? AMPS 122, then 130, feed, skip shot, 2PM @ 208, now what?

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This morning Artemis' BG was 122, 30 minutes later it measured 130.

We decided to feed and skip the shot this morning to see what happens with just moderate amounts of low carb food throughout the day (1/2 of 3oz can at a time).

(Last night)
(7:33 PM - PMPS 375)
(7:35 PM - Feed 1/2 can 5% carb fancy feast)
(8:00 PM - 4.5 Units)
(9:00 PM +1 - 344)
(11:00 PM +3 - 190)
(11:05 PM - Feed 1/2 can 5% carb fancy feast)

Fasting from ~12:00 or 1:00 AM to 7:15 AM

----------------
Morning
----------------
6:35 AM - 122
7:05 AM - 130
7:15 AM - Fed 1/2 can of fancy feast turkey and giblets 6% carb pate
Skip shot
9:45 AM - 172
2:00 PM - 208
2:05 - Fed 1/2 can of fancy feast turkey and giblets 6% carb pate

1. Where am I supposed to record these numbers if no insulin is given? On the sheet just the same, except no insulin in the corresponding insulin column?

2. Where to go from here today? Continue to monitor and do the PMPS at around 6 or 7 PM?
 
You can enter zero in the unit column and continue to enter the numbers you got at the equivalent +time. Since you skipped the am dose, which I agree you should have, you can now adjust the evening shooting time to whenever is most convenient for you. If you want to stay with the same schedule you can, it’s totally up to you.

you don’t need to do another test until the pmps since no insulin was given and he’s not in danger of a hypo.

my opinion is that you should lower the dose to 4 units. 4.5 is clearly still too high and as I’ve been saying on the other threads, I believe he’s going too low overnight and you’re just not catching it. It’s better to lower and be able to shoot consistently than to have to keep skipping shots.

if you can please remove the 911 from the thread title, that would be super. We reserve 911 for life and death situations like hypos. Thank you!
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
you don’t need to do another test until the pmps since no insulin was given and he’s not in danger of a hypo.

my opinion is that you should lower the dose to 4 units. 4.5 is clearly still too high and as I’ve been saying on the other threads, I believe he’s going too low overnight and you’re just not catching it. It’s better to lower and be able to shoot consistently than to have to keep skipping shots.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all your help. How do we know he's going hypo/below 90 overnight indicating a decrease in dose to 4 units? - Does anyone else care to chime in?


Also,

I was able to get a reading just now (+10) and it read 326.

This reading of 326 is just shy of 3 hours after eating 1/2 of a 3 oz can of 6% carb turkey/giblets fancy feast at around 2:05 PM, at which time he clocked in at 208.

Does that mean he's getting a 118-point jump from half a can of low-carb food? Do we need to try to feed chicken or something in the afternoon with near-zero carbohydrates?
 
I know you like data but the jump is also due to the fact he had no insulin today. Low carb food is good and it doesn’t mean that that exact kind caused a jump of 118 today and it would always do that every time. Cats bgs fluctuate every single day and sometimes there’s no real reason, which is why testing every day is so important. If it was an exact science you’d never need to test at all because you’d know exactly how they would react to each dose and each amount of food every time ;)

I’m not saying he’s going hypo. Going under 90 is not a hypo. A hypo is when they go under 50. Also, not very cat has the hypo symptoms when they go under 50. That’s why we call it a take action number not a hypo number. Bobo did that a few times and so did Minnie and they behaved perfectly fine like nothing was happening at all. Some do and some don’t. The reason I’m saying that I think he’s going lower is because of the data you’ve gathered so far actually. Last night he was above 300 at pmps and then at +3 he was already down to 190. This morning you got a 130 which leads me to think he kept going down last night because his nadir seems to be at +5 and that’s around the time vetsulin peaks too - im saying that based on that 83 you got at +5 on 7/22. As the insulin starts to wear off, you start to see their bg rise and continue to rise till the next shot. He only rose up to 130 today and to me that means he had to have been climbing from a low number in order to never get above 200
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
The reason I’m saying that I think he’s going lower is because of the data you’ve gathered so far actually. Last night he was above 300 at pmps and then at +3 he was already down to 190. This morning you got a 130 which leads me to think he kept going down last night because his nadir seems to be at +5 and that’s around the time vetsulin peaks too - im saying that based on that 83 you got at +5 on 7/22. As the insulin starts to wear off, you start to see their bg rise and continue to rise till the next shot. He only rose up to 130 today and to me that means he had to have been climbing from a low number in order to never get above 200
Click to expand...

Ok, I understand that.

Gave him a 4 unit dose at 6 so I can see more data tonight.
 
Hi,
I have just looked at your SS and can see that Artemis dropped to 86 on 4 units vetsulin.
Because he dropped under 90, he has earned a reduction in dose to 3.75 Units.
****If you have trouble getting the 3.75 U (I seem to remember it was you who found it hard to get the 1/4 unit doses) I would reduce the dose to 3.5U vetsulin and stay with that dose until the BGs tell you otherwise.
Keep posting!:)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi,
I have just looked at your SS and can see that Artemis dropped to 86 on 4 units vetsulin.
Because he dropped under 90, he has earned a reduction in dose to 3.75 Units.
****If you have trouble getting the 3.75 U (I seem to remember it was you who found it hard to get the 1/4 unit doses) I would reduce the dose to 3.5U vetsulin and stay with that dose until the BGs tell you otherwise.
Keep posting!:)
Click to expand...

He was high this morning. Didn't see your reply until now. 4 this am.

He is usually much higher in the daytime/afternoons anyways.

Do you think he's bouncing?
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Born is in Australia so you won’t get a reply till later in the day. That’s okay just go ahead and reduce him to 3.5 tonight. He may be bouncing yes. Just remember every time he drops under 90, he earns a reduction.
Click to expand...

Ok.

The difference between yesterday 7/24 and the day before 7/23 was he had more food early on in the day on 7/23. Low carb food under 6% but still... Two 3 oz cans by noon to try to slow his BG drop since I was going to be gone for a few hours. Not sure it helped at all.
 
Did you give food last night at +4 and +5? Food always helps. With Bobo I found that the low carb food would keep him at almost the same bg for the next hour. You’re learning your cat’s pattern or data and soon you’ll know how each of these things affects his bg.

these are great numbers for a recently diagnosed cat. A lot of cats don’t see any numbers under 200 for a while so he’s reacting well to the insulin. All good news!
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Did you give food last night at +4 and +5? Food always helps. With Bobo I found that the low carb food would keep him at almost the same bg for the next hour. You’re learning your cat’s pattern or data and soon you’ll know how each of these things affects his bg.

these are great numbers for a recently diagnosed cat. A lot of cats don’t see any numbers under 200 for a while so he’s reacting well to the insulin. All good news!
Click to expand...

I fed just before I went to bed (+3). I can't be awake for that many hours a day unfortunately so that is proving difficult.

What do you do if you get home late and miss the dose time by 3 hours or so? Consistency and stability are not easy to come by this year for our household. This may happen once or twice a week.
 
Also, making a request with the doc to go to Lantus instead since he starts to be swinging high again by around +8. Good idea? How difficult will that transition be from Vetsulin?
 
Twinkleboots said:
I fed just before I went to bed (+3). I can't be awake for that many hours a day unfortunately so that is proving difficult.

What do you do if you get home late and miss the dose time by 3 hours or so? Consistency and stability are not easy to come by this year for our household. This may happen once or twice a week.
Click to expand...
I was asking when you tested and got that 86 at +5. I didn’t mean every night. Are you considering an auto feeder? I got one from Chewy for $20.
 
It looks like you skipped the shot last night? That’s probably why you’re seeing higher numbers today. As for the delay, im not sure with Vetsulin, but since it doesn’t last 12 hours, it may not be as bad. 3 hours is a lot and with most insulins, a delay can act as a dose reduction while giving the shot earlier can act as a dose increase. Thoughts @Bron and Sheba (GA) ?
 
Swapping from vetsulin to lantus is not hard. You just give vetsulin in one cycle and then lantus the next.
Post here to ask about what dose you need to start with, when you get the Lantus.
It is best to try and stick to the 12 hours when dosing if you can but sometimes life just gets in the way.
Do you have to leave at a set time in the mornings or can you be flexible as far as giving the dose is concerned?.
 
Twinkleboots said:
No auto feeder in my future unless it can handle wet food. No teeth and he just can't handle hard food anyways. It's too addicting. Causes issues every time.
Click to expand...
Here is an auto feeder that hold 5 slots and comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C500-Digital-Automatic/dp/B01AUYLVU8/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuM_y2p79_AIVDvrICh1_xAy6EAAYASAAEgJBDfD_BwE&hvadid=178540036693&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6990619631848479728&hvtargid=kwd-12652445711&hydadcr=10635_9894649&keywords=petsafe 5-meal automatic pet feeder&qid=1675560889&sr=8-6

Extra ice packs so you can keep them in the freezer ready to go
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Rep...5c-bd5c-e23f6094563c&pd_rd_i=B091HTXNHR&psc=1

This one has 3 slots with one ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Automatic-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01MXDFB28

Extra ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Replace...cb-974a-deec2fb8a80c&pd_rd_i=B07KFP7PRG&psc=1
 
Twinkleboots said:
Also, making a request with the doc to go to Lantus instead since he starts to be swinging high again by around +8. Good idea? How difficult will that transition be from Vetsulin?
Click to expand...
If you do switch to Lantus
Lantus is the major brand name glargine the USA you can get generic/biosimilar glargine at very reasonable prices using GoodRx coupon. Most members use the generic because Lantus is to expensive.
https://www.goodrx.com/lantus?label...d-pens-of-100-units-ml&quantity=1&slug=lantus
Make sure that the Match your prescription pull down menue says generic glargine 1carton of 5 3ml pens.
There is no wait time test, feed, give insulin
Lantus usually doesn't kick in until 2 hours after the shot
Let us know if the vet writes the script for you because you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings , I can tell you which ones you can use
We buy the pens but use the syringes to draw out the insulin because if you use the pen you can only adjust by full units


Also
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

Just call around for the best price

A member just posted this
Allie was using the Lantus and I just switched to the generic and using the GoodRX I got 5 pens for $81.30 at Walgreens. GoodRX has a 1-800 number to assist you in using their services to get your pets prescriptions filled if the pharmacy gives you any issues.

I think I found it for you
GoodRx / Customer service

1 (855) 268-2822
49823063143_3437e9e997_o.jpg


You can read all about Lantus here, all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
 
He’s looking good even with that skipped dose. Did you go down to 3.5 because it’s hard to measure the 3.75? I think that may be the ideal dose but let’s see if you can stay with that for 7 days. Only change or reduce if he goes under 90
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
He’s looking good even with that skipped dose. Did you go down to 3.5 because it’s hard to measure the 3.75? I think that may be the ideal dose but let’s see if you can stay with that for 7 days. Only change or reduce if he goes under 90
Click to expand...

That's right! He's gone down past 3.5 over the last week even... Update here.

Only change/reduce if he goes under 90 - I understand that. However, that doesn't mean no "token dose" right?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
If you do switch to Lantus
Lantus is the major brand name glargine the USA you can get generic/biosimilar glargine at very reasonable prices using GoodRx coupon. Most members use the generic because Lantus is to expensive.
https://www.goodrx.com/lantus?label...d-pens-of-100-units-ml&quantity=1&slug=lantus
Make sure that the Match your prescription pull down menue says generic glargine 1carton of 5 3ml pens.
There is no wait time test, feed, give insulin
Lantus usually doesn't kick in until 2 hours after the shot
Let us know if the vet writes the script for you because you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings , I can tell you which ones you can use
We buy the pens but use the syringes to draw out the insulin because if you use the pen you can only adjust by full units


Also
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

Just call around for the best price

A member just posted this
Allie was using the Lantus and I just switched to the generic and using the GoodRX I got 5 pens for $81.30 at Walgreens. GoodRX has a 1-800 number to assist you in using their services to get your pets prescriptions filled if the pharmacy gives you any issues.

I think I found it for you
GoodRx / Customer service

1 (855) 268-2822
49823063143_3437e9e997_o.jpg


You can read all about Lantus here, all the yellow stickys
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
Click to expand...

Thanks for all of this amazingly helpful information!

I think I found the generic glargine at Target/CVS for under $90 a vial on Good RX! That's a better deal than 5 pens right?

Please do share which U-100 syringes you recommend.

Cheers!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here is an auto feeder that hold 5 slots and comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C500-Digital-Automatic/dp/B01AUYLVU8/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuM_y2p79_AIVDvrICh1_xAy6EAAYASAAEgJBDfD_BwE&hvadid=178540036693&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6990619631848479728&hvtargid=kwd-12652445711&hydadcr=10635_9894649&keywords=petsafe 5-meal automatic pet feeder&qid=1675560889&sr=8-6

Extra ice packs so you can keep them in the freezer ready to go
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Rep...5c-bd5c-e23f6094563c&pd_rd_i=B091HTXNHR&psc=1

This one has 3 slots with one ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Automatic-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01MXDFB28

Extra ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Replace...cb-974a-deec2fb8a80c&pd_rd_i=B07KFP7PRG&psc=1
Click to expand...

Amazing. I had no idea this was a thing.

This is on sale right now! Is it the best around? If so, I'll buy it.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Here is an auto feeder that hold 5 slots and comes with 2 ice packs for wet food
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-C500-Digital-Automatic/dp/B01AUYLVU8/ref=sr_1_6?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuM_y2p79_AIVDvrICh1_xAy6EAAYASAAEgJBDfD_BwE&hvadid=178540036693&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6990619631848479728&hvtargid=kwd-12652445711&hydadcr=10635_9894649&keywords=petsafe 5-meal automatic pet feeder&qid=1675560889&sr=8-6

Extra ice packs so you can keep them in the freezer ready to go
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Rep...5c-bd5c-e23f6094563c&pd_rd_i=B091HTXNHR&psc=1

This one has 3 slots with one ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Cat-Mate-Automatic-Feeder-Digital/dp/B01MXDFB28

Extra ice pack
https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Replace...cb-974a-deec2fb8a80c&pd_rd_i=B07KFP7PRG&psc=1
Click to expand...

Ok, Artemis is very angry with me over this new auto-feeder. He's stopped eating out of it completely? Any tricks you recommend?
 
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