New Member, Advice Welcome!

[Nick & Binx]

Hey everybody,
My cat Binx was just diagnosed on Tuesday. I'm unsure of the advice given by the vet for treatment, and would like everyone's thoughts on the situation before I make any big changes.

He had weight loss, increased urination, and increased thirst (thirst and urination are still ongoing, but it's only been a few days)

Went to the vet, they diagnosed him, and prescribed 1u of Prozinc twice daily. He has been eating dry Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and stomach for a few years, and was getting 4 small meals a day through an automatic feeder. They prescribed him Hills dry m/d. I said I was more than willing to switch him over to wet food since I read here that it is better for all cats, and my vet suggested that I try with switching the dry food first (I thought this was weird). Come to find out last night, not only is the food I was giving him before significantly higher quality, it appears it is lower in carbs. In addition to this, he had a BG reading of 117 AMPS yesterday, I called the vet before giving him insulin and they told me I was good to do it anyways. After spending time reading here, it makes me question if that was the right choice.

I just purchased some of the suggested FF on Amazon, and am going today to the pet store to grab a few cans for immediate use as well as some freeze-dried treats to give him after all his poking and inhalers (poor little guy hates the inhaler more than the insulin).

I want to transition him to the wet food, but am concerned about moving too quickly, both because of his BG potentially dropping as well as his sensitive stomach.
Does anyone have any thoughts on how I should go about making the switch?

 

[Nick & Binx]

Hey everybody,
My cat Binx was just diagnosed on Tuesday. I'm unsure of the advice given by the vet for treatment, and would like everyone's thoughts on the situation before I make any big changes.

He had weight loss, increased urination, and increased thirst (thirst and urination are still ongoing, but it's only been a few days)

Went to the vet, they diagnosed him, and prescribed 1u of Prozinc twice daily. He has been eating dry Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and stomach for a few years, and was getting 4 small meals a day through an automatic feeder. They prescribed him Hills dry m/d. I said I was more than willing to switch him over to wet food since I read here that it is better for all cats, and my vet suggested that I try with switching the dry food first (I thought this was weird). Come to find out last night, not only is the food I was giving him before significantly higher quality, it appears it is lower in carbs. In addition to this, he had a BG reading of 117 AMPS yesterday, I called the vet before giving him insulin and they told me I was good to do it anyways. After spending time reading here, it makes me question if that was the right choice.

I just purchased some of the suggested FF on Amazon, and am going today to the pet store to grab a few cans for immediate use as well as some freeze-dried treats to give him after all his poking and inhalers (poor little guy hates the inhaler more than the insulin).

I want to transition him to the wet food, but am concerned about moving too quickly, both because of his BG potentially dropping as well as his sensitive stomach.
Does anyone have any thoughts on how I should go about making the switch?

In addition to this, I was giving him about 247 calories a day of his previous food (he is 18lbs and chunky, have been trying to promote weight loss) but the vet prescribed him a serving of the prescription food that is 315 calories a day, which I feel like goes against what we should be working towards with him. I'm trying to figure out how much FF he should get in a day, and I think I'm coming to the conclusion that he should get about 1.5 cans a meal, 3 cans a day. Does that sound about normal for anyone else who has a large cat?

Thanks!

 

[Shelley & Jess]

Hi & Welcome!
I'm gonna comment on the dose increase this morning - I know seeing that pink pre-shot test makes you think he may need more insulin but that's not always the case. I'm mentioning this right away because of that 117 preshot reading you got a couple days ago - Binx may be 'bouncing' from that low PS number a couple of days ago and when he clears the bounce the increase may be a little too much for him, but, you're home testing looks like it's going well, so keep gathering the data and we will see if he really needs that increase.

There's alot of good guidance to be found in the yellow sticky notes pinned at the top of the Prozinc ISG.

I'm gonna tag @Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) for you - she's awesome with getting new members sorted out with feeding & food transitions & calories.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Welcome and great job on having both your signature and spreadsheet setup!

A good rule of thumb is 20 times ideal weight for the daily calorie intake. If you think he should be less than 18 pounds, like maybe 15, you should be giving him 300 calories a day. The amount of cans depends on the amount of calories of each but 3 of FF Classic a day sounds about right. If however, you want him to stay at 18, then you need to feed about 360 calories a day. Unregulated diabetic cats can lose weight because they can’t process the nutrients in food well, so you may want to feed a bit more until he’s regulated.

I would stay at the 1 unit a day as Shelley mentioned, he could have dropped much lower after that 117 and could be bouncing now (a bit more abou that below). Our advice for beginners when you get a preshot value below 200 is to do one of these: stall without food and post asking for help, then retest in 20 minutes to see if the bg going up on its own. You can also give a token dose instead of the regular dose, 15-20% of the regular dose or you can skip the shot.

Also, take a look at the link Shelley provided as it has a ton of great info about prozinc and the dosing methods. Make sure to read all the yellow sticky notes there. Our most common dosing method for prozinc is called SLGS and you’d hold the dose for at least 7 days before making a dose adjustment, unless his bg drops below 90 on a human meter. Can you start testing before each shot every day and also at least twice more during the day? The goal is to try to catch how low the dose is taking him so a test around +5 or +6 would help with that. We also encourage folks to get the +2 at night before going to bed so you can get a sense or where he’s headed overnight.

did they diagnose him with a fructosamine test?

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.

Bouncing is a kitty's self defense mechanism. Here is the description:

Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

 

[Nick & Binx]

Hi & Welcome!
I'm gonna comment on the dose increase this morning - I know seeing that pink pre-shot test makes you think he may need more insulin but that's not always the case. I'm mentioning this right away because of that 117 preshot reading you got a couple days ago - Binx may be 'bouncing' from that low PS number a couple of days ago and when he clears the bounce the increase may be a little too much for him, but, you're home testing looks like it's going well, so keep gathering the data and we will see if he really needs that increase.

There's alot of good guidance to be found in the yellow sticky notes pinned at the top of the Prozinc ISG.

I'm gonna tag @Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) for you - she's awesome with getting new members sorted out with feeding & food transitions & calories.

Thank you very much! I somewhat panicked this morning with his BG being high, I appreciate you letting me know. He just started insulin, so I know I should not mess with it while he gets adjusted. Thanks!

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

It’s totally normal at the beginning to freak out jays as much when you get a high number as when you get a low one. The instinct is to raise the dose, but just remember to have patience. It takes sometimes months for a cat to be regulated and we like to say here that feline diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. I think it’s a great sign they you already saw a number below 200 in just a few days on insulin. He may not even require 1 unit and once you transition to a lower carb food, you may see that go down even more. A lot of cats can go into remission simply with the food change.

 

[Nick & Binx]

Welcome and great job on having both your signature and spreadsheet setup!

A good rule of thumb is 20 times ideal weight for the daily calorie intake. If you think he should be less than 18 pounds, like maybe 15, you should be giving him 300 calories a day. The amount of cans depends on the amount of calories of each but 3 of FF Classic a day sounds about right. If however, you want him to stay at 18, then you need to feed about 360 calories a day. Unregulated diabetic cats can lose weight because they can’t process the nutrients in food well, so you may want to feed a bit more until he’s regulated.

I would stay at the 1 unit a day as Shelley mentioned, he could have dropped much lower after that 117 and could be bouncing now (a bit more abou that below). Our advise for beginners when you get a preshot value below 200 is to do one of these: stall without food and post asking for help, then retest in 20 minutes to see if the bg going up on its own. You can also give a token dose instead of the regular dose, 15-20% of the regular dose or you can skip the shot.

Also, take a look at the link Shelley provided as it has a ton of great info about prozinc and the dosing methods. Make sure to read all the yellow sticky notes there. Our most common dosing method for prozinc is called SLGS and you’d hold the dose for at least 7 days before making a dose adjustment, unless his bg drops below 90 on a human meter. Can you start testing before each shot every day and also at least twice more during the day? The goal is to try to catch how low the dose is taking him so a test around +5 or +6 would help with that. We also encourage folks to get the +2 at night before going to bed so you can get a sense or where he’s headed overnight.

did they diagnose him with a fructosamine test?

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.

Bouncing is a kitty's self defense mechanism. Here is the description:

Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

Thank you! I'll start the transition tonight and give him a little extra food if that's the case.

I'm not entirely sure how they diagnosed him, but when I return in a week and a half I am going to get all of his tests and upload them. It was a lot of information all at once, between his asthma and diabetes, that I had trouble taking it all in.

I intend to increase my testing as much as I can! I feel bad, because I'm still learning how to test well and his little ears are getting beat up. I'm trying my best to follow the instructions to reduce any harm. I am about to take another test in 20 minutes to see his +6 BG.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Nick & Binx]

It’s totally normal at the beginning to freak out jays as much when you get a high number as when you get a low one. The instinct is to raise the dose, but just remember to have patience. It takes sometimes months for a cat to be regulated and we like to say here that feline diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. I think it’s a great sign they you already saw a number below 200 in just a few days on insulin. He may not even require 1 unit and once you transition to a lower carb food, you may see that go down even more. A lot of cats can go into remission simply with the food change.

I'm hoping the food will make a big impact! I'm just concerned that the insulin dose will be too high when he fully switches over, so I am going to be doing a lot of extra testing. @a

 

[Nick & Binx]

Update - his +6 is 348. He is acting very skittish, which is normally isn't. I think all the poking is giving him extra stress, he really doesn't like his BG being taken ):

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

There are a few things that can make testing a bit easier. For example, are you warming up the ears? A lot of us use an old sock we fill up with rice and nuke for about 20-30 seconds. Then you hold it up to the ear till it’s warm to the touch. It helps get the blood circulation going and it makes a big difference in getting a decent size droplet. Are you giving him a treat immediately after each test to build up positive association? Minnie also had asthma and she was very food motivated so she always got a treat after each test and the inhaler too. @Diane Tyler's Mom has a lot of other tips she can share with you, including aiming for the sweet spot. I also always sang a lullaby to calm us both down. It may sound silly, but it worked. You also want to always put pressure on the spot afterwards for a few seconds with a cotton oval so it wont bruise.

what size lancet gauge are you using?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Welcome Nick and Binx
Would you mind adding the meter you are using to your signature also
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.
I have always used a human meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Do you have your hypo kit set up in case you have to bring his BG up
For your Hypo kit
Med and High Carb food and some honey/karo



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-




10% and under is low carb
from The Official Lantus, Levemir & Biosimilars Slang Dictionary MC =11=15% and HC is usually 16-24%

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

If his ears look sore or a little beat up
Get pure coconut oil
I have read that many members use pure coconut oil, I have copied this from one of the members posts
just make sure the only ingredient is coconut oil (mine is solid at room temp and I would take an itty bitty dab and rub on his ears)
It seemed to help with the healing
You might be able to get it at a health food store or just Google pure coconut oil

 

[Nick & Binx]

Update - his +6 is 348. He is acting very skittish, which is normally isn't. I think all the poking is giving him extra stress, he really doesn't like his BG being taken ):

Update, he is still hiding. Won't come out for treats, but will take a little piece of dehydrated chicken if I crawl under the bed and give it to him.

 

[Nick & Binx]

There are a few things that can make testing a bit easier. For example, are you warming up the ears? A lot of us use an old sock we fill up with rice and nuke for about 20-30 seconds. Then you hold it up to the ear till it’s warm to the touch. It helps get the blood circulation going and it makes a big difference in getting a decent size droplet. Are you giving him a treat immediately after each test to build up positive association? Minnie also had asthma and she was very food motivated so she always got a treat after each test and the inhaler too. @Diane Tyler's Mom has a lot of other tips she can share with you, including aiming for the sweet spot. I also always sang a lullaby to calm us both down. It may sound silly, but it worked. You also want to always put pressure on the spot afterwards for a few seconds with a cotton oval so it wont bruise.

what size lancet gauge are you using?

Yes, I've been using the rice sock! I've also been putting a touch of Vasoline on his ear to help draw out the blood.

I do my best to give him a treat right away, no matter what he gets lots of scritches. It doesn't seem to be persuading enough for him. It doesn't help that it always takes me a minimum of two tries.

I haven't been putting pressure on it after, I don't have any cottonballs or anything. Maybe he is hiding and doesn't like it because his ears are sore? Should I maybe not test for a few days to let it heal? The paw pad is out of question, he hates his paw getting touched.

I'm unsure of the lancet gauge, it is the ones that came with my Glucometer. I just ordered some 30g last night, though.

Thanks!

 

[Nick & Binx]

Welcome Nick and Binx
Would you mind adding the meter you are using to your signature also
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.
I have always used a human meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

Thank you for the tips!

I've been using the lancing device, because I've been a little shaky and last time I freehanded it I made him bleed more than I meant to, and felt really bad. But it is harder to aim with the device.

 

[Nick & Binx]

If his ears look sore or a little beat up
Get pure coconut oil
I have read that many members use pure coconut oil, I have copied this from one of the members posts
just make sure the only ingredient is coconut oil (mine is solid at room temp and I would take an itty bitty dab and rub on his ears)
It seemed to help with the healing
You might be able to get it at a health food store or just Google pure coconut oil

I have some, I'll try using a little later, when he stops hiding :/

 

[Nick & Binx]

Do you have your hypo kit set up in case you have to bring his BG up
For your Hypo kit
Med and High Carb food and some honey/karo



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-




10% and under is low carb
, 10 - 15% is medium carb,
15% and over is high carbs
from The Official Lantus, Levemir & Biosimilars Slang Dictionary MC =11=15% and HC is usually 16-24%

No, I don't have a kit yet. I should make one today. I do have maple syrup and my vet said that would work. I also have dry food if I really need to use it. I just got back from the pet store, I got some of the FF classics, but I didn't see your comment until now or I would have gotten some high carb stuff. I'll try to grab some tomorrow.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

The 30 gauge is not good for beginners. We recommend 26 or 28. It could be why you’re having issues. I always free hand so I can see exactly what I’m doing so I can’t help with advice when it comes to the lancet device. I also found the clicking noise startled my cats. Are you sure you’re warming up the ear enough? Does it feel warm when you touch it before you test?

You do need something behind his ear to help apply pressure. I also used a cotton oval as a backing as I pricked the ear from the front. I used a flashlight so I could see the bevel side up going in. You can always practice in yourself.

I would not stop testing as you’ll need to see his levels especially if you’re food transitioning.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Are you having to do it twice because you’re not getting enough blood? Is that the main issue? Are you trying to milk the ear after? I’ve always had to milk the year to get more of the blood out. Id see a tiny dot then I’d milk it until it got big enough to test. I’d also scoop up the blood droplet onto my clean nail and test from there so if they flicked their ear, I wouldn’t lose the blood and have to retest.

 

[Nick & Binx]

The 30 gauge is not good for beginners. We recommend 26 or 28. It could be why you’re having issues. I always free hand so I can see exactly what I’m doing so I can’t help with advice when it comes to the lancet device. I also found the clicking noise startled my cats. Are you sure you’re warming up the ear enough? Does it feel warm when you touch it before you test?

You do need something behind his ear to help apply pressure. I also used a cotton oval as a backing as I pricked the ear from the front. I used a flashlight so I could see the bevel side up going in. You can always practice in yourself.

I would not stop testing as you’ll need to see his levels especially if you’re food transitioning.

I might not be warming it up enough, that could certainly be the issue. He isn't a huge fan of having his ears touched so I try to not force him to stay there too long. But it's a compounding issue now, because I'm concerned his ears are sore.
For the pressure, I've either used my finger, or the rice sock. I've poked myself a few times, so I know it's not a good idea. My vet didn't ever mention that home testing was an option, and her instructions on using insulin were to "look up a video online". I'm worried he might just be sore now. Between the new inhaler, insulin, switching to 2 meals a day, and the BG testing I think he is under a lot of stress.

Do you think it would be better to hold off entirely on giving him wet food, and just give him his insulin as normal tonight without a BG test (I know that you should always test before, and I've been trying to, but I'm afraid he is going to become so scared of the BG that he won't even come out for dinner. He won't come out from under the bed right now even for treats.)

I'm unsure of what to do. I'm trying to take all the right steps, but it just seems like a lot for him right now. I'm concerned I'm making it worse by doing too much all at once. He has never been a fan of change.

Are you having to do it twice because you’re not getting enough blood? Is that the main issue?

The main issue I believe is that I'm not hitting a good spot with the lancet device. I should really freehand, but the two times I did I made him bleed too much and I'm been such a wreck about him that my hands have been shaky. I'm sure he can feel my anxiety. I'll try freehanding later and see if that works better.

The 30 gauge is not good for beginners. We recommend 26 or 28. It could be why you’re having issues. I always free hand so I can see exactly what I’m doing so I can’t help with advice when it comes to the lancet device.

I'm not entirely sure of the gauge of the lancets I'm using, since they're the one's that came in my Contour Next One starter kit. I can't find info online about the gauge. I thought 30g would cause him less pain, but you suggest I go with a 26? Should I just start there and move to a 30g eventually, or is 26/28 where I should stay?

Thank you!

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Yes you start at 26 or 28 and as you get the hang of it, you move up to 30. I would have suggested you practice massaging his ears and get him used to you touching them, but we’re past that now. I’m afraid with the low 117 you got the other day, that not testing at least for the preshots could be dangerous. They do pick up on our anxiety and that’s why the singing helped me. Take a few deep breaths. We had all gotten too much blood every now and then and that’s not the end of the world. I think better than not enough honestly. Do try the milking. It’s just like when you’re trying to pop a pimple, only you’re doing a little gentler and to the ear. Aim for the spots on the pics Diane posted. Can someone help you hold him or distract him if needed?

don’t forget to give a treat for every test attempt whether it’s successful or not

Depending where you’re at financially, the libre can be an option instead of testing, but it’s expensive and you need a new one every 2 weeks that had to be put in by a vet. It can also get glitchy and some cats do manage to get it off.

 

[Nick & Binx]

Yes you start at 26 or 28 and as you get the hang of it, you move up to 30. I would have suggested you practice massaging his ears and get him used to you touching them, but we’re past that now. I’m afraid with the low 117 you got the other day, that not testing at least for the preshots could be dangerous. They do pick up on our anxiety and that’s why the singing helped me. Take a few deep breaths. We had all gotten too much blood every now and then and that’s not the end of the world. I think better than not enough honestly. Do try the milking. It’s just like when you’re trying to pop a pimple, only you’re doing a little gentler and to the ear. Aim for the spots on the pics Diane posted. Can someone help you hold him or distract him if needed?

don’t forget to give a treat for every test attempt whether it’s successful or not

Depending where you’re at financially, the libre can be an option instead of testing, but it’s expensive and you need a new one every 2 weeks that had to be put in by a vet. It can also get glitchy and some cats do manage to get it off.

Okay, thank you! My girlfriend has helped to hold him and pet him a bit when he gets really restless. He is getting a libre on the 19th so the vet can do a GC, so that should help. But it won't be sustainable for me to do it too regularly.

I appreciate your help. I'm trying to find a way to cox him out from under the bed, but he seems really nervous. I'm worried that he may not be feeling well. Maybe nausea? I'll have to keep an eye on him, he has been there for about 2.5/3 hours. I'm hoping he will come out by dinner. I put some water under there with him but he didn't seem interested.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!

I'm sorry that Binx's is hiding. If I had to play a hunch, I'd guess the switch to the MD has upset Binx's stomach. The MD is higher in fat than what you had been feeding. Many cats will have a GI upset if there is a rapid change in their diet. It may also be that he's a bit overwhelmed by all of the changes that have been going on.

With the Fancy Feast, I'm hoping that you purchased the pate style food that is low in carbs. It sounds like you've been doing a good deal of reading. I'm assuming you came across the chart we use that has nutritional information on most of the canned cat foods that are available. Once you have the canned food, make a slow transition.

When you describe Binx as having a sensitive stomach, can you say a bit more? What caused the vet to suggest the previous food?

You do not need to change Binx's food schedule. A diabetic cat does not need to be restricted to eating twice a day. This is an article on transitioning from dry to canned food. Making a slow transition will help to prevent any tummy upset as well as allow you to monitor blood glucose level so there are no big drops in numbers.

 

[Nick & Binx]

Welcome to FDMB!

I'm sorry that Binx's is hiding. If I had to play a hunch, I'd guess the switch to the MD has upset Binx's stomach. The MD is higher in fat than what you had been feeding. Many cats will have a GI upset if there is a rapid change in their diet. It may also be that he's a bit overwhelmed by all of the changes that have been going on.

I think the MD did upset his stomach. I was giving him 25/75 new/old food the first day, then 50/50 the next, and yesterday it was 50/50 for breakfast and 100% at dinner. I read the nutritional info on the bag last night and realized it was objectively lower quality than his old food, so I gave him his old food for breakfast.

With the Fancy Feast, I'm hoping that you purchased the pate style food that is low in carbs. It sounds like you've been doing a good deal of reading. I'm assuming you came across the chart we use that has nutritional information on most of the canned cat foods that are available. Once you have the canned food, make a slow transition.

Yes, it is the classic pate style. With his hiding and lack of water drinking the past few hours I was considering giving him maybe half a can in water around dinner, bringing it to him under the bed. I posted for advice in the ProZinc threads. If you have any additional advice, I'm all ears!

When you describe Binx as having a sensitive stomach, can you say a bit more? What caused the vet to suggest the previous food?

Ever since he was a kitten he has had loose stools easily with most changes in food. He also would have skin issues, so he was eating the Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach Turkey and Oats formula. I noticed a very loose stool earlier. He very rarely vomits, luckily. I have no idea why the vet told me to use the Hill's m/d food. I told them that I would be happy to switch him over to wet food since I read that it was better, but they insisted that I continue trying the dry food. In general, it felt very hard to get good information out of them. I plan to switch vets soon.

You do not need to change Binx's food schedule. A diabetic cat does not need to be restricted to eating twice a day. This is an article on transitioning from dry to canned food. Making a slow transition will help to prevent any tummy upset as well as allow you to monitor blood glucose level so there are no big drops in numbers.

See, the vet told me to switch him to two meals a day. The issue is that he gorges himself when I feed him. I feel very frustrated with the vet, and feel like I was given poor information.


He just came out from under the bed as I was typing this! Woo!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Vets get minimal training in nutrition when they are in school. The sales reps from the food companies "educate" the vets. The vet suggested MD because is is supposed to be a diabetic formulation. However, the pet food companies recently lost a class action suit for calling their food "prescription." There's nothing prescription in the food. In fact they now refer to MD as "dietetic" not diabetic.

I have a couple of thoughts.

• if loose stools are an occasional issue, a probiotic will be Binx's friend. S. boulardii is specific for this sort of GI issue and is nothing short of a miracle. Use about 1/4 of a capsule mixed into canned food. You can increase gradually to get things under control unless Binx is really in distress. Jarrow's or ReNew are reliable brands and available on Amazon.
• GI issues could mean a food sensitivity, allergy, or inflammatory bowel. I would stick with poultry since Binx was tolerating the turkey flavor of the Purina One. Alternatively, novel proteins are often recommended if a cat has inflammatory bowel.
• A raw diet is also an option but a lot more work is involved. We can direct you to information if you want to try that route.

If Binx will hoover down food that's put in front of him, you can break the meals into smaller portions. Give a bit more at shot time and then spread out the food over a few hours. I fed my cat at shot time, then additional food at +1, +2, and sometimes +3. Others will divide up the food and give additional "snacks" up until nadir (i.e., the lowest point in your cat's cycle).

 

[Nick & Binx]

Vets get minimal training in nutrition when they are in school. The sales reps from the food companies "educate" the vets. The vet suggested MD because is is supposed to be a diabetic formulation. However, the pet food companies recently lost a class action suit for calling their food "prescription." There's nothing prescription in the food. In fact they now refer to MD as "dietetic" not diabetic.

I have a couple of thoughts.

• if loose stools are an occasional issue, a probiotic will be Binx's friend. S. boulardii is specific for this sort of GI issue and is nothing short of a miracle. Use about 1/4 of a capsule mixed into canned food. You can increase gradually to get things under control unless Binx is really in distress. Jarrow's or ReNew are reliable brands and available on Amazon.
• GI issues could mean a food sensitivity, allergy, or inflammatory bowel. I would stick with poultry since Binx was tolerating the turkey flavor of the Purina One. Alternatively, novel proteins are often recommended if a cat has inflammatory bowel.
• A raw diet is also an option but a lot more work is involved. We can direct you to information if you want to try that route.

If Binx will hoover down food that's put in front of him, you can break the meals into smaller portions. Give a bit more at shot time and then spread out the food over a few hours. I fed my cat at shot time, then additional food at +1, +2, and sometimes +3. Others will divide up the food and give additional "snacks" up until nadir (i.e., the lowest point in your cat's cycle).

I think I will switch him back to smaller meals. I actually just got him some probiotic treats earlier from the pet store! They do have oat in them, so they likely aren't low-carb. But my thought is that one a day will do more good than harm.

Thank you for your advice!

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

I agree with Sienne and S Boulardii is specifically good for this. Unfortunately, not just any probiotic will do. Has he ever had an ultra sound to check his GI tract? I know it could also be a sign of IBD. You can also add Visbiome to his diet in addition to S Boulardii. It’s a great probiotic for the GI tract.

feeding only twice a day is very old fashioned advice. It works for dogs but not so much for cats. Most of us feed the 2 largest meals at shot times with 3-4 smaller meals or treats throughout the day. It’s easier on their pancreas and helps avoid bug sugar spikes too. Have you ever tried to give him freeze dried treats? A lot of folks here feed a raw food diet and swear by it so it may be worth looking into. I know some members like Sienne even make their own!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Get the cotton rounds to put behind his ear, any place has them supermarkets, drug stores Walgreen's, Walmart, your girlfriend will know what theses are

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

I just had another thought. Did you ever do a pcr fecal on him? That’s how I got to the bottom of why my foster kitty had non stop diarrhea. It may be worth a shot if nothing else works.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

D

Okay, thank you! My girlfriend has helped to hold him and pet him a bit when he gets really restless. He is getting a libre on the 19th so the vet can do a GC, so that should help. But it won't be sustainable for me to do it too regularly.

I appreciate your help. I'm trying to find a way to cox him out from under the bed, but he seems really nervous. I'm worried that he may not be feeling well. Maybe nausea? I'll have to keep an eye on him, he has been there for about 2.5/3 hours. I'm hoping he will come out by dinner. I put some water under there with him but he didn't seem interested.

The libre will buy you some time to get used to testing. Do you mean the curve will be done at the vet? It’s much better to do it at home. Your cat will be stressed at the vet and the bg numbers will all be elevated. Not to mention he might not be eating like he would at home.

 

[Nick & Binx]

I just had another thought. Did you ever do a pcr fecal on him? That’s how I got to the bottom of why my foster kitty had non stop diarrhea. It may be worth a shot if nothing else works.

No, I haven't had that done. I should, though. Lately the vet bills have just been insane so I need to wait a little bit, I think. I'm concerned he isn't getting enough nutrients between the loose stools and diabetes.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Just wanted to say hi and welcome to the forum.
Keep asking lots of questions. We are always happy to answer them.

 

[Mel Flagg]

Just wanted to throw in my experience on checking BG.

Marair is a very laid back cat, but he was NOT having me check BG in his ear. I tried. I've never seen him so mad. The only place he lets me check is his back paws. He will literally let me hold him like a baby, and I alternate feet. I honestly am so surprised at how good he is with it, even the vet was surprised tbh. I suspect he has early neuropathy in his back legs though, so it may be that he can't feel it as much.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

@Nick & Binx did you see my question about the curve and also about S Boulardii? If you hit like on the comment, it lets us know you reach them

 

[Nick & Binx]

D

The libre will buy you some time to get used to testing. Do you mean the curve will be done at the vet? It’s much better to do it at home. Your cat will be stressed at the vet and the bg numbers will all be elevated. Not to mention he might not be eating like he would at home.

No, the vet wants to just put the libre on him, the curve would be done at home. But I am going to cancel that appointment completely and try to find a vet that will work with me better. I won't let any vet keep him overnight for a curve. I'd rather just stay up and do it myself with him.

@Nick & Binx did you see my question about the curve and also about S Boulardii? If you hit like on the comment, it lets us know you reach them

Sorry! The probiotic treats I got him have S. Boulardii in them, but he doesn't seem to be a big fan of the taste lol.

 

[Nick & Binx]

Just wanted to throw in my experience on checking BG.

Marair is a very laid back cat, but he was NOT having me check BG in his ear. I tried. I've never seen him so mad. The only place he lets me check is his back paws. He will literally let me hold him like a baby, and I alternate feet. I honestly am so surprised at how good he is with it, even the vet was surprised tbh. I suspect he has early neuropathy in his back legs though, so it may be that he can't feel it as much.

Binx has gotten a lot better about his ears! It only took a few days. I stopped trying to freehand and only use the lancing tool now and he responds much better to that. He hates his paws being touched so I haven't even tried that haha

 

[Nick & Binx]

Just wanted to say hi and welcome to the forum.
Keep asking lots of questions. We are always happy to answer them.

Thank you! It's a lot all at once, but the forum has been very helpful and welcoming. It's nice to have people to talk to about it who are also very knowledgeable.

 

[Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)]

Just so you know, a curve doesn’t have to be done overnight ever. You test every 2 hours for 12 noirs or every 3 for 18 hours. You can do it during the day, no need to do it overnight.

 

[Nick & Binx]

Just so you know, a curve doesn’t have to be done overnight ever. You test every 2 hours for 12 noirs or every 3 for 18 hours. You can do it during the day, no need to do it overnight.

I didn't know that, thank you!

 

[Mel Flagg]

Binx has gotten a lot better about his ears! It only took a few days. I stopped trying to freehand and only use the lancing tool now and he responds much better to that. He hates his paws being touched so I haven't even tried that haha

Ya not every cat lets you touch their paws. I was actually really surprised Marair did! But the vet couldn't get it from his ear either. I had to tell them to try his back paws. When the vet came back in she was like, he's a really laid back cat, I've never had a cat let me use their paws. LOL I was like.. ya... Marair's my little buddy. He even lets me put eye drops in his eyes!

 

[Nick & Binx]

Vets get minimal training in nutrition when they are in school. The sales reps from the food companies "educate" the vets. The vet suggested MD because is is supposed to be a diabetic formulation. However, the pet food companies recently lost a class action suit for calling their food "prescription." There's nothing prescription in the food. In fact they now refer to MD as "dietetic" not diabetic.

I have a couple of thoughts.

• if loose stools are an occasional issue, a probiotic will be Binx's friend. S. boulardii is specific for this sort of GI issue and is nothing short of a miracle. Use about 1/4 of a capsule mixed into canned food. You can increase gradually to get things under control unless Binx is really in distress. Jarrow's or ReNew are reliable brands and available on Amazon.
• GI issues could mean a food sensitivity, allergy, or inflammatory bowel. I would stick with poultry since Binx was tolerating the turkey flavor of the Purina One. Alternatively, novel proteins are often recommended if a cat has inflammatory bowel.
• A raw diet is also an option but a lot more work is involved. We can direct you to information if you want to try that route.

If Binx will hoover down food that's put in front of him, you can break the meals into smaller portions. Give a bit more at shot time and then spread out the food over a few hours. I fed my cat at shot time, then additional food at +1, +2, and sometimes +3. Others will divide up the food and give additional "snacks" up until nadir (i.e., the lowest point in your cat's cycle).

Hey! I just wanna follow up and say I got some S. boulardii, I misremembered what you said and actually gave him 1/2 of a capsule with breakfast and dinner, and almost immediately he had better stools! Thank you so much! He has had issues with this for so long, so I hope this can make him more comfortable.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

I might suggest backing down the dose a bit. Starting at too high of a dose could cause some GI cramping.