8/29 Ivy AMPS 323, +2 381, +4 323, +6 338, PMPS 303, +2 237, +3 217, +4.25 157, +5 185

Yes, it can be! Infuriating for us but happens to a lot of cats :bighug:.
I think you can take her up to 2.75 if you don't see a low blue.
Tomorrow is day 7 on this dose of 2.5u with SLGS.
I have to be out of the house for several hours tomorrow mid am cycle and again right after her pm shot and first few hours of pm cycle.
Should I wait until Thursday when I’m home to safely increase her dose since I know she usually goes low on 2.75u?
 
Look at your data to help make that decision. For Cleo, she usually takes 2-3cycles after an increase to show some action. This allows me to increase in the PM cycle, build the depot a bit, then some action in subsequent cycles. Some cats respond to an increase in the first cycle. What has been Ivy's pattern when increasing? Also, factor in when you'll be gone, at +?
Maybe she'll surprise you and respond to the threat of an increase. :p
 
Look at your data to help make that decision. For Cleo, she usually takes 2-3cycles after an increase to show some action. This allows me to increase in the PM cycle, build the depot a bit, then some action in subsequent cycles. Some cats respond to an increase in the first cycle. What has been Ivy's pattern when increasing? Also, factor in when you'll be gone, at +?
Maybe she'll surprise you and respond to the threat of an increase. :p
Lol, the threat of increase. She would have to give some real action today!! :joyful:
I think she usually gives action in 2 to 3 cycles also, like Cleo.
So if I increase tonight that could be tomorrow night action, perhaps when I have to be out, which would not be great.

So I could do it either tomorrow pm dose or Thursday am cycle for safety of my being with her.
Do you agree?
 
Tomorrow is day 7 on this dose of 2.5u with SLGS.
Actually, because you shot 2 units as a reduced dose, that resets the clock.
Eta counting consecutuve cycles only applies to TR not to SLGS

Tomorrow is day 6.
So strictly speaking you should hold the dose Thursday and Friday, taking her up on Saturday morning if needed, that would be SLGS strictly speaking.

I hate go see her run high like that, having to hold a dose for so l9ng, when a reduction has failed is one of the reasons I'm personally not keen on SLGS, for some cats it can become truly counterproductive, making regulation much harder to achieve.
 
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Actually, because you shot 2 units as a reduced dose, that resets the clock.

Tomorrow is day 6.
So strictly speaking you should hold the dose Thursday and Friday, taking her up on Saturday morning if needed, that would be SLGS strictly speaking.

I hate go see her run high like that, having to hold a dose for so l9ng, when a reduction has failed is one of the reasons I'm personally not keen on SLGS, for some cats it can become truly counterproductive, making regulation much harder to achieve.
Thanks for pointing that timing issue out. You’re correct.
We did try TR but Ivy seems to take longer to settle into a dose and TR was way too fast moving for us. She was constantly dropping very low (especially all night long) and I literally was not sleeping at all for weeks on end or able to leave the house.
It was very Fast drops to low bgs and with her not being carb sensitive, It was very difficult to bring her back up from the lows.

That’s how we got back to SLGS :arghh:
 
Thanks for pointing that timing issue out.
You are welcome
and I literally was not sleeping at all for weeks on end or able to leave the house.
It was very Fast drops to low bgs and with her not being carb sensitive, It was very difficult to bring her back up from the lows.
I can see you had a couple of Interesting cycles, it's hard.
We did try TR but Ivy seems to take longer to settle into a dose and TR was way too fast moving for us. She
TR allows for this, I it becomes evident that your cat takes longer to settle into a dose you can hold a little longer, eg once a cat starts seeing green TR cites you hold for a minimum of 10 cycles, I've known members whose cats took longer to settle who held doses say 12 or 13 cycles.
My cat was also not carb sensitive, with the experience, you have been gaining you nay now be able to manage those drops more effectively, having had some time to reflect.

Being new to Staci ss when I look at her ss, and consider nothing else, to me she was making progress on TR., I dont like what I am seeing BG wise on SLGS.

Sure it may have been a bit too fast paced, but a slower strategy within TR is possible for cg on full time jobs or with cats that just take longer to settle. Perhaps worth reconsidering.

Not my intention to pressurise, just wanted to be sure you were considering other possibilities.
 
You are welcome

I can see you had a couple of Interesting cycles, it's hard.

TR allows for this, I it becomes evident that your cat takes longer to settle into a dose you can hold a little longer, eg once a cat starts seeing green TR cites you hold for a minimum of 10 cycles, I've known members whose cats took longer to settle who held doses say 12 or 13 cycles.
My cat was also not carb sensitive, with the experience, you have been gaining you nay now be able to manage those drops more effectively, having had some time to reflect.

Being new to Staci ss when I look at her ss, and consider nothing else, to me she was making progress on TR., I dont like what I am seeing BG wise on SLGS.

Sure it may have been a bit too fast paced, but a slower strategy within TR is possible for cg on full time jobs or with cats that just take longer to settle. Perhaps worth reconsidering.

Not my intention to pressurise, just wanted to be sure you were considering other possibilities.
I agree with you that I’m not loving her numbers right now. The fact that she’s a real bouncer and not carb sensitive makes things very difficult for me to handle.
However, maybe TR could work, but at a slower pace. I will give it some thought given what I’ve learned about Ivy’s response to insulin and carbs.
Thank you for pointing out those aspects of going slower

I do appreciate your taking the time to delve into her history and give some real analysis. :bighug:
 
You are welcome, I think it's always worth reviewing, what didn't work before might work now, not only do our kitties change, but we as cg change as do the circumstances we find ourselves in.

:)
 
You are welcome

I can see you had a couple of Interesting cycles, it's hard.

TR allows for this, I it becomes evident that your cat takes longer to settle into a dose you can hold a little longer, eg once a cat starts seeing green TR cites you hold for a minimum of 10 cycles, I've known members whose cats took longer to settle who held doses say 12 or 13 cycles.
My cat was also not carb sensitive, with the experience, you have been gaining you nay now be able to manage those drops more effectively, having had some time to reflect.

Being new to Staci ss when I look at her ss, and consider nothing else, to me she was making progress on TR., I dont like what I am seeing BG wise on SLGS.

Sure it may have been a bit too fast paced, but a slower strategy within TR is possible for cg on full time jobs or with cats that just take longer to settle. Perhaps worth reconsidering.

Not my intention to pressurise, just wanted to be sure you were considering other possibilities.
I also forgot to mention how difficult Ivy to handle and is to ear prick. That’s why I use the Libre sensor.
She’s never been a relaxed cat.

She’s a fractious cat on a good day, before diabetes. I have to sedate her to go to the vet in heavy doses and that barely slows her down.
All of this just makes it harder than it “should” be.
 
You are welcome, I think it's always worth reviewing, what didn't work before might work now, not only do our kitties change, but we as cg change as do the circumstances we find ourselves in.

:)
Another thought… with TR the reduction point of 50 is rough since it’s so hard to bring her back up with carbs.
I feel more comfortable with 90 since I have more room and a safety net to try to bring her number higher.
So maybe it’s a matter of a lower reduction point I need to find to hold a dose longer on SLGS.
 
Another thought… with TR the reduction point of 50 is rough since it’s so hard to bring her back up with carbs.
I feel more comfortable with 90 since I have more room and a safety net to try to bring her number higher.
So maybe it’s a matter of a lower reduction point I need to find to hold a dose longer on SLGS.
Reducing the reduction point is another alternative to holding the dose a bit longer
And certainly something you could look at.

If a reduction fails you do still have to hold onto it for 14 continious cycles.
 
Reducing the reduction point is another alternative to holding the dose a bit longer
And certainly something you could look at.

If a reduction fails you do still have to hold onto it for 14 continious cycles.
Agree. I think it’s the 50 bg that we need to let them drop down to that was super difficult for us. I’m not sure how I could get comfortable with that again since it was a mess when we did it. But I’m open to suggestions!
 
Actually, because you shot 2 units as a reduced dose, that resets the clock.
Oh that's interesting. I thought that the re-set of the clock cycle count only applied to TR. I love learning something new.

I love TR! And I've found a way to make it work in my life.
While I do agree that Ivy was seeing better numbers on TR, I recall that it was awful for you @Staci & Ivy . You were awake all day and all night and that was before (and after) Ivy was injured and in the cast. And also considering manual BGs are difficult to cross check the Libre, TR may be too much. I know how overwhelmed you've been lately :bighug:. PS when does the cast come off?

I think that for now, SLGS is less stressful for you and by extension your (absolutely adorable) Ivy. By pulling back on feeding HC over the last couple of days, the overall numbers are trending down. Perhaps if you fed only LC, those yellows and pinks would turn to blues and yellow and *possibly* earn another reduction.

With respect to an increase, you have enough data on 2.5 to see she needs more juice on her current feeding schedule and carb%. Based on what you said your schedule is over the next couple of cycles, I would increase as you said in post#5. Just my two cents :)
 
Oh that's interesting. I thought that the re-set of the clock cycle count only applied to TR. I love learning something new.
I am not 100percent sure, after writing that post, I have sent a pm to a few old timers, it is definitely a thing with TR.
I'll let you know the outcome
In any case tomorrow is day 7, even if it's not applicable.,so she should hold at least that.
Let's see what they say, I looked on the stickies but couldn't see any reference to it specifically.
 
Oh that's interesting. I thought that the re-set of the clock cycle count only applied to TR. I love learning something new.

I love TR! And I've found a way to make it work in my life.
While I do agree that Ivy was seeing better numbers on TR, I recall that it was awful for you @Staci & Ivy . You were awake all day and all night and that was before (and after) Ivy was injured and in the cast. And also considering manual BGs are difficult to cross check the Libre, TR may be too much. I know how overwhelmed you've been lately :bighug:. PS when does the cast come off?

I think that for now, SLGS is less stressful for you and by extension your (absolutely adorable) Ivy. By pulling back on feeding HC over the last couple of days, the overall numbers are trending down. Perhaps if you fed only LC, those yellows and pinks would turn to blues and yellow and *possibly* earn another reduction.

With respect to an increase, you have enough data on 2.5 to see she needs more juice on her current feeding schedule and carb%. Based on what you said your schedule is over the next couple of cycles, I would increase as you said in post#5. Just my two cents :)
Great memory, Angela.
Yes the hot mess of TR (for us) was when Ivy broke her leg. It was truly a nightmare. There is actually no cast on her since they did surgery. She still healing and we have to have yet another x-ray September 19 for which I will have to give her half a dose of insulin before taking her in because they will sedate her further to do the x-ray.
So, that will also mess with the Depot at that point.

The broken leg chapter is still in play. I still have to keep her in a room where there’s no furniture (no jumping allowed) when unsupervised. So night time and when I’m working or go out, she’s in her room.
However, I do spend many hours a day with her and take her to different parts of the house when she is supervised so she can have a change of scenery, get lots of light, etc.. But, it’s very labor-intensive to make sure she stays safe and doesn’t injure the leg well it continues to heal, all that, and managing the diabetes. It is a lot.

Yes, TR was rough given all of the situations with Ivy‘s temperament, etc. I do agree SLGS for us, right now, is less stressful even though with her bouncing, it’s quite stressful enough.
I’m definitely doing the best I can with a fractious, noncooperative, non-chill, non-carb sensitive, very bouncy kitty.
It’s a very good thing I love her to pieces.
Unfortunately, she won’t let anyone else handle her, so everything is on my shoulders 24/7. And the sleep deprivation doesn’t help (But everyone here knows what that’s like)

Only I can test, shoot, ear prick, install the Libre, etc. and sometimes that doesn’t go so well.

One day at a time. And thanks to the good people like yourselves for whom I am very grateful for your time and expertise.
I still feel like a newbie, and I have so much to learn.
I really appreciate all the handholding and wisdom because you certainly don’t get it at the vet’s office.:bighug::bighug:

Oh, I am trying to only use her regular lamb homemade diet if it can be helped (but according to my nutritionist, it’s 12.5% carbs.). Hopefully that is serving her *well in all of this.
I’m trying not to add a higher medium (15%) or any high carb (20%) unless she’s really dropping fast and very low which she hasn’t done regularly since last week.
I actually don’t use the HC, just 15% when she’s diving.

I’d like to see more blues than greens for sure.
When she was on Low carbs (6%) a few months ago and higher insulin levels, it was awful. She was diving constantly.

So we are trying to get some handle on all of these facets. I guess the next increase will see where it takes my girl in the next few days.
So we are agreed that the increase would be Saturday, unless she does something fancy before then? :joyful:
 
I am not 100percent sure, after writing that post, I have sent a pm to a few old timers, it is definitely a thing with TR.
I'll let you know the outcome
In any case tomorrow is day 7, even if it's not applicable.,so she should hold at least that.
Let's see what they say, I looked on the stickies but couldn't see any reference to it specifically.
Just saw this, will wait to hear, thanks!!
 
Just saw this, will wait to hear, thanks!!
Doesn't apply to SLGS. Sorry.

So seven days from when you took her to 2.5 and you can take her up. Sorry for the confusion.
You could take her up tonight or tomorrow morning. I wouldn't wait till Saturday. No need to on slgs.


Perhaps if you fed only LC, those yellows and pinks would turn to blues and yellow and *possibly* earn another reduction.


Yep I agree watch those carbs, no need to use them habitually, you want to mostly be feeding a below 10%carb diet.

any high carb (20%)
High carb should as a general rule be used under 50, or maybe if your cat dropped fast and very close to 50 early in the cycle and you were trying to hold onto a dose.

Consider that if you over use HC you can find yourself in a position where the cat is effectively overdosed, especially true on TR. I don't think that the case at the moment, just something to bear in mind. Not being carb sensitive is not a problem in itself, but you have to learn when to use higher carbs and just as importantly when not to use them.
 
@Staci & Ivy , in conjunction with what @Gill & George said above and I'd increase as you described here:
Sorry I am confused,
am cycle on 8/29 is cycle 14.
So increase due in theory as per slgs tonight 8/29
At the very latest I would do it tomorrow morning 8/30
14 cycles when a dose is not doing it for a cat is enough IMHO, slgs is already slow and safe, making it slower is not necessarily safer or better for the cat.

Looking at the ss Ivy seems to take 3 cycles before we see a change in bg so I see no need to wait.

Eta I just not following stacis schedule. If she's out evening of 30, then take dose up in the morning of the 30th, the last 2 increases have resulted in action after 3 cycles, so that's the best bet. Point is slgs was intended to be safe when cg wasn't home for majority of cycle and not able to test, we have the data to show its safe, because of the libre. With tr its different we are sailing closer to the wind and we may take into consideration when we are going to be out, I'm not sure that it makes sense to make those same choices if you are following tr, keeping hold of a dose for too long is really not a good idea, insulin resistance can set in, makes bouncing worse because kitty gets used to higher numbers so they start reacting to higher bg levels. just explaining my thinking.
 
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Sorry I am confused,
am cycle on 8/29 is cycle 14.
So increase due in theory as per slgs tonight 8/29
At the very latest I would do it tomorrow morning 8/30
14 cycles when a dose is not doing it for a cat is enough IMHO, slgs is already slow and safe, making it slower is not necessarily safer or better for the cat.

Looking at the ss Ivy seems to take 3 cycles before we see a change in bg so I see no need to wait.
Got it on not waiting to increase.

My only issue is that I have to be out of the house tomorrow late morning for a few hours then again right after pmps for a few hours and I’m concerned if she were to drop low and I’m not here to handle the situation.

I guess I could give the increase either tomorrow pm cycle, or better for safety: Thursday am cycle (I will be home to monitor all day/night) in case of a problem. )
Your thoughts?
 
I guess I could give the increase either tomorrow pm cycle, or better for safety: Thursday am cycle (I will be home to monitor all day/night) in case of a problem. )
Your thoughts?
Looks like the threat of an increase had no effect on Ivy today :rolleyes:.
Remember YOU load and hold the syringe!
Also remember to look at your data. How long after an increase does she give some action as discussed in today's posts 3-6 above? That's the cycle you want to be around for.
 
I guess I could give the increase either tomorrow pm cycle, or better for safety: Thursday am cycle (I will be home to monitor all day/night) in case of a problem. )
Your thoughts?
It's your choice do what you feel is best. I cannot guarantee that she won't go green on you, but it looks unlikely to ,e looking at the ss
My point is that slgs has a much higher safety margin, it was developed so kitties would be safe with limited testing and cg out of home, so I don't think it's necessary to wait.

Another way of managing bg on the 3rdcycle when you are going out is to give her HC then at +1, if she would eat out of a auto feeder then you could leave her snacks at regular intervals early I the cycle, they could be HC too, you'll probably get a shortening of duration but perhaps you would feel more relaxed about being away. You effectively abort the cycle and accept you are going to push her bg up

Like I've said George wasn't carb sensitive either, one day it took me 200g of 28% to try to get him up after his bg dropped into the 20s that was my mistake as a Newbie, I used 15% when I should have gone for the big guns .
 
I honestly think for you, Vy not being carb sensitive and your tolerance level SLGS will is the best method. Just my two cents fwiw.
 
It's your choice do what you feel is best. I cannot guarantee that she won't go green on you, but it looks unlikely to ,e looking at the ss
My point is that slgs has a much higher safety margin, it was developed so kitties would be safe with limited testing and cg out of home, so I don't think it's necessary to wait.

Another way of managing bg on the 3rdcycle when you are going out is to give her HC then at +1, if she would eat out of a auto feeder then you could leave her snacks at regular intervals early I the cycle, they could be HC too, you'll probably get a shortening of duration but perhaps you would feel more relaxed about being away. You effectively abort the cycle and accept you are going to push her bg up

Like I've said George wasn't carb sensitive either, one day it took me 200g of 28% to try to get him up after his bg dropped into the 20s that was my mistake as a Newbie, I used 15% when I should have gone for the big guns .
I think tomorrow am cycle might be best, based on all this discussion. The hope is she doesn't pull any fancy drops till 3rd cycle, Thursday am, when I am home to deal with it.
To clarify, when you used 28% HC (I only have 20% in the house) for only really low drops, save that for last resort.
I have been using 15% when I need to bring her up since lower carbs don't cut it if she drops very fast. Is that reasonable if needed?

@Angela & Cleo , unfortunately, she ignored the increase threat :(
 
I think tomorrow am cycle might be best, based on all this discussion. The hope is she doesn't pull any fancy drops till 3rd cycle, Thursday am, when I am home to deal with it.
To clarify, when you used 28% HC (I only have 20% in the house) for only really low drops, save that for last resort.
I have been using 15% when I need to bring her up since lower carbs don't cut it if she drops very fast. Is that reasonable if needed?

@Angela & Cleo , unfortunately, she ignored the increase threat :(
I would give higher than 15% only if close to or under 50 or you need to snort the cycle.
 
W
Look at your data to help make that decision. For Cleo, she usually takes 2-3cycles after an increase to show some action. This allows me to increase in the PM cycle, build the depot a bit, then some action in subsequent cycles. Some cats respond to an increase in the first cycle. What has been Ivy's pattern when increasing? Also, factor in when you'll be gone, at +?
Maybe she'll surprise you and respond to the threat of an increase. :p
ell Angela, it took Ivy all day and NOW she finally heard your threat of an increase. She’s finally dropping at +4!
 
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