he breathes and the peeing/drinking... I really didn't need to even test him this morning to know

Bandit's Mom said:
So he's happy to be syringe-fed but not eating by himself?
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Happy? well. He's not so happy anymore. He's taking it. Sometimes he has this cute enthusiastic look at the syringe but even that began to diminish and I just feed him and he takes it in I guess bc he loves me :kiss:

I will try the same today which is why I gave him 2mg. I'll give it every 8 hours and see what it does.
 
shellys said:
I'm going to take a +4 today. What do you think @Bandit's Mom
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Sorry! I was out and only just saw this. I was thinking you could start with a later test too :)


shellys said:
maybe it was an inspired thought to give +4 a try today. Will test again at +6 and see if it's a trend or just numbers I've missed when didn't test after +3
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I don't think you've missed any lows. His onset is usually at +3 and he has been higher at +3 for the last 4 cycles. You can get a +6 or even a +7. It's possible he might keep going lower till PMPS.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Sorry! I was out and only just saw this. I was thinking you could start with a later test too :)
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As the saying goes great minds think a like

Bandit's Mom said:
I don't think you've missed any lows. His onset is usually at +3 and he has been higher at +3 for the last 4 cycles. You can get a +6 or even a +7. It's possible he might keep going lower till PMPS.
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Yes, I think so too... Well paws crossed
 
shellys said:
Also his heart breathes per minute is increased. Normally it’s around 30 per minute now it’s about 40
@Bandit's Mom
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What do you mean his heart breathes? Do you mean his breathing?
Ae you taking them when he is resting quietly?
I have to head to bed now as it is late where I live and I have to be up early tomorrow. Hopefully @Bandit's Mom will be along a bit later.
 
Jusr recalled that I gave him a drop of CBD oil in the morning. I haven't for a while. It never affected him like this. But worth mentioning that there's that in the mix
 
Well I gave him 2mg now and I hope he'll get better. It looks like he's just getting more and more nauseated. Hunched back and no interest in food. At night when he wakes up for pee and then goes to the plate he eats with such vigour that I think 'ah. At last!' but it lasts for a couple of bites and then he stops eating

Do you have any thoughts about the ear scratching
 
So 60ml SQ went in as quick as a blink. And he ate the liver pate afterwards which is very encouraging because he made a sour face went I topped the syringe during the day with his favourite liver pate. Well, he's def challenging us in new ways
 
Bandit's Mom said:
A couple of days back you said he was eating happily if fed with a syringe. Has that changed?
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yes it has. he's no longer happy about it. Sometimes he does have that cute excited look at the syringes which tells me he might like the idea but put off by the smell of food which means nausea.

you should have seen him after the SQ session. He was purring and asked for his favourite belly scratch :woot:

I'm going to take a +10 now and leave shortly the house and then take pmps.... but I guess it's clear that I'm holding the dose, right?
 
So it was a flat no. I managed to squeeze perhaps 20g into him. He now gets very angry. I gave him the shot. and will try to feed him again in an hour. I don't know what I'll do if he refuses to eat.

And as per usual I didn't get a call back from the vet...
 
shellys said:
yes it has. he's no longer happy about it. Sometimes he does have that cute excited look at the syringes which tells me he might like the idea but put off by the smell of food which means nausea.
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I think you want to continue the Ondansetron at 2mg thrice a day.

shellys said:
I'm going to take a +10 now and leave shortly the house and then take pmps.... but I guess it's clear that I'm holding the dose, right?
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Sorry, I only just saw this. Yes, hold the dose. Let's see what he does tonight. If he heads up from here, I would increase him to 5U tomorrow morning.

shellys said:
So it was a flat no. I managed to squeeze perhaps 20g into him. He now gets very angry. I gave him the shot. and will try to feed him again in an hour. I don't know what I'll do if he refuses to eat.
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Any chance he will have a different food? Keep a separate type of food for syringe feeding. He might develop an aversion to that. Feed other flavours/foods when you are offering him food and he eats by himself.
 
Hea
Bandit's Mom said:
If he heads up from here
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Heads up to what numbers ?


Bandit's Mom said:
Feed other flavours/foods when you are offering him food and he eats by himself.
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I tried offering from the plate one that he quite likes but he’s just not eating by himself. I’ll try to separate types foods.

I may have over did it with the food at +11. I should have given him less perhaps. I’m trying to get him up with the calories but as I keep I’m saying he’s not a great eater which makes it now

I’ll try give him more at +1.5. If he doesn’t eat properly shall I keep giving him food every two hours during the night?
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Do you have a sense of how many calories he is getting vs how much he should get?
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Well the goal for him is 300-400 cal a day. Gill said that I probably won't be able to get that much into him (she was right) and that I could start aiming at 300.
So far I've managed around 270 to nearly 300 per 24 hours. Yesterday was more and the most so far. Around 330. Today we're at 190! so we've got a way to go...

The “before” Fistuk used to eat irregular quantities and he could have had one day big appetite and the following day would eat very little. Yesterday was a big eating day

I def need the sleep but also am concerned about him not having enough food.

Shall I test the usual +3 to see where he's headed?
 
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shellys said:
Well the goal for him is 300-400 cal a day. Gill said that I probably won't be able to get that much into him (she was right) and that I could start aiming at 300.
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I'm sure you have had this discussion before on how many calories you should feed him, but assuming that 4.4 kgs is his ideal weight (?):
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70 = (13.6 X 4.4 X 2.2) + 70 = approx 200 calories per day
For DKA cats you want to feed 1.5X the number of calories so that works out to 300 calories

@Bron and Sheba (GA) is our go-to person for DKA (I have no experience) so she will correct me if I am wrong on the above.

I'm sure this too must have also been suggested, but have you thought about feeding a food with a higher fat%? Fat gives you more calories than protein, so you could get more calories into him with less amount of food.



shellys said:
Shall I test the usual +3 to see where he's headed?
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Sounds good. Try and get some food into him at +1.5 and then +3.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I'm sure this too must have also been suggested, but have you thought about feeding a food with a higher fat%? Fat gives you more calories than protein, so you could get more calories into him with less amount of food.
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That hasn’t been suggested before. I’ll have to look what that could be. Do you know which food has that. Feeding less would be ideal
 
Do you think he could have a UTI if he is peeing on the floor?
Appetite any better?
Is he still lethargic?
He has had a lovely run of yellows today. And good there are no ketones.
Keep up with the food:)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Do you think he could have a UTI if he is peeing on the floor?
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I think they checked that at the hospital but I'll have to ask them to confirm

Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Appetite any better?
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not at all :/ He's eating by himself a couple of bites and he's done! then I give him food with a syringe and he's not happy about it

Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Is he still lethargic?
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bit less but yes. He was purring a lot last night. At +4 when I gave him food he was very cuddly in a way that he hasn't for a while. But that'sit. He's sitting or lying most of the time and gets up only to pee. His back legs seem quite shaky, hard to walk on.

Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
He has had a lovely run of yellows today. And good there are no ketones.
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that was encouraging. and quite a downer to see him climbing up to the pinkies
 
Bandit had the same problem after a few months of DX. Weak back legs, would have to keep sitting down when going from place A to B. Would not be able to walk to the litter box. We had to carry her to the litter box a couple of times a day. Because of the neuropathy she stopped moving around and would lie in bed all day and night looking listless and miserable.

Are you giving Fistuk methyl-B12 for the neuropathy?
 
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