To get a dental done, or not get a dental done. How to decide?

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Hendrick Cuddleclaw

Hendrick Cuddleclaw

Member Since 2022
So far this month we've taken 3 of our 7 cats in for annual exams, rabies 1-years and wellness checkup.

Kayla, 8 years old. Vet glanced in her mouth and said she needs a dental, quote $1000

Hendrick, 11 years old. Vet looked in his mouth, showed me red inflamed gums, and said he needs a dental and probably some extractions, quote $1600

Shylo, 11 years old. Vet glanced in his mouth and said he needs a dental, quote $1000.


Of these 3, at the moment I am only really seriously considering the sugar kitty, Hendrick. As I know that dental issues and infections are one of the main reasons cats fall out of remission. But I wish I could get a 2nd opinion, this was the first time any of these cats had ever seen this vet (reg vet is on vacay) and it sure felt like she barely looked (other than Hen).

It's not like you can just easily get a 2nd opinion these days though, at least not around here. Most vets aren't even accepting new patients. And if they are, they want to schedule the introductory visit first and foremost.

So I guess I am asking for thoughts and opinions. And if anyone has had any experience with getting a dental cleaning/extractions done on their kitties, please share.
 
I would personally take care of the ones that really need it, like gums inflamated and teeth removal like you said. I’ve only had Minnie and Bobo’s teeth cleaned once. The older they got, the more concerned I got about putting them under. Their teeth got checked annually at the vet but I haven’t been told Bobo needs one thus far. I think with my late cat, I had it done twice in her lifetime.
 
I have had two of mine's done, but both of their teeth were waaay beyond the inflamed gum threshold :blackeye:
Regular cat the first, had Stage 4 periodontal, six extractions.
My sugar baby had Stage 3 periodontal, with two resorptions - those two were removed and the rest cleaned, but I was told he may need at least one another extracted in the future.
Regular cat the third has mild inflammation at the moment.
I've been lately using a bunch of preventatives at home for what its worth, to at least try to prevent their teeth getting worse.
(I even started to brush their teeth after the full dental cleaning, which is not exactly a walk in the park as they're 8, 10 and 12 years old, and very temperamental :rolleyes:)
 
Hi Kyle :). I have done dentals with both my civvie and Mav. Mav ended up needing 9 teeth pulled due to resorptive lesions.

There is a good general info post here, for info on dentals

The extent of dental disease can sometimes be difficult to determine visually, particularly the back teeth, and it’s been the case by some members here, myself included that only when X-rays were taken, did the extent of the issue become apparent, since the issue was below the gum line. Doesn’t sound like any of your kitties are urgent, so while you take some time to decide and weigh things out, I’d watch your civvies for issues with eating, signs of pain, and with Hendrick as well, and any indications of increasing BG with him.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. It is not the cost that concerns me to be clear. I neglected to mention that in my initial post.

There are other things to consider imo beyond the cost, most importantly the well-being of the cat. The stress of getting dropped off for a full day, the risks associated with general anesthesia, to me these should be carefully weighed against the need for the procedure.

Today, Hendrick was so stressed from being taken by a vet tech for blood work and a urine sample that when they brought him back to the room he crouched in a corner and peed right on the floor, while howling a little sad howl. We were trying to console him but he was very unhappy in that moment. He perked up soon after but still, when I think of the stress of a full drop-off for a dental procedure could put on him, it concerns me.
 
My regular cat the first (with the 6 extractions) is ridden with anxiety in general. She's an untrusting, unaffectionate little ball of attitude. Her anxiety normally manifests in defensive aggressiveness first, then when she gives up, she shrinks as small as possible, trying to become one with the surface. As opposed to Hendrick, she doesn't stress pee, she drops a poop nugget or two when in this state.
She is completely healthy, and was a month shy of turning 12 when she had her dental. Rest assured, there were stress-nuggets in the kennel when I went to pick her up, but otherwise she was completely fine, old lady chomping on food as soon as we got home.

My sugar boy turned 10 two months prior to his dental. He's and affectionate purring plushy, and is very docile - I don't have stress induced toilet or behavioural issues with him during vet visist. Due to his diabetes, age, and grade 2 heart murmur, he was classed as "high risk for anaesthesia". I'm uncertain how it's done with cats that are in remission, but he was operated on just after nadir and they tried to keep him under for as short as possible. He still had extensive anesthesia regardless, and was under for over an hour due to nerves that have already crumbled into his gum, and the vet needed to dig deep to ensure they're all out. I was told he woke up "incredibly quickly", surprising the two surgeons and assisting nurses.
His BG was less erratic pretty much instantly after his dental. It's not perfect yet, but the difference is obvious, for him not being in so much pain. (Then again, as I said above, I see some inflammation, so we may have another trip ahead of us.)

All in all, for what its worth, both of my elderly cats have done very well, and they're the exact opposite from one other, in every way possible - gender, health issues (or lack thereof), behaviour, emotional sensitiveness (Is that a thing? Can I call it that?).
I'm just saying this, because ECID and all - we had 2 out of 2 positive dental outcomes, with two very different candidates.

My diabetic one had bad teeth for ages by the way, diabetes arose and was diagnosed much much later. But now, with his high BG, the dental issues walk hand in hand, so we are in a catch 22 situation. It is to say though that I'm not sure whether his dental issues could have been contributing factors for him developing diabetes.
I would say, however, if you're absolutely sure that Hendrick's dental issues are beyond to be controlled now by preventative treatments (unfortunately this was our case - I clocked on way too late) then go ahead with the op. You don't want to end up in a vicious cycle we are in.
 
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Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
So far this month we've taken 3 of our 7 cats in for annual exams, rabies 1-years and wellness checkup.

Kayla, 8 years old. Vet glanced in her mouth and said she needs a dental, quote $1000

Hendrick, 11 years old. Vet looked in his mouth, showed me red inflamed gums, and said he needs a dental and probably some extractions, quote $1600

Shylo, 11 years old. Vet glanced in his mouth and said he needs a dental, quote $1000.


Of these 3, at the moment I am only really seriously considering the sugar kitty, Hendrick. As I know that dental issues and infections are one of the main reasons cats fall out of remission. But I wish I could get a 2nd opinion, this was the first time any of these cats had ever seen this vet (reg vet is on vacay) and it sure felt like she barely looked (other than Hen).

It's not like you can just easily get a 2nd opinion these days though, at least not around here. Most vets aren't even accepting new patients. And if they are, they want to schedule the introductory visit first and foremost.

So I guess I am asking for thoughts and opinions. And if anyone has had any experience with getting a dental cleaning/extractions done on their kitties, please share.
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Who would do the teeth cleaning? Your regular vet or the one who pronounced a cursory judgment on their teeth? I do feel that keeping cats’ teeth clean is important because the bacteria, if the dental disease gets advanced, can negatively impact other organs. Of course, you really don’t want to put them under anesthesia unless it’s really necessary— but dental problems tend to just get worse over time. It would be good to find out if she’s just saying that they have some gingivitis with some redness around the gumline or of they have a large amount of tartar on their teeth (which you can usually see yourself if you’re able to look in their mouths or can at least pull back their lips to get a look at some of the teeth.) I have had three cats go for dental cleaning this year. They all had extractions. One cat had one, another three, and most recently a young cat of barely 5 years had to have three teeth extracted. He suddenly stopped eating, that was the only real sign for us, as he had previously been eating and acting normally. This guy just had three teeth extracted a week ago last Friday and had stitches put in (soluble stitches.) That was right at $500 including pre-anesthetic bloodwork, antibiotics and Buprenorphine for pain. I’m starting to feel like it wasn’t too bad of a price. In this case, they didn’t need to do x-rays, but I have frequently had cats who did need a few teeth x-rayed during a dental procedure. A friend of mine had her Basset Hound’s teeth cleaned last week- one extraction of an abscessed tooth). They did what they called a “whole mouth dental x-ray” for $165. My vet tends to x-ray teeth if they are questionable. In her case, the vet quoted $1500 and the bill came in at about $800, but I know that the practice of this particular vet is to inflate the estimates so that the client is “pleasantly surprised” when the actual bill is received. My vet will give me a written estimate with a high and a low number, since they can’t always be sure what they will find. Most times it’s closer to the low estimate.

anyway, if you do find that their teeth are in need of cleaning, I would schedule them as you are able —as long as their kidneys are good. I’ve had cats with dental problems who were not candidates for anesthesia due to kidney disease and there wasn’t much we could do except pulsed antibiotics and Buprenorphine if it became painful. I have one now with heart disease who cannot undergo general anesthesia — I pray that her teeth stay “okay” (of course, she does not have that many left due to previous dental extractions (so that’s a plus.). Just some thoughts.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Have you tried some gabapentin to get him less stressed before a vet visit?
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I was thinking about some gabapentin as well. You would have to ask your vet about the safety of using it before a dental procedure. Gabapentin takes a while to kick in - about 2 hours for many cats. Some vets recommend a dose the evening prior to a vet visit and a dose 2 hours before the visit the following day.
 
I am not a fan of gabapentin. If not dosed carefully, it can cause respiratory distress. I believe it is way overused by vets these days. I much prefer flower remedies and Feliway to help calm a kitty.

If you are worried about anesthesia, can you inquire as to whether there is a board certified veterinary anesthesiologist who can work with your vet? That’s the only way our cats get anesthesia. That way, a veterinarian who has the most experience and latest info about anesthesia can do that part and monitor systems while the vet does the dental.

I’ve just sat in on a series of cat webinars and one of the speakers was the vet who researched and developed Teef which is a tasteless additive to water that removes tartar. I’ve just started using it on my cats. It gets excellent reviews and as long as a cat does not have gingivitis, it can potentially help with tartar. But….that doesn’t help any if he needs extractions and they will never know without anesthetizing him.

My Gracie had a dental when she was FD and came through with flying colors. But it helped I had a great team who I knew and they knew us.
 
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Gabapentin worked wonders for my non-diabetic cat (she's still on it for her anxiety as her and cat the third don't get on well), however, it raised my diabetic boy's BG significantly on those occasions he was to take it.
It is stated on the PIL that it can affect glucose in diabetic patients (both low and high BG was listed under side effects) although only in rare cases.
I linked the PIL to someone previously, I'll try and pull it up and pop it here too in a few hours, after I've gotten some sleep. (04:00am here)
 
.:. in.active .:. said:
Gabapentin worked wonders for my non-diabetic cat (she's still on it for her anxiety as her and cat the third don't get on well), however, it raised my diabetic boy's BG significantly on those occasions he was to take it.
It is stated on the PIL that it can affect glucose in diabetic patients (both low and high BG was listed under side effects) although only in rare cases.
I linked the PIL to someone previously, I'll try and pull it up and pop it here too in a few hours, after I've gotten some sleep. (04:00am here)
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Each person can decide what is appropriate for their cat(s). Often a drug becomes the “drug du jour” among vets but that doesn’t mean it’s the best choice or comes with no risks. We have chosen to not allow our cats to have gabapentin, tramadol, steroids, convenia, or metacam as there are more natural alternatives these days with less side effects.

You get to choose for your cats.
 
Have you researched to see if there are any board-certified veterinary dentists in your area? That might be a good option. I don’t know how many there are in the U.S. (125 or so as of 7 years ago?) but the one I’ve used is associated with a vet school and I’ve been very, very pleased. (It’s who I trusted to do a dental on Tubby, my acrocat, as well as some of my other higher-risk cats/dogs).
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Have you tried some gabapentin to get him less stressed before a vet visit?
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he has never showed signs of extreme stress at the vet before, yesterday was the first and only time. In fact out of the 7 kits, only Kayla has ever showed any real issues, she gets so stressed she just starts panting and drooling and yes we are going to give her something before the next vet trip for her -- whether gaba or otherwise we aren't sure but definitely something.

@Marje and Gracie thanks for the link to the product Teef that is very interesting. Also good idea about the certified anesthesiologist.
@Suzanne & Darcy no the vet who we saw 3 times this month is a very young new vet who is not our regular vet. Regular vet is on vacay. The 3 vets whose names are on the sign out front, one of them would be doing the procedure. She did say there was tarter and gum disease. And I have noticed Hendrick's breath lately.

Between my wife and I we will do some of our own inspections. Maybe take some photos if we can. The other 4 kits are going to see this young vet for their annuals, rabies vax, and wellness checks here in the coming weeks so it will be interesting to see what she says. Our 15-year-old, Roxy, has never had a dental nor has any vet ever recommended one.

Coko is around 2-3, Oreo is 7, and Chester is also about 7 so we'll see.
 
JL and Chip said:
Have you researched to see if there are any board-certified veterinary dentists in your area? That might be a good option. I don’t know how many there are in the U.S. (125 or so as of 7 years ago?) but the one I’ve used is associated with a vet school and I’ve been very, very pleased. (It’s who I trusted to do a dental on Tubby, my acrocat, as well as some of my other higher-risk cats/dogs).
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ohhh now there's an idea. Good call I will do that

also I was just thinking about how my niece works as a vet tech at a local ER vet/ specialist practice. I'm going to reach out to her as well.
 
Yeah… I am not thrilled with Gabapentin either, I don’t think any of us are. But I did (first time ever) have to recently give it to a cat for a limited time. I stopped it due to my concerns about its effect on kidneys and liver (it’s metabolized by the liver and kidneys) over the longer term. I think I would still consider (I only say consider) it for a limited time or a single vet visit depending upon the health of the cat and the stress level of the cat. But there are alternatives that may work for some cats as well. I use Rescue Remedy on my cats as well as Feliway Spray in the carrier and something called Pet Remedy which has Valerian in it and that calms some cats. I find that different things work for different cats. Of course if someone has a cat that is a very very high stress cat, it may not work. I recently had some feral cats here in my home while they were recovering from spay surgery and the sprays and Rescue Remedy may have helped a little bit.

It is awesome about Roxy not ever needing her teeth cleaned at age 15! I have found that some cats just seem to have the right body chemistry (for lack of a better term) and don’t build up tartar and plaque.

I am also interested in the Teef thing that Marje linked. I am wondering if it is safe for use with heart medications like Vetmedin, Lasix, Clopidogrel, etc. or for a cat with heart disease in general. I will try to research it. There’s probably no point in asking my cardiologist since she seems to be against supplements in general (or not well-informed about supplements). I give my heart disease kitty Rutin (to help keep fluid off her chest, bit she also takes a low dose of Lasix) and Nattokinase (which helps prevent blood clots and can actually safely dissolve a blood clot). So there you have my integrative approach to meds. I am sure you will navigate your way to the best solution for your cats. I think it would be worth looking into a vet dentist if you can find one that you like. I may be going that way myself soon if I can keep my head above water with this particular cat.

I really admire Marje’s approach to all things cat! I believe you even brush your kitties’ teeth @Marje and Gracie ? I wish I could have taught mine to tolerate that.

Best wishes to you and yours, Kyle. I haven’t talked to you in a while!
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
@Marje and Gracie thanks for the link to the product Teef that is very interesting. Also good idea about the certified anesthesiologist.
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You’re welcome, Kyle.

I have one cat that is really tartar-prone and I do brush his teeth twice a day (both cars, actually). He typically has to have an annual dental. I’ve looked at the many other additives to water which supposedly prevent tartar but they all have too many chemicals in them. What I like about Teef is it approaches mouth bacteria in a very different way and has only four ingredients which are safe. It says it also works under the gum line but I haven’t been using it long enough and, again, neither of my cats have any gum issues. The other great thing about it is if they don’t drink their water with it in it, you can put it on a gauze pad and rub it on their gums. I have four water bowls and I started with 1/2 scoop in two of the bowls so they still had untreated water until I could determine if they would drink the water with it and they do!! yay!

@Suzanne & Darcy I agree some cats have a totally different mouth environment. Gracie was like Roxy and Liv is, too. Tobey, not, and even brushing twice a day isn’t enough so I was happy to see the Teef. I did speak directly with the company about whether it is safe for kidneys and it is. In fact they have a sodium-free version which eliminates the chlorella. This is the one I bought just because the chlorella targets stomatitis and that’s not an issue with my cats. Insofar as whether it is safe for other health issues, I don’t know but they are a very helpful company. It doesn’t appear to me to have anything that could cause any issues for heart patients but it’s smart to check it out with the company or your vet.

The anesthesiologist we use is also board certified in veterinary pain management. She has moved away from using gabapentin except on occasion as a single dose and there is some literature regarding single dose efficacy but the studies are very small. She has gone back to buprenorphine when it is necessary because it has such a wide dosing range and, quite often, it only takes a tiny bit to get the job done. My intent is not to be critical of those who use gabapentin but to just draw attention to the potential issues with it because it is being so widely used now and I worry it’s not being looked at as closely as it should be. However, if that is the tool you have and it helps, then it’s what you do.

Having said that, if one doesn’t need an urgent pain med like an opioid, CBD is a great option. My holistic vet works two days a week and the other three days are spent on getting into the weeds on new treatments and what each involves, where they are sourced, etc. She started using the hemp oil from CBDDogs and has had great success with it. They have different formulas for dogs and cats and she’s found it to be very effective. She has spoken directly with the founder. There is a very informative video of a presentation the founder gave at a vet conference and I’ll look for the link and put it here in case you are interested. It addresses a wide range of issues including arthritis, allergies, pain, and is an anti-inflammatory.
 
I’ve been giving my cats Xanax on 4th of July to get them through it. That’s my to go when there’s a lot of stress involved like moving or flying with them on a plane. I’m sure others will object, but that’s what works for us :cool:
 
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